Hybrid Fist/User Guide
AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
Posts: 1,413 Arc User
Hybrid Spear/Fist User Guide
Okay. So here is a little guide I made. This is not intended to go over everything. Just information I would like to share cause I see the same questions a lot.
Please fill free to help me improve this by making suggestions. Otherwise known as constructive criticism.
This is the only true stat Hybrid build I could think of other then Axe/Sword. But that's a different subject.
The abilities you get from both of these trees is great. So here I go.
All BMs should stat for heavy armor. (5str every two levels. This is the minimum requirement)
If you are going to go with Fists as main you should start your stating like this. 5str 4 dex 1 vit every two levels. (keep in mind a lot of bms cap vitality at a certain point. This is dependent on server. Gear and play style preference.)
If you will be using Spear as main a modified build is suggested. 5str 3 dex 2 vit. This will give you a good boost in Vitality at the earlier levels. Which for some is much needed Until your vitality is around 30 to 40. Then modify build to 5str 5dex every two levels until you meet fist requirement again. ( Remember its a player that makes a toon good. Please keep an open mind and adjust your stats as you see fit.) Then resume the the 5/4/1. And if you've capped your vitality at any point you can either do a 5/5 or 6/4. The 5/5 will give you an extra crit every 20 levels, with that being said personally I think the 6/4 offers a bit more. Every 1 strength adds attack power increasing your DPS with both weapons. Here is the formula (1+ ((2*STR/3)/100) + MAS) * (LVL + Phys Atk) And it will eventually open up the possibility to use axes closer to your level. (As you play your BM this will all make more sense)
Ok...this is how I would play that build...As a hybrid Fist and Spear user. You would use your fists for PvE 1v1 and latter levels use them in TT/FB runs. They get great DPS and can help cancel TT/FB boss's AoE attacks. And you will have the stats to use spear, you will use your sparks too use your spears ultimate attack on the above stated bosses. (really all bosses) and by grabbing select skills in each tree you will balance out your fist BM weaknesses with the Spear tree's strengths.
Its highly possible to run a dual build starting as early as your 30's when your fb spear starts to become weak. (I would personally still wait till higher levels and run the spear build till you really needed your shadowless kick skill)
There is a legendary lvl 40 spear you can forge that does not require a mold that has great stats. A lot of spear users use their fb 19 spear until they make that one.
There is a level 30 legendary fist that is nice too.
Level 3 Draw Blood
-- When using fists this skill will really not be needed. (use your own discretion I am not a fist user this may help out with your DPS) As a axe/hammer user I found this skill to be useful up till the 50's range. And use it occasionally when 1v1' opponents with extra def/health and on bosses. This is a necessary skill when using the spear route you will want to max this skill in order to stack your bleeds.
Level 13 Aura of the Golden Bell
-- Increased Phys Def, Bonus!
Max this skill ASAP
Level 19 Aeolian Blade
-- this will come in handy for you because of the possible stun. Nice damage too. Max this skill. Its a great opener against opponents. And a necessary stun chance for your arsenal.
Level 23 Roar of the Pride
-- another stun, an AoE stun. If you ever played with me I use this all the time. Its awesome. It will always be necessary for you when in a party in dungeon runs or TT's. Or if you do TW's. Necessary for AoE grinding. Level when you can afford it. try to get it close to/or maxed.
Level 29 Diamond Sutra
-- This is your very own Blademaster heal yourself skill. Maxing this skill is unnecessary at early levels. Most of the healing comes from the 20% jump. Level as you see fit. Mine is at 5. (I am level 74)
Level 34 Fan of Flames
-- AoE. You will want to level this when you start to AoE grind with spear not a priority AoE. Level when you have spare SP. (Low priority)
Level 44 Drake Sweep
-- another AoE. You will want to level this when you start to AoE grind not a priority AoE. Level when you have spare SP. (low Priority)
Fist users do not really need skills other then shadowless kick. If you've gone with fists as your main all you will really need is the above stated skills and mastery for that weapon path tree
As a spear user you will most likely find skills more helpful as they have more uses in different situations.
Now on to fist skills. Since I am suggesting a Hybrid weapon user. We will be trying to save some SP points so you can get the most bang for your buck..
Please understand that a fists standard attack is what makes it good. Skill spamming is unnecessary and a waste of time (dps) and mp for a fist BM.
Lvl 29 Vacuous Palm -
Leave at level 1
Lvl 39 Shadowless kick -
leave at level 1. You will be using this skill for its canceling ability as an opener attack on magic mobs. And eventually in TT runs to cancel boss aoe's. If a pure fist user and you use this skill a lot as an opener you might but a few levels on it just for the extra damage. But thats a personal decision that should be weighed in with other factors. Such as sacrificing the SP you could use for your Farstrike... ( but you will never cancel as well as a barb. Your cool down is just too long.)
Lvl 49 Cyclone Heel -
This skill is an aoe skill. And its added affect is what helps make you a DPS monster towards endgame. Max at latter levels (70 + )when the attack speed boost helps. Other wise level as you see fit. ( For fist user semi- priority skill) you can ignore it if using spear as main. Level at endgame (90's)
lvl 59 Drake's Breath Bash -
If you have gone the spear fist hybrid you won't need this skill IMO.
Fist mastery - Level this is your #1 priority skill for fists.
Now on to the Spear skills. Since Fists aren't skill dependent you should/will have sp to buy up some Spear skills, hypothetically speaking.
Level 29 Piercing Winds
-A BM will need to attain level 1 to get other skills. You might need for AoE grinding (it does cost a spark to use). Lyndura (level 89 BM Spear user) suggests leaving it at level 2 for awhile. (Anyways you will most likely be saving your spark for other skills) Since you will still be soloing a lot at this point level 1 is probably best for awhile.
Level 39 Farstrike
-This skill is powerful and ranged. I would invest some levels in this skill. If I had this skill I would use it for many things. I would use this skill to pull aggro from a luring veno. Or a creature trying to run away from you. (Especially air mobs) Or an add that got by and was going after a cleric. (This is a Spear priority skill. The damage output for this skill is great)
Level 49 Meteor Rush
-This skill will allow a BM to get a breather. Its a mass knock-back (AoE) skill. Useful in many circumstances...taking too much damage and Roar of Pride is on cool down...knock back....squishes getting attacked....Roar and knock back...etc..etc.. Level when you can afford it. (semi - Priority skill) This will be needed for AoE grinding.
Level 59 Glacial Spike
-Now a second spark is available and when using fists the Sparks will be used for eruption (when solo). But in groups a BM will find themselves using it for this skill. This will allow the whole group to capitalize on the effect this skill inflicts. (In TT's this will let Veno's pets and other members deal a good deal more damage. Not worth it to use sparks for an eruption when you can get more out of your sparks as a group with this skill.) Expensive Skill I would keep it maxed. At least level as you can afford it.
Special note: All Spear AoE skills are linear. Meaning they attack in a fan like spray a certain distance in front of your BM.
Spear Mastery - I think it depends on how much you find yourself using the spear. Level as you see fit.( I would keep it maxed. But then again I would play this build as a Spear/Fist build. Not Fist/Spear.)
Well...I hope I have entertained you all with my imagined hybrid.
I will be adding a section on Genies.
Genies. For fist users we are speed dependent dps, and genies can help with that quite a lot.
There are two skills in particular that are recommended to get immediately.
1) Wind Shield - (3 metal affinity) not only does it decrease damage taken, it increases your attack speed by 10% for 8 seconds with a 1 second cool down. GET THIS IMMEDIATELY, it will up your dps like nothing else. Leave this one at level 1 though unless you really want a high def boost.
2) Relentless Courage - (2 wood, 1 fire, 2 earth) At max skill level it will add 30% attack speed +1% for every 20 genie dex. Now this skill is great but not at the same time. It still only lasts 8 seconds, but the cool down is 30 seconds, so not really spam-able, not to mention the energy cost gets quite high (155 per use at level 10 iirc)
Wind Shield has been recommended most of the time since its spam-able.
I will be updating this guide more. And I am looking at re-writing the whole thing to make it more friendly to newer players.
Okay. So here is a little guide I made. This is not intended to go over everything. Just information I would like to share cause I see the same questions a lot.
Please fill free to help me improve this by making suggestions. Otherwise known as constructive criticism.
This is the only true stat Hybrid build I could think of other then Axe/Sword. But that's a different subject.
The abilities you get from both of these trees is great. So here I go.
All BMs should stat for heavy armor. (5str every two levels. This is the minimum requirement)
If you are going to go with Fists as main you should start your stating like this. 5str 4 dex 1 vit every two levels. (keep in mind a lot of bms cap vitality at a certain point. This is dependent on server. Gear and play style preference.)
If you will be using Spear as main a modified build is suggested. 5str 3 dex 2 vit. This will give you a good boost in Vitality at the earlier levels. Which for some is much needed Until your vitality is around 30 to 40. Then modify build to 5str 5dex every two levels until you meet fist requirement again. ( Remember its a player that makes a toon good. Please keep an open mind and adjust your stats as you see fit.) Then resume the the 5/4/1. And if you've capped your vitality at any point you can either do a 5/5 or 6/4. The 5/5 will give you an extra crit every 20 levels, with that being said personally I think the 6/4 offers a bit more. Every 1 strength adds attack power increasing your DPS with both weapons. Here is the formula (1+ ((2*STR/3)/100) + MAS) * (LVL + Phys Atk) And it will eventually open up the possibility to use axes closer to your level. (As you play your BM this will all make more sense)
Ok...this is how I would play that build...As a hybrid Fist and Spear user. You would use your fists for PvE 1v1 and latter levels use them in TT/FB runs. They get great DPS and can help cancel TT/FB boss's AoE attacks. And you will have the stats to use spear, you will use your sparks too use your spears ultimate attack on the above stated bosses. (really all bosses) and by grabbing select skills in each tree you will balance out your fist BM weaknesses with the Spear tree's strengths.
Its highly possible to run a dual build starting as early as your 30's when your fb spear starts to become weak. (I would personally still wait till higher levels and run the spear build till you really needed your shadowless kick skill)
There is a legendary lvl 40 spear you can forge that does not require a mold that has great stats. A lot of spear users use their fb 19 spear until they make that one.
There is a level 30 legendary fist that is nice too.
Level 3 Draw Blood
-- When using fists this skill will really not be needed. (use your own discretion I am not a fist user this may help out with your DPS) As a axe/hammer user I found this skill to be useful up till the 50's range. And use it occasionally when 1v1' opponents with extra def/health and on bosses. This is a necessary skill when using the spear route you will want to max this skill in order to stack your bleeds.
Level 13 Aura of the Golden Bell
-- Increased Phys Def, Bonus!
Max this skill ASAP
Level 19 Aeolian Blade
-- this will come in handy for you because of the possible stun. Nice damage too. Max this skill. Its a great opener against opponents. And a necessary stun chance for your arsenal.
Level 23 Roar of the Pride
-- another stun, an AoE stun. If you ever played with me I use this all the time. Its awesome. It will always be necessary for you when in a party in dungeon runs or TT's. Or if you do TW's. Necessary for AoE grinding. Level when you can afford it. try to get it close to/or maxed.
Level 29 Diamond Sutra
-- This is your very own Blademaster heal yourself skill. Maxing this skill is unnecessary at early levels. Most of the healing comes from the 20% jump. Level as you see fit. Mine is at 5. (I am level 74)
Level 34 Fan of Flames
-- AoE. You will want to level this when you start to AoE grind with spear not a priority AoE. Level when you have spare SP. (Low priority)
Level 44 Drake Sweep
-- another AoE. You will want to level this when you start to AoE grind not a priority AoE. Level when you have spare SP. (low Priority)
Fist users do not really need skills other then shadowless kick. If you've gone with fists as your main all you will really need is the above stated skills and mastery for that weapon path tree
As a spear user you will most likely find skills more helpful as they have more uses in different situations.
Now on to fist skills. Since I am suggesting a Hybrid weapon user. We will be trying to save some SP points so you can get the most bang for your buck..
Please understand that a fists standard attack is what makes it good. Skill spamming is unnecessary and a waste of time (dps) and mp for a fist BM.
Lvl 29 Vacuous Palm -
Leave at level 1
Lvl 39 Shadowless kick -
leave at level 1. You will be using this skill for its canceling ability as an opener attack on magic mobs. And eventually in TT runs to cancel boss aoe's. If a pure fist user and you use this skill a lot as an opener you might but a few levels on it just for the extra damage. But thats a personal decision that should be weighed in with other factors. Such as sacrificing the SP you could use for your Farstrike... ( but you will never cancel as well as a barb. Your cool down is just too long.)
Lvl 49 Cyclone Heel -
This skill is an aoe skill. And its added affect is what helps make you a DPS monster towards endgame. Max at latter levels (70 + )when the attack speed boost helps. Other wise level as you see fit. ( For fist user semi- priority skill) you can ignore it if using spear as main. Level at endgame (90's)
lvl 59 Drake's Breath Bash -
If you have gone the spear fist hybrid you won't need this skill IMO.
Fist mastery - Level this is your #1 priority skill for fists.
Now on to the Spear skills. Since Fists aren't skill dependent you should/will have sp to buy up some Spear skills, hypothetically speaking.
Level 29 Piercing Winds
-A BM will need to attain level 1 to get other skills. You might need for AoE grinding (it does cost a spark to use). Lyndura (level 89 BM Spear user) suggests leaving it at level 2 for awhile. (Anyways you will most likely be saving your spark for other skills) Since you will still be soloing a lot at this point level 1 is probably best for awhile.
Level 39 Farstrike
-This skill is powerful and ranged. I would invest some levels in this skill. If I had this skill I would use it for many things. I would use this skill to pull aggro from a luring veno. Or a creature trying to run away from you. (Especially air mobs) Or an add that got by and was going after a cleric. (This is a Spear priority skill. The damage output for this skill is great)
Level 49 Meteor Rush
-This skill will allow a BM to get a breather. Its a mass knock-back (AoE) skill. Useful in many circumstances...taking too much damage and Roar of Pride is on cool down...knock back....squishes getting attacked....Roar and knock back...etc..etc.. Level when you can afford it. (semi - Priority skill) This will be needed for AoE grinding.
Level 59 Glacial Spike
-Now a second spark is available and when using fists the Sparks will be used for eruption (when solo). But in groups a BM will find themselves using it for this skill. This will allow the whole group to capitalize on the effect this skill inflicts. (In TT's this will let Veno's pets and other members deal a good deal more damage. Not worth it to use sparks for an eruption when you can get more out of your sparks as a group with this skill.) Expensive Skill I would keep it maxed. At least level as you can afford it.
Special note: All Spear AoE skills are linear. Meaning they attack in a fan like spray a certain distance in front of your BM.
Spear Mastery - I think it depends on how much you find yourself using the spear. Level as you see fit.( I would keep it maxed. But then again I would play this build as a Spear/Fist build. Not Fist/Spear.)
Well...I hope I have entertained you all with my imagined hybrid.
I will be adding a section on Genies.
Genies. For fist users we are speed dependent dps, and genies can help with that quite a lot.
There are two skills in particular that are recommended to get immediately.
1) Wind Shield - (3 metal affinity) not only does it decrease damage taken, it increases your attack speed by 10% for 8 seconds with a 1 second cool down. GET THIS IMMEDIATELY, it will up your dps like nothing else. Leave this one at level 1 though unless you really want a high def boost.
2) Relentless Courage - (2 wood, 1 fire, 2 earth) At max skill level it will add 30% attack speed +1% for every 20 genie dex. Now this skill is great but not at the same time. It still only lasts 8 seconds, but the cool down is 30 seconds, so not really spam-able, not to mention the energy cost gets quite high (155 per use at level 10 iirc)
Wind Shield has been recommended most of the time since its spam-able.
I will be updating this guide more. And I am looking at re-writing the whole thing to make it more friendly to newer players.
Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear on
0
Comments
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i am an axe bm and i side use fists. i am nearly full dext, till later restat...
Shadowless kick, Bosses i use it for, if i'd get a fist for my lvl(using annihilator for mana recovery) and max fist mastery(i left it at like lvl5, till it was cheap), i could use it for solo target grinding. But BMs dont do solo target grinding, becouse thats stupid when u can aoe.
For bosses its great, becouse it gets chi faster - i can drop heavens as fast as its cooldown over - insane DPS for the party - and for shadowless kick, which spares ur own charm mainly. With this low lvl weapon and low lvl mastery its DPS not far behind my axes(i have no XS, no refines thou), so with the more chi i can gather thats more DPS, less manapots and charmticks for the whole party.
For that u dont need to stat like a fist BM(having 120 dext with stuff at 69-70 when u start needing these, shouldnt be a problem for most BMs), nor u have to buy many skills.
For 1v1 fights it may be good at duel(not vs a decent enemy...imo), but for real pvp its useless. Some people sad fists will be godlike at 90+, but i see no reason for that. Not much more crits, and even ur crits are like normal hits with axes. Yea u hit more often, but thats nowhere to break the charm of even an EA or even for a well sharded mage.
Nor u have a full stunlock. Ur enemy will just kite u, even melees can dodge a few hits by stepping back a bit.
A well refined zerk fist with nice adds could be a beast, but nowhere to the axe or pole of same stats at pvp.
My viewpoint.Nullum crimen sine lege.0 -
Great guide!
After I read it I decided to give it a try, and it's working really well so far.
I don't know of any other fist/pole bm's so it's fun to do something uncommon.
A note: I am leaning towards being a fist as main but that might change as I just got my fb 19 pole.
Thanks for the idea!b:thanks
P.S. I will check back at a higher level to tell you how it is going, right now I am level 24, and it has been a real breeze.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Watch out for axes terroristsb:chuckle
They only believe on that weapon.
Good guide.0 -
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Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »For 1v1 fights it may be good at duel(not vs a decent enemy...imo), but for real pvp its useless. Some people sad fists will be godlike at 90+, but i see no reason for that. Not much more crits, and even ur crits are like normal hits with axes. Yea u hit more often, but thats nowhere to break the charm of even an EA or even for a well sharded mage.
Nor u have a full stunlock. Ur enemy will just kite u, even melees can dodge a few hits by stepping back a bit.
A well refined zerk fist with nice adds could be a beast, but nowhere to the axe or pole of same stats at pvp.
My viewpoint.
i kind of agree with you... partially though
fists have poor damage but your hits are quick so even without shadowless you have a decent chance of interrupting the target. it's quite poor against clerics and wizards but for archers you'll have every possible advantage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.0 -
Each hit from fists is low dmg but because of the speed it makes the dmg good. I've done pvp using both axes and fists. I find axes more useful because most of my pvp is in TW and normally I'm not the only one attacking people so the aoe's allow us to kill many instead of just 1. BUT I have use just fists in TW before and I kill a lot more people solo then with axes. The attack speed really makes the dmg add up fast on robe wearers.
I use all weapons (mostly fists and axes) and I really wouldn't recommend fists for pvp, but a good fist user will be just as useful, if not more so, then an axe BM.
For the guide itself, I honestly didn't find it useful. Partially because there are a lot of guides on skills already and partially because I don't really know what you're trying to explain. The title says "Hybrid Fist/user guide" but when I read it it came across as more of a spear guide, with fists on the side. It just seemed to me to be another opinion on what skills are good for what.
I love fists and would like for someone to write a good guide on them and there uses (I'm too lazy, lol). I think if you focused your guide more on fists then the hybrid part it would be more helpful to players and also more unique. atm it seems kinda bland but like you're on the right path to something good
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KhaosShadow - Sanctuary wrote: »Each hit from fists is low dmg but because of the speed it makes the dmg good. I've done pvp using both axes and fists. I find axes more useful because most of my pvp is in TW and normally I'm not the only one attacking people so the aoe's allow us to kill many instead of just 1. BUT I have use just fists in TW before and I kill a lot more people solo then with axes. The attack speed really makes the dmg add up fast on robe wearers.
I use all weapons (mostly fists and axes) and I really wouldn't recommend fists for pvp, but a good fist user will be just as useful, if not more so, then an axe BM.
For the guide itself, I honestly didn't find it useful. Partially because there are a lot of guides on skills already and partially because I don't really know what you're trying to explain. The title says "Hybrid Fist/user guide" but when I read it it came across as more of a spear guide, with fists on the side. It just seemed to me to be another opinion on what skills are good for what.
I love fists and would like for someone to write a good guide on them and there uses (I'm too lazy, lol). I think if you focused your guide more on fists then the hybrid part it would be more helpful to players and also more unique. atm it seems kinda bland but like you're on the right path to something good
The guide is meant as a hybrid build between Fists/Spears. Spears strengths are great at making up for the fists weakness's. i messed up the Title it should have read Hybrid Spear/Fist Guide.
Of course any guide would have what skills to use. Otherwise what good would the guide be.
Its been awhile but i have a bit to add and adjust to this guide. And will do so soon.Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I have started updating this guide.
I would appreciate as much information from Spear users and fist users as possible. Pure and hybrid builds.
I will take all the information given and create a new thread/guide. Please post experiences, theory's, and anything else you believe is relevant.
Thanks in advance.Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Add the damage formula.
(1+ ((2*STR/3)/100) + MAS) * (LVL + Phys Atk)
Every guide should have that, as less than 10% of the people seem to know how damage is actually calculated, yet still feel the need to make conjectures on weapon damage comparisons. Unless people know this, they don't deserve anyone listening to them.
Other thing to note:
Cyclone Heel. Tested on fake server. It does not work as nicely as it could when paired with pre-existing -interval adds on your gear. Lvl 3 or above is required to get an extra -.05 added on should you have -.1. At lvl 10, it has not added any more interval than it did at lvl 3, only the duration is longer. Maybe sage/demon version will actually add more, but since -interval gear will be higher at that lvl as well, it just might not have a worthwhile effect on attack speed as it would first seem.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Alright a few comments.
1) On my axe bm in the early levels I found draw blood to be useful to keep the dps going in that I could spam it, I always left it at level 1 though simply because the bleed just isn't good enough. For fist users however it is a complete waste of time to use it at any point, much like any other skill.
2) I agree on shadowless kick, level 1 is fine until such time as you can take it demon/sage then you can pump it up.
3) Cyclone Heel, again its really just a terrible aoe until higher levels when the attack speed increase hits at least 10%
4) The two spark fist aoe is such an epic fail, I say never get it unless you're like level 100+ and have maxed every other skill.
5) Genies. For fist users we are speed dependant dps, and genies can help with that quite alot. There are two skills in particular that I would recommend getting immediatly. 1) Wind Shield (3 metal affinity) not only does it decrease damage taken, it increases your attack speed by 10% for 8 seconds with a 1 second cooldown. GET THIS IMMEDIATLY, it will up your dps like nothing else. Leave this one at level 1 though unless you really want a high def boost. 2) Relentless Courage (2 wood, 1 fire, 2 earth) At max skill level it will add 30% attack speed +1% for every 20 genie dex. Now this skill is great but not at the same time. It still only lasts 8 seconds, but the cooldown is 30 seconds, so not really spammable, not to mention the energy cost gets quite high (155 per use at level 10 iirc) So this is more of a last ditch effort, I recommend Wind Shield most of the time since its spammable. If at all possible get these on a Zeal genie since it's default skill can be used to pull in case you can't find a veno for something.
6) Great base guide I suppose, but I still have to agree with khaos in that it needs work.I will not hesitate to beat you over the head with your own stupidity.
Yes I am a hypocrite.0 -
Updating is commencing thanks for the info. More is welcome and encouraged.
And as I said when its done. I am looking at re-writing the whole thing. Maybe with flashy colors for those with ADD......b:laughRetired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
nice guide, helped me make up on my mind on what weapons i want for my BM although im going to be a fist main simply because i think the fist weapons look awesome lol.Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.
Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)0
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