LA by the Numbers

MntMan - Lost City

Well I am a LA Cleric. Have always been and have been proud to be. I recently came across however a website that lets you see the build by manipulating stats, gear, stones, etc. (I'm sure many of you have seen it already)

I did an experiment based on a LA Cleric Build Level 70 & 80 and a Vitality Cleric Build Level 70 & 80.

For each I assumed pretty decent gear (like no Warsoul or anything) which included TT at the level or Molder gear. Since I have not reached any of these levels yet you can let me know if they are outrageous assumptions on rare or almost unattainable gear and we can change them out. I also assumed that each armor item had 2-3 sockets (assumed same # on each item for both LA and Vit to make fair)

In LA sockets I put HP shards and in Vit build I put Physical Defense as in each that is their weak point. For the weapon I chose the same for each build (TT of level) and put same magic attack shards in each. I do recognize that different TT weapons might better fit different builds though, but to keep it level again I used same.

For shards I only assumed lvl 6 shards as they are easy/cheap to mass produce or come by although I do realize that higher level shards are better, but i wanted to keep it fair and even for average player. Obviously putting flawless or immaculate would change outcomes.

I will post the links here and let all decide independently. I do have a question though about physical defense and evasion. What is the relationship on physical defense and damage? Meaning I know on Venos pets with better defense are better then ones with higher hp because you need to heal them less, however how do the two totally relate to see if a gap in Physical defense of X is better then a gap in HP of Y?

One final note is that you will note that the lvl 70 LA build has arcane wrist armor. This because I can't find any good light armor for a cleric in the arms and when able to get sleeves of sea captain that is the route I would choose.

Enjoy and feel free to play around and post REASONABLE speculation, assumptions or thoughts.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bf95966b961106d0

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=30d816f340ab9c89

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=bdde391ee1937450

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ed066ac390866839


Thanks

SATII - Lost City

Vit builds still use HP shards. They just refine their belts and necklaces like crazy for Pdef.

Forp - Heavens Tear

light should be so easy to follow. i don't see why people have such a hard time finding the right gears.

at 70:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=feb6254d7553a8e3

at 80:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0e431367a30ebd75

critical rings simply because light build needs crits to do damage.

quest jewelery because i know you'll be wearing it. you did in your previews, so i know you'll continue it.

yaksa because you need the crit rate to do damage. otherwise, ambiguidy > yaksa.

Aeneas - Harshlands

Why is your LA cleric wearing Arcane Headgear?

Aneemah - Heavens Tear

Aeneas - Harshlands wrote: »

Why is your LA cleric wearing Arcane Headgear?

Probably because he can't wear the HP helmet of his level (neither Archer does that), but....

Aeneas - Harshlands

Aneemah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Probably because he can't wear the HP helmet of his level (neither Archer does that), but....

....so you wear a one of a lower level....like archers.....

shuzan

TT80 arcane armor is a waste of time, unless you really love running TT and cubing for those gold mats or you're rich as hell.

MntMan - Lost City

I don't know if I agree with your gear selection necessarily for lvl 80. You still have lvl 51 boots on. If you're going with molder boots why wouldn't you go with the lvl 80 mold boots for LA? While your build has more hp and more critical the build I had for LA has higher pdef which I thought was the point of LA and also higher magic attack. You're build also only gives a 1% higher critical rate so not sure if that's a better overall sacrifice over the magic attack. (As an aside I do like your lvl 70 build - Good hp and creative use of gear)

I guess I was showing the build to compare it against Vitality build. so comparing your LA build to the Vitality build I show at lvl 80 you get 10 (TEN) higher pdef then a vitality build but loose 100 hp and 1100 magic attack. Admittedly your critical rate is 8% vs 4%, but is all that worth it? I'm trying to justify my LA build. I think it is a useful build, but as I tinker with gear and stats on this calculator I am becoming disillusioned. Someone please steer me back on the course of being a believer.

As for the comment on refining belts, etc for pdef I know that runs into serious money to get them high. That's why I chose to shard with lvl 6 to just an equal comparison cost wise against LA. What level do you need to get a belt to be enough pdef? Would it be the same cost to just get higher level hp and pdef shards and split them on gear? Just asking because I don't know, but I do know high level orbs go for big coin in game plus cost of mirages.

Forp - Heavens Tear

actually, i left the boots lower because the level 80 light boots need like 20 gold dq and maybe twice as many silver. that's highly unreasionable imo. so i'd rather stick to the 52. if any dq light armour item i would want is the lower 60 wrist, that give -interval. but that's for archers.

Arzalea - Sanctuary

Well, the OP might be interested in looking how my stats are doing at the moment with the equipment I am wearing, which is all LA. I didn't really choose to go Legendary until way after I had already bought TT mats for most of my armors (I didn't realize you didn't need to decomp the 80s to make the 90s, oh well)...

I thought it was pretty fun tinkering with this little program..

Edit: Okay I got it now I think.. lol
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=78227cddf1dbba60

Forp - Heavens Tear

forp at 83:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=50ffa5350a3e2e84

on a side note, i'm really hungry.

Arzalea - Sanctuary

Wow... I'm drooling over your rings right about now....

Forp - Heavens Tear

you too? should've been there when i got them as drops on mold runs lol

Arzalea - Sanctuary

No, I'm glad I wasn't there... That would have been much too agonizing..

Forp - Heavens Tear

you didn't see the one we gave the mage. she has a -9% chan ring now lol

Arzalea - Sanctuary

I'm just going to eat my sandwich now... It's the only bit of happiness I can cradle at the moment.. -stroke-

Forp - Heavens Tear

if it makes you feel better, i worked my **** of to get those items. i had 2 suicidal warriors and a very.. well geared archer. i was the only healerb:sad

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Me at 81 http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1d49f0dad115e893

=P

Usually I replace the -Chan stuff with +hp and +phy defence but I like -chan xD

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

This is what I would want to be like at 60 if some of you think there need improvements make them.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=674173328d7c5739

The only thing is price of all this.

upgraded

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e784ae665188a5fc

Balthier - Dreamweaver

A little more time to assemble that setup would've served you well.

The belt you've equiped is not available to clerics, the robe is close to impossible to attain at lvl 60 (I only have 4.2k rep at my level) and both the robe and the leggings are only available to Venomancers, and why on earth would you want to have a +phy atk ring? The Crystal Headress is also kinda bad, Id much rather have a regular hat with +hp/phy def stats. I'd change it for you, but I can't be bothered to take the time since I'm at work.

Try to tweak it again following my tips;-)

Edit: Found some more. Change the robe to a regular one with +hp and sockets, add + mag, atk/crit/chan to your rings, I've used the level 59 boots mold: Flameboots of intensity (still using those) who are much better than the quest boots, and add +phy def on your necklace.

I think that about covers it:-)

Balthier - Dreamweaver

And to the OP. I went a very long time pondering about going for LA, but after hours on hours using that site I couldn't find any LA setup that were similar/better in total than an equal or cheaper robe setup. At 60 it might be close, but when you're closing 80 and upwards, the LA setup is just horrible compared to the robe. The phy def gain is minimal, the HP is worse and the average damage (including crit) is horrible.

I am happy I took the time to compare before making a decision, seeing as a restat would've been costly. I wish you the best tho, but I'm sorry to say that LA is not really an option for a cleric. Not even in pvp after level 80.

MntMan - Lost City

While it has been interesting to see other people's set ups my intent was to have people try and run reasonability tests at 70 and 80 of what was a better build. Balthier concludes that Arcane is better then LA at lvl 80 onwards.

Anyone come up with something different? From my original post on the thread it does look like at 70 LA may be better, but as you get up to 80 and beyond maybe a restat will be necessary to get to Arcane. Come on LA clerics out there. Prove me wrong. Don't just show me your builds, but show the comparison in arcane at your level and why you think your build is better.

If I do restat I'm assuming it would be cheaper to do so now at level 66 then at 80 when more points need to be moved. Or should I enjoy LA now while it's better then restat at 80?

Forp - Heavens Tear

we're not mages. light isn't exactly.. a bonus to us. they have stone barrier to make the defense worth it. we don't get that. if we did, light would be an excellent build.

people go light armoured for the small +crit rate and more "survivability". survivability that we, as clerics, get from vit. ontop of it adding defenses all around, it gives us hp. hence my build.

i'm a healer in belial/illusion parties, simply because i built myself to be able to take a lot of hits without dying. light armour can't do that, and you'll never see one invited to these parties. i'm probably 1 of maybe 5 clerics in heaven's tear that can survive belial's "1-shot" move.

Arzalea - Sanctuary

MntMan - Lost City wrote: »

Come on LA clerics out there. Prove me wrong. Don't just show me your builds, but show the comparison in arcane at your level and why you think your build is better.

I don't have any numbers, but I'm pretty sure a hybrid robe build is better than LA for clerics, simply because of the overwhelming number of people in favor of it. Plus, it is what 'everybody else' does. I just don't like to be like 'everybody else'.

It's just a game. Do what feels right. Do you want to optimize your character's usefulness? My advice is to restat while it's cheap to robes. Good luck.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i'm a healer in belial/illusion parties, simply because i built myself to be able to take a lot of hits without dying.

Well forp, after looking at your stats, I must say I'm jealous of your hp b:surrender. You've clearly taken time to choose the right gear that compliments your build, but I've found not all vit clerics do. Many of them simply rely on the cheap hp points they get from the build and don't worry enough about pdef at all.

My char right now: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=30dadccb5c5c1afa

Most clerics that I've worked with my lvl have that much hp or less, and they sure do not have as much pdef as I do. In TT squad situations, I've always been the person who puts up BB, because the little bit I lack in hp is made up in def. I will admit I haven't done belial or anything known to be INSANELY challenging. I have done soulbanisher 1-3 though, back when i had about 300 less hp points on me.

What I've noticed is that clerics in general that do not put much effort into gear can't rise to the challenge in tough squad situations. Putting in vit isn't what solves all your problems instantly; making sure your armor and build doesn't have shortcomings will. I will agree that if everyone tried to maximize their gear, then vit build wins. But I'm proud of what I've been able to do as a LA cleric, and I figure I'll restat at 90. It's viable until then, imo. The legendary stuff you get in the late 70s is nice enough to carry you over.

Aeneas - Harshlands

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

forp at 83:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=50ffa5350a3e2e84

Me unbuffed
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8281/unbuffed.jpg

Let's compare
I have 800 more physical resistance
You have 200 more HP
We do essentially the same damage
I have 4% more crit
Your resistances are 700-1000 more then mine (with the exception of wood)


Because of the nature of diminishing returns in terms of resistance, when buffed I'll have close to 10% more physical defense at the cost of 4-5% less elemental resistance. You have a couple hundred more HP then me, but we do the same damage and I crit 66% more then you do.

Gosh, I guess Light Armor is clearly inferior b:surrender

Stats buffed btw
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4089/buffedi.jpg

Forp - Heavens Tear

let's overlook the 4 levels and the gears you were probably given by your guild and pretend it doesn'tmakes a difference.

it does.

i worked for mine, and when compared to an equally geared light build, my stats are superior.

and no, you don't crit 66% more. you crit 4% more.

Aeneas - Harshlands

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

let's overlook the 4 levels and the gears you were probably given by your guild and pretend it doesn'tmakes a difference.

Your gear is extremely nice and you're justifiably proud of it. You're refined to +3 on your armor and +5 on your sword. You have excellent mods for your build. You even refined your ornaments. We're very closely geared. My guild hasn't provided anything yet. When I hit 90 and get absolutely insane 90 gear, that'll be a different story.

The levels are marginal. It's 20 more stat points.

and no, you don't crit 66% more. you crit 4% more.

10% is 66% more then 6%.

6 * 1.66 (166%) = 10

I crit 66% more then you. Not in total.

Balthier - Dreamweaver

If you would be so kind as to post your setup in the ecatomb site like the others, I'd be a happy guy. Seems you've found a gear setup that works for LA. I'd imagine you've refined you're gear quite a bit to get that much HP, so it'd be interesting to see how expensive your gear is.

I can't really know if LA is good at that level, without knowing how much more expensive it is to get there compared to a robe setup.

Thanx in advance.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

Aeneas are you going to restat at 90 or stick with light?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I upgrade mine and I am not sure what you get in quests later on if there is any good stuff then I would keep it.