Help me make up my mind (Sage/Demon)

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

EDIT:troll Tear isnt worth the time of day

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

gl with your FB and 89 then rei :O!

and for obsessed.


this was sad, you had nothing to refute the superiority of a vit/mag build, and just jumped to 'o my bird can keel u.' no, it cant sorry, dealt with enough ambush phoenixes by SP to not die to one. bleed doesnt drop 6k HP fast either, theres enough time to cauterize or apoth pot in between hit one and two. if you wanna play in that boat, i can 2 shot barbs in their 80s, what makes you think youre going to be any harder to kill? or are you just so sad that PVP to you is flinging an ironwood and pressing alt+1 and accelerate on your fly mount to run away/demon fox form hotkey. come on defend your build, dont put up random I KAN KILL U bull shart.

Because the heavy isn't going to be dumb enough to be wearing heavy in that instance,the heavy is also going to be a smart pvper who knows how to chain stun you and stop your attacks,while getting in close and adding to the nix's damage so quick that you'll be lying flat on your back with your legs in the air faster than ya can say Paris Hilton.


FACT: your weaknesses.

FACT: this is slightly less than a non fox form light armor in their high 70s low 80s. it can take some hits, with very high hp to conpensate. my only weakness? plume shot, and ambushing archers. BM and Barb? catch you coming-> spark-> dead in 1-2 hits.


truth ^. unless youre going to defend your build, instead of insist its just the same as LA or vit arcane, i have no time for you.

your character development is what we'd label unique, good job making it work, novelty doesnt get very far sometimes, im sorry you just get butthurt when the weaknesses are labeled. its kinda sad, instead of defending your unique build like isala does, you just get all arrogant with me. meta game doesnt work how we always like, thus your silly phoenix excuse is null and void.

Running into large groups of melee attackers in a tw and living to tell the tale,tanking 3-4 mobs in tt2-2 3-1,**** arcanes with chain stun then up close melee foxing alongside the phoenix,being able to take massive punishment from archers while debuffing the hell outta cata pullers and watching them drop like flies,being able to then switch to arcane and take on magic users you see coming...humbly effective?Heavy veno in its different forms is way more versatile and effective than a light or an arcane,it isn't labelled as THE pvp build for nothing.

Aww bad pet heal,who cares?Its a PVP BUILD more than anything,and its normally only undertaken near endgame when you're bored/done with all the pve sht.

I used to be pro light until i tried hvy out,and hot damn it makes you feel positively godly b:pleased

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

bravo on a well presented defense unlike obsessed. you get +1 internets

,the heavy is also going to be a smart pvper who knows how to chain stun you and stop your attacks.

I can do that too .

**** arcanes with chain stun then up close melee foxing alongside the phoenix

dont need to melee to still do 1-1.5k (3-4 sparked)a cast a hit to em along with the bird hitting. pure mag builds are kinda sad with how fast they die/

tanking 3-4 mobs in tt2-2 3-1

cool beans, i leave that to herc while **** them to death.

being able to take massive punishment from archers while debuffing the hell outta cata pullers and watching them drop like flies

why take punishment from archers when i can kill them in 2 casts? any other build can debuff and **** a barb just as well, its not really an outstanding difference.

being able to then switch to arcane and take on magic users you see coming...

plausible, but extremely expensive to buy, gem and refine a second armor set, let alone time consuming to switch to them without doing a /faceroll across a set of hotkeys. with murphy's law and how hectic battle can be, that one cant always be a guarentee. also say hello to considerable hp drop :P.

Heavy veno in its different forms is way more versatile and effective than a light or an arcane

opinion, not fact.

Aww bad pet heal,who cares?

how do you keep the bird alive then to do your bidding if you cant out heal the DD?

i consider vit/mag to be far more flexible in terms of PVE and PVP, as it can suit needs in both worlds. i dont need to spend ridiculous amounts of money or hunt weird gear/goof around with my stats to try and make something work. i love my ability to solo bosses and withstand AOEs from them like drummer or feng without a hitch, to take massive punishment from and deal it back to the mage monsters we level on from 86-90+ (fish, undines, lethal arenied sharpfangs, sage air mobs) love being able to 1-2 shot any barbs, BMs, or archers who try to bring the pain, love being able to hold me some wizards and clerics too. call it 'more effective' all you want, my opinion still remains the same, its still a shot in the foot for just the ability to take a hit. cutting my damage in half just so i can get hit is just ludicrous to me :P.

Reikara - Heavens Tear

People kinda need to wake up and realise that we dont restat to heavy "just to take a hit". You surrender some magic attack for physical attack, physical defense, magic attack and magic defense, makes a far more versatile build o_O

And for the money issue.. people spend 200$ on a nix because it ****, for the same reason i'm willing to spend alot on my own build.

Isala - Sanctuary

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »

humbly effective?

I meant that as a complement, meaning she didn't have to rely on the flashy, and fancy, like hoping for Crits etc, when her build, at its core, was based off it's own power.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

I meant that as a complement, meaning she didn't have to rely on the flashy, and fancy, like hoping for Crits etc, when her build, at its core, was based off it's own power.

Criticals are weird anyway,i have 4% crit chance since leaving light behind and they just keep coming out at a higher rate than 4 implies,RNG ftw.

BTW I went sage too,fox form defense and better debuffs swung my decision,and the ironwood having a large chance to fail completely just ruins demon for me.

xxxdsmer

i am not sage nor demon so i'm not going to say this is correct, as ecatomb has been wrong before, but...

according to ecatomb as of the time of this posting, both sage and demon summer sprint are +45% speed and they have their own different sage/demon addons

(seen ppl commenting on different speed bonus for the skills n thought i'd contribute this bit)

Peritia - Lost City

xxxdsmer wrote: »

i am not sage nor demon so i'm not going to say this is correct, as ecatomb has been wrong before, but...

according to ecatomb as of the time of this posting, both sage and demon summer sprint are +45% speed and they have their own different sage/demon addons

(seen ppl commenting on different speed bonus for the skills n thought i'd contribute this bit)

You are correct in this observation, but the speed difference between Sage and Demon lies in the Fox Form skill.

Fox Form ●
Sage version always grants a 150% physical defense increase and a 250% accuracy increase.

Fox Form ○
Demon version gives movement speed increase of 60% for 6 seconds after transforming.

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear

If you are a Mage Veno (one who specializes in spell casting) then Demon may be a better way to go but I cannot say with any certainty.

If you are a Fox Veno (one who uses Fox Attacks and stays in Fox Form with Attributes, Armor, and Skills to match) then Sage is where it is at. That speed boost from Demon is irrelevent to a Fox because switching out of Fox Form = Death. So switching back and forth is pointless if you want speed boost use an Apoth powder (I can already go faster than the fastest LAND MOUNT with those powders) otherwise you are making yourself vulnerable and wasting MP. Meanwhile the benefits to Fox Form & Leech alone far outweigh ANYTHING Demon has to offer you and if you do not know why then you are a poor Fox Veno.

If you are a serious hybrid...uh...well...Good Luck.

Aisubeki - Sanctuary

If you are a Mage Veno (one who specializes in spell casting) then Demon may be a better way to go but I cannot say with any certainty.

this is very wrong. sage far out damages demon with longer and heavier hitting debuffs and raw magic strength. with how fast it gains chi, you can 3x spark fairly quickly and deal out major spell damage.

demon is better for a fox user, better weapon damage buff.

Isala - Sanctuary

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you are a serious hybrid...uh...well...Good Luck.

<<<<Hybrid. I'm going Sage. My build could use the raw numbers, not the crits, and special abilities of Demon. Plus, Sage Fox Form = Yummy.

Alphae - Lost City

I've studied the demon vs skills and what it seems to me is that sage is about increasing your raw damage and DPS in general, while demon really improves your buff/debuff ability.

In my build, as a light vit, heavy phys res stat/stone focus, mage veno, the debuff improvement really appeals to me, especially the debuff on demon venomous scarab (another debuff in mag form b:dirty) and the increase in length of demon amp, etc. The only skill I ever find myself using in fox is amp. Otherwise, if I'm in fox, it's because I've bitten off more than I can chew, and I AM running anyway. So the speed will be more helpful than the % increase of my low pdef.

Considering, I would say it's a wise choice for you to go sage Reikara. You've got the debuffs and the ability to use fox effectively, and sage will cover the damage your build lacks. Your high pdef will benefit greatly from fox form and since you're utilizing more fox form skills, some of the godly ones that come with sage can be used by you to their fullest extent (when we are able to obtain them finally!).

Good luck on the culti and FB =D