Which is Better at PvP, Fistmaster or Swordmaster?

XZakAttacKx - Dreamweaver

Hey everyone, theres a lot of debating about what BM weapons are the best/worst and what-not, expecially about fists. I have been told a number of things but I'm hoping that I can make a good final decision based on what is replied to this message. I've started a new BM and I've already begun the 5str 4dex 1vit formula (because I was confinced that fistmasters are the best at PvP) and I want to be a PvP based player. So I just want to know once and for all before I go to buy skills, which is better at PvP: Fistmaster or Swordmaster? Please back up your opinion with facts and experiences and be honest.

Thanks guys b:victory

Granrey - Sanctuary

well you will never find an answer to this.

If you ask most BM, they mostly say Axes are the guys.

IF you visit other forums they will tell you that "high dex BM are hard to beat"

Since I;m hybrid. I dont care which weapon is better.

Taleon - Heavens Tear

As already pointed out, you are not going to find one correct answer. The situation is going to change depending on who/what you are fighting.

All the dex in the world is not going to help you against a Mage, a Barb using two misty rings is still going to be able to tag you, and so on. It falls down on your play style, what you are comfortable with, and how you learn to adjust to other players. Some will do better with axes, some with swords. But in the end, it is how well you can play your character that is going to give you the results.

That said, the best advice I can give you or anyone is experience. Weather in duals or in PVP, experiment and learn what works for you, you might end up going thru many different builds, but as long as you are learning from each encounter, you will end up finding what works.

My two cents anyways

Nevlik - Heavens Tear

imo before 89 both aren't great choices. sword doesn't have that great of skill choices for pk (weak ranged attack, one strong attack, and strong 2 spark ultimate). due to swords inabilitiy to stun lock a target, they won't usually be able to pull off their dps.

fists, have a similar problem, but have less range, though at lvl 79 you can acquire bolt of tyresus, which helps a bit with stun locks, but until demon spark fists can't effectively break charms.


after 89, it's a matter of gear (assuming both pick demon). if either manages to acquire the beserker TT 90 gold sword, or TT 90 gold fists, they become pretty powerful 1-1. the only real difference is the cost of the sword is much less than the fists (sword doens't require ancient devil souls)

_zandalar_ - Harshlands

"none of the above" should have been included in the poll -.-

as already poitned out neither is good at pvp, but fists just suck at pvp
(duels and cases where ur opponent doesnt have a charm is an exception) sword gets the vote on this one..

Waterboy - Lost City

lol i think its funny i saw some 8x axe bm vs 8x fist bm (pvp in sp and both had same buffs), guess who won?

dragon+genie thunderstorm is deadly b:chuckle

Kristoph - Lost City

Waterboy - Lost City wrote: »

lol i think its funny i saw some 8x axe bm vs 8x fist bm (pvp in sp and both had same buffs), guess who won?

I'd assume the fist BM, would have 2 sparks for Dragon faster than the Axe BM. There's no reason for a Fist built BM not to get Drake Bash/Dragon.

HeavenzSky - Harshlands

i say the sword user, just bc myriad stance is one powerful **** move.

Leolf - Heavens Tear

I was always told fists were the weapons to pick for 1 on 1 pvp o.o

Armegedon - Lost City

I'm a sword bm, but I have to admit that swords are only good for 1v1. Fists are useless if you don't use a spear with them.

Forp - Heavens Tear

spear is useless in its entirety

fist/axe combo is the best warrior in the game

TibOlBitties - Heavens Tear

Like what was said before it depends on how you want to play. I now have 2 BM's not high lvl one is lvl 25 the other is lvl 15. I went with dual axes/hammers and heavy armor on my lvl 25 BM because everyone said that was the best and that the fists were the worst. But a mob dropped some lvl 4 fists and I was using the lvl 5 dual hammers that you get from the supply stash. I was averaging 250 dmg on a normal atk with the hammers and 150 dmg with the fists. Yes per atk it is less dmg but then you have to factor in atk speed and the difference in the weapons lvl. Fists are 1.43 atks/sec and dual hammers are .83 atks/sec. So if a fight lasts 10 seconds you would get 14.3 atks with fists and 8.3 with dual hammers. If you use the dmg numbers from above the fists put out more dmg than the hammers (fists = 14.3 * 150 = 2145, hammers = 8.3 * 250 = 2075). I have noticed that I am lvling faster with the fists than the hammers and am enjoying the fists.

Filet - Heavens Tear

TibOlBitties - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Like what was said before it depends on how you want to play. I now have 2 BM's not high lvl one is lvl 25 the other is lvl 15. I went with dual axes/hammers and heavy armor on my lvl 25 BM because everyone said that was the best and that the fists were the worst. But a mob dropped some lvl 4 fists and I was using the lvl 5 dual hammers that you get from the supply stash. I was averaging 250 dmg on a normal atk with the hammers and 150 dmg with the fists. Yes per atk it is less dmg but then you have to factor in atk speed and the difference in the weapons lvl. Fists are 1.43 atks/sec and dual hammers are .83 atks/sec. So if a fight lasts 10 seconds you would get 14.3 atks with fists and 8.3 with dual hammers. If you use the dmg numbers from above the fists put out more dmg than the hammers (fists = 14.3 * 150 = 2145, hammers = 8.3 * 250 = 2075). I have noticed that I am lvling faster with the fists than the hammers and am enjoying the fists.

Um I honestly dont think level 25 is high enough to base anything off of, you barely have any skills to use. If you're an axe bm you would not be normal attacking during pvp, so comparing normal attack speed is irrelevant to pvp. The only reason you level faster with fists is because you can't aoe grind. Once again, at level 25 you don't have enough skills to properly pvp.

Killeri - Sanctuary

i voted for swords fists just suck

XZakAttacKx - Dreamweaver

Thanks for your help so far guys. From what I'm hearing, I doubt I'll ever truly know the answer, but I have to say so far I'm leaning towards swords. I'll keep looking and asking and I'll post back with what I learn. Keep your posts coming! b:laugh

alkaiza

Why are you guys looking down on us fists? First of all fists class arent made so that u axe bms can look down us, all class are equally made to have its own str and weaknesses, so every class is balanced, its just up to the player how they make their weapon of choice the best there is, so its the player the makes their character strong not the character making the player strong ... so i say if ur new to the game, go axe coz so many peeps are on that path already and so getting stronger is easy for u guys, a lot of help and advice, but if u wana challenging path ... i say go fist, yeah we deal little dmg, our skills arent great, we have low hp. We dont have those normal qualities that an axe have, COZ WE ARENT AXE! we are fistmasters, we arent aoe base like axe, meaning we dont skill spam, we do not have high hp coz we are not tankers!, and we dont have so high dmg coz we dont base our dmg per atk, we base our dmg per SECOND! the quality of fist is to be able to land a continues flow of dmg with speed and accuracy, to be able to avoid MOST NOT ALL physical atks from enemies, to be able to accumulate chi and use heal,stun and spark whenever possible, fists never rely on their atk skills, just support skills coz like i said, we base our dmg on the number of times we land an atk on an enemy per second, so we dont need a very high high dmg,we just need enough dmg to be able to deal higher than a barbs recovery rate, an HP pot or a bm heal (cleric spam is just impossible unless u spark) and make sure every atk lands, dat what makes us fist different from axe, so u say stun lock us? a good fist, or even any good bms know that all bms have stun thats why will of bodhistava was made to be able to counter those irritating stuns, a good fist would just use will, atk a little use spark then use relentless courage and up your atk rate to 2.00 per second(if u have a wrist with -0.05 atk intervals its possible) seconds so dats a total of 20 spark atks in 10 seconds (disregarding the crit a fist can do as well) u probably be dead in 10 seconds or would have like 5 to 10% left oh hp, use heal? go ahead waste ur genie and spark on them thats less trouble for us, u guys would have fewer chance of doing a stun, brandish or dragon or thunderstorm, yeah go ahead use those accuracy modifying pots, if ur gona use those pots in a duel? hell im gonna use those dmg absorbing pots then, lets see how ur very awesome skill spam work this time. Now u say 2 misty rings will shut my mouth up? u think just because u now have +100% accuracy gives u a 100% chance of landing an atk? that ur accuracy is just the same as that of a fist? if u dont realize the 100% is based on ur BASE accuracy, so even if its doubled it still wont make ur accuracy a 100% why? coz unlike axe bms, we have HIGH DEX meaning HIGH EVA and ACCURACY that is already our base accuracy and eva, just because ur accuracy is at the same number as our eva, doesnt mean ur gonna hit us like fists hits u. Scenario(just an example), we now have the same accuracy, but i have eva the same as ur accuracy and ur eva is 1/4 ur accuracy, who will land the most hits? DO the math...I just wana make it clear, dont look down us fist, coz we arent weak, u just havent met us yet, we are cool just like you axe bms are, we are equal so dont treat us like dirt... coz we do good in our deeds, and at the right lvl we can do almost the same as what an axe can do, specially once we get our hands on tt90 armor,giving us good vit and hp we can do good in pve, and our speed,accuracy,eva ,crit rate and fast chi accumulation makes us worthy in pvp, specially on 1 vs 1... u say theory? ive won all my battles against other bm class 5 lvls ahead of me. U say im inexperienced? ive played PW philippines before and ive been playing here for almost a 9 months now(PW phil not included), so guess what my lvl is? All we want is to be treated the same way as other classes are , equally and fairly >.<

And in addition, if u can unlock the capabilities of a fist, u can get through the gateway for BM hybrid, master of all BM weapons, well i added bow to that actually, stay tuned for my upcoming fist and hybrid guide such as:
Sword fist axe combo,
Axe fist pole combo
pole,fist bow combo
and more >.<

b:victory b:victory

Filet - Heavens Tear

alkaiza wrote: »

Why are you guys looking down on us fists? First of all fists class arent made so that u axe bms can look down us, all class are equally made to have its own str and weaknesses, so every class is balanced, its just up to the player how they make their weapon of choice the best there is, so its the player the makes their character strong not the character making the player strong ... so i say if ur new to the game, go axe coz so many peeps are on that path already and so getting stronger is easy for u guys, a lot of help and advice, but if u wana challenging path ... i say go fist, yeah we deal little dmg, our skills arent great, we have low hp. We dont have those normal qualities that an axe have, COZ WE ARENT AXE! we are fistmasters, we arent aoe base like axe, meaning we dont skill spam, we do not have high hp coz we are not tankers!, and we dont have so high dmg coz we dont base our dmg per atk, we base our dmg per SECOND! the quality of fist is to be able to land a continues flow of dmg with speed and accuracy, to be able to avoid MOST NOT ALL physical atks from enemies, to be able to accumulate chi and use heal,stun and spark whenever possible, fists never rely on their atk skills, just support skills coz like i said, we base our dmg on the number of times we land an atk on an enemy per second, so we dont need a very high high dmg,we just need enough dmg to be able to deal higher than a barbs recovery rate, an HP pot or a bm heal (cleric spam is just impossible unless u spark) and make sure every atk lands, dat what makes us fist different from axe, so u say stun lock us? a good fist, or even any good bms know that all bms have stun thats why will of bodhistava was made to be able to counter those irritating stuns, a good fist would just use will, atk a little use spark then use relentless courage and up your atk rate to 2.00 per second(if u have a wrist with -0.05 atk intervals its possible) seconds so dats a total of 20 spark atks in 10 seconds (disregarding the crit a fist can do as well) u probably be dead in 10 seconds or would have like 5 to 10% left oh hp, use heal? go ahead waste ur genie and spark on them thats less trouble for us, u guys would have fewer chance of doing a stun, brandish or dragon or thunderstorm, yeah go ahead use those accuracy modifying pots, if ur gona use those pots in a duel? hell im gonna use those dmg absorbing pots then, lets see how ur very awesome skill spam work this time. Now u say 2 misty rings will shut my mouth up? u think just because u now have +100% accuracy gives u a 100% chance of landing an atk? that ur accuracy is just the same as that of a fist? if u dont realize the 100% is based on ur BASE accuracy, so even if its doubled it still wont make ur accuracy a 100% why? coz unlike axe bms, we have HIGH DEX meaning HIGH EVA and ACCURACY that is already our base accuracy and eva, just because ur accuracy is at the same number as our eva, doesnt mean ur gonna hit us like fists hits u. Scenario(just an example), we now have the same accuracy, but i have eva the same as ur accuracy and ur eva is 1/4 ur accuracy, who will land the most hits? DO the math...I just wana make it clear, dont look down us fist, coz we arent weak, u just havent met us yet, we are cool just like you axe bms are, we are equal so dont treat us like dirt... coz we do good in our deeds, and at the right lvl we can do almost the same as what an axe can do, specially once we get our hands on tt90 armor,giving us good vit and hp we can do good in pve, and our speed,accuracy,eva ,crit rate and fast chi accumulation makes us worthy in pvp, specially on 1 vs 1... u say theory? ive won all my battles against other bm class 5 lvls ahead of me. U say im inexperienced? ive played PW philippines before and ive been playing here for almost a 9 months now(PW phil not included), so guess what my lvl is? All we want is to be treated the same way as other classes are , equally and fairly >.<

And in addition, if u can unlock the capabilities of a fist, u can get through the gateway for BM hybrid, master of all BM weapons, well i added bow to that actually, stay tuned for my upcoming fist and hybrid guide such as:
Sword fist axe combo,
Axe fist pole combo
pole,fist bow combo
and more >.<

b:victory b:victory

The reason people like me who have no experience with fists become discouraged from trying them out is because fist bms, who do have experience, only talk about their insane attack speed. Most players have enough common sense to realize that fast attack speed is useless unless you can hold the opponent there. Fist bms have access to roar and aeolian blade, the latter being unreliable, and the former resulting in a tiny bit over 4 second stun. Outside of this stun period, no ranged class is gonna stay and duke it out with you, greatly reducing the effectiveness of your fast attack speed. You have to remember that pvp is against all classes, it's not just about 2 people standing right next to each other trading hits. When players look for what weapon to choose, they read the posts and advice from other players who have had experience in the matter. If you want more people to go fist bm, then make a more convincing argument, I'm so tired of reading over and over "fist bms attack the fastest, get in the most hits, with our spark you will be dead in 5 seconds." If I see you double spark... why the hell would i trade hits with you? I'll just kite you until it's over. I would love to try fist bm, but just by reading your argument I can already find giant holes in it, and that really discourages me.

alkaiza

Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The reason people like me who have no experience with fists become discouraged from trying them out is because fist bms, who do have experience, only talk about their insane attack speed. Most players have enough common sense to realize that fast attack speed is useless unless you can hold the opponent there. Fist bms have access to roar and aeolian blade, the latter being unreliable, and the former resulting in a tiny bit over 4 second stun. Outside of this stun period, no ranged class is gonna stay and duke it out with you, greatly reducing the effectiveness of your fast attack speed. You have to remember that pvp is against all classes, it's not just about 2 people standing right next to each other trading hits. When players look for what weapon to choose, they read the posts and advice from other players who have had experience in the matter. If you want more people to go fist bm, then make a more convincing argument, I'm so tired of reading over and over "fist bms attack the fastest, get in the most hits, with our spark you will be dead in 5 seconds." If I see you double spark... why the hell would i trade hits with you? I'll just kite you until it's over. I would love to try fist bm, but just by reading your argument I can already find giant holes in it, and that really discourages me.

I was trying to make a point, that fist bms arent weak, and useless in pve or pvp, why would u not trade hits with me if u find us fists weak and useless? like i said every class has its own str and weakness, we arent the strongest and i will also say we are not the weakest, yeah every class has a hole, or weakness, thats why i said its the player that makes the char strong its not the character that makes the player strong, so for me i have different styles of fighting, depending on my enemys class and the player itself, and besides if ur a melee? and my trick did not work on u the first time, ill atk u normally then, the thing about to kill 10 seconds or less is just to show u guys who look down us, that we fist have capabilities and impressive stuff to show off, its not everytime i do that i get to kill another bm in less than 15 secs, it doesnt work everytime , gears and armors are also considered lvl of ur enemy, his/her build and stuff like that, im just saying a fist has a possibility to do that but it doesnt mean everytime i do it is gonna be a 100% sure kill, u axe bms have something to show off on ur stun locks,skill spams, misty rings what makes u think we fist dont have any? SEe? And like i said if ur new to the game go axe, but if u want challenge go fist.. fist build is complicated and most people mess it up having to put too high dex or too little or too much skills... Im not trying to make every axe change into fist, im just want others to see that fist isnt what u think we are, we arent weak... and we just u guys to give us a proper credit and respect. Give us a break man, a kiter cant always kite forever when the one chasing him is faster than he is cloudsprint,will and holy path FTW! He has to stop and atk right?what makes u think we fist cant kill u without sparks? Kiting is epic though ive seen a few who could actually pull it off against me, since i kite against barbs lol slow and bow ftw! BM Hybrid rocks! so if u cant decide what to choose hell get everything, start with the one u like,

unoxx

I agree with your point, I'm tired of hearing axes are so good. They are not better, just EASIER. Thats why more peaple are good with them. Therefore everyone thinks axes are better. Sounds stupid eh? Thruth does most of the time.

Granrey - Sanctuary

unoxx wrote: »

I agree with your point, I'm tired of hearing axes are so good. They are not better, just EASIER. Thats why more peaple are good with them. Therefore everyone thinks axes are better. Sounds stupid eh? Thruth does most of the time.

its a bit more complicated than that. The above poster mentioned the benefits of Fists. However, his statements are mostly correct PVE wise while his detractor was basicaly talking PVP wise.

I have not found a single case in which axes are superior than fists PVE wise, exept while facing several opponents.

Again an smart BM would start AOE with cyclone hill and then switch to axes aoe.

At the same time a good fist user would use Drake bash when stunning is needed.

PVP wise, I suspect axes are better but the lack of accuracy is an issue. At the same time I suggest to read the other forums and see which BM the other races fear most. Still, I would say Axes is in better shape for PVP.

alkaiza

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

its a bit more complicated than that. The above poster mentioned the benefits of Fists. However, his statements are mostly correct PVE wise while his detractor was basicaly talking PVP wise.

I have not found a single case in which axes are superior than fists PVE wise, exept while facing several opponents.

Again an smart BM would start AOE with cyclone hill and then switch to axes aoe.

At the same time a good fist user would use Drake bash when stunning is needed.

PVP wise, I suspect axes are better but the lack of accuracy is an issue. At the same time I suggest to read the other forums and see which BM the other races fear most. Still, I would say Axes is in better shape for PVP.

fist is only good in pve when it comes soloing quests, killing mobs 1 by 1, but if im going pve why should i go fist? id rather go axe where i can kill mobs all at the same time, axe dont miss a lot on pve, dat means the big hole they have in pvp does not exist in pve meaning u would reap the awesome skill spamming of axes against mobs why would u go fist and kill mobs 1 by 1 if u can kill them all at the same time with axe? Axe have better hp than fist meaning they are third tankers after barbs and veno herc, they have better aoes and faster cool down so if ur going pve fist is not the best but im not saying fist sucks at pve like i said fist at the right lvl fist can do almost the same as what an axe can do in pve (opening the gate way to hybrid bm) so fist only become really good in pve in later game such as late lvl 75s and up, and my points in my post arent pve wise. they were mostly pvp, if u read it right i was showing off against an axe, how a fist CAN(a possibilty) outmatch an axe during 1 on 1, but pvp is not only duel, theres pk and TW, yes axe can go on and head to battle and massively kill them all, epic isnt it unfortunately again, fist arent axe fist are best in killing enemies 1 on 1, meaning u dont jump straight into a massive pk fest u find away to take one without taking the attention of others, fist are like assassins use ur head when ur in a middle of a pk fest u dont jump in and face all five peeps altogther u take attract them by attacking from afar while ur team mates are fighting them or they are busy killing each other(sigh im saving this for my hybrid guide) how do u do it u ask? use bow, dex are capable of using high lvl bows in my current lvl i can use bows 1 grade below me, dat way u have the attention of 1, without signaling the others(before u say it, bows wont kill ur enemy, its for luring,for dmging kiters,and melee runners and of cors u dont target a range enemy dat would just be plain stupid) kite them till u are out of range from any hostile archers or mages and kill him, yeah its hard to pull off, thats why i said if u want a challenging path go fist >.<

And 2nd, most axe dont have fists, coz they think we are weak( isnt that right?) so they dont spend any spirits on fist skills,(maybe a few on fistmastery or the shadowless kick, but cyclone heel?) why would u need to start aoe with cyclone heel? speed buff? speed buff doesnt work on skills meaning u dont get faster in casting skills, nor do their cool downs get faster it only affects normal attacks, but yeah fist such as i, use cylcone heel as part of my aoe when i use axe, but i dont start with it, its either in between cool downs of skills or the last one to normally hit the mob with the cyclone heels speed buff.. coz axe have lots of skills to master and genies to lvl so wasting spirit on something u wont use everytime is really a waste >.< ANd yeah we fist do use drake bash on every occasion, depending on the enemy's class and the player itself that is why im a hybrid i try to get better in what i do, (but still im far away u should see how i lose miserably in a duel lol)

and 3rd i have read the other forums(well not all but mostly) and i would give 5 out of 5stars to most of them, they give a really good guide for newbie bms, all that i dont like is dat when it comes to fist we arent given the proper guide(that is why im making one myself) well it probably be because the fist build is totally different from other bm builds and dat not much peeps have gone through this path, and or most of the peeps who have gone through this path failed >.< so mostly likely due to the fact that on most guides we are the most avoided made most old newbies who are now pros think that fist sucks, yeah its their own opinion and i have no power to make them change that just coz i say so, i just want all who makes guide to be flexible and equal when it comes to citing out points for classes coz u guys who makes guide are pros and peeps listen to u so what u say in ur guides can be destructive to others, so when u plan on making a guide u should think first of what u say, u might not realize when u say fist sucks in a guide but ur condemning us already(i havent found one who actually said it on a guide but rephrase some and it will lead to that) so guide makers have a little respect on us will ya? we all do came from the same class the Blademaster so we should not discriminate each other in order to show other class that we can BMs are a class be reckoned with heheheb:victoryb:victory

Anders - Lost City

Wizards?
Why would you ask such a silly question
Wizards.

Granrey - Sanctuary

alkaiza wrote: »

fist is only good in pve when it comes soloing quests, killing mobs 1 by 1, but if im going pve why should i go fist? id rather go axe where i can kill mobs all at the same time, axe dont miss a lot on pve, dat means the big hole they have in pvp does not exist in pve meaning u would reap the awesome skill spamming of axes against mobs why would u go fist and kill mobs 1 by 1 if u can kill them all at the same time with axe? Axe have better hp than fist meaning they are third tankers after barbs and veno herc, they have better aoes and faster cool down so if ur going pve fist is not the best but im not saying fist sucks at pve like i said fist at the right lvl fist can do almost the same as what an axe can do in pve (opening the gate way to hybrid bm) so fist only become really good in pve in later game such as late lvl 75s and up, and my points in my post arent pve wise. they were mostly pvp, if u read it right i was showing off against an axe, how a fist CAN(a possibilty) outmatch an axe during 1 on 1, but pvp is not only duel, theres pk and TW, yes axe can go on and head to battle and massively kill them all, epic isnt it unfortunately again, fist arent axe fist are best in killing enemies 1 on 1, meaning u dont jump straight into a massive pk fest u find away to take one without taking the attention of others, fist are like assassins use ur head when ur in a middle of a pk fest u dont jump in and face all five peeps altogther u take attract them by attacking from afar while ur team mates are fighting them or they are busy killing each other(sigh im saving this for my hybrid guide) how do u do it u ask? use bow, dex are capable of using high lvl bows in my current lvl i can use bows 1 grade below me, dat way u have the attention of 1, without signaling the others(before u say it, bows wont kill ur enemy, its for luring,for dmging kiters,and melee runners and of cors u dont target a range enemy dat would just be plain stupid) kite them till u are out of range from any hostile archers or mages and kill him, yeah its hard to pull off, thats why i said if u want a challenging path go fist >.<

And 2nd, most axe dont have fists, coz they think we are weak( isnt that right?) so they dont spend any spirits on fist skills,(maybe a few on fistmastery or the shadowless kick, but cyclone heel?) why would u need to start aoe with cyclone heel? speed buff? speed buff doesnt work on skills meaning u dont get faster in casting skills, nor do their cool downs get faster it only affects normal attacks, but yeah fist such as i, use cylcone heel as part of my aoe when i use axe, but i dont start with it, its either in between cool downs of skills or the last one to normally hit the mob with the cyclone heels speed buff.. coz axe have lots of skills to master and genies to lvl so wasting spirit on something u wont use everytime is really a waste >.< ANd yeah we fist do use drake bash on every occasion, depending on the enemy's class and the player itself that is why im a hybrid i try to get better in what i do, (but still im far away u should see how i lose miserably in a duel lol)

and 3rd i have read the other forums(well not all but mostly) and i would give 5 out of 5stars to most of them, they give a really good guide for newbie bms, all that i dont like is dat when it comes to fist we arent given the proper guide(that is why im making one myself) well it probably be because the fist build is totally different from other bm builds and dat not much peeps have gone through this path, and or most of the peeps who have gone through this path failed >.< so mostly likely due to the fact that on most guides we are the most avoided made most old newbies who are now pros think that fist sucks, yeah its their own opinion and i have no power to make them change that just coz i say so, i just want all who makes guide to be flexible and equal when it comes to citing out points for classes coz u guys who makes guide are pros and peeps listen to u so what u say in ur guides can be destructive to others, so when u plan on making a guide u should think first of what u say, u might not realize when u say fist sucks in a guide but ur condemning us already(i havent found one who actually said it on a guide but rephrase some and it will lead to that) so guide makers have a little respect on us will ya? we all do came from the same class the Blademaster so we should not discriminate each other in order to show other class that we can BMs are a class be reckoned with heheheb:victoryb:victory

why killing mobs 1 by 1 in PVE? the cost
I have not done a formula yet but fists kill mobs very cheap as you can create spadks easier than axes. then you use you spark for more normal attacks.

When I grind with my axes, I get more exps per minute compared to my fists but it comes to a cost of higher HP and mp use, as well as a lot of repairs.

I think if charms were cheaper, axes would be my choice hands down.

another thing for fists being cost efficient. is that any investment you do to upgrade your fists is most likely way better than doing it on axes.

for instance you add a shard that add 50 phy damage. well on fists the effect per second would be multiply be 1.43x50=71.50 on axes the number is way less.

the reason for cyclone hill at beggining? when I;m aoeing I use all my aoe skills. in a perfect situation I would start with myriad of sword stance (2 sparks) to reduce the damage the mobs do on me. then cyclone. Cyclone, since the cooldown of this skill is too long, you will run all your other axes AOE plus the common ones for everyweapon and this skill will still be in cooldown.


Saying that, I thought the speed effect of cyclone would still work on with the axes ones.

another comment, I usually use a lower level axes since I have low str. For instance I started using my TT70 axes at 79. but again at 79, the cost per mob was too high. So, I might say, that for me to make a proper comparizon cost wise I need to use a proper axes built.

alkaiza

Anders - Lost City wrote: »

Wizards?
Why would you ask such a silly question
Wizards.

what question?????

alkaiza

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

why killing mobs 1 by 1 in PVE? the cost
I have not done a formula yet but fists kill mobs very cheap as you can create spadks easier than axes. then you use you spark for more normal attacks.

When I grind with my axes, I get more exps per minute compared to my fists but it comes to a cost of higher HP and mp use, as well as a lot of repairs.

I think if charms were cheaper, axes would be my choice hands down.

Lmao repairs? fist is not cost efficient axe can kill groups of mobs and use only a few skills to kill them all unlike fists who needs to kill every mobs by normal hits meaning fist needs to deal a lot of hits first to kill a single mob and dats a lot of weapon usage isnt it? not even with spark makes u save up coins coz it doesnt change the fact that u are only attacking 1 mob contrast to an axe who can kill all at the same time, so pve fist? a cost efficient one? dats a nono

so if ur new and wants an easy pve path go axe, they are better at that

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

another thing for fists being cost efficient. is that any investment you do to upgrade your fists is most likely way better than doing it on axes.

for instance you add a shard that add 50 phy damage. well on fists the effect per second would be multiply be 1.43x50=71.50 on axes the number is way less.

lmao, investing in a fest is never money wise, first of all an axe on normal gears are already good so u dont have to refine their weapons or invest on its gears every 10 lvls coz what it normally have is enough to do good in pve or pvp that is why axe are easy build the only thing that an axe needs to worry about is the misty ring which cost a lot but aside from that refining to the max is not must for axe(not until lvl90+) unlike fist who freatly depends on their gears, this is the biggest draw back of a fist they are hard to manage, coz every equip they have ,specially weapons has to be refined, gems must be socketed in it in order to make them formidable in battle, a fist build is too complicated that at the early stages specially below 70 fist are unable to equip heavy armors at the right lvl, we depend on stat modifying ornaments in order for us to reach the right requirement for our gears. AN undressed fist can never be crowned aggro stealer so up our fists refinement to a minimum of +5 in order to deal decent dmg and make up for the low str we have compared to axes so being a fist isnt really money wise.... thats waht makes fist good, when u dress it right fist is a really cool class, so if ur an easy goer kind of person fist is not the right path for u b:victoryb:victory

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

the reason for cyclone hill at beggining? when I;m aoeing I use all my aoe skills. in a perfect situation I would start with myriad of sword stance (2 sparks) to reduce the damage the mobs do on me. then cyclone. Cyclone, since the cooldown of this skill is too long, you will run all your other axes AOE plus the common ones for everyweapon and this skill will still be in cooldown.


Saying that, I thought the speed effect of cyclone would still work on with the axes ones.

so are u saying u would waste 2.298.400 of spirit and 3.082.000 coins? (these are total spirit an coin value from lvl 1 to 10) on a cyclone heel?

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

another comment, I usually use a lower level axes since I have low str. For instance I started using my TT70 axes at 79. but again at 79, the cost per mob was too high. So, I might say, that for me to make a proper comparizon cost wise I need to use a proper axes built.

same here, im still stuck on lvl 70 axes, an axe having high dex rocks lol hybrid FTW!

Granrey - Sanctuary

I dont think investing coins/spirits on usefull skills is a bad investment. On the opposite I think is the best investment you do in game as skills remain with you until the end. Very different from gear wich you have to change as you go.

my ultimate goal is to have my usefull skills to level 10. I currently have most of them between 7 to 10.

my toon can consistantly AOE non stop since I have all AOE from sword, fists, axes and low level ones.

Many skills work fine to level 1 like shadowless kick, drake bash, ect. and many others are useless so I ignore those.


Regarding my grinding, I;m telling the truth based on my toon. I get more coins per mob with my fists but I get more exps per minute with my axes.

Again, if charms where cheaper, I would grind with my axes at all times.

My perfect 1v1 grinding would be with slow mobs. I would start pulling them and hitting them with my bow (TT60 unicorn, I can use this thanks to my high dex). when the mob gets to me, I have already taken around 10% of his HP and I have done some chi too.

As soon he is close to me I use my marro physical, I switch to my fists and hit him until he is done. As I generate a lot of chi. I use sparks too.

I only use MP to replenish my HP with diamond sutra.

I have not found a more efficient way (cost wise) of killing mobs.

Again I repeat, I get more exps per minute with my axes but the drops/costs dont make sense coin wise with my toon.

Lyndura - Lost City

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have not found a more efficient way (cost wise) of killing mobs.

The problem is that you just have experience using Fists, while you don't know what is using a real Axe build and grinding that way.

Making around 400k+ per hour with 40~50k repair costs, getting a lot more experience. That is how level 8x looks when AoE grinding.

Granrey - Sanctuary

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

The problem is that you just have experience using Fists, while you don't know what is using a real Axe build and grinding that way.

Making around 400k+ per hour with 40~50k repair costs, getting a lot more experience. That is how level 8x looks when AoE grinding.

that could very likely be true as I have mentioned above.

alkaiza

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

I dont think investing coins/spirits on usefull skills is a bad investment. On the opposite I think is the best investment you do in game as skills remain with you until the end. Very different from gear wich you have to change as you go.

That just clearly shows that going fist is not cost efficient coz like i said if u want ur fist to be good u must refine, and less on skills (axes go with skills, skill cost= stays with u till the end, fists= gear dependant, changes every 10 lvls and dat is never a money wise if u ask me

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

my ultimate goal is to have my usefull skills to level 10. I currently have most of them between 7 to 10.

my toon can consistantly AOE non stop since I have all AOE from sword, fists, axes and low level ones.

Many skills work fine to level 1 like shadowless kick, drake bash, ect. and many others are useless so I ignore those.


Regarding my grinding, I;m telling the truth based on my toon. I get more coins per mob with my fists but I get more exps per minute with my axes.

Again, if charms where cheaper, I would grind with my axes at all times.

My perfect 1v1 grinding would be with slow mobs. I would start pulling them and hitting them with my bow (TT60 unicorn, I can use this thanks to my high dex). when the mob gets to me, I have already taken around 10% of his HP and I have done some chi too.

As soon he is close to me I use my marro physical, I switch to my fists and hit him until he is done. As I generate a lot of chi. I use sparks too.

I only use MP to replenish my HP with diamond sutra.

I have not found a more efficient way (cost wise) of killing mobs.

Again I repeat, I get more exps per minute with my axes but the drops/costs dont make sense coin wise with my toon.

well if ur getting hybrid like me, yeah cyclone heel is worth getting but if ur all axe and disregards fist (and hates them) of cors its a waste for there are other things an axe have to invest upon like genies for spirit and coins for misty rings

and just to correct unicorn is tt70, and i guess we have the same dex coz at ur lvl i had the same bow as well and yup the range then melee style is the basic for bm luring and a thing to learn for pole bow fist combo against slow peeps like barbs And i think u would wana rechange ur style of grinding, coz grinding 1 mob at a time >.< ......... go aerial mobs if u wana kill 1 on 1 so u get exp bonuses ... then again our bow wont be that effective unless the aerial mob runs every time its at critical health

and as for ur grinding, i dont know how u get coins a lot better than axe since grinding with fist would take hours just to match up an axe way of getting coins and exp in a little amount of time ( as to what i said that fist gets to kill 1 by 1 and axe 5 to 10 mobs at a time meaning more drops and less dmg on ur weapons, , my experience as well as a fister and hybrid

and i never disagreed that axe can get more exp per minute than fist that is why i said when ur going pve go with axe >.<

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

Making around 400k+ per hour with 40~50k repair costs, getting a lot more experience. That is how level 8x looks when AoE grinding.

to back up what i have previously said



then again every class would benefit if charms are to become cheap again whether u be axe or fist

so when it comes to grinding fist is not the best but then again it doesnt mean that we fist are weak in anyways