Atmos Strike!! Why? Why? Why?

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

For the life of me, I can not understand the logic behind Atmos strike. Why does it have a knockback? Why is the knockback so much that it puts the mob out of range for another skill like Spirit chaser. And why would someone who is primarily Sword have much of a use for this?

A BM's strength is its Pdef. Why send a mob into Magic attack range? Seems to me that this skill would be better suited with a bleed or a fanned AOE.

I know that Pole has a knockback too (Meteor Rush) and that skill too, is a little bit questionable, but, at least in the pole tree, your given more of a ranged attack set.

Just looking for banter, wondering what other Bm's thought of these skills and how they find them useful.

Michael - Harshlands

its a sword BM's 2nd strongest attack for pvp, and can actually 1 shot robes at certain stages of the game if its maxed

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

While I agree with the Damage the skill deals, I don't see the benefit with the knock back. That is where I feel the skill fails.

I found, in PvE, that it was best used as a finishing move, but timed wrong and you are left chasing.

mortie

Perhaps it isn't meant as a benefit, but to counter the 'great' damage it does.

Seablue - Sanctuary

I don't like it either. I'd even take slow over knockback. The damage is nice but the knockback totally ruined the pve aspect of it. On melee mobs you can just melee them to death. Why even bother using any skill.

It's uselessness in my mind ranked second only to mage bane. Slowed channeling? Why can't it be seal/freeze or just plain damage? Then even if it cost one spark people might have a reason to use it.

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

Blue, Totally agree with Mage bane too! That may be one of the most worthless skills. That on top of it costing a spark is pretty crazy. I would rather take my chance with Aeolian blade and hope I luck out and get a stun along with the damage.

And I too would take a slow over the knock back.

And even in PvP, although I have not taken a BM high enough to use the skill, it seems to me, that if you use the skill on an Archer or Wizzy, your putting them in the perfect position to drop bombs, so you are left hoping it is enough to finish them, once again wasting the knock back effect anyway.

Zhoelle - Sanctuary

What if you use it more as a defensive option? You're getting a bad beatdown, so you knock the enemy back, giving yourself time to run away. Just speculating here...

Or maybe to provide time to switch weapons?
There has to be a combo we're not thinking of!

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

I think its a great skill. Think about it. Axes get drakes bash to stun and protect squishy's and give themselves time to pot or sutra.

Now say in a instance a squishy draws aggro. You can run up and knock aggro'd mob back. Dealing great damage/drawing aggro, and at the same time giving your team mate space and time to recover. That is how I would use this skill.

Seablue - Sanctuary

Zhoelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

What if you use it more as a defensive option? You're getting a bad beatdown, so you knock the enemy back, giving yourself time to run away. Just speculating here...

Or maybe to provide time to switch weapons?
There has to be a combo we're not thinking of!

Well unless you're being ganged on by multiple melee mobs, you're not that likely to die since you have high pdef, roar of the pride, cloudsprint and diamond sutra. I really doubt that you'll want to use it on a none melee anyway.

Assuming that your sprint, stun, heal, charm are all on cool down knock back can help. The thing is elite mobs usually come in singles and they really don't do that much damage to you so that your pots, charm and sutra can't hold. So the chances are that you're being ganged on by melee mobs which means that meteor strike will be more useful as it can knock back multiple mobs

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think its a great skill. Think about it. Axes get drakes bash to stun and protect squishy's and give themselves time to pot or sutra.

Now say in a instance a squishy draws aggro. You can run up and knock aggro'd mob back. Dealing great damage/drawing aggro, and at the same time giving your team mate space and time to recover. That is how I would use this skill.

Well the thing about bm is that pretty much everything can be solved with roar of the pride. So at times like this you can just stun and auto attack.

If roar is on cool down, my first choice of skills will be aoelian blade if not the axe aoe/stun. Aoe for multiple mobs, stun for singles.

Healing aggro isn't that hard to take back and knock back in instances can be very dangerous because you might accidently aggro more mobs. Atoms can work like that but I really don't think you'll use it unless your stun is on cool down.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And even in PvP, although I have not taken a BM high enough to use the skill, it seems to me, that if you use the skill on an Archer or Wizzy, your putting them in the perfect position to drop bombs, so you are left hoping it is enough to finish them, once again wasting the knock back effect anyway.

KB doesn't exist in PvP against players. Any skill that has KB as an effect just deals the skills damage and other effects, KB is ignored.

Most likely it is meant to be used as a group skill. When someone other than tank draws aggro, use atmos strike to knock it far away from the squishies or yourself. The tank hunts it down while everyone gives it some space. Aggro is grabbed again, back to normal attacking once enough hate is built again.

So it's good for PvE and PvP, just that the pve side has certain areas that it isn't useful while it is invaluable in others.

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think its a great skill. Think about it. Axes get drakes bash to stun and protect squishy's and give themselves time to pot or sutra.

I can see it being used in this instance. I may opt for roar before I would use this, just cause I would want to keep the mob contained, instead of shooting it all around, I used to squad a lot with a wizzy who loved to use her knock back, and it would drive me crazy, cause it left me running all over the place, sometimes running through other mobs to finish attacking the mob that was knocked back.

And yeah, after I wrote the part about PvP, I started to question if what I waid was accurate. I seemed to remember that certain effects did not translate in PvP.

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can see it being used in this instance. I may opt for roar before I would use this, just cause I would want to keep the mob contained, instead of shooting it all around, I used to squad a lot with a wizzy who loved to use her knock back, and it would drive me crazy, cause it left me running all over the place, sometimes running through other mobs to finish attacking the mob that was knocked back.

And yeah, after I wrote the part about PvP, I started to question if what I waid was accurate. I seemed to remember that certain effects did not translate in PvP.

This skill has three uses.

First is the one identified above where it's slightly faster cast/channel time than roar can make a big difference in squishy survival chances.

Second is in combination with Spirit Chaser as a closing combination. While the OP is correct that the KB is a longer range than Spirit's, that is irrelevant because the KB is longer than most mobs' magic attack radius too. So, at about 1/4 life bar, you can cast Atmos and maybe kill the mob outright. If not, you hit your SC quick key and both of you take a step or so towards each other. Since SC has a faster channel time than almost all mobs, you get your shot off and the mob dies before a magic attack is registered. It is a lot of trouble, but this can avoid a bit of repair bills and is consistent with most of the sword skills as a complement to a mostly normal attack.

The most important use of this skill, though, is in wraith attacks. When you have been standing near a spawn point and the wraith finally comes for you only to be grabbed by an archer, this skill is critical. Two shots in, that archer will hit his KB. So, time your Atmos Strike for just after that to throw the mob right back in the archer's lap. He wanted your mob after all, right?

Shadowdragon - Harshlands

Bobncut - Sanctuary wrote: »

The most important use of this skill, though, is in wraith attacks. When you have been standing near a spawn point and the wraith finally comes for you only to be grabbed by an archer, this skill is critical. Two shots in, that archer will hit his KB. So, time your Atmos Strike for just after that to throw the mob right back in the archer's lap. He wanted your mob after all, right?

LOL I love this and will try it out =P

But as for the skill I love it. And here's why. Many have already said this about how you can use it to save a squishy who drew aggro. But it has other uses. Again highly situational, but that's what's fun about sword bms. Imagine this, you're in a squad and barb uses aoe knockback. Now he has to pick one while the ranged mob picks at his life. Solution? Knockback the lil bugger back into aoe range. And set up for another aoe knockback. Can be combined with an axe bm who has to chase down 2 lil archers if it ever happens.

There is another time when soloing however. As a sword bm you usually go 1 on 1 with mobs anyways. What happens when a ranged magic mob spawns all the way back that you can't hit both with aoe or position yourself to take only phys? You knock back your target so it stands near the other mob and then tank their phys with your dodge and high pdef.

Be creative, think of what you can do with your skills and what they can do for you. That's the fun thing about a BM

Btw if anyone sees other uses plz lemme know. Knowing these things makes being a sword bm that much more fun.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Seablue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well unless you're being ganged on by multiple melee mobs, you're not that likely to die since you have high pdef, roar of the pride, cloudsprint and diamond sutra. I really doubt that you'll want to use it on a none melee anyway.

Assuming that your sprint, stun, heal, charm are all on cool down knock back can help. The thing is elite mobs usually come in singles and they really don't do that much damage to you so that your pots, charm and sutra can't hold. So the chances are that you're being ganged on by melee mobs which means that meteor strike will be more useful as it can knock back multiple mobs




Well the thing about bm is that pretty much everything can be solved with roar of the pride. So at times like this you can just stun and auto attack.

If roar is on cool down, my first choice of skills will be aoelian blade if not the axe aoe/stun. Aoe for multiple mobs, stun for singles.

Healing aggro isn't that hard to take back and knock back in instances can be very dangerous because you might accidently aggro more mobs. Atoms can work like that but I really don't think you'll use it unless your stun is on cool down.

Sea - Your changing the subject. The OP asked what the use of atmos was. Not AB or Roar etc... I was answering the question asked. Letting him know how i would use that skill, which i don't even have, and making reference to the axe trees Drakes bash. Which i use to take aggro from a single mob to protect veno pullers. (then they feed me spark works out great) and i could go on all day about Roar......anyways now you have me digressing into a different subject.

Read here if you want to know more.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=256252&highlight=advancezero&page=3

Lyndura - Lost City

Using Atmos Strike to try to get aggro is fail. This class has better options such as Roar of the Pride, Aeolian Blade, Drake Bash and of course the new skill, Alpha Male.

Pretty much Atmos Strike is just a damaging skill, the use of the knock back is pretty limited, almost just to low level instances, since using knock back in high level ones is very dumb.

So other than damage, you can have fun pushing back mobs whenever you are bored and use it on situations when it is required to group some mobs into the same spot to AoE them.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

Using Atmos Strike to try to get aggro is fail. This class has better options such as Roar of the Pride, Aeolian Blade, Drake Bash and of course the new skill, Alpha Male.

Pretty much Atmos Strike is just a damaging skill, the use of the knock back is pretty limited, almost just to low level instances, since using knock back in high level ones is very dumb.

So other than damage, you can have fun pushing back mobs whenever you are bored and use it on situations when it is required to group some mobs into the same spot to AoE them.

Considering this is swords most powerful attack, other then their ultimate skill. It will out damage AB(eventually), and they won't have DB. So this skill will draw aggro. And once again people this is a subject on how Atmos Stike could/should be used. Ladies and gents, we continue to only digress from the subject at hand. Yes there are better skills suited for grabbing aggro. But that wasn't the question posted.

Anyways a sword user could use this to push back a physical mob and then take it on 1v1 further away from the squishy. And if that's useless...then perhaps dragons amp damage must be too......(the last statement is sarcasm)

In a discussion if you disagree with someone it's considerate to give examples why what they stated wouldn't work. And remember to continue answer the question within the context that is given.

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

Zero is right on point with this. This is not about how much damage AS does, or whether or not it is a viable aggro skill. It is about placement of the skill in the context of a fight. It is trying to get a better understanding of how the KNOCK BACK portion of the skill can be viewed as a positive.

The point is, the knock back has a use, just how it is used and how situational the use is, is what my question was.

And to that, It is not just randomly thrown in there, it is also in the pole skill tree, so, someone, at some point, felt that it was a useful tool.


And, since the knockback portion of the skill, in itself is not going to draw aggro, but the damage that the skill produces, saying because it draws aggro is off topic.

But, the same question does apply for the pole users (Lyndura) Do you find a usefulness for Meteor Rush? Other than the damage output?

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Thinking of all the situations that can come up when you suddenly need to be an off tank, I can see some where other skills would dominate.

Tiger dead? Use Alpha Male to grab up all the aggro (assuming you have this jinni skill).

Mob slipping past the main tank? Use Roar to freeze the situation so nobody panics. Note: this would be a time when knockback would, indeed, fail since you would be pushing a mob away from the tank and toward the squishies.

Mob already engaging the cleric? Depending on how close you are, knockback can be one of the fastest ways to buy the squishy a couple of seconds. Note that you are not just trying to get aggro. Separating the mob from the cleric (or pushing it out of its range of the cleric) quickly saves a hit that might be fatal.



Also, on the list of uses should be knocking mobs into someone else's AOE (say, so you can get back to pulling for a zen party).

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

That is exactly what I am looking for. I know it has been said a couple times, but I am looking at it as one of the best uses of the feature. To push a mob away from a squishy. And, of course, you also run the chance of pulling aggro from the damage, which is bonus.

I only have limited Zhen time in, so I cant really comment on that, other than my only concern would be that due to the damage dealt, could you possibly hold aggro even if you do succeed in firing the mob into someones AOE?

Seablue - Sanctuary

Ok I see your point here Zero, the point I was trying to make in that post is that there are better skills to use in pretty much every situation; so I really don't see why the devs put in that skill since it doesn't even have its unique function. I'm not saying that knockback is bad but knockback on atmos is bad. Meteor can do the same if not a better job since it can be used in aoe grinding as well.

But still let me present my way of using it:

1. Push back magic mobs into zhen. I've only ever used it twice in this context. Been to rebirth gamma once and I was unlucky enough to survive till the magic mobs came. Managed to push 2 of them in before I got killed (didn't even see my charm tick) and kicked.

2. In combination with spirit chaser + bleed/slow skill. Probably my most used one on mobs, but that had been said before. It looks cool and all, but I really don't see why you would do it since it hardly makes a difference in terms of damage.

#2 is probably the only reason why atmos has knockback. I think the idea of zhen is developed by the players so that usage is probably not intended by the devs.

FangJingShan - Lost City

Bobncut - Sanctuary wrote: »

The most important use of this skill, though, is in wraith attacks. When you have been standing near a spawn point and the wraith finally comes for you only to be grabbed by an archer, this skill is critical. Two shots in, that archer will hit his KB. So, time your Atmos Strike for just after that to throw the mob right back in the archer's lap. He wanted your mob after all, right?

I loled.

Otherwise, I'd say it gives you time to cast Alter Marrow Physical and still be able to use distance attacks before it reaches you again, or possibly start with distance attacks, use Atmos, then use them again. I've never used swords though, so forgive me if the cooldown times would not allow this. Or possibly in combination with the polearm distance skills also.

Sinense - Sanctuary

I imagine this skill was designed to look cool. Maybe they were thinking "comic book heros" instead of "merchant bank accountants"?

But, for fun, imagine a squad of sword blademasters, standing near each other, playing yo-yo with some powerful melee monster and this skill? With some practice, six blademasters (or five and a cleric?) could maybe have some fun?

(But time for non-combat skills might also be good.)

Zhoelle - Sanctuary

But, for fun, imagine a squad of axe blademasters, standing near each other, playing yo-yo with some powerful melee monster and this skill? With some practice, six blademasters (or five and a cleric?) could maybe have some fun?

Oh yeah!!! You have provided inspiration - must try this!b:laugh

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For the life of me, I can not understand the logic behind Atmos strike. Why does it have a knockback? Why is the knockback so much that it puts the mob out of range for another skill like Spirit chaser. And why would someone who is primarily Sword have much of a use for this?

A BM's strength is its Pdef. Why send a mob into Magic attack range? Seems to me that this skill would be better suited with a bleed or a fanned AOE.

I know that Pole has a knockback too (Meteor Rush) and that skill too, is a little bit questionable, but, at least in the pole tree, your given more of a ranged attack set.

Just looking for banter, wondering what other Bm's thought of these skills and how they find them useful.

For Pole it allows you another chance to line them up again if you didn't do it perfectly the first time. /shrug

Voices - Lost City

It works well against physical mobs in combination with spirit chaser, drakes ray, and MSS. It's damaging to grinding in any other case.

I would have liked it if you could switch weapons more quickly, because it and farstrike are the only non-spark, non-AOE skills with damage modifiers

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

I must admit that I am not an expert player at pwi, but I have picked up on a few things in my 2 months of playing.

I have noticed that with atmos strike, the knockback makes it a bad skill to use in pve situations, especially on the bosses, since I am real weary about it knocking the boss back and taking away the damage that our party would have down if the boss was stationary. However since I am weary about using it, the boss may be unable to be knocked back, and if that's the case, then I should start using atmos strike more often since it is my most damaging skill. At least until I reach level 59/rank up spirit cultivation.

The only time I have really found it useful is for the mobs in fb 29, and 39 that will explode on you once you kill them, (yes there is other ways of avoiding the explosion (leap back)) but both require timing, which can get difficult.

The knockback is indeed more useful for melee opponents, (basically what someone said on the first page) and argo shouldn't really be used for magic opponents, though that is indeed easier said then done.

Perhaps it should have a different set of effects on the pve/pvp servers, though I doubt this will be changed, because as I am sure most of you are aware it does have an area or two it shines, and becomes real useful.

^ just something I noticed/though I would put my two cents worth in.

Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear

atmos strike is great
if you have ever done a rebirth with an archer, sometimes the mobs get out of the aoe and its a BM's job to shove them back in it
when used in that situation, its the best to use

Maddrox - Harshlands

Lyndura - Lost City wrote: »

Using Atmos Strike to try to get aggro is fail. This class has better options such as Roar of the Pride, Aeolian Blade, Drake Bash and of course the new skill, Alpha Male.

Sorry this may be a little off-topic, but what is Alpha Male? o.0

Atmos Strike has proven to be a very powerful skill to me in PvP, and yes it can oneshot robers. PvE I rarely use it, tbh I forgot about the knockback part of it.. I'm definately going to try to find a use for me with it.

severan

If you are a sword BM using a Sword for PVE, This should be your combo...

Lion roar --> Draw Blood --> auto attack (left click)

When the monster's HP drops below 60% use an Aeolian blade, to cancel it's 2nd magic attack.

in PVP,
I recommend atom strike to be used after a Glacial spike or Heaven's flame. if it's an LA or robe on your target it's dead.

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear

So,
Seems to me that its strongest uses then are basically, to knock a mob away from a squishy who grabs aggro, which makes sense, as long as it is a single mob.

And then again for push back during Zhenning. Which I can also see as being useful in situations.

I have never used it in either of those situations, but may have to give it a shot.

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Bashusilly - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So,
Seems to me that its strongest uses then are basically, to knock a mob away from a squishy who grabs aggro, which makes sense, as long as it is a single mob.

And then again for push back during Zhenning. Which I can also see as being useful in situations.

I have never used it in either of those situations, but may have to give it a shot.

All kidding aside, it is a great feature agains melee mobs since you can Atmos, Spirit, and still have time for a marrow or to heal if you need - particularly if you got surprised. Even if you don't need the breather for a buff or heal, trading a bit of mana for lower repair cost and less HP loss is worthwhile.

Against higher level mobs with a magic attack that matters, it is still a good feature when used with Sprirt Chase as a closing combo - particularly if you had a miss or two in your sequence of normal attacks and have a risk of facing the third magic attack from melee range.

Use in instances against the "ordinary" elite mobs there has been discussed. Against bosses, someone mentioned a worry about knockback disrupting the party. This is possible, but only if you have a lot of levels over the boss. It is not a complete immunity (like stun seems to be), but most bosses close to your level will not suffer the knockback effect. So, use some care, but this can be a way to raise your DPS slightly in boss fights. I say slightly because of the cast/channel time.