Private servers don't matter?

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

One game i played,the pvp was the be all and end all of the game,there was no reason to play otherwise and the pvp system was extremely addictive,though the devs introduced cash shop items and patches that completely ruined and unbalanced the pvp,destroying years of work some people had put into their toons and endgame gears...

Basically some die hards made a private server going back to an older version of the game(pre messed up patches)and that was an instance where private server works,devs got too greedy and deserved to lose the majority of their player base to the first and then hundreds more private servers:)

Forp - Heavens Tear

@all naysayers: u don't have to have a license to host a server of perfect world.

if u did, there would never be a pserver. everybody would be closed down. however, they're not. they don't sell the item(except donations? though that's not really illegal. it's given money, not barder).

section 11 of the tos:

# (m) trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game; and/or
# (n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

private servers(usually) do not break this rule. donating money is not illegal. private servers, until directly sell something, are entirely legal.


jrundora:

that's entirely different. i don't know that field, but i know it's not related in the least.


edit:

anyways, discussion of private servers, or any other game besides pw in general, is actually against the rules. i expect a lock soon.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

basically to get a pserv started, it includes stealing or emulating liscensed copywrited material, it usually falls under copyright infringement, grand theft if the game is worth alot, and even playing one is illegal. its a federal offense! and just like said before, its like pirating music. best bets are to avoid them

Jrudora - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...jrundora:...

Blah!
*Runs away*

Lareish - Harshlands

- -; Games are copyrighted. They are licensed to be run only by the people named in the license. In this case, it would be PWI licensed/owned by PWE. If you aren't PWE, you're not allowed to run a PWI server. The same would go for virtually any game UNLESS THE OWNER OF THE GAME EXPRESSLY MAKES AN EXCEPTION. Seriously, like you'd be allowed to start ripping "God of War," make a derivative ****, and start up a website that ships them out worldwide - even if you send them for free. PWI *is* a business, even if we don't HAVE to pay to play this game. They still make money, and they still lose money if people go elsewhere.

From the TOS:

"The Website, the Games and the features, functions, software and services offered through this Website collectively constitute the "Service.""

#4: Proprietary Rights

"PWE is the owner of the Website, the Games, the Software and the Service, which are protected by US and international law including copyright laws. All rights and title in and to the Website, the Game, the Software and the Service, all features and content thereof... and the selection and arrangement thereof (collectively the "Proprietary Materials") are the proprietary property of PWE or its licensors and are protected by U.S. and international copyright and other proprietary rights laws."

#9: License (to user)

"Except as expressly permitted in these Terms or in the applicable EULA, such license does not include, and you agree not to engage in, any: (a) resale, sublicense,

lending

or commercial use of the Services or the Proprietary Materials therein; (b) distribution, public performance or public display of any Proprietary Materials except in connection with game play in the ordinary course, (d) modifying, adapting, altering, enhancing, or otherwise making any derivative uses of any Games, game content or other Proprietary Materials, or any portion thereof ; ... Any use of the Service or the Proprietary Materials other than as specifically authorized herein, without the prior written permission of PWE is strictly prohibited and will, at PWE's option, terminate the license granted herein. Such unauthorized use may also violate applicable laws including without limitation copyright and trademark laws ..."

SATII - Lost City

I can't believe Forp doesn't believe private servers are illegal... They're only legal if it's being hosted in a country not under the jurisdiction of the license AKA anywhere where there's no legal PW.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

I don't like it when people under level 40 post in these forums.. their opinions are so unworthy

angellicdeity

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

basically to get a pserv started, it includes stealing or emulating liscensed copywrited material, it usually falls under copyright infringement, grand theft if the game is worth alot, and even playing one is illegal. its a federal offense! and just like said before, its like pirating music. best bets are to avoid them

Please dont speak when you dont understand law.


Terms of Service are not legal binding contracts. Unless the said participant has their physical signature on the electronic document, it is not legally binding. (This is not directed at you in particular, this was meant for the various posts above)


This judgement was handed down by both European and US courts.



It is not illegal to play on those servers - by the laws of any country. The legal implications fall souly on the ones running said establishment. With that said, although illegal to run said servers, it is not illegal to play on said servers.


Whilst it may be copyright infringement to use the graphics and said unique mechanics to Perfect Worlds Gameplay, if any of the underlying code bears any relationship to any code licensed under the GPL or open-source initiatives - then it really isn't copyright infringement for those said portions of Perfect World. In fact - it would be considered illegal for Perfect World Entertainment to sell the client without providing full access to those portions. Hence why Perfect World Entertainment does not sell the client - but rather the service associated with the clients use.


So please, avoid posting in subject's where you have little competence.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

#9: License (to user)

"Except as expressly permitted in these Terms or in the applicable EULA, such license does not include, and you agree not to engage in, any: (a) resale, sublicense, lending or commercial use of the Services or the Proprietary Materials therein; (b) distribution, public performance or public display of any Proprietary Materials except in connection with game play in the ordinary course, (d) modifying, adapting, altering, enhancing, or otherwise making any derivative uses of any Games, game content or other Proprietary Materials, or any portion thereof ; ... Any use of the Service or the Proprietary Materials other than as specifically authorized herein, without the prior written permission of PWE is strictly prohibited and will, at PWE's option, terminate the license granted herein. Such unauthorized use may also violate applicable laws including without limitation copyright and trademark laws ..."

fail less, TOS you agree to is in fact a contract in which you agree to abide by to use PWE's property and products. they are indeed legally binding, and can be enforced to the fullest letter of the law if you indeed violate them with an unlawful act.

source coding of the entire game solely belongs to PWE, in which private servers A) steal the source coding; or take an emulated copy of the source coding; which is totally liable for copywrite infringement and or grand theft. it doesnt just fall under 'graphics or unique gameplay.'

In fact - it would be considered illegal for Perfect World Entertainment to sell the client without providing full access to those portions. Hence why Perfect World Entertainment does not sell the client - but rather the service associated with the clients use.

wrong, its called getting a license, they dont 'sell the client' they give you the right to 'borrow the name' and make money off of it, its called a franchise.

It is not illegal to play on those servers - by the laws of any country. The legal implications fall souly on the ones running said establishment. With that said, although illegal to run said servers, it is not illegal to play on said servers.

wrong again, you own stolen copywrited material, youre just as liable as the guys running the server. its just like pirating a song, you cant just say, oh i didnt leak it online, so its ok, i can take it for free anyways. if you have said song, you just broke the law.

please, before you post anymore idiocy, take your so called knowledge of law and dont let it hit you on the **** on the way out.

Yukiko - Lost City

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

fail less, TOS you agree to is in fact a contract in which you agree to abide by to use PWE's property and products. they are indeed legally binding, and can be enforced to the fullest letter of the law if you indeed violate them with an unlawful act.

source coding of the entire game solely belongs to PWE, in which private servers A) steal the source coding; or take an emulated copy of the source coding; which is totally liable for copywrite infringement and or grand theft. it doesnt just fall under 'graphics or unique gameplay.'


wrong, its called getting a license, they dont 'sell the client' they give you the right to 'borrow the name' and make money off of it, its called a franchise.


wrong again, you own stolen copywrited material, youre just as liable as the guys running the server. its just like pirating a song, you cant just say, oh i didnt leak it online, so its ok, i can take it for free anyways. if you have said song, you just broke the law.

please, before you post anymore idiocy, take your so called knowledge of law and dont let it hit you on the **** on the way out.

I honestly suggest you do some research on the case of Gravity vs eAthena before you post again.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

im well aware of gravity and the eathena situation, eathena uses actual stolen material and distributes it free of charge, much like a napster website, and gravity can do nothing about it. freya servers on the other hand use emulated content. i mean even my idiot cousin whos 13 found his own set of kRO scripts and can go willy nilly on the game because gravity sucks at taking action.

on the other hand, companies like blizzard and square enix crack down the FBI and lawsuits on private servers, as they have the money to do it :P.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Law Offices Of Charles J. Piven, P.A. Announces Class Action Lawsuit Against Gravity Co., Ltd.
May 19, 2005: 1:34 p.m. EST

BALTIMORE, MD (Market Wire) - Law Offices Of Charles J. Piven, P.A. today announced that a securities class action was commenced on behalf of purchasers of the American Depository Shares ("ADSs") of Gravity Co., Ltd. (NASDAQ: GRVY) pursuant and/or traceable to the Company's Registration Statement/Prospectus issued in connection with the initial public offering of Gravity ADSs (the "IPO" or the "Offering"), together with those who purchased their shares on the open market between February 7, 2005 and May 12, 2005, inclusive (the "Class Period").

The case is pending in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York against defendant Gravity Co., Ltd. and one or more of its officers and/or directors. The action charges that defendants violated federal securities laws by issuing a series of materially false and misleading statements to the market throughout the Class Period, which statements had the effect of artificially inflating the market price of the Company's securities.

No class has yet been certified in the above action. Until a class is certified, you are not represented by counsel unless you retain one. If you are a member of the proposed class, you may move the court no later than July 18, 2005 to serve as a lead plaintiff for the proposed class. In order to serve as a lead plaintiff, you must meet certain legal requirements. To be a member of the proposed class you need not take any action at this time, and you may retain counsel of your choice.

If you acquired shares of Gravity Co., Ltd. during the Class Period indicated and want to discuss your legal rights, you may e-mail or call Law Offices Of Charles J. Piven, P.A. who will, without obligation or cost to you, attempt to answer your questions. Charles J. Piven has been involved in securities litigation for approximately 20 years. You may contact Law Offices Of Charles J. Piven, P.A. at The World Trade Center-Baltimore, 401 East Pratt Street, Suite 2525, Baltimore, Maryland 21202, by email at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] or by calling 410/986-0036.
In non legalise:



This wasn't about stock holders being promised something, but more about Gravity misrepresenting 1.) the state of their company 2.) the state of their products 3.) the state of their overseas investments and 4.) the value of their stock and company prospects as a whole, among other things. They did more than just "mislead" people; they committed fraud. Wherever these lawsuits go, Gravity has still permanently debauched itself in the eyes of investors. This is a pretty big deal.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Letter to certain pserv owner(the send these to any they find):

From: gravitycs <gravitycs@gravity.co.kr>
Date: Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 10:03 PM
Subject: Request for Cessation of Infringement of Intellectual Property


To: http://puddingsro.com

puddingsro@gmail.com



From: Gravity Co., Ltd.

gravitycs@gravity.co.kr


Date: March 06, 2009


Re: Request for Cessation of Infringement of Intellectual Property


Dear Sir/Madam:

We, after creating the Ragnarok online game(RO Game ) has registered the intellectual property with the registration number 2003-01-14-381 on January 27, 2003, and is currently in the process of providing transmission services of RO Game globally through Internet from August 1, 2002 to date.

We has recently learned that you are providing the game identical to RO Game which the intellectual property rights are owned by us without any approval by us through Internet (Attachment 1: URL(website) on which you are providing the game). Such activity conducted by you constitutes an unlawful activity which violates Korean Intellectual Property Law, and is further, in violation of Articles 2(1), 9(1), 15(1) and 36 of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.

There is no question that your activity is an unlawful one infringing our intellectual property rights under the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literacy and Artistic Works. Accordingly, we demand you to (i) immediately cease reproducing or transmitting the game identical to RO Game, and (ii) voluntarily shutdown the homepage from which you are providing the game identical to RO Game within seven (7) days of your receipt of this letter.

In the event that our request above is not complied with within seven (7) days of your receipt of this letter, We will avail ourselves of all legal recourses available in both civil and criminal context, such as a lawsuit for damages as well as filing of a criminal complaint, if applicable under the relevant jurisdiction. We hope that you recognize the seriousness of your activities and that you will respond accordingly.





Sincerely,

Gravity Co., Ltd.

Chairman & CEO

Lareish - Harshlands

Nice arguments, Tearvalerin.

truekossy

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

im well aware of gravity and the eathena situation, eathena uses actual stolen material and distributes it free of charge, much like a napster website, and gravity can do nothing about it. freya servers on the other hand use emulated content. i mean even my idiot cousin whos 13 found his own set of kRO scripts and can go willy nilly on the game because gravity sucks at taking action.

on the other hand, companies like blizzard and square enix crack down the FBI and lawsuits on private servers, as they have the money to do it :P.

False in more ways than one. eAthenais an emulator and all source code done was made completely by those at eA. Freya (which has been long dead) is much like eA but with a somewhat different system.

Aegis servers, unlike eA, are the ones that are completely illegal since those are the ones using Gravity's software and source code. eA is the equivalent of the guy who hears a song he likes and has a good enough voice to match it, so he records himself singing it and lets those who want a copy have it for free. Aegis servers, on the other hand, would be the ones more likened with Napster and pirating in general.


That aside, IMO, it's quite possible for private servers to have players that are equally or more skilled with the class than those on the official ones. It simply depends on the server itself and how its treated. I've played on private servers for a game the company itself no longer runs and the high rate PvP server was one of the most fast-paced and enjoyable ones I participated in. In fact, it was well known by other private servers for the game that those who came from the high rate server I mention were pretty much unstoppable and our server was constantly recommended for those who wanted o learn how to PvP well in that game.

Personally, though, I see no real need nor reason to have a private server for a F2P game outside of maybe a way to check out your builds/gears and see how feasible a certain strategy may be before taking it to the real thing, assuming you live in an area where said game is available, of course. If the game was abandoned by the company, on the ther hand, or if you were given permission to have said server, it's fine. Otherwise, though, there's really no point to it unless you customize it heavily enough to avoid copyright infringement. Problem being, if you do that then you're not really playing the original game anyway and you may as well have not gone to the private server in the first place.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

EAthena is aegis o.O
http://eathena.deltaanime.net/wiki/index.php/EAthena

truekossy

Implimentation. It's not Aegis but it tries to mimic the official behaviour as closely as possible.

If it were Aegis, bugs like this wouldn't exist or need fixes. :P

angellicdeity

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

fail less, TOS you agree to is in fact a contract in which you agree to abide by to use PWE's property and products. they are indeed legally binding, and can be enforced to the fullest letter of the law if you indeed violate them with an unlawful act.

source coding of the entire game solely belongs to PWE, in which private servers A) steal the source coding; or take an emulated copy of the source coding; which is totally liable for copywrite infringement and or grand theft. it doesnt just fall under 'graphics or unique gameplay.'


wrong, its called getting a license, they dont 'sell the client' they give you the right to 'borrow the name' and make money off of it, its called a franchise.


wrong again, you own stolen copywrited material, youre just as liable as the guys running the server. its just like pirating a song, you cant just say, oh i didnt leak it online, so its ok, i can take it for free anyways. if you have said song, you just broke the law.

please, before you post anymore idiocy, take your so called knowledge of law and dont let it hit you on the **** on the way out.

Idiocy? I'm pretty sure your forum reputation speaks for itself.



At any rate, you should learn a few things before your talking about copyright infringement.


Firstly copyrights are self-proclaimed registrations of intellectual property.


You can choose to have it listed in an official copyright registry, but that does not neccessarily mean it gives you any legal power.


A verbal passage can be claimed as copyrighted by me. In fact I could say the entire contents of my post are copyrighted and by your very slim narrowminded view of law you are "illegally" using my intellectual property in quotes without my permission - even though you have made reference. But in fact many of these views have been exspressed before, therefore the actual ability to use "legal" and "illegal" when referring to all cases with which these idea's have been expressed is not possible. But that is all irrelevant because by making the post, I have unconditionally placed said content in the "public-zone" as I did not express the limits with regards to reproduction.



The truth is, copyrights are merely enforced based on circumstancial information presented when you are trying to defend it. Furthermore they are not recognized in country's to which the definitions and use of intellectual property change. The terms "legal" and "illegal" poorly describe the unauthorized use of intellectual property. When you enforce a copyright you must defend its integrity. Thus cases on copyright infringement are won and lost on a case by case basis.



As such your argument for the use of said services does not "denote" stealing. The "stealing" of said copyrighted material in regards to the case of PWI is that of the server used to run these private servers. You have installed - on your machine a copy of the software which you downloaded with the permission of use - you were permitted a copy to use, but not to redistribute or reproduce without the prior consent of the authors - Perfect World Entertainment.


When using a private server you have not made any "reproduction" of the copyrighted software. You are still merely only using the Perfect World Client. Now if you downloaded a client from said private servers - then it would be a copyright infringement open to interpretation.


But I'm afraid you need to do a little more research before spouting off analogies. When we are talking about music you are acquiring the said material from a source not given the permission to redistribute and or reproduce said material.



Again, you need to get your head out of your "****" and stick to the topic originally intended by the original poster:




Private servers I think dont matter. I think they just give people a way to "test" out what it is like to actually be at the end of the game. I suppose another reason is so they can stroke their ego's - but they find out it doesn't quite work so well when the server is practically dead. In the end they just come back here anyways.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Firstly copyrights are self-proclaimed registrations of intellectual property.

WRONG, Copyright is a legal concept, enacted by governments, giving the creator of an original work of authorship exclusive rights to control its work. Copyright gives the author of an original work exclusive right for a certain time period in relation to that work, including its publication, distribution and adaptation, after which time the work is said to enter the public domain.

You can choose to have it listed in an official copyright registry, but that does not neccessarily mean it gives you any legal power.

theyre enforced by the government, in which is a sovereign being, AKA a law making body. you have plenty of legal rights in the world.

As such your argument for the use of said services does not "denote" stealing. The "stealing" of said copyrighted material in regards to the case of PWI is that of the server used to run these private servers. You have installed - on your machine a copy of the software which you downloaded with the permission of use - you were permitted a copy to use, but not to redistribute or reproduce without the prior consent of the authors - Perfect World Entertainment.

private servers have no license or permission from PWE to use or host their games, therefore you are downloading contaband. any body trying to run a private server under a location within jurisdiction of a license agreement is liable upto the fullest letter of the law.

The truth is, copyrights are merely enforced based on circumstancial information presented when you are trying to defend it. Furthermore they are not recognized in country's to which the definitions and use of intellectual property change. The terms "legal" and "illegal" poorly describe the unauthorized use of intellectual property. When you enforce a copyright you must defend its integrity. Thus cases on copyright infringement are won and lost on a case by case basis.

did you read my letter from the CEO of Gravity to a pserv owner? theyve sent out hundreds of them, read this excerpt pertaining to gravity co.'s ragnarok online:

We has recently learned that you are providing the game identical to RO Game which the intellectual property rights are owned by us without any approval by us through Internet (Attachment 1: URL(website) on which you are providing the game). Such activity conducted by you constitutes an unlawful activity which violates Korean Intellectual Property Law, and is further, in violation of Articles 2(1), 9(1), 15(1) and 36 of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.

they do as a matter of fact matter, and are indeed quite illegal. you didnt even present an arguement, you made a long fluffed up monologue without ONE shred of fact or detail, mr I KNOW THE LAW BETTER THAN THOU. please get off of my forums, you have lost this battle.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

truekossy wrote: »

Implimentation. It's not Aegis but it tries to mimic the official behaviour as closely as possible.

If it were Aegis, bugs like this wouldn't exist or need fixes. :P

open source implementation just means its an approach to the design, development, and distribution of software, offering practical accessibility to a software's source code, if aegis = stolen coding, then EAthena is the open source for it :P in the end any pserver usually ends up needing kRO to work anyways, which should not even be avaliable to people outside korea, they region banned us out O:.

Forp - Heavens Tear

i left something out of my post, it's that most of these servers are hosted in the phillipines and i think some servers are in sweden. that being said, those locations are not bound by our law. even if it was illegal, nothing can happen to them.

you still don't have to have a license to host a server, you just have to have a license to redistribute what pwe owns.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

This thread needs to be closed.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

already ahead of you PMed spoons to do it

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

only problem with posting here is when people like you do, who are so rude.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't like it when people under level 40 post in these forums.. their opinions are so unworthy

_Shalimar_ - Sanctuary

I have played a few different private servers for a small amount of time in each one, over 10 if I can remember right. The universal starting character has Nirvana cultivation and 200k spirit to start with. Some will provide enough rep to start with to achieve Rank VI, while others allow Rank VIII. Skills and money are usually not simply handed out. You still have to kill things for your money, and gold also has to be purchased. The best items in the game, like the Godstones, tend to cost a lot of gold. You also have to work through the entire 89-190 cultivations. In most private servers it takes 4-5 hours to hit 100 and get your gear set up, and it takes a long time to hit 150. Furthermore, most people I have met on those servers are people who retired from real servers. Not too many people on those servers don't know what they are doing.

Fyrah - Sanctuary

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Private Server = IRREGAL

PWI Server = REGAL

Engrish FTW.

Wooo, I agree. I lol'd.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't like it when people under level 40 post in these forums.. their opinions are so unworthy

Your opinion is just as unworthy if you think the level on someone's avater actually means something useful.

eatwithspoons

this has never been allowed. Why would you seek to post about it?