Late Game + Sage/Demon

Lennson - Heavens Tear

Why is it that you would only buff yourself when the buff wares off?

If you check the math Demo Spirits Gift gave a bigger power boost than spark did.

Regarding the spark itself I put it in there for effect since Demon Spirits Gift has the ability to stack with it. I am well aware that the two spark versions are very balanced in their benefits.

As for skill balance though please show me a sage skill that matches Demon's Spirits Gift.
(and please don't say sage magic shell... the channeling bonus doesn't come close)

Forp - Heavens Tear

demon spirit's gift doesn't stack with a spark. they both give the "intuition" icon.

Inias - Heavens Tear

well i went demon you wanna know why?

go and look at

demon plume shot (yes sage plume shot is better at 1 shotting ppl) FASTER
demon cyclone : good against barbs and BM MORE DMG
wield thunder DEBUFF AGAINST METAL
omfg look at stream of rejunevation b:dirty +100% PHYS DEF
wellspring surge + CHI
these are the main things

ButtHurt - Lost City

GodlyHealz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wow forp is right, you are stupid. You bought Cyclone and gave it away? WTF are you doing man... if u wanna sound smarter than Forp, at least try and make since. Just go away you butthurt panda

didnt you read
i bought it for only 5k gg

Shano - Lost City

Inias - Heavens Tear wrote: »

well i went demon you wanna know why?

go and look at

demon plume shot (yes sage plume shot is better at 1 shotting ppl) FASTER
demon cyclone : good against barbs and BM MORE DMG
wield thunder DEBUFF AGAINST METAL
omfg look at stream of rejunevation b:dirty +100% PHYS DEF
wellspring surge + CHI
these are the main things

hehe you forget about spirit gift and metal mastery :P

Aeneas - Harshlands

There's a lot of discussion about skills people aren't likely to ever see.


Practically speaking, you can count on these Heaven/Hell skills and should plan for them

From FB89
Plumeshot
Blessing of the Purehearted
Whirlwind

From cube
Wield Thunder
Tempest
Chromatic Seal
something else, I forget.

The cube skills are 99 skills, except Chromatic Seal (which is 92) so unless you plan to get to 99 they're also irrelevant. Blessing of the Purehearted.....you'd have to pay me to learn that.

Basically for over 90% of the people, Heaven vs Hell comes down to Plumeshot/Whirlwind and the spark eruption. That's the honest truth.

For clerics, it's pretty even. Hell Whirlwind does extra damage, Heaven Plumeshot does extra damage. The Heaven Whirlwind bonus is often irrelevant, the Hell Plumeshot bonus is nice, but marginal. Both Heaven and Hell Clerics will learn both skills for the lvl11 bonus anyways.


I went Heaven because
1) Easier time getting Heaven skill books since so many go Hell. I was the 2nd Heaven cleric on the server, the first that actually really plays (Muse doesn't play so much anymore). Not coincidentally I have both Heaven skills, pretty sure i'm the first to get both lvl11 Plumeshot and Cyclone (Ultimate has Hell Cyclone, not sure anyone else has anything else yet).

2) Heaven Spark Eruption is more useful in TW (Heaven Spark to clear the inevitable nix bleed and then damage reduction for 15 seconds while my Plume Shell recharges). Also I like the free chi.


If I were going to 99 I'd be more inclined towards Hell. Hell Cyclone and Hell Wield Thunder is a great combo. But I don't plan on getting there.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Lennson - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I was planning on going sage but there is one skill that demon has that seems ridiculously powerful:

(from ecatomb)

Demon Spirit's Gift
Demon version grants an additional 150% to magic attack for the first 10 seconds.

Note that it says magic attack where as the original skill only increases weapon magic attack

So I would like to know if this means that when you're level 100 with your ~10k base line magic attack when buffed if you could,
-Demon Spirit's Gift -> +150% magic attack
-Demon spark -> +700% extra magical attack from weapons
-(lets say) Demon cyclon (since it's fast)

So...
magic attack of 10k goes to ~23k because of spark (since it computes using wep dmg)
~23k x2.5 = 57.5k because of Spirit's Gift(?)
Cyclone: Raw Damage ~60k(?)

Now obviously the damage is reduced a lot due to resists and if you're hitting a person the pvp reduction but note that the Spirits Gift makes this shot more powerful than a critical shot without it, and if this crits...

For those people that are not planning on killing... the multiplier would increase your heals in the same maner as its increase is to magic attack.

Note this out shines any increases to healing that Sage has to offer.

So please tell me how I'm wrong, I want to go sage, but I wont if I am right...

1) Note, that will all this said, the normal and current spirit gift will have additional magic attack bonus for the first 10 seconds.
Now, question is, have you actually used this 10sec in the past? Near or enough for it to become a habit to cast this spell just for this 10 sec bonus before you attack.

If you have not, then chances are that you demon skill 10sec are going to be forgotten, and this spell cast as JUST a 30min buff.

2)Alot of demon skills seem to be adjustable by gear if you decide to go sage. Channeling speed? Its good for peeps who dont have a set of channeling gear.

3)Could care less about chi saving and MP. You are overabundant in chi most of the time after 90s. MP shouldnt even be an issue.

4)Cooldown time on Plumeshot, razor feathers, etc. Unless your working with a lag monster of a PC, these are fast cooldowns to start off with anyway =/

5)Metal Debuffs..
Example wield thunder. Demon-reduces enemy's Metal resistance 30% for 10 seconds!
Sage version always increases Metal magic damage by 25% (sage is 24/7 permanent baby)
Now aside from plumeshot, cleric is magic attacks. Unless your gonna use wield thunder to assist for OTHER melee to try attack during that small 10sec time frame, where is the other worth?

Most targets especially in PvP are not going to stand around like a tree for you to hit. With each attack you dish out, they either RUN, or STUN most of the time and clerics also get ganged up on. 90% of the time you can kiss goodbye to the 10sec bonuses.

Most of the things considered 'uber' TO consider, you will probably forget to use after you get the skill.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

It's been possible to get the 92 skills since the game started. It has drops for skill books in Delta that allow for a randomly chosen one based off of class and celestial choice. So you will get a demon cleric skill, just not sure which. But doing it instead of cube will get you a good amount of them, just takes time.

Shano - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

1) Note, that will all this said, the normal and current spirit gift will have additional magic attack bonus for the first 10 seconds.
Now, question is, have you actually used this 10sec in the past? Near or enough for it to become a habit to cast this spell just for this 10 sec bonus before you attack.

If you have not, then chances are that you demon skill 10sec are going to be forgotten, and this spell cast as JUST a 30min buff.

2)Alot of demon skills seem to be adjustable by gear if you decide to go sage. Channeling speed? Its good for peeps who dont have a set of channeling gear.

3)Could care less about chi saving and MP. You are overabundant in chi most of the time after 90s. MP shouldnt even be an issue.

4)Cooldown time on Plumeshot, razor feathers, etc. Unless your working with a lag monster of a PC, these are fast cooldowns to start off with anyway =/

5)Metal Debuffs..
Example wield thunder. Demon-reduces enemy's Metal resistance 30% for 10 seconds!
Sage version always increases Metal magic damage by 25% (sage is 24/7 permanent baby)
Now aside from plumeshot, cleric is magic attacks. Unless your gonna use wield thunder to assist for OTHER melee to try attack during that small 10sec time frame, where is the other worth?

Most targets especially in PvP are not going to stand around like a tree for you to hit. With each attack you dish out, they either RUN, or STUN most of the time and clerics also get ganged up on. 90% of the time you can kiss goodbye to the 10sec bonuses.

Most of the things considered 'uber' TO consider, you will probably forget to use after you get the skill.

well then guess all these discussion is just about opinion ^^
whether you go sage or demon is up to you
both have their own benefit
but for sure that sage is give more support and demon is more for attack

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Shano - Lost City wrote: »

well then guess all these discussion is just about opinion ^^
whether you go sage or demon is up to you
both have their own benefit
but for sure that sage is give more support and demon is more for attack

I guess demon is good only if you actually have time to utilize those few seconds they give you.

Forp - Heavens Tear

why is it that these newbs generalize demon as attack and sage as support(or defense, for other classes)? i think in only 3 classes this aplies: warrior, mage, and archer.

i've also changed my mind about the skills:



demon spark = sage spark. they're equal in usefulness. if you argue that 1 is superior for this class, uninstall pw.


-
sage passive > demon passive. simple as that. if you don't know why yet, go die.


-
sage plume shot deals more damage. plumeshot, itself, is a very weak and mediocre skill. even vs squishy opponents it's fairly useless. saying that making it cast faster is better than doing more damage in 1 hit is ridiculous. there's no physical passive for clerics, demon plume shot is still weak.

-
demon cyclone is by far much superior to that of sage. however, when a sage aquires their passive, the additional damage is on par to that of demon(pve 1276 vs 845; pvp 255 vs 169).

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demon wield thunder is obviously better. this skill seems to be why everybody even goes demon. i honestly don't care either way. after you use it, you have a chance to get off a cyclone and, maybe, a thunderball. that being said, the debuff is essitentially useless. the effect is after wield thunder hits, so it doesn't feel the effect.

however, level 11 wield thunder gives 25~ chi naturally(i don't know the real number), but sage has a 50% chance to add 30 more. 55~ chi in 1 hit.

both do the same damage, demon lets your next cyclone do a bit more damage. whatever.

-
sage plume shell > demon. shut up, i'm right, you're wrong. don't argue it.


-
sage razor feathers is better than demon for 2 reasons:

1. while you're using this skill to aoe grind, you'll have healed twice and purified in the time it takes sage to cooldown.

2. in pvp, you have 2 chances to use it. a finisher on a squishy class after their hp is low, or just throwing it randomly into a pile up. either way, a lower cooldown isn't going to effect this.


-
sage thunderball > demon. again, if you have to ask why, shut up. it's pretty damn obvious.

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sage elemental/physical debuff/sleep/paralyze is better than demon. you shouldn't even have to know why, but for the slow folk:

IF YOU USE THEM WHEN YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO BE HIT YOU WILL PURIFY YOURSELF. THE SHORTER DURATION/NO EFFECT ON YOURSELF DOESN'T MEAN ****.


-
demon tempest > sage. a chance to freeze is always superior. even if saving 1 spark is a high chance, stopping them is more important.


-
sage blessing of the purehearted > demon. you'll most likely never use it, but still, sage > demon.


-
demon ironheart blessing WOULD BE superior if the mp regen effect stacked. however, it doesn't. too bad. sage > demon.


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sage wellspring surge > demon. getting 2 more chi than you use to as demon IS NOT SUPERIOR TO CASTING THIS INSTANT HEAL EVEN FASTER. ****ing ****.


-
revive doesn't ****ing matter. both revive 100%, who cares how you do it.


-
demon purify > sage. duh.


-
demon chromatic heal > sage.


-
demon stream of rejuvenation > sage.


-
single buffs: who the **** cares.

Shano - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guess demon is good only if you actually have time to utilize those few seconds they give you.

you can use combo such as
sleep-->debuff-->hell spirit gift-->spark--->thunder--->cyclone ..

RedsRose - Lost City

Shano - Lost City wrote: »

you can use combo such as
sleep-->debuff-->hell spirit gift-->spark--->thunder--->cyclone ..

How? The buffs do not stack and in that case would make no sense nor any difference. Unless you use this combo unbuffed and then are buffing yourself in the middle of battle.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Shano - Lost City wrote: »

you can use combo such as
sleep-->debuff-->hell spirit gift-->spark--->thunder--->cyclone ..

By the time you cast your thunder halfway your 10sec is up already.

Forp - Heavens Tear

do you people read? demon spirit gift's effect doesn't stack with sparks.

ButtHurt - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

By the time you cast your thunder halfway your 10sec is up already.

not if you using hell spark

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

do you people read? demon spirit gift's effect doesn't stack with sparks.

Has this actually been tested though? SG itself normally has the name intuition but still stacks with spark. Unless it's been tested by someone who has used the skill, no real way to know. If someone has, would definitely change things a bit for people.

Zuyue - Sanctuary

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why is it that these newbs generalize demon as attack and sage as support(or defense, for other classes)? i think in only 3 classes this aplies: warrior, mage, and archer.

i've also changed my mind about the skills:



demon spark = sage spark. they're equal in usefulness. if you argue that 1 is superior for this class, uninstall pw.

Eww demon spark faster channel on plum shoot makes u shoot so fast the game glitches shoots and dosent show some as u channel so fast that combination will eat a robe faster then nix bleed.Sage spark 25% less dmg eww i better uninstall PW cause 1 is pretty superior to the other in attack as u like to figure both paths are pretty equal.Oh and the fact u get more attacks off in the 12 seconds after u channel your spark then u would with sage spark also = more dmg 25% dmg reduction can go in the TRASH!

Forp - Heavens Tear

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Has this actually been tested though? SG itself normally has the name intuition but still stacks with spark. Unless it's been tested by someone who has used the skill, no real way to know. If someone has, would definitely change things a bit for people.

honestly, i can't say for sure. i don't have it nor will i ever, but i know people with it. it gives the "intuition" icon, which is the same given by a spark. same icon buffs don't stack.

Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eww demon spark faster channel on plum shoot makes u shoot so fast the game glitches shoots and dosent show some as u channel so fast that combination will eat a robe faster then nix bleed.Sage spark 25% less dmg eww i better uninstall PW cause 1 is pretty superior to the other in attack as u like to figure both paths are pretty equal.Oh and the fact u get more attacks off in the 12 seconds after u channel your spark then u would with sage spark also = more dmg 25% dmg reduction can go in the TRASH!

jesus christ, how did you make it past level 3?

RamArch - Lost City

Waw, its so hard now lol but it seems every 1 says SAGE!!

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

ButtHurt - Lost City wrote: »

not if you using hell spark

If you have to use like 5 skills and 3 whole sparks to utilize this 10sec of demon spirit, its not efficient enough to be considered one of the PROs in choosing demon.

Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eww demon spark faster channel on plum shoot makes u shoot so fast the game glitches shoots and dosent show some as u channel so fast that combination will eat a robe faster then nix bleed.Sage spark 25% less dmg eww i better uninstall PW cause 1 is pretty superior to the other in attack as u like to figure both paths are pretty equal.Oh and the fact u get more attacks off in the 12 seconds after u channel your spark then u would with sage spark also = more dmg 25% dmg reduction can go in the TRASH!

Go to school, learn some grammar before you indulge yourself in the game world. Make use of commas, periods, and other grammatical tweeks. I shouldnt have to reread your post 4 times, furrow my brows, and reread it a 5th time to try understand what the hell you are saying.. Im surprised Forp even understood.

Forp - Heavens Tear

i'm pro at engrish b:victory

Aeneas - Harshlands

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

etc

Why is the level 83 writing so much on Sage/Demon skills?

Aeneas - Harshlands

Shano - Lost City wrote: »

you can use combo such as
sleep-->debuff-->hell spirit gift-->spark--->thunder--->cyclone ..

Or in a support role such as throwing it on a Mage right after they Undine strike an opponent. Hell Spirits Gift would have it's uses, yes.

Aeneas - Harshlands

Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sage spark 25% less dmg eww

It's nothing to laugh at. You use nix's as an example so i'll offer one too.

Let the nix come in, put a bleed on you, Heaven Spark to clear the bleed, tank the nix with 25% damage reduction while you 1 - 3 shot the veno (with Heaven Plume Shot btw).

Specifically though I find the damage reduction most useful in TW healing catas.

Forp - Heavens Tear

Aeneas - Harshlands wrote: »

Why is the level 83 writing so much on Sage/Demon skills?

because unlike some people, i spent time looking into my classes future. i didn't plan on getting there completely clueless. b:bye

SATII - Lost City

Demon is good if you plan to get to 99 and all the books for the good skills. Sage is just better if 89 is the highest you'll get and you only plan to get the easy-to-get books.

Sorbik - Lost City

Important skills:
The easily attainable books:
Heaven plume shot == Hell plume shot
Heaven Cyclone < Hell Cyclone
Heaven Chi > Hell Chi
Heaven Spark == Hell Spark
Heaven Wield Thunder < Hell Wield thunder (Although i personally prefer heaven)
Heaven Tempest < Hell Tempest
Heaven Stream of Rejuv < Hell Stream of Rejuv

Hard books to get:
Heaven Purify > Hell Purify (Chi cost is negated by chi skill)
Heaven wellspring > Hell wellspring
Heaven Ironheart > Hell Ironheart
Heaven Pdef buff > Hell Pdef buff
Heaven Mdef buff > Hell Mdef buff


The rest of the skills either are useless, or don't matter between hell and heaven, they are equally as good.


Considering the easy to attain books only, hell seems better. But for me, the chi skill alone had me sold. People say EPs aren't dependant on chi, and that we can build some easily, but in the middle of battles, when you are plume shelling every 30 seconds, sealing, and sleeping, purifying and using guardian light, you burn through quite a bit.

Also, the attack skills generally favour towards hell while the support skills toward heaven.

Demons spirits gift is terrible. It does not stack with spark. It is like giving yourself a single spark. If you want spike DD you will triple spark or tempest.

Isaphet - Heavens Tear

triple spark or tempest?

How about spirits gift a tempest?

The good part about Demon Spirits Gift is in its versatility.

Talshina - Dreamweaver

The "150% to magic attack" given by the Demon version of Spirit's Gift seems strong, but it's only for the first ten seconds of a buff that lasts thirty minutes.
I'll admit I'm still low level and inexperienced, but why would I want to get my buff timers out of synchronization just for a ten second boost?