Heavy Veno - Pros, Cons, and Workarounds?

Pemarkre - Harshlands

I've been playing my veno as HA (heavy armor). It's worked well up to early 2x, but I'm starting to reconsider - especially since my veno is now my secondary and I don't play her very much.

I'd like some feedback from HA venos, what levels have you played as HA, and how has it worked out for you, both in PvE and PvP? (I'm on PvP server Harshlands.)

I'm specifically looking for feedback on how an HA veno deals with the lower magic - it's going to gank Pet Heal, and make it impossible to equip the same-level Magic weapons. How much of an impact is that making on your casting and healing skills? Is your pet surviving well, and what adjustments have you had to make to compensate for the lower magic consequences?

Also, how does it change your gameplay style overall? Are you equipping melee weapons and getting right in there with the mobs? Or are you going Fox Form with a magic weapon equipped? How well does that work, can you melee a mob to death quickly, and how much damage are you taking when you try it? Can you tank multiple mobs at a time that way? Can you have your pet tank some, while you tank another, or does that put your pet in too much danger of dying?

And for those who are bound to go OMG HA VENO NOT MEANT TO BE! Yes, I'm aware it's kind of counterintuitive - Veno attacks are magic based and there aren't any physical based close-range attacks like BM's etc. have. But I like the armor sets and the lack of squish is appealing, so I want to see how viable it actually is In Gameplay from people using the class.

Eorween - Heavens Tear

HA veno for secondary character will never work.
unless you really sit infront of computer 20 hours a day play with main and seconds.

Im magic/vit build atm and been looking into HA veno.
It does have some very promising view.
but the character does really need a lot of gear.
You heavy armor is no different then bm wb.
what you need is very very good accessories and cape.
high refine for hp and gems, since you dont have like 100 vit to put in the char.
99% of legendary and tt / fc/ lunar accessory dont give the right stats for HA veno.
you have to rely on more good crafted accessories.
that would allow you to wear max lvl weapon and armor.

dont think you be great tank as a wb since you have less hp but you can beat a bm tanking anyday.
pvp wise every melee / archer dont like you at all.
pve vs magic mobs, you might consider having second set of armor LA, since their melee isnt the highest and you have the bonus phy def buff from foxform

IWiz - Harshlands

HA venos are fun, but do not belong on PvP servers. Period. They are great against PvE, perfect tanks if you find an appropriate magic-oriented pet, but when you start using this build for PvP, you immediately fail no matter how high your level actually is. Even if you are 100 PKing 30's fresh off their cult and FB training, you still fail in my opinion.

Magic Mobs usually (from what I've seen and experienced) don't cast spells when you are right there pounding on them, so it's more of a matter of killing them quickly than it is trying to fend off their spells. Depending on how you stat and shard yourself, you can also make up a small amount of this magic defense you lose as HA, but it's not advised, as it's completely pointless for your build. Go make a LA veno instead.


I made the mistake of making HA veno on a PvP server, it was a great build to play, but I knew that PvP would be more hell than Wizard, and I prefer Wizard due to the challenge lol.


PvE as HA veno is something like this, but Barb is better for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTA0lSYIe8&fmt=22

(sorry bout the shameless advertising lol). Generally better in PvE than a normal veno due to the quicker grinding, but at higher levels I'm not so sure. I stopped playing her at 29.


EDIT: also I sharded a ton of evasion onto my character, which is an interesting attempt at a more unique build; if they can't hit you, you lose less hp, and the hp / pdef isn't needed to be as high.

Walterthewf - Harshlands

IWiz - Harshlands wrote: »

HA venos are fun, but do not belong on PvP servers. Period. They are great against PvE, perfect tanks if you find an appropriate magic-oriented pet, but when you start using this build for PvP, you immediately fail no matter how high your level actually is. Even if you are 100 PKing 30's fresh off their cult and FB training, you still fail in my opinion.

Magic Mobs usually (from what I've seen and experienced) don't cast spells when you are right there pounding on them, so it's more of a matter of killing them quickly than it is trying to fend off their spells. Depending on how you stat and shard yourself, you can also make up a small amount of this magic defense you lose as HA, but it's not advised, as it's completely pointless for your build. Go make a LA veno instead.


I made the mistake of making HA veno on a PvP server, it was a great build to play, but I knew that PvP would be more hell than Wizard, and I prefer Wizard due to the challenge lol.


PvE as HA veno is something like this, but Barb is better for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTA0lSYIe8&fmt=22

(sorry bout the shameless advertising lol). Generally better in PvE than a normal veno due to the quicker grinding, but at higher levels I'm not so sure. I stopped playing her at 29.


EDIT: also I sharded a ton of evasion onto my character, which is an interesting attempt at a more unique build; if they can't hit you, you lose less exp, and the hp / pdef isn't needed to be as high.

Heavy venos are own at PvP based on theory craft.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Yeah you have a ton of pdef, but way less magic, heal, and defense towards magic.
Theyre extremely expensive to gear. Require a ton of gems to make up for the hp you lose for having to make a huge stretch in stats. Wont damage anywhere near as high as arcane or LA. IF you want a defensive build, LA is the way to go. Heavy is just a plain waste of time.

IWiz - Harshlands

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah you have a ton of pdef, but way less magic, heal, and defense towards magic.
Theyre extremely expensive to gear. Require a ton of gems to make up for the hp you lose for having to make a huge stretch in stats. Wont damage anywhere near as high as arcane or LA. IF you want a defensive build, LA is the way to go. Heavy is just a plain waste of time.

well put. I enjoyed it, at lower levels... never bothered to play a higher level because of reasons like this. Defense is key in PvP, hence why wizards are usually the primary target. and I spent at least 150k on my gear for this character, and she's only level 26. Expensive to boot, and not the best killer against anything but mobs, and that depends on your pet's abilities as well.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsvGKIgiS84

after it processes, heres a magic veno for you, kills way faster than that heavy thing does.

Pemarkre - Harshlands

Thanks for posting the vids. The discussion part is very helpful but that first one was great for illustrating what the HA veno would be able to actually do. The damage dealt seems to be about on par with a standard BM of the same level, but the HP loss was actually a little less when she was under attack by the three werewolf spearmen. Definitely more tankability there. I know I'd be paste if I stood my LA Wiz in the same spot o0; Even my husband's BM suffers a bit more when the mobs gang up.

The frequent pet deaths are a downside, but I think that might be due more to play style - she didn't have her weapons options in her shortcuts which would have made switching to barehanded or magic weapon much easier for healing the pet. Given how well she was tanking I think she could have spared a moment to throw a heal their way. That, and better pet choice for the lead in against DD mobs ^x^; Bunneh go smush.

As for the Arcane veno in the other vid doing more damage... I'm not surprised. I do believe a Herc has very nice attack power, and Arcane spells at 8x must be nice too. You can't directly compare the two since it's 26 with an Adalwolf against an 8x with a Herc. Does anyone have a 7x or 8x HA veno to compare hit numbers with?

I wonder how a Herc + HA veno tank set would work... XD

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

take note the second half were elite mobs in FB70.

if you want a HA veno, ask obsessed, shes 92 heavy and can fit the position.

one of the only higher leveled venos capable of logical and intelligible thought unlike another 90 veno who frequently posts here.
sent her/him a PM hopefully youll get a response later

Lareish - Harshlands

Thanks Tearvalin ^x^

Literature - Harshlands

I don't understand why that lv 20 person wasn't in fox form in that vid. ;o

But if you want to go heavy, why not restat to it later? I kill 7x barbs in DUELS with ROBES. You -70% acc debuff, amp. Do a little bit of kiting, leech when necessary, go toe to toe if you want. But they bleed out quickly when amped.

In a real pvp situation with charms, potions etc I don't die to any melee classes at all. This is in robes. ;o

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

lol i tend to avoid my fox form in PVP.

i rely on my stun and trying to slow him down, you see I have slow on my kowlin just to drive people nuts, lasts long enough to run and get another cast off,

kind of like.. spark->lucky->ironwood -(pet should be pelting with slow and FR by now)->run some-> stun again

sparked lucky usually is enough to set charms off on most people, ironwood leaving a huge spike stacked with FR does losta dmg lol

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Foxform, stunning blow so they are frozen and can't try to run, befuddling mist, leech to keep up your hp. Of course amp and purge them. Go caster form and promptly ironwood so your pet can do more damage.

Basic way to start a fight with someone though of course you will have to alter this a bit based on the class you are fighting. I use this in arcane and it would be even more effective in heavy.

Lareish - Harshlands

I'm guessing the weapon had good attack stats - her HA armor would qualify her for something nice. It probably does more damage than if she went unarmed or with a magic weapon in foxform and did just a standard attack. It blocks her from using any of her abilities but a good satisfying crunch is always fun.

Gah. Seriously, the Wiz LA/Robe decision was far easier for me to make than this one - Veno HA/LA? Arcane's even a nice option except I don't want to walk around with that much of a Here's Squishy beacon on me XD (And yet I play a Mage, wait, what?)

I suppose it will come down to my own personal playing style, since people have made all three armor types work for them. But that's the problem - I tend to favor a caster style but long for some melee work as well. I do love a good sword fight But in this game the swords aren't the best out of the standard melee weapons

Poleblade Veno, perhaps... I could run her FB19 and get the poleblade, and grab the magic sword from the L20 stash box. But whether I'll be able to equip EITHER with her current stats is kind of iffy... She's a little too hybrid at the moment since she can hold the better Magic weapons and is a little laggy on getting the next HA set. Which is why I need to figure out her build before I go any further, and get her out of the Light side of heavy if I'm really going to go that way.

Of course, I could just fudge it and go LA but what fun is that XD I enjoy making things hard on myself for some reason >.>

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Id say all the listed above strategies incorporating FF into pvp are alot more viable on LA builds where you actually can afford to take hits.

On a pure caster like Lit's that sounds more like she's fighting losers lol, a good BM with calamity axes should be able to charge right up to you and let loose a drake bash. Which would hurt alot :P.

Though strictly speaking in metagame its easy to list willy nilly tactics like above,but when it comes to real battle, there is too much variable for defined strategy to be used. Develop new ones based on the enemy youre fighting. It takes quick thinking and level headedness, but its rightfully applicable.

Youre also forgetting: you can be a heavy caster, though youll have gimped damage compared to your LA caster counter part. you dont need to be melee in HA

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

I r in the threadz. I will answer heavy armor veno questions. o.O

I rarely use foxform, if I'm jumping in forform it's because I'm dying.

I still use magic casting. I use same level weapon, so my magic damage is on par to light armor builds. The downside is you cannot use -channeling accessories, though this really does not hinder your ability to kill bosses.

I'm not your typical "heavy" armor(in that I dont use fox skills), more of a Heavy/hybrid caster; I carry around two sets of armor. TT90 robes, and TT90 heavy. I can mix and match to any occasion. With all my +stat gear I had extra points to throw into vit. I'm now at 5k hp unbuffed which is quite respectable.

Using the best melee weapon I could get my hands on, still hits less physical damage then smacking with my magic sword and would not advise using melee weapon without nearly pure STR.

Youre also forgetting: you can be a heavy caster, though youll have gimped damage compared to your LA caster counter part. you dont need to be melee in HA

I agree that you can be a caster, I'm still gonna explode at you for saying I have gimped damage though *explodes* BOOM! Light armor do not optimize their stats, and if they do, they throw the extra points in to vit. Heavy(if done properly) and Light use the same weapon, and have the same MAG, thier attacks will be close to identical.

ask away

Lareish - Harshlands

Oh I wouldn't give up casting entirely, I haven't forgotten that. The thing is though, that while the difference between LA and Arcane might not be much, the additional magic gimp to Heavy would quickly get nasty. So if I wanted to just do casting, I'd have a Light Veno. Given that we have pets to take the damage for us (at least in PvE situations, and some PvP ones), putting on armor with extra pdef doesn't make much sense. Why protect yourself with something that nerfs your magic if you don't get hit? (I am aware that I WILL get hit, in PvP especially, no matter what my Veno is wearing).

Thus, if I continue down a Heavy veno path, I'll be bringing her in for melee range to take full advantage of the armor. I imagine I'd end up working more towards Foxform HA, since Veno isn't designed for weapon melee. Clicking one button and sitting back just doesn't much appeal to me. So I wouldn't be going through it like the HA veno in the first vid, for the most part. I wouldn't mind having that option though The thing is, is it more fun to watch than it is to play, though?

The button simplicity of the Veno is one reason I ended up gravitating over to Wizard in the first place. I love clicking things and there's just more to click as a Wizard. If I go heavy bipedal Veno, though, I'm really not going to have *any* button options, so foxform would be the more appealing form. The problem there is that I'd have to stick to a magical weapon and would lose the pretty attack power my strength/dex would qualify me for in the Melee weapons

This game is really designed to funnel you down certain paths by class Ah well, I'm still addicted.

I'm heading offline now since all I'm doing is chasing my tail in circles now that it's after midnight >.> More clarity in the morning, perhaps...

Lareish - Harshlands

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I r in the threadz. I will answer heavy armor veno questions. o.O

I rarely use foxform, if I'm jumping in forform it's because I'm dying.

I still use magic casting. I use same level weapon, so my magic damage is on par to light armor builds. The downside is you cannot use -channeling accessories, though this really does not hinder your ability to kill bosses.

I'm not your typical "heavy" armor(in that I dont use fox skills), more of a Heavy/hybrid caster; I carry around two sets of armor. TT90 robes, and TT90 heavy. I can mix and match to any occasion. With all my +stat gear I had extra points to throw into vit. I'm now at 5k hp unbuffed which is quite respectable.

Using the best melee weapon I could get my hands on, still hits less physical damage then smacking with my magic sword and would not advise using melee weapon without nearly pure STR.

ask away

I take too long to type sometimes, honestly... ^x^;

I find that interesting, that the magic weapon continues to be better than the melee options. I figured that further down the line that would cease to be the case - up to this point the Magic weapon's definitely been the best one out of the lot. And my Pemarkre's definitely not pure Strength since she's a little behind on getting the Heavy armors right now.

Two full sets of TT Armor... *whistles* Nice. I doubt I'll ever have the time or resources to keep my veno that prepared for whatever a situation brings, though.

You've actually provided me with a lot of insight already. I do have a question though. Earlier in the thread Tearvalerin posted vid fighting some mobs with Herc. I didn't memorize the hit numbers that popped up - I believe they were something like 1500 or 1050 on average in the mobs in the first segment. Have you ever melee'd those, and if so, any clue what your average hit was for? And was doing it safe for your HP bar or just ridiculously reckless? Another vid of a 2x HA Veno showed her tanking multiple mobs well, but does that ability continue through higher levels?

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Well like I said I'm more of a casting heavy veno. I'm rarely in foxform meleeing, so I cant say anything about it damagewise, I havent even leveled majoirty of my fox skills. I just use hammers and axes when I'm bored, but my magic weapon still hits more damage then them(with phys atk). So I cannot help you in that aspect.

As you said above you really dont get hit in pve so it's main advantage is in pvp. My spells still hit far harder then my melee skills as well, so I really dont use foxform much other then for debuffing.

heres my stuff at level 90(only heavy didnt have arcane yet), obviously I've upgraded more and leveled so added points to vit, maybe it can help you make something out of it.
[copied from Reikaras thread]

Gears:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7707/geare.jpg

Stats buffed and unbuffed(barb/BM/cleric):
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9504/statshht.jpg

Peritia - Lost City

Just found this thread; it's late right now so I'll pitch in my info here quickly.

I am currently level 74 heavy veno; weapon is up to date (Sakyamuni's Light), and armour is the TT70 heavy set. This is made possible by +46 to STR/DEX/MAG (total) across various accessories. I intend to replace the +stat accessories with more traditional equipment as I level and can replace them. I also intend to put more into MAG once that is complete, as although right now I have top-grade both weapon and armour, I don't mind if the armour slips by a grade.

What does the build do well? For starters, I have great physical defense - well over 13,000 buffed (>10,000 unbuffed). Although with the heavy armour this brings a reduction in elemental resists, I can change to arcane armour whenever I like, as it has very minor requirements compared to heavy armour or magic swords. I keep my old arcane set in safe, so I can use it while grinding on magic mobs if I so choose. Furthermore, in PVP if I cared to carry both around I can choose an ideal setup of p.def of m.def for any given situation. In PVP, particularly TW, I tend to take a supporting role and I find the extra survivability helps me wade through AOEs to get my Purges and Amps in. I've had admittedly few chances to fully try it out, though.

What's not so good? First, the obvious reduction in m.atk (from high-3000s to around 3000 now if I recall correctly). This is not all that significant in attacking while grinding - it equates to possibly an extra cast. To me, this is nothing as I never chain-cast to begin with, and I rarely use esotericas as I don't level "intensely" very often. I can see some people being put off by it. The other side effect is pet healing. Unlike offensive spells, this is pretty noticeable. Leaving a pet heal off till I see the low HP message isnt a very wise choice anymore, instead I'll often top it off when it's at 50%. I can see this being an issue for people who solo TT or FBs (I typically do neither). Other consequences are a reduced MP/HP recovery rate due to lower MAG/VIT stats but... That's what Nature's Grace and Metabolic Boost are for. No biggie.

In all, I've been quite enjoying Heavy Veno. This reply has gone on much longer than intended though, particularly as I was going to go to sleep.

I look forward to catching up on this thread in the morning and posting further tomorrow.

If anyone on LC is interested in my thoughts on Heavy Veno, feel free to send me a PM or swing by if you see me nearby.

EDIT: One last thought I'll throw in here. I waited fairly late before hopping over to heavy, and I can't imagine switching any earlier than in your 60s. The benefits vs. loss tradeoff would not be as good, you'd have less +stat items available, and you wouldn't be particularly useful in TW.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Your matk fully buffed obsessed is about the same mine is now unbuffed lol. most LAs are slightly under mine o_O;

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Well I am a Heavy Veno and I started as it from the beginning. So from lv1-74 all heavy. It has worked awesomely for me. The only spells I use would be the healing for my pet/myself, and the catch and all that regular jazz. The bramble helps against physical attacks which I mostly tank myself. My pet (Lv 73 Wilderness Lynux) is there if I need to fall back and use extra help. The cat has actually come along way and they said he wouldn't make it from lv7 XD. I use axes mostly and hit up to 6k-7k currently (I need a higher weapon though. My weapons are a bit out of dateb:embarrass). Sure I may take aggro but the damage is lessened when i get hit with physical attacks. As for getting hit with magic attacks, my vit helps with that. That is the role my pet takes. I aggro physical monsters and he does magical (or my other pets). I can kill magical monsters alone but.. I prefer to let my pet handle it if a monster spawns or others attack so I can defend against them and not worry about the one I'm currently fighting. With the magic I just buy the upgrades. So against magical monsters I use magic then strike with physical once it's health is down enough so I can kill it before I take aggro .I'm on a pve server so I can't tell you how it is on the pvp server. b:victory Cheers for Heavy Venos!

And yes, a lot of people have come to say to me you'll never make it with that build (This was when I was lv1-lv50). Now they just give me respect for doing it this long (and ask me occassionally for help with quests). So forget those people who say it can't be done! Show'em it can!

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Based on Obsessed's character stats and equipment, I've been doing a lot of calculations for an eventual guide to a leveling heavy armor build. I'm still working on it, but the idea is to get enough +stat gear to wear the best heavy armor for your level and still wield the best magic weapon for your level.

This is difficult prior to level 70 due to all the armor pieces getting upgrades at different levels. After 70, the upgrades on the best armor (TT) happen at level 70, 80, 90, etc. So the stat requirements can be lowered considerably if you wait a couple levels (which most people are probably doing anyway due to lack of coin to immediately buy a complete set of TT armor). I'm 67 at the moment, still trying to plan all this out.

Prior to level 70, I'd suggest looking for heavy armor with -10% or -15% requirements. Surprisingly, it's fairly cheap to get this off the auction house. It's not a particularly desired bonus so the prices tend to be low.

People don't seem to prioritize +stat gear, so you can also get it off auction fairly cheaply. I'd say 75% of the +stat gear I've gotten cost me less than 15k each, 20% less than 60k (including most of my armor which is 3-star), and the remaining 5% was in the 100k-200k range. This got me into a working set of heavy armor (level 58-66) with a current (TT60) weapon.

To get around the low m.atk problem, I'm putting together two new sets of gear. One for heavy/hybrid which has the +str and +dex stats. And another for arcane which has +mag and +m.atk stats. The idea being that I have enough unmodified mag to wield the current magic weapon, and use the +dex and +str gear to wear the heavy armor. But when I wear just arcane armor I switch to +mag gear which gets my mag up closer to what a pure arcane build would have.

Unfortunately this is a much more expensive proposition. With the one-set equipment, I could go for things like magic rings with +str and +dex bonuses. Most people don't want those. But with the 2-set equipment, I need e.g. might rings with +str and +dex bonuses, which puts me in competition with the tanks and archers; as well as magic rings with +mag bonuses which puts me in competition with the casters. The equipment costs a lot more.

Keep an eye out for various molds and legendary equipment with multiple +stat bonuses on the auction house. There are several in the 20s and 30s which provide +6 or more to the stats you want, and are relatively cheap (I've seen them go for 150k-300k). The evasion ornaments also tend to be very cheap and several have multiple bonuses to the stats you want.

Mezzy - Lost City

I played arcane veno, full vit until 95 with str for weapon/armour and magic for my weapon. At 95, I then restatted to heavy/robe.
This means I always had minimum magic, but play mostly as a caster with a few of the foxform skills levelled. b:chuckle

Lareish - Harshlands

(OP Pemarkre here)

I wish the rest of PWI were here to see how much thought Venomancers are putting into their characters XD

Thanks so much for the input everyone. I wasn't able to load Obsession's images - I think that site is down or something right now. But everything stated has been really beneficial and has my mind working on the issue

I'll definitely be on the lookout for the +/- equipment y'all mentioned. I know I keep getting drops for the -req ones on my Mage, and they're utterly useless to her. Unfortunately they're virutally always Light, which both my characters can already wear with ease. I think I have a -req on a heavy piece that got shoved into storage to Catshop later, I'll have to check into that.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

reuploaded:
like I said it's all upgraded more and I have more points in vit now :P
Gear:
http://i42.tinypic.com/288qx3b.jpg

Stats:
http://i40.tinypic.com/35ap21d.jpg

---

@Tear

Average LA veno lvl 90 stats:
Mag: 270
Str: 94
Dex: 94
Vit: 7
(no bonuses obviously, if stats optimized bonuses will add to vit)

Meaning the magic attack should be nearly identical.. While optimized LA would have more VIT than heavy and less STR, but MAG should be nearly identical.

Sigr - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're also forgetting: you can be a heavy caster, though youll have gimped damage compared to your LA caster counter part. you dont need to be melee in HA

That isn't exactly true, or are you assuming the HA caster is using same level HA?

Using a mix of level 5 and 6 HA (-% reqs), my armor gives me 702 more armor than LA of my level can while still using a current magic weapon. The only "gimp" in my casting is when comparing to an Arcane Mage veno, not a LA mage veno.

With all of my HA equipped, in caster form I have 1740 armor (52% DR), and in Fox Form I have 3062 (59% DR).


The drawback to a HA caster is the challenge of getting it to work while keeping the same level magic weapon, but the pay off is, in my honest opinion, well worth the effort.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Aww, so no one is pure heavy all the way? I iz still aloneb:cry.

Oh well.

Literature - Harshlands

Sigr - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That isn't exactly true, or are you assuming the HA caster is using same level HA?

Using a mix of level 5 and 6 HA (-% reqs), my armor gives me 702 more armor than LA of my level can while still using a current magic weapon. The only "gimp" in my casting is when comparing to an Arcane Mage veno, not a LA mage veno.

With all of my HA equipped, in caster form I have 1740 armor (52% DR), and in Fox Form I have 3062 (59% DR).


The drawback to a HA caster is the challenge of getting it to work while keeping the same level magic weapon, but the pay off is, in my honest opinion, well worth the effort.

I have 1500+ p def in human form with all robes. ;o

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

I have 1500+ p def in human form with all robes. ;o

And how much of that came from +P. Def shards?

Lareish - Harshlands

Obsessed, those are some delicious armor/stats ^x^

The stats on their own look very viable from here, but I'm looking with the eyes of a late 2x Mage, early 2x Venomancer. Out of curiosity, how do they look against a typical Heavy class of the same level as you? Any clue, or can someone with a leveled BM/Barb chime in here?

Also, if you use +MAttack shards on your weapon, how much of the m.attack gap could they make up for, compared to what you lose against Robe/LA?

Although if it's true that you really aren't losing any compared to LA... heh heh. Delightful. (It would be fascinating if it could work the same way for a Wizard - there's a Heavy Mage thread in that subforum. Which sounds far stranger than Heavy Veno, and not something I want to attempt just now.)