Not even a warning?

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear

Sorry Gm for bringing this up a bit ago, please delete/move thread at your convenience. ;D

HuntresPrime - Lost City

well your asking for a bit MUCH. in my opinion that is.
the gms have to monitor 5 servers. that hose about. (random number 30k)+ people each server. not only that. they have to constantly check hacker reports. look for botters. and eat their doughnuts
then they have to re run it those steps. this time helping people that are stuck. ban griefing players and also chat with their friends.

now. doing this 3 times a day in just 4 short hours is tiresome and heck they will let a few slip though and just catch them later.
i dont think they have the time to search EVERY cat shop in a laggy west arch.

again this is my opinion.

there will always be evil just as their will always be good. you cant have it any other way

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear

HuntresPrime - Lost City wrote: »

well your asking for a bit MUCH. in my opinion that is.
the gms have to monitor 5 servers. that hose about. (random number 30k)+ people each server. not only that. they have to constantly check hacker reports. look for botters. and eat their doughnuts
then they have to re run it those steps. this time helping people that are stuck. ban griefing players and also chat with their friends.

now. doing this 3 times a day in just 4 short hours is tiresome and heck they will let a few slip though and just catch them later.
i dont think they have the time to search EVERY cat shop in a laggy west arch.

again this is my opinion.

there will always be evil just as their will always be good. you cant have it any other way

Oh nono, not catshop. People who miss a 0 or something are SOL, that's asking WAY too much to track down whoever bought it. No, I'm asking in TRADES, where someone will promise an item for trade, and will give you an item looking EXACTLY like the icon, and if you forget to check you basically got scammed in your face. You know the person's name, you know the item then gave you, you know exactly when the trade took place. I mean that, because all you have to do is send screenshots of the item/name/conversation. I mean I get where you're coming from, GM is a hard job. But at the same time if you have all the evidence ready and waiting shouldn't you be able to have them warned for it?

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

read your local TOS :O.

but remember the fine print.

PWE may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within PWE's discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Website.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Unless the player(s) in question violate some actionable part of the ToS there isn't much that can be done. Like if someone is KSing purposefully (either because they are self important or don't like you) even after you ask them to stop, it isn't actionable unless they resort to verbally assaulting you, and then they won't be actioned for KSing, but for violating the language part of the ToS.

IMHO, the reason for this is that KSing someone and scamming someone via Cat Shops is a very very gray area while the language usage part of the ToS isn't as much of a gray area and easier to enforce.

Ikurei - Dreamweaver

I'd say it's reasonable. The person's actions obviously weren't a mistake (at least I assume it wasn't even though I don't know the details of what happened) which means he (or she, but I'll continue to refer to the person as "he") purposely ripped off money/coins/items from you with malicious intent.

If you had proof of what happened then there should be no reason for why they don't at least give him a warning. Not having proof is understandable because then it would only be hearsay which should never be used as a reason for punishing someone.

And the fact is that saying that the player should have been more careful is no excuse for not punishing scammers. Everyone makes mistakes or is in a rush and so isn't as careful as usual.

I get the feeling I'm about to get flamed for this.

HuntresPrime - Lost City

be honest here. are you willing to fill your HD with screenies with ALL your trades? also unless he ADMITS to scamming him self. all he needs to claim is
''opps i pressed 0 too many times cause i was in a hurry''
or opps i thought that was the rite item. + above comment.

the gms wont go Too far into this issue unless others report the SAME player doing the SAME type of scamming. other wise its just your word vs theirs.

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

read your local TOS :O.

but remember the fine print.

Ah, ty for posting the fine print. I just do a general scan of the ToS(I mean come on, reading ALL that?). Well, that's kind of what I mean. Having all the evidence and such. I talked to two GMs who were online and said to them I have screenshots, I have the name, I even have the item. And no reply. I mean I tried very hard to make their job easier so they could warn this guy and they didn't take action. You'd think in making their job easier to do, they would help you. b:cry

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

well, you have to consider, when did you send in this ticket? its not like youre instantly gunna get retribution, they have to investigate, and get to your ticket first >_>.

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear

Ikurei - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd say it's reasonable. The person's actions obviously weren't a mistake (at least I assume it wasn't even though I don't know the details of what happened) which means he (or she, but I'll continue to refer to the person as "he") purposely ripped off money/coins/items from you with malicious intent.

If you had proof of what happened then there should be no reason for why they don't at least give him a warning. Not having proof is understandable because then it would only be hearsay which should never be used as a reason for punishing someone.

And the fact is that saying that the player should have been more careful is no excuse for not punishing scammers. Everyone makes mistakes or is in a rush and so isn't as careful as usual.

I get the feeling I'm about to get flamed for this.

I'm not going to flame you at least, cause what you say is very understandable. And yes, it was maliciously because they promised a silver order and put in a prince's belt which has the exact same icon. I said this and they ran off.

HuntresPrime - Lost City wrote: »

be honest here. are you willing to fill your HD with screenies with ALL your trades? also unless he ADMITS to scamming him self. all he needs to claim is
''opps i pressed 0 too many times cause i was in a hurry''
or opps i thought that was the rite item. + above comment.

the gms wont go Too far into this issue unless others report the SAME player doing the SAME type of scamming. other wise its just your word vs theirs.

Well, considering after I called him a jerk and so on and he ran off and blocked me.. I'd say that's not admittance, but definitely not correcting what had just happened. If I missed a 0 I'd never bother with it, but if I had accidently traded someone an item worth 300c instead of an item worth 300k, I'd be nice and correct it. But that's just me..

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

well, you have to consider, when did you send in this ticket? its not like youre instantly gunna get retribution, they have to investigate, and get to your ticket first >_>.

I suppose in the next year or so they'll get to it. <.<
Mainly it was me online five seconds after screaming for a gm in WC. b:laugh

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

exactly, send in a ticket, and wait for your turn. WC doesnt solve your problems. tickets do :P your thread is just starting to sound like conclusion jumping.

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

exactly, send in a ticket, and wait for your turn. WC doesnt solve your problems. tickets do :P your thread is just starting to sound like conclusion jumping.

^-^
I started it because both GMs online in the game told me they couldn't do anything about it and when I asked if they could at least give a warning, they didn't reply. They didn't tell me to send in a ticket even when I was talking to them, so it pretty much seemed like they weren't all that interested in doing anything about it anyways. But then again, someone posted the ToS and it pretty much says "If we deem it necessary we will", and I find that a kind of downer, since I believe all scams are kind of necessary to look into. xD But that's just me.

HuntresPrime - Lost City

some words of advice.

when life gives you lemons. make apple pie.

(respective god here) hates ugly.

its not always the (input race/ethnicity here) fault

buy in bulk

Do when others CANT

Dont hate the player. hate the game xD

Karma. it Does exist. otherwise i wouldnt have won a SEXY panda on $10 bucks alone xD

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

basically, the GM in game 'cant' do anything right then and there. just submit the ticket and let em deal with it!

Ikurei - Dreamweaver

After reading what happened, I guess it could have been a mistake and he just realized it when you brought it up (not likely). In that case he probably just got greedy and decided to run off with the unexpected extra cash.

There's really not much you can do other than send in that ticket like Tear said. That and hope PWE decides it's worth their time to do something about it.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

basically, the GM in game 'cant' do anything right then and there. just submit the ticket and let em deal with it!

Wait, they can't? Everyone in game makes them out to be some sort of all powerful deities who control life, death, TW, drop rates, etc.

Ugh, now I feel bad about saying the GMs don't give a damn about the players.

HuntresPrime - Lost City

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

basically, the GM in game 'cant' do anything right then and there. just submit the ticket and let em deal with it!

if the ingame GM cant handle it what makes you think others will. at least an in game GM could have tele'd to the player and say. STOP.
the only possible thing a gm via ticket can do is send them an email or an in game mail and ask them nicely to stop. but then again. is that really doing anything. its like when America votes. 1 person doesnt really make a difference so why bother with that person. more so over a trivial matter such as this

actually i tend to lol when i hear people getting scammed when XXXXX amount when the item they sought was only XXX amount.
me. i put all my mony into bank (round to nearest 10k) so the most i can have on me at a time is 9.9k. and if i see something in the shop i want. i just go to the bank. withdraw that Exact amount. and buy it. ive done that in all my games and had no problem what so ever being scammed. in fact the worse thing i have ever done was. rushed to buy XXX item for XXX amount just to look in auction 5 min later and see it for XX amount.

Ellestor - Heavens Tear

A small correction here, there's actually a few tiers of Game Masters. There's the customer care representatives (CCR's) who answer basic quests and assist with minor tasks and errors (Ex: ruikong, BearClaw, etc) then there are the Senior Game Masters who help with larger issues (Bots, exploits, etc.) those have more power and can assist to a degree with issues of that nature. (Ex: katehxiao - not sure if that's spelled right but their alias used to be xiaoxiao until they were reassigned.) And finally you have the Lead Game Masters this game masters have commands of the highest level that allow modifications to the game script (NOT CODING) to an extent. Some of these are Kantorek, Sihndra, FrankieRaye, Ironman, etc.

That makes up the In-game division, next comes billing support, these are the CCR's responsible for issues with account payments, zen, and information connected to the account that has monetary relevance. Some of these include Shnuggles for website and Richard (Office employee).

Next you have the Ticketing Response Team, these are the ones to talk to for larger issues, while they don't have the ability to modify game programing they can relay issues to the development team who can repair, exclude, include, or reverse engineer where needed to resolve larger issues. They also are in charge of handling issues of a large nature (hijacked accounts, third party programs, item/character errors.)

And finally you have the Development and Debugging Teams, these are the people responsible for assisting and collaborating with the Development Teams in China to produce new content, create patches, release expansions, etc.

Each tier has it's own specialties and while one may not assist with what you need they can point you in the right direction to get your issue solved. As with any issue of tech support however, resolution can take time.

These are the basic stations of a game production company that I've noted from previous experience however they may have small differences.

(P.S. *Game Masters, Administrators, Moderators, etc. feel free to make any comments, changes, or otherwise to correct these statements as they may not be 100% accurate.)

Ikurei - Dreamweaver

Ellestor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A small correction here, there's actually a few tiers of Game Masters. There's the customer care representatives (CCR's) who answer basic quests and assist with minor tasks and errors (Ex: ruikong, BearClaw, etc) then there are the Senior Game Masters who help with larger issues (Bots, exploits, etc.) those have more power and can assist to a degree with issues of that nature. (Ex: katehxiao - not sure if that's spelled right but their alias used to be xiaoxiao until they were reassigned.) And finally you have the Lead Game Masters this game masters have commands of the highest level that allow modifications to the game script (NOT CODING) to an extent. Some of these are Kantorek, Sihndra, FrankieRaye, Ironman, etc.

That makes up the In-game division, next comes billing support, these are the CCR's responsible for issues with account payments, zen, and information connected to the account that has monetary relevance. Some of these include Shnuggles for website and Richard (Office employee).

Next you have the Ticketing Response Team, these are the ones to talk to for larger issues, while they don't have the ability to modify game programing they can relay issues to the development team who can repair, exclude, include, or reverse engineer where needed to resolve larger issues. They also are in charge of handling issues of a large nature (hijacked accounts, third party programs, item/character errors.)

And finally you have the Development and Debugging Teams, these are the people responsible for assisting and collaborating with the Development Teams in China to produce new content, create patches, release expansions, etc.

Each tier has it's own specialties and while one may not assist with what you need they can point you in the right direction to get your issue solved. As with any issue of tech support however, resolution can take time.

These are the basic stations of a game production company that I've noted from previous experience however they may have small differences.

(P.S. *Game Masters, Administrators, Moderators, etc. feel free to make any comments, changes, or otherwise to correct these statements as they may not be 100% accurate.)

My brain hurts. b:faint

The basic gist of this is that some GMs hold more power than others and are in charge of different areas of the game, right?

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

HuntresPrime - Lost City wrote: »

if the ingame GM cant handle it what makes you think others will. at least an in game GM could have tele'd to the player and say. STOP.
the only possible thing a gm via ticket can do is send them an email or an in game mail and ask them nicely to stop. but then again. is that really doing anything. its like when America votes. 1 person doesnt really make a difference so why bother with that person. more so over a trivial matter such as this

actually i tend to lol when i hear people getting scammed when XXXXX amount when the item they sought was only XXX amount.
me. i put all my mony into bank (round to nearest 10k) so the most i can have on me at a time is 9.9k. and if i see something in the shop i want. i just go to the bank. withdraw that Exact amount. and buy it. ive done that in all my games and had no problem what so ever being scammed. in fact the worse thing i have ever done was. rushed to buy XXX item for XXX amount just to look in auction 5 min later and see it for XX amount.

well an in game GM cant just go off the word of one person too. they need to investigate the matter first, tis not as if its the ingames job to be like a cop, and go to where hes needed ASAP once dispatch gives another complaint, theres just way too many players and not enough GMs to do that. not only that, if just whining on WC got her problem ahead of all the ticketed problems, thatd look like favoritism, theres alot of junk you need to consider before just making base statements lol

HuntresPrime - Lost City

Ellestor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A small correction here, there's actually a few tiers of Game Masters. There's the customer care representatives (CCR's) who answer basic quests and assist with minor tasks and errors (Ex: ruikong, BearClaw, etc) then there are the Senior Game Masters who help with larger issues (Bots, exploits, etc.) those have more power and can assist to a degree with issues of that nature. (Ex: katehxiao - not sure if that's spelled right but their alias used to be xiaoxiao until they were reassigned.) And finally you have the Lead Game Masters this game masters have commands of the highest level that allow modifications to the game script (NOT CODING) to an extent. Some of these are Kantorek, Sihndra, FrankieRaye, Ironman, etc.

That makes up the In-game division, next comes billing support, these are the CCR's responsible for issues with account payments, zen, and information connected to the account that has monetary relevance. Some of these include Shnuggles for website and Richard (Office employee).

Next you have the Ticketing Response Team, these are the ones to talk to for larger issues, while they don't have the ability to modify game programing they can relay issues to the development team who can repair, exclude, include, or reverse engineer where needed to resolve larger issues. They also are in charge of handling issues of a large nature (hijacked accounts, third party programs, item/character errors.)

And finally you have the Development and Debugging Teams, these are the people responsible for assisting and collaborating with the Development Teams in China to produce new content, create patches, release expansions, etc.

Each tier has it's own specialties and while one may not assist with what you need they can point you in the right direction to get your issue solved. As with any issue of tech support however, resolution can take time.

These are the basic stations of a game production company that I've noted from previous experience however they may have small differences.

(P.S. *Game Masters, Administrators, Moderators, etc. feel free to make any comments, changes, or otherwise to correct these statements as they may not be 100% accurate.)

well said. b:victory b:flower

ShylahArista - Dreamweaver

Oh nono, not catshop. People who miss a 0 or something are SOL, that's asking WAY too much to track down whoever bought it. No, I'm asking in TRADES, where someone will promise an item for trade, and will give you an item looking EXACTLY like the icon, and if you forget to check you basically got scammed in your face. You know the person's name, you know the item then gave you, you know exactly when the trade took place. I mean that, because all you have to do is send screenshots of the item/name/conversation. I mean I get where you're coming from, GM is a hard job. But at the same time if you have all the evidence ready and waiting shouldn't you be able to have them warned for it?

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I fail to see the difference between failing to check for a zero, and failing to check and see if the item you're trading for is the correct one, especially when a lot of items look the same/similar. And there are other threads on this fourm warning about similar scams.

I started it because both GMs online in the game told me they couldn't do anything about it and when I asked if they could at least give a warning, they didn't reply

You admitted in the first post it's your fault. Why would the GMs be able to do anything? It's your word against the other guys. Plus, if you admit it's your fault, why would the other guy need to be punished? That's like saying, "Yes teacher, I cheated on the test, but he should get in trouble too for leaving it where I could see it." It just doesn't make sense. You've admitted it was your FUBAR, so leave it at that and let it go, and take the knowledge with you so you're prepared in the future.

cronoslave

Sorry but if the GM is giving out "warnings" for this kind of nonsense it will just make the GMs look stupid.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I got jipped(my fault), but I took the time to ask GMs if it's possible that they could do anything about it. I didn't mean get my items back or reimburse me or anything like that, I'm genuinely interested as to why they can't warn the person who scams someone in game and/or suspend them. I mean sure, it's their fault they got scammed because they trusted someone and paid for it, but am I wrong to think not warning or doing anything about it is stupid? Because seriously, these kinds of people ruin the game for others and genuinely create a bad gaming experience. It's just like ks'ers, I feel like it's not something that should go unwarned. If there is no consequences for scamming people, what stops them? Nothing. The guy ran off after ripping me off and he doesn't even get a warning? I didn't feel like playing for a while and my entire gaming experienced was tainted, but I was not angry that I lost money. I'm angry our so called protectors won't do jack about it. Yes, I know, MY FAULT. But what I'm upset is the fact people get away without so much as a slap on the wrist.
So, am I'm way off line, or is this a reasonable request?

So you are complaining that the GMs are not doing anything, even though the other player did not violate any rules? Game Masters (GMs) job is to make sure people follow the TOS, and to assist when people have problems with bugs (like getting stuck and being unable to move/recall etc), it is not their job to babysit players.

HOWEVER, you have just violated the TOS and the forums rules.

Please read section 8 and 18. Also read the NOTE at the end of section 21.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=63291

KikiKitten - Heavens Tear

ShylahArista - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You admitted in the first post it's your fault. Why would the GMs be able to do anything? It's your word against the other guys. Plus, if you admit it's your fault, why would the other guy need to be punished? That's like saying, "Yes teacher, I cheated on the test, but he should get in trouble too for leaving it where I could see it." It just doesn't make sense. You've admitted it was your FUBAR, so leave it at that and let it go, and take the knowledge with you so you're prepared in the future.

cronoslave wrote: »

Sorry but if the GM is giving out "warnings" for this kind of nonsense it will just make the GMs look stupid.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So you are complaining that the GMs are not doing anything, even though the other player did not violate any rules? Game Masters (GMs) job is to make sure people follow the TOS, and to assist when people have problems with bugs (like getting stuck and being unable to move/recall etc), it is not their job to babysit players.

HOWEVER, you have just violated the TOS and the forums rules.

Please read section 8 and 18. Also read the NOTE at the end of section 21.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=63291

I guess to answer all your questions, here is the answer from ToS:

Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 10 above, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

Whether it was my fault of not. So Ice, he did violate rules and yes I did indeed violate 18 on ToS. Sorry, like I said before I scan through that stuff most of the time, with all the stuff I download I just get careless. So I'm indeed sorry for bringing this up on the forum whoever controls this section GMs, and if you want delete the thread. b:thanks