Sage crown of flames

Satuki - Harshlands

does anyone know how long it lasts?
+15% fire damage

Ishmah - Sanctuary

Crown of Flames does 5693.0 damage over a 15 sec period.

Sage variation does an extra 15% damage (5693.0 x 1.15).
Demon variation does 5693.0 damage but faster; over a 12 second period.

No, I don't know this for a fact....only what I researched on ecatomb.

Nyarleth - Harshlands

Sage Crown of Flame increase all fire elemental damage dealt to the target by 15% in the time of curse which is 15 sec for lvl10. So after using Holy Crown of Flame all following fire skills will get +15% dmg bonus.

Gregen - Lost City

Nyarleth - Harshlands wrote: »

Sage Crown of Flame increase all fire elemental damage dealt to the target by 15% in the time of curse which is 15 sec for lvl10. So after using Holy Crown of Flame all following fire skills will get +15% dmg bonus.

...Really?

Forp - Heavens Tear

no, lol. it does an extra 15% fire damage. instead of doing 5600~ it does 6000~.

crown of flame is only useful for fighting mantavip.

Gregen - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

crown of flame is only useful for fighting mantavip.

Why do you say that?

Forp - Heavens Tear

because when else are u going to use such a weak skill? pitfall at least slows and has a chance to freeze, this just does below average damage. and dot skills used from the sky aren't nerfed, so u do full damage to mantavip because u fight him from the sky.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

because when else are u going to use such a weak skill? pitfall at least slows and has a chance to freeze, this just does below average damage. and dot skills used from the sky aren't nerfed, so u do full damage to mantavip because u fight him from the sky.

well... you make sense but i'd rather busy myself with earth attacks since it's manta's elemental weakness.

tyrtallow

Decent damage-over-time (+your base Mattack in the initial hit - that's the total damage of the skill) for just 2 seconds of channeling and casting time with no projectile animation at all is not useless or weak. Impractical for general PvP, yes. Impractical if you can kill something under 6 seconds yes. Impractical if you can tank something easily, yes.
But what about any other situation (general PvE)? Note how most of the lowbie Wizards who struggle are the ones who ignore Crown of Flame and Pitfall (besides the ones who ignore their apothecary crafting skills). And it's easy to invest a few points in the skill and just move on once you think it has outlived its usefulness. At very high levels the skill may have questionable uses, but you'll have enough of other skills to play around with anyway.

Forp - Heavens Tear

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Hmph, in my opinion, he was not making any sense. Not only was Mantavip not made of metal, but other opponents can easily last 15 seconds, and other skills can be on cooldown or take too long or cost too much mana or must remain ready, and sometimes you need just a little bit of damage to finish something off, and in other circumstances you do not need every tick from your crown and... and... and he was FORP!

b:chuckle

first and foremost, it has nothing to do with element. the fact that it does full damage, even from the sky, makes it useful in the fight against mantavip. such as pitfall.

crown of flames is.. weak. it adds no +weapon% for damage, so the initial damage is fairly low. i think a level 101 mage in my previous guild, who had dark pitfall, hit a barb for, maybe, 1k? fluctuating between 900-1.1k is my guess, but it's not enough to make a difference in pvp. it is fast, however. so he uses it often in long boss fights to make his combo dangerously quick.

i've known him to take aggro over archers, given the proper elements.

pitfall, at the same time, also offers the same damage over time but in an earth element. ontop of that, it slows, and has a slight chance to freeze. very valuable to a mage, with so little ways to slow their opponent from moving.

crown of flames will likely never be used in a practical situation unless you're desperate for another quick hit to bridge your combo.

ie:
pyro, gush, pitfall, pyro, gush, crown of flames, pyro, gush, etc.

deadly fast when you get about -20% chant, but u would have to have the level and the base magic attack to make it work. and the skills. assuming all of those were dark, that u were 95~ or higher, and that you're pure, that might kill someone.

might.

can't be sure, at higher levels i've known some warriors to have 15k~ hp unbuffed.

but that's not here, and i've never known a mage in any of the years that i've played this game to use it in pvp other than a duel and when they're doing what i mentioned before. but i don't consider duels very realistic.

meaangirl

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

first and foremost, it has nothing to do with element. the fact that it does full damage, even from the sky, makes it useful in the fight against mantavip. such as pitfall.

crown of flames is.. weak. it adds no +weapon% for damage, so the initial damage is fairly low. i think a level 101 mage in my previous guild, who had dark pitfall, hit a barb for, maybe, 1k? fluctuating between 900-1.1k is my guess, but it's not enough to make a difference in pvp. it is fast, however. so he uses it often in long boss fights to make his combo dangerously quick.

i've known him to take aggro over archers, given the proper elements.

pitfall, at the same time, also offers the same damage over time but in an earth element. ontop of that, it slows, and has a slight chance to freeze. very valuable to a mage, with so little ways to slow their opponent from moving.

crown of flames will likely never be used in a practical situation unless you're desperate for another quick hit to bridge your combo.

ie:
pyro, gush, pitfall, pyro, gush, crown of flames, pyro, gush, etc.

deadly fast when you get about -20% chant, but u would have to have the level and the base magic attack to make it work. and the skills. assuming all of those were dark, that u were 95~ or higher, and that you're pure, that might kill someone.

might.

can't be sure, at higher levels i've known some warriors to have 15k~ hp unbuffed.

but that's not here, and i've never known a mage in any of the years that i've played this game to use it in pvp other than a duel and when they're doing what i mentioned before. but i don't consider duels very realistic.

Be realistic here, most people that are fighting mantavip do not have hell DoTs yet. In fact, most mages have those DoT as lv1, only to use as a finisher. Using earth element skills or just alternating gush and pyro is much faster.

Again, you are making **** up that does not make sense.

Forp - Heavens Tear

actually, yes, he does have those skills. nearly all skills, in fact. though that isn't in pwi, that's in delphi.

and it might suprise u, but it's very common to find mages with those skills maxed. yes, they're considerably weak, but they still do damage. and using it only as a finisher, not a chain or a starter, just shows how little that particular mage knows about what his skills can do.

and no, pyro and gush is not faster when u have too much -chant. especially when u get dark pyro, when the chant is reduced. spamming the 2 independently will only slow u down. hence why i added such fast casting skills between to bridge the combo.

but of course, this is all made up so why listen to me?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

Every level, I sit down and work out some numbers for myself. For each skill, I find my instant damage (ignoring casting and channelling times), and my instant dps (dividing by casting+channelling time) and I also figure this out for extended (15+ second) battles. Once I know how well each skill does, I can pick good openers and good combos for different situations. (Cooldowns, elements, movement control, mana consumption, etc.) I have been thinking about running a set of numbers based on damage per mana point, but I have not done so, yet.

Anyways, sometimes my crown and pitfall have been my highest damage skills for long battles, doing better dps than gush. And, even now, they do decent damage in long battles.

I feel so sorry for you when at level 60 the fastest way to kill a mob is pyro > gush > pyro > extra gush if needed

Piliener - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I feel so sorry for you when at level 60 the fastest way to kill a mob is pyro > gush > pyro > extra gush if needed

Ignore this statement he must be crazy or just LA b:chuckle. I almost never get hit by mobs anymore my combo is Glacial Snare, (if slow takes) sandstorm/(if slow does not take) gush, force of will, gush then pick a move it should be dead with this spell. All this pyro-gush-pyro repeat business is nuts go make an archer if you want to roll a macro or two.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

My combos always started with the highest range nuke.
DP until SS got to lvl 10.
Then gush, then whatever did more damage (pyro/SR). These 3 hits have to bring the mob down if you're arcane.
Now that my SS is maxed, that's the opener. I don't have glacial maxed yet, although the slow effect is much bigger than gush. But I didn't find the use for it yet, cause SS-Gush-SR-Gush or DP-Gush-Pyro-Gush(on metal) kills every possible mob +-3 lvl without having a chance to touch me.
Pyro-Gush is a cheap way to do dmg ( combined cost is 285 mp and hit more than a 344mp SS) but that's only after hitting the mob with a nuke like SS or GS. That opener has to take about 40-48% of mob's life, so the rest is dealed with the quick Pyro-Gush

tyrtallow

From my "teens" to my "near seventies" my basic combo was always divine, gush,crown of flame/pitfall. I sneak in sandstorm/phoenix/etc depending on the the enemy type and the desired "unique" effect I wanted.
Sometimes I don't use divine (like when I didn't have it yet XD), and replace it with SS or something else with long range. When I use Spark Eruption/similar effects I skip the DoT's until the effect wears off.
The logic here is similar to Ursa's - long range/high channeling,casting spell first - followed by a dependable slow - then a DoT. At higher levels replace DoT with some other spell if you think you can finish the monster off with just one more spell or two more fast spells. Use Distance Shrink where necessary (sometimes Increased Life/Magic Resistant-type mobs are unavoidable) and repeat.

Anyways, sometimes my crown and pitfall have been my highest damage skills for long battles, doing better dps than gush. And, even now, they do decent damage in long battles.

I wouldn't say "highest damage", but these spells are very dependable at levels when you're at your weakest. They are bonus DPS for just 2 seconds' worth of casting, and they allow you to reposition yourself when necessary.
I think everyone already agrees that these spells are not too useful in PvP so just ignore that road now, the fact is they are great in low-mid PvE and you can easily devote a few levels to them.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

yeah, pitfall is usefull against water mobs as finisher.
even at lvl 1, if you're 60 or so will do about 2-3k dmg on them, that's great for 68mp. There were times when doing Justice at Hydrolace I found very usefull to throw a lvl2 pitfall for finisher than a gush. Same cast time, half the cost, same effect.

Kristoph - Lost City

Or you can just ignore them and stick with Pyrogram, Gush, Stone Rain and Sandstorm until you're 6x, where you can start working on DPyro and Phoenix. Without wasting any spirit on these DoT skills, which are better used as finishers. Ignoring them is nothing you'll ever regret.

meaangirl

Piliener - Lost City wrote: »

Ignore this statement he must be crazy or just LA b:chuckle. I almost never get hit by mobs anymore my combo is Glacial Snare, (if slow takes) sandstorm/(if slow does not take) gush, force of will, gush then pick a move it should be dead with this spell. All this pyro-gush-pyro repeat business is nuts go make an archer if you want to roll a macro or two.

Your dps is ****ing low if you do that. Also it is not very mana efficient to use force of will, which is the reason you are not getting hit. Maybe if you learn to use gush/pyro properly you can save MP/high DPS/kite at the same time.

tyrtallow

Most people ignore them, and and yet the majority of those who do complain that Wizards stink at low levels. Perhaps this is one possible alternative, besides going LA. And it has its own set of pros as well as cons - those who do not invest in DoT spells have a slightly better advantage at higher levels. Still, it might be a good alternative for those who maintain that the "hellish" lower levels of the Wizard are what makes it unplayable/weak.
The discussions on how these spells could be useful in PvE are just there for others to follow. You don't have to like them or maintain that they are useless, the Wizard class still has a lot of room for improvement so it would help if we knew everything about it.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

it takes less mana, and my gush crits for 8k for some reason. Why does my gush always crit and everything else rarely crits b:cry

i only critted with BIDS twice, BT once, MS never, GS 3 times, gush 20-25 times in the past 2 days....

Pirodar - Sanctuary

pyro -> gush -> pyro -> gush is cheap and does lot's of damage in case of pure mags. It's hard to beat that DPS with other skills without sutra. Usually it's still to weak, to kill the mob before it gets to you, so you want to use an opener with longer channelling and more damage at the start. You can channel as long as you want with the opener without risking being hit. But if You want to max your DPS, pyro, gush and probably those DoT skills are your best friends.

I tried to kill Cadevils near East Barrier Village for some reason lately. They are lvl 85 wood type poisoning mobs. Without buffs I can't kill them with

sandstorm -> gush -> pyro -> gush

with enough probability or at all ( I hate high damage ranges on weapons).
I don't have to tell You about DP -> gush -> pyro -> gush I guess.

DP -> gush -> stone rain -> gush is enough

But gush -> pyro -> gush -> pyro -> gush works too

The mob is quite slow and likes to self buff before attacking, so I rarely get hit with the least combo.

Now what do You pyro -> gush -> pyro -> gush haters propose as an alternative? I conider "just get buffs" option as cheating here.

Now to CoF. I got it to level 3 early (around level 20 - 25) because it let me continue to 3 shot mobs, that were slowly growing to strong for 3 shooting. But later I got DP and CoF stopped to be useful as main damage dealer.

I have it at lvl 10 now. I've written about my disappointments elsewhere already. I'm still looking for the answer how it really works and why the damage is different from what I would expect after reading the description.

I think the total damage of CoF is less than the total damage of pyrogram, despite the fact, that the numbers in description suggest otherwise, because the DoT part is not affected by the fire mastery. In case of pyrogram total damage must be amplified by fire mastery and the burn effect of CoF apparently isn't. But that's not proven theory yet.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

i tried another combo =p

pyro > pitfall > gush > pyro
works the same way....
or i could
pyro > gush > pitfall and watch the mob dies as it hit me

i only get hit when im aoe'ing them all other than that 1v1 pve its pyro > gush > pyro > gush

MY GUSH NEEDS TO STOP CRITTING OMFG

Piliener - Lost City

meaangirl wrote: »

Your dps is ****ing low if you do that. Also it is not very mana efficient to use force of will, which is the reason you are not getting hit. Maybe if you learn to use gush/pyro properly you can save MP/high DPS/kite at the same time.

Well I have two problems with this. First, I am not an archer so DPS w/e. Second, I could argue that your pot/heal cost winds up being a lot less efficient with both money and mp so please show yourself faceless wonder or just b:shutup