Can LA cleric beat Wizard?

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  • thamieel
    thamieel Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    hm...I dunno, I have 40% phys reduction and 73% fire reduction, and it's not my TT gear either...wat is the resistance stats would a cleric with full TT70 LA gear would have?
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    DMG from Blade Tempest shouldn't change too much. In LA you drop your mag res to gain phys res. So while you gain protection from one aspect, you lose it from the other. If your fire res changes in equal proportion to the amount of phys protection you gain.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    i thought i 1 shotted this topic a bit ago b:angry
    *uses sparked sandstorm and topic dies*
    much betterb:pleased
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    DMG from Blade Tempest shouldn't change too much. In LA you drop your mag res to gain phys res. So while you gain protection from one aspect, you lose it from the other. If your fire res changes in equal proportion to the amount of phys protection you gain.

    Don't confuse LA with Heavy, as I said earlier the magic res on LA buffed is just like the robe unbuffed, wich means a regular Wizard's magic defence. Magic resistance is not a dissadvantage it's just not as high as the robe's. Also the phy def you gain is more than double the phy def of a robe. (Robe armor 60lvl = 6x phy def, LA armor 60lvl = 14x phy def - if I'm not mistaken)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    I still think is a wizard does Force of will then sutra they could kill an LA cleric
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • missqq
    missqq Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    spark to resist seal then use sleepz, debuff, spark
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I still think is a wizard does Force of will then sutra they could kill an LA cleric

    If a Cleric is 3 hits by a Wizard then he is a failure. HP is important.
    Here some stats from both LAs and Robes at pretty high lvls: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=264791&page=2
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  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Don't confuse LA with Heavy, as I said earlier the magic res on LA buffed is just like the robe unbuffed, wich means a regular Wizard's magic defence. Magic resistance is not a dissadvantage it's just not as high as the robe's. Also the phy def you gain is more than double the phy def of a robe. (Robe armor 60lvl = 6x phy def, LA armor 60lvl = 14x phy def - if I'm not mistaken)

    I'm familiar with the difference between LA and Heavy tyvm. Compare your percentage gain vs your percentage loss across the board over a range of levels and gears. Your not gaining so much phys res compared to how much mag res your losing that its going to make a signifigant difference on BT.

    If your going to argue your point with anything besides snide remarks and tenacity bring out some numbers. Realistic and Idealized.
  • Keyne - Heavens Tear
    Keyne - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    DMG from Blade Tempest shouldn't change too much. In LA you drop your mag res to gain phys res. So while you gain protection from one aspect, you lose it from the other. If your fire res changes in equal proportion to the amount of phys protection you gain.

    I think you are forgeting about diminishing return. If I go from having 6000 mdef to 5000 mdef, it does not equal the gain for going from 1000 pdef to 2000 pdef. You gain much more pdef for the loss of the mdef. You would hardly notice the difference in you mdef. You will, however, notice the differece in the pdef.
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  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Keyne - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I think you are forgeting about diminishing return. If I go from having 6000 mdef to 5000 mdef, it does not equal the gain for going from 1000 pdef to 2000 pdef. You gain much more pdef for the loss of the mdef. You would hardly notice the difference in you mdef. You will, however, notice the differece in the pdef.

    Its really not going to matter much either way. 27% phys reduction or 34% phys reduction isn't enough to change the numbers much to begin with. Dropping your mag res from 68% to 56% will balance it out pretty quickly.

    Simple way to test though. Get an LA cleric, have a wiz BT. Have that same LA cleric swap to robes, have a wiz BT. If you provide the cleric, I'll provide the wiz.
  • Tryagain - Harshlands
    Tryagain - Harshlands Posts: 716 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    A cleric should ALWAYS beat a mage. There are only a few reasons why a mage would win (this is not a guaranteed win, only a possibility)

    1. Mage has the level 79 sleep spell
    2. Mage attacks the cleric when the cleric has multiple mobs on him, and doesn't notice the mage
    3. Mage opens with a blade tempest on the cleric, and the cleric doesn't notice the mage, and blade tempest crits.

    I highly doubt sparked sandstorm will kill a cleric. The people that are saying FoW is faster than sleep...no. The most powerful spell a mage can use against a cleric is blade tempest. If the cleric is dumb enough to let that get off without sleeping, sparking, using plume shell, or killing the mage before it ends...then yes the cleric MIGHT lose. But odds are blade tempest doesn't kill them in 1 shot. Generally speaking a cleric won't even need a charm to take out a mage with one. Mages cast too slowly, ironheart will heal the cleric to full after each tick.
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If your going to argue your point with anything besides snide remarks and tenacity bring out some numbers. Realistic and Idealized.

    I took 3 screenshots of my stats and my friend's (she is pure int veno).
    She is lvl67 and all her stuff above lvl60, I am LA Cleric lvl66 and my boots are still lvl50:
    Robe (unbuffed) - I know her stats are a lil bit messy but we can still make out an average number no?
    LA (unbuffed)
    LA (buffed with magic shell ONLY)

    As you can see a buffed LA armor is just about the same magic def(even with lower lvl boots wich we all know that it can make a difference) as the robe (unbuffed), also notice the difference between phy def on the two armors.
    Now if regular robes have bad m-def in your opinion, i can't say anything further... i will just dissagree and we both move on.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Keyne - Heavens Tear
    Keyne - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Its really not going to matter much either way. 27% phys reduction or 34% phys reduction isn't enough to change the numbers much to begin with. Dropping your mag res from 68% to 56% will balance it out pretty quickly.

    Simple way to test though. Get an LA cleric, have a wiz BT. Have that same LA cleric swap to robes, have a wiz BT. If you provide the cleric, I'll provide the wiz.

    The problem with that test is the build. Someone that has a robe build will still have higher mdef naturally vs a LA build. you will need to have 2 different clerics for this test.
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  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    I took 3 screenshots of my stats and my friend's (she is pure int veno).
    She is lvl67 and all her stuff above lvl60, I am LA Cleric lvl66 and my boots are still lvl50:
    Robe (unbuffed) - I know her stats are a lil bit messy but we can still make out an average number no?
    LA (unbuffed)
    LA (buffed with magic shell ONLY)

    As you can see a buffed LA armor is just about the same magic def(even with lower lvl boots wich we all know that it can make a difference) as the robe (unbuffed), also notice the difference between phy def on the two armors.
    Now if regular robes have bad m-def in your opinion, i can't say anything further... i will just dissagree and we both move on.


    me buffed against u buffed - 2 shot, 1st being the sleep.
    me unbuffed - same thing if I have chi.
    BTW, I don't know why u use that **** robe build as ref, I have 1000pdef in robe without earth barrier on. With that on and buffed for pdef I'm getting close to 2.3 - 2.4k pdef.
    If a unbuffed wizz is going against a buffed cleric, he's stupid.
    Both buffed or unbuffed depends on who draws first and the player skill. I've seen alot of idiots playing wizz and cleric. If u choose those ones to compare, fine, live in u'r world. Go out and search a wizz geared up properly that knows how to use his skills, we'll talk after.
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

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  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Keyne - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The problem with that test is the build. Someone that has a robe build will still have higher mdef naturally vs a LA build. you will need to have 2 different clerics for this test.

    Minimally. 100 int only give 26 points of mag res.
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    me buffed against u buffed - 2 shot, 1st being the sleep.

    "Keep dreaming, you're one shot after all" <-- that's the kind of the reply that pleases you?
    me unbuffed - same thing if I have chi.
    BTW, I don't know why u use that **** robe build as ref, I have 1000pdef in robe without earth barrier on. With that on and buffed for pdef I'm getting close to 2.3 - 2.4k pdef.
    If a unbuffed wizz is going against a buffed cleric, he's stupid.
    Both buffed or unbuffed depends on who draws first and the player skill. I've seen alot of idiots playing wizz and cleric. If u choose those ones to compare, fine, live in u'r world. Go out and search a wizz geared up properly that knows how to use his skills, we'll talk after.

    You ain't so bright, are you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I took 3 screenshots of my stats and my friend's (she is pure int veno).
    She is lvl67 and all her stuff above lvl60, I am LA Cleric lvl66 and my boots are still lvl50:
    Robe (unbuffed) - I know her stats are a lil bit messy but we can still make out an average number no?
    LA (unbuffed)
    LA (buffed with magic shell ONLY)

    As you can see a buffed LA armor is just about the same magic def(even with lower lvl boots wich we all know that it can make a difference) as the robe (unbuffed), also notice the difference between phy def on the two armors.
    Now if regular robes have bad m-def in your opinion, i can't say anything further... i will just dissagree and we both move on.


    Hang the mouse over those resistances and get the reduction % that goes with it. Should give a much better idea of what those stats mean at whichever level.
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    You ain't so bright, are you?
    hmmm, dunno

    but that kind of reply tells tons about u.
    Keep dreaming and gl.
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hang the mouse over those resistances and get the reduction % that goes with it. Should give a much better idea of what those stats mean at whichever level.

    Hmm 59% - 62% magic dmg reduction and 47% physical reduction for the LA (cleric buffs)
    and 69% - 72% magic dmg reduction and 25% physical reduction for robe (cleric buffs as well)
    Does that help? She uses hp shards though (imo it's a better choice over phy def shards for pure int builds)
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    hmmm, dunno

    but that kind of reply tells tons about u.
    Keep dreaming and gl.

    Do read the post I quoted when I posted those stats, please?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Keyne - Heavens Tear
    Keyne - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Minimally. 100 int only give 26 points of mag res.

    Honeslty did not know that. b:laugh

    Boy, this topic sure has strayed. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hmm 59% - 62% magic dmg reduction and 47% physical reduction for the LA (cleric buffs)
    and 69% - 72% magic dmg reduction and 25% physical reduction for robe (cleric buffs as well)
    Does that help? She uses hp shards though (imo it's a better choice over phy def shards for pure int builds)



    Do read the post I quoted when I posted those stats, please?

    Feel free to fix the math if you disagree. Did it all open to make it easy.


    10% loss, 18% gain. Should mean 8% difference in dmg taken from BT.
    BT7 is about par for lev 80 wiz. 4500-5500 base mag dmg is about normal.
    Lets take a weapon dmg and call it 1000 to make life simple.

    (4500+(170%*1000)+3265) + (4500+(170%*1000)+3265)
    (5500+(170%*1000)+3265) + (5500+(170%*1000)+3265)

    4500+1700+3265= 9465phys + 9465mag
    5500+1700+3265= 10465pys + 10465mag

    Light Armor
    9465*.53 + 9465*.40 = 5016+3786 = 8802 /4 (for pvp) = 2201 Dmg taken
    10465*.53 + 10465*.40 = 5546+4186 = 9732 /4 (for pvp) = 2433 Dmg taken
    Range 2201 - 2433

    Robe
    9465*.30% + 9465*.75% = 2839 + 7099 = 9937 /4 (for pvp) = 2484 dmg taken
    10465*.30% + 10465*.75% = 3139 + 7849 = 10988 /4 (for pvp) = 2747 dmg taken
    Range 2484 - 2747

    283-314 Total change in damage that the Robe takes in addition to what LA takes.


    Blade Tempest Level 7
    Range: 25.8 meters
    Mana: 462
    Channel: 4.0 seconds
    Cast: 1.8 seconds
    Cooldown: 30.0 seconds
    Weapon: Unarmed, Magic Instruments
    Requisite Cultivation: Transcendant

    Focus all of one's vigor to create countless flames that fly towards the enemy, causing the target and all enemies 10.8 meters around the target to suffer both physical and Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 170% of weapon damage plus 3264.9.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    isn't there a thread about how LA clerics suck? ok so now that you are running out of things to make "a cleric pwn a wizard" you go to the build that few days ago you were looking down upon to be evidence that "clerics pwnz wizard" if i were you i wouldve been given up. When things are hopeless i give up. hmmm still playing my wizard b:chuckle
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Himntor - Lost City
    Himntor - Lost City Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Since the cleric forums are close to dead I made this thread,

    Can a LA cleric beat a wizard.

    Ok just for the record, I'm a Cleric and At lvl 23 I beat a lvl 26 Barb soo yeah i think they could kill wizard
  • Xoria - Sanctuary
    Xoria - Sanctuary Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Can a LA cleric beat a wizard?

    Yes.

    The DIFFICUTLY is different by far, but it is possible.
    [In a distorted place and time][The knife that stabbed me in the back grants me wings]
    [I keep looking to the sky][In order to flee from the memories]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    [The world that expands inside of your arms is][///the last secret garden///]
    [If you've already forgotten me, don't forget...]
    [The things that we once embraced]
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Hmm I can't really dissagree (tbh I didn't really get all of the canculations) with the numbers but when I did the test the difference was much highter. Could be a lucky hit, who knows.

    Then again I was the top student on all subjects except maths and any other subject that requires maths (like physics for example) :p
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hmm I can't really dissagree (tbh I didn't really get all of the canculations) with the numbers but when I did the test the difference was much highter. Could be a lucky hit, who knows.

    Then again I was the top student on all subjects except maths and any other subject that requires maths (like physics for example) :p

    Try it 10 times each way.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    you can beat a lvl 26 barb and i can crit 1k on a LA wiz at lvl 66 and beat a barb at lvl 54 (until that summers hammer came out, barbs are a bit harder maybe i should buy a hammer to get the sword.....)
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    (until that summers hammer came out, barbs are a bit harder maybe i should buy a hammer to get the sword.....)

    What are you talking about?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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