Botting: Know the cause, help find the cure.

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear

Okay Seriously people. There have been over 9000 threads on this topic of people botting: "_______ is botting"..... Is there absolutely nothing that can be done?

NOTE: I have made the below small to focus on the rest of this.

I was grinding at mt. Skull the other day and here is my very interesting story:

A certian person (no names mentioned) there totally botting. so I PMed him and said "So, are you enjoying your bot" (how I knew he was botting was the same EXACT pattern that he had; highland cleave > attack > fan of flames > attack > drake ray..... > pause for a bit.... > target next mob, and do this over and over and over again).

After I pmed him he didnt respond. So I pmed him again: "If you dont respawn I will kill you"... yet again he didnt respond. So I attacked him with my nix, and he didnt do anything out of the ordinary, just continued to do the same pattern as above, so I killed him. And I had a red name after so I teleported to town and was there to let my redname cool off cause I had no more dolls left. Anyway, literally 45 minues later he PMs me, and asks:

"Why the hell did you kill me?!"
and I was like "Lol, cause you were botting"
and he was like "No I wasn't! I was just grinding here and you just killed me"
Me: "so It takes you 45 min to respond and find out you were were killed"
Him: "What?! you just killed me! I was just seeing if someone would notice"
Me: "Notice what lol, and why havent you even respawned yet?"
Him: "I was seeing how long it takes for people to think I was botting"
Him: "you owe me a miji"
Me: "I owe you a miji?! lol are you daft?"
Him: "yarly you owe me a miji caz I was using it and now I lost it"
Him: "i g2g now so send me my miji or i will report you to the gms"
Me: "Lol wft are you talking about!?" It said he was offline

So, this idiot was not only botting but also said that he was going to report me to the GMs for killing him while he was on a miji.

It gets better.

The next day I was grinding there again, and he was there botting like usual only using a differnet pattern (can't remember what order the skills were in) but I PMd him and:

Me: "So you are up to your no-good botting again"
~silence~
So i attacked him, as as expected he just continued to grind without a care in the world of a nix attacking him. To avoid getting a red name again I got up close and I got hit by his AOE, so then I killed him
~20 min or so later I was grinding as his corpse was floating there~
Him: "i have no attain good english no speak good makes me no bot! U killd me! why?" (Translation: I dont speak good english that doesnt make me a bot, why did you kill me)
Me: "Hmm, I killed you 20 min ago....."
Him: "I BR no speak good, i not respond and you didt have to kill me"
Me: "Well how come you were speeking fluently in english yesterday?"
Him: "No i dont have him he is from my friend not mine"
Me: "What isnt yours"
Him: "________ (name of character he was playing)"
....
....
....

Okay.... so that's my story of a runin with 1 bot, there are plenty more where that came from.

~~~~~~~POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS~~~~~~~~~

Okay.... so as we all know there is a "Report Hacking" button, but does it actually do anything? I wonder.

When you click on the button you get a "Plese wait for a response", even after 8 or 9 hours of waiting this does nothing.................

SOLUTION

I played another game once, an MMO, that had a solution to this.

The game had a "Handcuffs" item that allowed you to "Arrest" the pesrson. The items cost money and had a cooldown timer to avoid abuse.

The way that you can implement this item is to make it so it displays one of those images with characters in it so you must enter the word it says into the textbox within, say 30 min or something happens:
To avoid using it on ppl AFK here is the steps that could ensure this:

+ you cannot use it on a cash shop or person that is meditating
+ you can only use it on a person in combat

How they work

Some bots work by sending "Keystrokes" to the application, anyone with programming knowlege can do this, there are numerous API and DLL to do this (*sigh* a girl knows more about programming than most b:cute ).
The way some bots read HP and MP values are by either a) looking at pixels or b) looking at memory adresses.

The pixel meathod works by placing a "watch" on the pixel for example, when your HP drops part of your HP bar disappears:

Full HP bar:
_______________
|||||||||||||||||

Damaged HP bar:
_______________
|||||||||||||||||

The pixel meathod works by looking at the "yellow bar" if it is red, then dont heal, if it is black (depleated) then heal...

The second meathod works by reading the value of the adress in the memory, and if the correct one is found (and not using some obsucre encryption or encoding thing) then you can determine your total HP and stuff.....

Okay I wond go into any more on how they work (GMS probably dont like it) but I have a solution:;

How to tell

Its pretty simple.... usually they only follow 1 skill 'macro'.
Attack > kill > next > repeat

When you PM them they dont usually reply, and when you attempt to PK them they dont respond, just keep at their pattern

~~~A Possible solution # 2~~~

A MMORPG game that I know uses a secure meathod to protect against such attacks is Rappelz... not that I am advertising rappelz in any way, I would just like to say how effective the "anti botting" measure they implemented.

This software is called "GameGuard" and it is made by some korean company, but that is irrelevant.
The software verefies checksums of files and compares them to that of the server to prevent file modification. It also protects memory adresses of the game and does not allow modification to them, and last but not least is it "hides the application" making it "nearly invisable" and protected from being sent keystrokes.

What I am getting at is PWI needs some sort of solution for bots, it just totally kills the fun of the game when all that people do is go watch TV and leave a bot to play as them and then brag on how their level 90 character can kill your level 30 charachter in 1 hit.
Why can't us fair players of PWI enjoy the game without some level 90 moron 1hitting you and then claiming that they are superrior because they botted for a month? I have nothing against people that actively play the game and enjoy to PK, but botting has just plainly become rediculous on HL server, its like it's openly done and nobody gives a **** about it.

~~Rant~~

Why can't I BE a GM? Personally I dont care about getting paid, nor the gear, I just want to stop this growing army of evil that botts, makes a guild, then takes over the server and proclaims the server to be calles The United States of Botting-a-stan. Not that I am insulting the GMS in any way, I know you guys are busy with making those awesome evnets and content updates (YEA GMS!!!! KUDOS TO YOU GUYS!!!!! b:kiss) I just want to help make this stop. I mean you all want this to happen right? A fair and just world of PW where everyone can PK together in happieness and run those FBs with smiles on their faces ^(^.^)^

Right?

Of course I am right!

So lets all make this happen (Moral booster?), Lets remove these imputies from the Perfect World!

~~~Poll~~~

1: Handcuff system
2: A "Software solution" like the one mentioned
3: User "Game Moderators" to moderate the ingame issues
4: Do nothing, bots dont bother me

Finale: Okay so I have written this really long long long long thing, and to my knowlege I have NOT violated the TOS, I have just read it; No I am NOT advocating cheating, I hate cheaters, but I just want to put it out there for people to give some feedback to make this game as good as it can be.
Id there is anything, anything at all wrong with this thread, dont hesitate to tell me or delete this thead. Thank you!

Reivi - Sanctuary

considering the bots using "macros"

you can install server side, a simple software that checks if the actions taken by a player are constant in time or random

(Macros even with a extra input of "randomness" are constants in the "clicks" for actions.. human action isnt (only if spam heal when holding a key down) )

Handcuffs will fast become a "game" to anoy somebody ytou dont like

Meca - Harshlands

the PW-MS server GM's were saying there working on an anti-bot program, which never happened as far as i no, and i realy dont think it will happen here unless the devs in china do some possible solution,

this game has been out for some years now and the devs dont even work on bugs, so theres a fat chance there gonna work on an anti bot system, u can rant/complain/cry/moan/shout/curse or w/e, but on PW, this is a game that just DOESNT change for the good of anything.

the actual game engien and connection to players used for this game is attrocious (perfect example: everything done such as skills involved internet connection to the servers, u can start running but the game wont pick it up till 2 seconds later)

the handcuf system is good, there is also other good solutions, but trust me, nothing will happen about bots, its all to do with how active the GM's are and if they can be assed to hunt for bots them self, which they dont, they just think let the players find a bot and report.

i no perfectly well how the GM powers work, they can teleport ANYWHERE on the map by simply pressing M, and then holding down the ctrl key and then left clicking on the map and they will teleport to the location, so as easy as that the GM's cud check in commen grind spots, or even *secluded* grind spots for a bot.

so you're post is in good mind, but nothing is gonna get done unless the GM's act up and do there job.

codem

how much do you pay for this game for gm's to care?

Allure - Harshlands

I played a game with the handcuff system. While it is good in most areas, it was abused. People would like...handcuff you during PK so you'd have to take the time to type in the characters and they'd kill you before you could hit enter.

I like your idea of only using it in combat, but it does bring to mind zhen parties. Usually the DDs are afk, and in combat mode. >_<

Zhoelle - Sanctuary

Some really good ideas. Ideally, a software solution would be great, but if not reasonable, then KOS all botters. (Too bad that doesn't work on PvE servers)

Paladin - Harshlands

Why not post a few screenshots of this situation?

BelleFemme - Harshlands

I agree with Meca. PWI isn't gonna fix it. There will always be bots.

Cheaters -.-

codem

try playing a pay to play game and see if anyone cares.

Aurian - Harshlands

Do nothing, Bots dont bother me

Not wasting my time to read a big **** post from a carebear with a HUGE butt hurtb:bye

Stop QQing and go lvl, thats what i do b:kiss

Belief - Harshlands

Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »

Do nothing, Bots dont bother me

Not wasting my time to read a big **** post from a carebear with a HUGE butt hurtb:bye

Stop QQing and go lvl, thats what i do b:kiss

With a script i.e.
Botters deserves to die b:angry

missqq

Q_Q u jealous?

Belief - Harshlands

Berry berry jealous b:cute

Spudunker - Harshlands

GameGuard is used on Gunz the Duel and is very easy to get by with hacks and such o.o. I've never had a problem bypassing GameGuard.

Nukesrus - Harshlands

It's not like botters are that big a threat... If they don't have time to level, do you think they'll really have time to become amazing PvPers? Even if they do, it's just a game. You'll be their level soon enough, and then one of you will have the skills necessary to prevail, while the other will have their macros.

I'm not too worried about it. I'd rather flesh ream get fixed first.

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear

All these are really good ideas, sady the one implemented one "Report hacking" doenst work... for those with some knowlege of C, here is the aproximation of how that button was coded:

void SubmitReport()
{
//this is supposed to repot a hackar
//currently under development
//insted do this:
int number=1, result, i;
while (1)
{
result=(number/0);
}
}

No wnder it doesnt work.....b:shocked

Zorish - Harshlands

Did I say it? Ill start botting too!
THATS THE SOLUTION

BOT PPL BOT!

Seleucia - Heavens Tear

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

It's not like botters are that big a threat... If they don't have time to level, do you think they'll really have time to become amazing PvPers? Even if they do, it's just a game. You'll be their level soon enough, and then one of you will have the skills necessary to prevail, while the other will have their macros.

I'm not too worried about it. I'd rather flesh ream get fixed first.

Its pretty easy to learn how to PvP. Especially in PWI. Once you start practicing, you eventually learn what to do and what not to do. Granted you may not be the best pvper ever, but you will be good enough to easily hold your ground. Add with that, lvl advantage and/or gear you may just be one of the top tier ones.

Besides why are you so keen on defending those who are cheating? When QQme members are accused, you defend them. When the topic of botting comes up, you make excuses for it. Tell me: DO YOU THINK BOTTING IS WRONG OR NOT?

AsHeZ - Harshlands

It's pretty obvious why QQme acknowledges botting *doh*

Then again all the botting in the world still doesn't help them in PK/TW ^_^

Let 'em defend their fellow botters. This thread has some good points, let's hope a GM/Mod takes a look and gives us their input.

Angerr - Harshlands

AsHeZ - Harshlands wrote: »

It's pretty obvious why QQme acknowledges botting *doh*

Then again all the botting in the world still doesn't help them in PK/TW ^_^

Let 'em defend their fellow botters. This thread has some good points, let's hope a GM/Mod takes a look and gives us their input.

ash ya big newb b:bye

thats not a qqme guy, thats loltank from kingdom i believe so b:surrender

Starr - Harshlands

AsHeZ - Harshlands wrote: »

It's pretty obvious why QQme acknowledges botting *doh*

Then again all the botting in the world still doesn't help them in PK/TW ^_^

Let 'em defend their fellow botters. This thread has some good points, let's hope a GM/Mod takes a look and gives us their input.

i dont think that anyone is QQme has defended botting. i do know of a few Crimson, Kylin, Kingdom, and others who we have reported for botting. i guess we just need to cover the forums in thread about how we report people. b:surrender

if you see someone botting report it. the hacking button does work and i have had a response within seconds from a GM.

seriously, you people need to settle down. do you freak out this much over speeding drivers? or shoplifters? there will always be cheaters and dishonest people around you. get over it. nuff said.

AsHeZ - Harshlands

Starr - Harshlands wrote: »

i dont think that anyone is QQme has defended botting.

Aurian - Harshlands wrote: »

Do nothing, Bots dont bother me

Not wasting my time to read a big **** post from a carebear with a HUGE butt hurtb:bye

Stop QQing and go lvl, thats what i do b:kiss

*bite* annnnnnnnnngeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Angerr - Harshlands

ashey dont be a lolnewb ;D he has been in kingdom for like ages and came to qqme for 1 tw then went back ^^ now come and embrace me for chi to heaven spark you b:angryb:angry

AsHeZ - Harshlands

Angerr - Harshlands wrote: »

ashey dont be a lolnewb ;D he has been in kingdom for like ages and came to qqme for 1 tw then went back ^^ now come and embrace me for chi to heaven spark you b:angryb:angry

Awww my bad then... FU I'm sick of ur spark 1 hit KO!!! b:angry

I'm up for some hot shex and waffles though b:kiss

d33m0n101

too bad GM's don't talk in this forums.. they know only how to close threads

XCyrusX - Harshlands

gm teleported me to sumor camp after i flew to teleporter at swiftwind to warn me about luring bosses b:angry if they can do that they can do the same to bots for easy detection <_< teleport them elsewhere and see how they respond.

merulz

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I played another game once, an MMO, that had a solution to this.

The game had a "Handcuffs" item that allowed you to "Arrest" the pesrson. The items cost money and had a cooldown timer to avoid abuse.

The way that you can implement this item is to make it so it displays one of those images with characters in it so you must enter the word it says into the textbox within, say 30 min or something happens:
To avoid using it on ppl AFK here is the steps that could ensure this:

+ you cannot use it on a cash shop or person that is meditating
+ you can only use it on a person in combat

You realize that YNK took handcuffs out of Rohan because they were broken, right?

Nukesrus - Harshlands

XCyrusX - Harshlands wrote: »

gm teleported me to sumor camp after i flew to teleporter at swiftwind to warn me about luring bosses b:angry if they can do that they can do the same to bots for easy detection <_< teleport them elsewhere and see how they respond.

You, sir, have just solved the problem.


Seriously, why not do this?

Ligeia - Harshlands

XCyrusX - Harshlands wrote: »

gm teleported me to sumor camp after i flew to teleporter at swiftwind to warn me about luring bosses b:angry if they can do that they can do the same to bots for easy detection <_< teleport them elsewhere and see how they respond.

They've done that before. But despite everyone going 'wtf?' in common chat and still continuing to grind normally, they got banned anyway. GM's just kinda do whatever they want tbh.

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear

merulz wrote: »

You realize that YNK took handcuffs out of Rohan because they were broken, right?

they could have fixed them =_=
And yea, that was the game I was referring too, I just couldn't think of what it was called ^.^

arjensmit

Many of the so called sollutions will not work.

In the past, i have made bots for online casino bonuswhoring (google that if you want an explanation) Those people really do have an incentive to stop bots, its their money being lost. But they don't succeed.

Now i don't feel bad about botting on casinos who try to take your money, but i also botted a little on runesc@pe. (hahaha, this word is censored) Sorry if you now feel mad at me, sorry for that, never got my char over level 20 though, it was morese for the challenge and fun of writing a working bot. And i promise i wont bot in perfect world. GM's you have my name to regularly check my account now

I'll go over some methods.

Protecting memory etc: I am not skilled enough to know if there are ways to get around this. With this fact also comes that i am not skilled enough to know if it is detectable or not, so i never used it. It is convenient if you can do it, but it is not needed. Also, i don't really believe you can stop people from reading memory. Yes, you can detect it if they alter the memory, but information that is there, is simply there, and it can be read by the right programmer.

Making software "invisible" and not taking keystrokes: I don't know if that would be possible. And if so, how would it go about mouse klicks ? I think pretty much the same about this as the memory thing. Your computer takes keystrokes from your keyboard. It should always be possible to emulate them. Dont forget that there are people who can even take over your computer from the other side of the world. Surely they can take control of their own computer.

Checking for consistent timing: Utterly usless. Adding a random timer to every action your bots makes takes about 20 seconds.

changing grapgics: This is something they did in *********. Collors change an imperceptable bit every few seconds, the screen moves a pixel to the left or right every few seconds. This is actually what made it fun to make a bot. Without it, it would have taken 1 hour to write a bot, now it took me 10 or so. So it still doesn't really work..

Checking system processes: This is what pokersites do, they check your pc for what processes are running. This works only against known bots of course, not against self written bots. And it can be solved by using a second pc with remote office software.

So the conclusion is: Software solutions dont work. They make it a bit harder, but really not even that hard. Of course that does not mean they should not be used in conjunction with the other methods that are more promising.

I recognise 2 things that work in online poker:

1)The game needs to be difficult enough that it needs human intelligence to be played, or at least take very long R&D to have an AI do it. (think chess, and yes probably poker will know high level competetive AI 10 or 20 years from now) Translating to mmorpg's maybe game developers should try to makes the games more playing instead of grinding. That is the problem i have with RPGs anyway, it usually makes me quit games after a while.

2)You need a lot of motivated humans to judge when someone is botting, take action imeadiately and have the strongest possible concequences. (IP ban, no warnings)
Both the handcuff and moderator thing fit into this category, and i support both.


BTW, i came to this page because i saw 2 offerings of 1000 nectar in the auction house for a somewhat low price. Now i don't really expect people to go spend days and days gathering 2000 nectar only to offer them on the AH for a low price. So i wanted to know more about botting in this game. So aren't the GM's looking at things like this ? Should i report it and ask some GM to look at this ?