Wizards and a non suicidal melee build?

lostsoul1213

I played a wizard (human) to around level 31. Usually I am cool with soloing on my other characters (veno, barb, cleric)

One thing stood out, after testing all 6 classes, wizard seemed the weakest class overall. They do great damage ranged. But melee, they are suicidal.

The only way my wizard even survived most of the time was in party with others.. something like a veno or barbarian.

I do think cleric and wizard are close on the same build. My cleric i have used light armor build and it has survived (for the most part with charms) most fights. Yet I have not seen a build yet that can survive a melee hit up close and survive more than a few hits on wizard. I would propose a 3 magic, 1 vit, 1 str approach.. it works well on cleric and might survive on wizard.

Any suggestions for those who wish to be masochists?

Oh yes, I have tested all 6 classes. Perhaps will share my findings on all 6. nah think will keep them secret. Have to keep some ideas on how to kill each class

Lareish - Harshlands

Wizards can solo just fine. I have rarely died to mobs and when I have, it's usually been elite ones that were above my level and aggro'd on me. (DC near Farng and relog next to him = anklemunched to death.)

A good survivability build for Wizards is Light Armor (3 mag 1 str 1 dex). Carry Life Powder and Focus Powder, + Earth shield, and you can grind on monsters and take melee hits and even poison just fine.

Cast heal between bouts if things get too bad, but Life Powder + Earth Barrier should keep your health bar virtually full, even doing 3 mobs in a row. It only gets risky if the mobs stack poison on you - the powder + shield does fine against 1 poison but if it is still on you and you get poisoned again, the bar starts dropping. Multiple mobs are also a bit more trouble but I'm good at picking the ones that won't gang up on me.

Also, it's good to learn how to Kite as a wizard. You start casting a spell, select a spot further away from the mob, and when the spell casts, you automatically go there. Reach the spot, start casting, click a spot, repeat. It keeps melee monsters within your range but you stay out of theirs. It takes a little longer to kill them but you can do it without any pots or powders

Rinnve - Lost City

lostsoul1213 wrote: »

One thing stood out, after testing all 6 classes, wizard seemed the weakest class overall. They do great damage ranged. But melee, they are suicidal.

Let me guess. Pure build?

It is wrong to go pure in low levels. Wiz needs some protection, and pure build gains all protection from equipment. This means that all your equipment must be very good, with right bonuses, crapload of expensive shards and refinement - most of this just pointless before 8X/9X. Before that point, wiz must use survival builds, like LA or vit. (Well, you can do it with pure or near-pure, it's just much harder. And don't confuse survival build with tanking, it's about being able to take some hits, not mimicking bms/barbs.)

Anemone - Harshlands

Being pure at low levels isn't a mistake. It teaches you how to handle yourself in situations that could wind up with you bashing the respawn button. It also helps you know your limits and how important nicer equips will be later. Adding vit or LA will help cushion your HP, yes, but it's not much different because you'll usually take an extra hit; especially if you are relying on the LA/vit to take care of most situations.

The idea is to learn how to control your enemies so that they can't get to your melee range, for PvE. For PvP they don't get enough opponent control skills, and so are more geared towards attacking people that are attacking other players or mobs; or killing the person before they get to melee range.

A mage doesn't get their full arsenal of "kiting" skills for PvE until level 49. You get them at 29 (distance shrink), 39 (will of the phoenix), and 49 (force of will / snare). Use your heal or some pots til then.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Anemone - Harshlands wrote: »

Being pure at low levels isn't a mistake. It teaches you how to handle yourself in situations that could wind up with you bashing the respawn button. It also helps you know your limits and how important nicer equips will be later. Adding vit or LA will help cushion your HP, yes, but it's not much different because you'll usually take an extra hit; especially if you are relying on the LA/vit to take care of most situations.

You can learn those same exact things with non-pure builds. With pure builds you'll end up bashing the re-spawn button more if you make a mistake, or lag, or a mob spawns on your head.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Go back to playing your venomancer OMG. I know LA wizes, most don't even bother to kite, even against magic mobs.

Pure is the End-game build for wizes, we kill faster than LA wizes, we like the challenge. We like to learn what is essentially the most difficult class to play, if you can't handle playing a pure wiz through the first 60 levels then the problem is, you suck at games. Reroll to an easier class if you can't handle it.

Rinnve, stop trying to shove your crappy 'vit' build on people. Your basically LA without the added defence and crit chance.

I get real grumpy at night.

meaangirl

Emberstorm is your answer. Go do the culti 49 and get the skill. You will not regret.b:laugh

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

meaangirl wrote: »

Emberstorm is your answer. Go do the culti 49 and get the skill. You will not regret.b:laugh

think devs were a bit drunk when they added emberstorm to wizard. that's a barb skill!!!

Anemone - Harshlands

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You can learn those same exact things with non-pure builds. With pure builds you'll end up bashing the re-spawn button more if you make a mistake, or lag, or a mob spawns on your head.

Of course, but most people rely on their alternate build instead because they never -have- to take those precautions. =P Especially those that try other classes first. Being pure magic isn't nearly as hard as people make it out to be. It's not like it'd kill you to use a pot or two for a mistake anyway.

You just have to be willing to learn to play it like a MG; it's not the same as the other classes. You have no auto atk. Your initial skills aren't "spammable" and you don't have stacked ironhearts or a pet tank to hide behind. Ditch the water shield for stone barrier if phys mobs are kicking your ****. Etc.

Rinnve - Lost City

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pure is the End-game build for wizes, we kill faster than LA wizes, we like the challenge.

LOL. You just sayed it. "End-game build" means that it is pointless or just plain stupid to go end-build before end-game.

Y'know, leveling my vit wiz in swamps is hard enough compared to, say, my pure cleric. There is no IH for tanking, just some hp. Even two mobs can be dangerous, three involves pots, kiting and FoW, four involves running as hell.
Playing pure on those levels is just plain masochistic. If you enjoy it, well, do it. Just don't say it is good. It is not. It is because of those like you wizards are considered weak, gimped and useless.

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Rinnve, stop trying to shove your crappy 'vit' build on people. Your basically LA without the added defence and crit chance.

1. It is not my build. 2. It is not crappy. 3. It is not LA-mimick. If you can't tell the difference between LA and vit... well, l2p.

Feiric - Harshlands

Being LA most of the time and just walking out of the low levels, I'd have to agree that pure-build users are probably better and kiting haha. I don't kite as much as I should, but I do make it a point to get plenty of practice, since I plan to restat around 80-90ish. If you're playing pure, be prepaired to kite your you'll die. Otherwise yeah you probably shouldn't play a pure-build wiz, assuming that's what you played.

If you were playing LA and you kept dying, well of all the 6 classes you played, Wiz definately isn't for you. That violates the purpose of the LA build. If you were pure, just learn to use your skills more effectively (something you should do regardless, but more so with pure.)

That's my two cents.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

The differance between an LA and a Vit build is obvious, ones for people with common sense.

Also worth mentioning that in the swamp, I could easy take 3-4 horse guys at a time by kiting them.

Rinnve - Lost City

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

The differance between an LA and a Vit build is obvious, ones for people with common sense.

Say it aloud, then.

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also worth mentioning that in the swamp, I could easy take 3-4 horse guys at a time by kiting them.

Without charm? Or, kiting like in "90% running, 10% damaging"?

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Say it aloud, then.

OK WITH A VIT BUILD YOU CAN GET WHAT, 1K MORE HP? BIG WOOP, TWO HITS FROM ANY MELEE CLASS WILL DESTROY THAT. LA ADDS THE PDEF THAT WIZARDS LACK, THIS+STONE BARRIER GIVES YOU GOOD ENOUGH DEFENCE TO SURVIVE IN PVP/TW'S. Loud enough for ya?

LA rely on their added crit rate to make up for lower damage in PvE, although some admit it can be a pain. A higher crit rate in PvP/TW's

Pure build's kill mobs in 3 hits(4 max, 1 minimum) at my level(without spark/cleric buffs).

also those towers in the swamp only deal 75-100 damage up close.

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Without charm? Or, kiting like in "90% running, 10% damaging"?

Yes I was wearing my charm(leftover from zhen), but no, it didn't tick.

Ya also don't run while kiting(it's a good way to die), you instead cycle shrink, FoW and WoP. 3 mobs is easy(start with a two spark nuke, shrink, gush one mob, FoW another, phoenix the last one, shrink, gush again.....do you really need to be told this?).

Rinnve - Lost City

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

OK WITH A VIT BUILD YOU CAN GET WHAT, 1K MORE HP? BIG WOOP, TWO HITS FROM ANY MELEE CLASS WILL DESTROY THAT. LA ADDS THE PDEF THAT WIZARDS LACK,

1k more hp AND ALL THOSE +DEF BONUSES AND DEF SHARDS. For now, my equipment kinda sux, i did not wasted money on good 6X armor/ornaments, but in 5X i did have ~50% p.damage reduction with stone barrier. LA has higher def, but lower hp, so survivability against physical damage is about the same - and against magical, LA is significantly worse.

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

LA rely on their added crit rate to make up for lower damage in PvE, although some admit it can be a pain.

Maybe that's because relying on 3-5% chance is... eh... not wise? Those crits are nice but nothing close to reliable. 2X% maybe, but that's archer, not LA mage.

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pure build's kill mobs in 3 hits(4 max, 1 minimum) at my level(without spark/cleric buffs).

What hits? Gush/pyro? BS. Something slower? That's true for other builds.

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

3 mobs is easy(start with a two spark nuke, shrink, gush one mob, FoW another, phoenix the last one, shrink, gush again.....do you really need to be told this?).

This is "90% running, 10% damaging", sorry.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary

What do you expect when I say kiting? Launching Dragon's breath and crossing my fingers?

The hits against mobs for the 3-4 hits go,

Sandstorm>Gush>FoW>Gush(against fire/water, trying to up Glacial for fire but it costs a ****load)

D.P>Gush>pyro>FoW>pyro(against pretty much anything else)

Also get some +crit gear or a christmas blessing, the differance between 1% and 3% is much more noticable than you think.

What I'm mainly confused by is your server choice and build choice(Vit is considered more PvE oriented for Wiz's)