Is the game still "fun" without Herc?

Aneemah - Heavens Tear
Aneemah - Heavens Tear Posts: 229 Arc User
edited April 2009 in Venomancer
Just a small observation, but lately the Venos I have seen/heard/met were either accompanied by a Hercules, or were talking to get one in the (nearest) future, leaving the "fun" out of having diverse pets at your disposal. Thus, is there any fun in beginning a Venomancer character with the expectation of never getting the big boy, and use the diverse creatures already ingame at your disposal?

For lower levels, I don't think it is a big deal, but when the higher levels come, what is the expectation of going a "hercless" path?

Thanks in advance...
Post edited by Aneemah - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Reivi - Sanctuary
    Reivi - Sanctuary Posts: 742 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    You may have really good pets, set of different ones for different purposes

    but

    If you wanna make some money, be able to hold your own against some bosses without waiting for some group or paying to get help

    herc is the solution.
    I look at all the trollers, and Pvpers.. and know they wouldnt have lasted 30sec on Camelot.

    Rules= Know your enemy (players and NPCs) gives you more chances to survive.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    There was never a diversity. Before the herc came out, everyone had a golem. Now everyone has a herc.

    I got to 91 without a herc, and it was just fine. You basically just get less places to farm, but farming is never fun to begin with (unless something goes wrong).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mothergoose - Sanctuary
    Mothergoose - Sanctuary Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Apparently, when it came out, people heard Venos with herc makes lots of money, and everyone made a veno alt. They've just about came to age right around now. These are rerolled Venos made by greedy people for the purpose of making money, not first generation Venos made to actually play the game.b:chuckle
  • RainbowVidel - Sanctuary
    RainbowVidel - Sanctuary Posts: 1,316 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    senovit wrote: »
    Before the herc came out, everyone had a golem. Now everyone has a herc.

    I still have a golem. Have no intention of getting a hercules or phoenix. And I'm still having fun with it.
  • senovit
    senovit Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I'll revise that and say anyone who is willing to spend the money on one has one :v
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sibyl - Heavens Tear
    Sibyl - Heavens Tear Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I don't have a herc and I'm enjoying the game ^^. I also like using somewhat diverse pets. I love my diabolic jester, he's a fun little guy to use in general. I also have a golem and he's great too. I don't plan on getting a herc, I don't have good money saving abilities, and I won't spend rl cash on it. Needless to say, if someone walked up to me and tried to hand me a herc, I wouldn't refuse =P. But, I'm loving the game without a herc (or a nix for that matter).
    Level 74 before genies showed up o.o
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Hey, I have herc, but I use a Kowlin to PVP with O:. Not the best PVP pet, but I love my kitty ): Id never trade him for a stinkin chickn either. Chickens cannot PK with me in SP on the rare chances I do go there.
    2009-03-2716-30-24-1.jpg
    best pet ever
  • Yourmom - Lost City
    Yourmom - Lost City Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    89 and I don't have a herc. I might start farming for one when I get to 90. I dunno, I do ok without it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Vulphie - Sanctuary
    Vulphie - Sanctuary Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I think the game is even more fun with a herc, for the simple reason you can do more with one. I have a lvl 75 herc at present ^^. I used to solo TT 2-1 (at lvl 74) with a golem and it was pretty tough. I'm not ashamed to say that Wurlord kicked my butt on at least 5 occasions b:surrender But with herc I'm not worried bout losing an angel cuz I didn't time my heals correctly.

    At lvl 75 my fully buffed herc has 3.4k hp, 11k phys def and 8k mag def...which certainly beats a golem's stats. Wurlord could K.O. my golem in about 3-4 hits...believe me I know b:bye However, with a herc, that amount of damage barely reaches the halfway mark, giving me time to attack and debuff as well as heal. b:cute

    I'm not saying that herc is the only useful tank, just pointing out that hercs make farming and soloing a whole lot easier. The choice is up to the individual ^^.
  • Daerys - Sanctuary
    Daerys - Sanctuary Posts: 1,022 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Fun without one: Certainly. There are still a boatload of things a veno can do well.

    Get one, though, and you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. Assuming you like pve that is, but you rolled a veno, of course you like the pve side of the game b:victory
  • Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary
    Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Well, it does depend on what fun means to you. Herc will allow you to solo a greater part of the game content that you could otherwise and will allow you to gather resources in an impressive way... which is about as fun as grinding. Not that bad in itself but hardly the icing on the cake. I'm guessing that the people that enjoy their herc the most are those that like to use it to help other people with their bosses or on instance runs, or those that are constantly pushing at the limits of what it can do. And these last two things, which admitedly herc can handle better, other pets can do as well. Personally i have a shadou cub and a tabby plumdrop and wouldn't trade either for any other pet. I love using my cub to try out stuff which traditional wisdom has it only herc and magmite can handle, and my kitty makes pulling a lot more fun than a Kowlin would (for me). I know they'll never be top performers but people love them, they like making jokes about them and to *pet* them, and that to me is much more fun than i could have with other pets. I'm pretty sure hercs and magmites don't get cuddled as much.
  • Aneemah - Heavens Tear
    Aneemah - Heavens Tear Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Thank you for your input everyone.
    Sibyl - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I don't have a herc and I'm enjoying the game ^^. I also like using somewhat diverse pets. I love my diabolic jester, he's a fun little guy to use in general. I also have a golem and he's great too. I don't plan on getting a herc, I don't have good money saving abilities, and I won't spend rl cash on it. Needless to say, if someone walked up to me and tried to hand me a herc, I wouldn't refuse =P. But, I'm loving the game without a herc (or a nix for that matter).

    Quite what I expect from the game. Not all pets are equal, or can match to some other in a certain field (tanking, dps, pulling), but still offer certain "exceptions to the rule" (using something else to tank instead a herc/golem, and have success with it) that make the game interesting (i.e. not everyone is running with he same pet)
    Vulphie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think the game is even more fun with a herc, for the simple reason you can do more with one. I have a lvl 75 herc at present ^^. I used to solo TT 2-1 (at lvl 74) with a golem and it was pretty tough. I'm not ashamed to say that Wurlord kicked my butt on at least 5 occasions b:surrender But with herc I'm not worried bout losing an angel cuz I didn't time my heals correctly.

    At lvl 75 my fully buffed herc has 3.4k hp, 11k phys def and 8k mag def...which certainly beats a golem's stats. Wurlord could K.O. my golem in about 3-4 hits...believe me I know b:bye However, with a herc, that amount of damage barely reaches the halfway mark, giving me time to attack and debuff as well as heal. b:cute

    I'm not saying that herc is the only useful tank, just pointing out that hercs make farming and soloing a whole lot easier. The choice is up to the individual ^^.

    This is what frightens me the most. Nothing against herc here but I think it begun to make the difference among the Veno class, making those who do not have it, degraded by both Venos and other Characters.
    Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, it does depend on what fun means to you. Herc will allow you to solo a greater part of the game content that you could otherwise and will allow you to gather resources in an impressive way... which is about as fun as grinding. Not that bad in itself but hardly the icing on the cake. I'm guessing that the people that enjoy their herc the most are those that like to use it to help other people with their bosses or on instance runs, or those that are constantly pushing at the limits of what it can do. And these last two things, which admitedly herc can handle better, other pets can do as well. Personally i have a shadou cub and a tabby plumdrop and wouldn't trade either for any other pet. I love using my cub to try out stuff which traditional wisdom has it only herc and magmite can handle, and my kitty makes pulling a lot more fun than a Kowlin would (for me). I know they'll never be top performers but people love them, they like making jokes about them and to *pet* them, and that to me is much more fun than i could have with other pets. I'm pretty sure hercs and magmites don't get cuddled as much.

    Quite the nail on the head. Mostly fun for me is when you have a game without (to many) cloned characters, or when a certain "item" (may it be a weapon, equipment or pet in this case) starts to make a "discriminating" effect on its own.

    So in he end there is still hope in regular pets when it comes to normal PvE activity, just have to fight for your own place in the world...
  • MentalEdge - Heavens Tear
    MentalEdge - Heavens Tear Posts: 629 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Apparently, when it came out, people heard Venos with herc makes lots of money, and everyone made a veno alt. They've just about came to age right around now. These are rerolled Venos made by greedy people for the purpose of making money, not first generation Venos made to actually play the game.b:chuckle


    Thats not an accurate statement,venos have ALWAYS been about making money,theres plenty of first gen venos i know that have made so much money it'd make you faint,without herc b:victory

    I'm sure theres some who get it because they want to make money,but i on the other hand can't be arsed trying to organize squads to even make my way to lost city banker in this game(an exaggeration there but you get my point i'm sure)
    Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    i would imagine the game to be more fun without a herc or nix as you'd do a lot more experimenting with other pets. i got my nix and herc when i was still relatively low so i missed out on a lot of the fun of trying other pets.
  • Literature - Harshlands
    Literature - Harshlands Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I like the money you can make. b:shocked For example, if I'm getting low on cash I can just do TT squad for like 2 hours and I can make 1m+. This is just in TT 1-2. For example, 1 run yesterday was 300k worth of celestones, 500k golden armor shard (just ONE dropped that run), three ancient serpent skins 200k ea. So thats 1.4m for two hours of work. ;o

    Whats gonna happen when I actually start farming it and don't use it only for when I need money?

    Thats whats fun to me. b:laugh
  • Yourmom - Lost City
    Yourmom - Lost City Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    My main issue is that once you get a herc, you turn into an hh slave for your guild.

    We have one veno who runs probably 90% of our 3-1 runs, and does most of the eden runs to get people their heaven/hell skills.

    I'd rather not turn into that, but I will farm myself a herc once I get to 9x.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Shifong - Heavens Tear
    Shifong - Heavens Tear Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Some people like to use people for their own convenience without ever doing something back. But the herc user can refuse to help out in TT/Eden. So it's up to them whether or not they get used and abused.

    If you're a casual gamer who doesn't give a **** about getting into somewhat higher levels and without goals which requires money, then yes, go ahead and experiment with pets. For me it's a pure waste of time however.

    Owning a herc is definitely more fun then not having one. You get a lot more options on what you can fight and do, and questing becomes much easier.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retsuko - Shifong
    Karmapwi.com
  • Literature - Harshlands
    Literature - Harshlands Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Yourmom - Lost City wrote: »
    My main issue is that once you get a herc, you turn into an hh slave for your guild.

    We have one veno who runs probably 90% of our 3-1 runs, and does most of the eden runs to get people their heaven/hell skills.

    I'd rather not turn into that, but I will farm myself a herc once I get to 9x.

    lol if they pay you for the books then thats ok. But how can they force you to spend hours in there to benefit them? O_o
  • Kiittyara - Sanctuary
    Kiittyara - Sanctuary Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I just got my herc at level 80, but I would definitely be fine without it. Regular pets work great against regular mobs, and if I wanna do bosses I'll just get a barb to tank em for me like I did at lower levels. I actually prefer when barbs tank.
  • Byno - Sanctuary
    Byno - Sanctuary Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I don't have a herc, and I don't plan on getting one any time soon. Even when I do get one, it'll be more to help out friends than because I want one. I just wish people would stop inviting me on TT runs only on the assumption that I'm going to have one :\.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dioica - Sanctuary
    Dioica - Sanctuary Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I still have a golem. Have no intention of getting a hercules or phoenix. And I'm still having fun with it.

    I do not have a herc (nor a phoenix), I do have a magmite, but he is not my best land pet (maybe he will be after I get him some decent skills).
  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Before Phoenix and Herc, most people had magmite and sawfly (I had them too). There are definitely tons of pets to be used, people just don't try them out.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    How much fun the game is to you depends on you. Herc doesn't make it any more or less fun.
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Vulphie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    At lvl 75 my fully buffed herc has 3.4k hp, 11k phys def and 8k mag def...which certainly beats a golem's stats.
    I dont think you quite understand how his PDEF skill works xD. its pdef + 150%, you should have more like ~17-18k pdef, not 11.
  • Zhoelle - Sanctuary
    Zhoelle - Sanctuary Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Seriously?!?!
    It's probably more fun without the Herc! LOL!

    Okay, I can't compare since I don't own a cash shop pet (or rare pet for that matter). The game is fun either way. Herc just makes it easy.
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I'm never getting a Herc, so I can't judge. But I'm more than happy with my Magmite. Either way, my healing sucks so much because of my build that I can't help them tank Uber bosses anyway. So, I turned my golem into a DPS pet. b:chuckle And plan to give him Threaten to mess with things that have Physical attack. Should help him tank a bit better.
  • Aneemah - Heavens Tear
    Aneemah - Heavens Tear Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Some here seem to miss the point of this "question"; little by little, the attitude "no herc = phail veno" is going to be the overall consensus "attitude" about the venos, making it even a question whether or not to roll a veno at all without a herc, and be still possible to enjoy the game without the "phail" prejudice...

    (might be to extreme here, I admit, but such an attitude is slowly building)
  • Vidalaire - Heavens Tear
    Vidalaire - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    The OP's right. I feel it every once in a while. More so lately. I don't have a Herc and most of the people I TT with know that. However, every once in a while someone in the party whom I don't know asks if I have one and when I say no, I can feel that slight attitude of "Why don't you have one?". They don't come out and say it, but it's there. Those of us Herc-less venos are sort of becoming second-class venos.
  • Literature - Harshlands
    Literature - Harshlands Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Aneemah - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Some here seem to miss the point of this "question"; little by little, the attitude "no herc = phail veno" is going to be the overall consensus "attitude" about the venos, making it even a question whether or not to roll a veno at all without a herc, and be still possible to enjoy the game without the "phail" prejudice...

    (might be to extreme here, I admit, but such an attitude is slowly building)

    It's an attitude that has a real reason behind it tho. b:shocked Venos have no real strong points without a herc/nix. Why were battle pets added in the 1st place if what I'm saying is not true? Why does no other class have anything like the battle pets? It all makes sense doesn't it? b:laugh

    After playing this game for about a month now...I really don't recommend anyone roll a veno unless you plan on getting a battle pet because you will be weak in pvp AND pve.

    Archer - Nice crit rate and damage
    Wiz - Damage
    Barb - Insane tank
    BM - stuns / tank
    cleric - healer / always needed for parties
    veno w/o battle pet - ?
  • Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary
    Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Literature - Harshlands wrote: »
    It's an attitude that has a real reason behind it tho. b:shocked Venos have no real strong points without a herc/nix. Why were battle pets added in the 1st place if what I'm saying is not true? Why does no other class have anything like the battle pets? It all makes sense doesn't it? b:laugh

    After playing this game for about a month now...I really don't recommend anyone roll a veno unless you plan on getting a battle pet because you will be weak in pvp AND pve.

    Archer - Nice crit rate and damage
    Wiz - Damage
    Barb - Insane tank
    BM - stuns / tank
    cleric - healer / always needed for parties
    veno w/o battle pet - ?
    Not at all, Legendary pets are meant for extraordinary performance. A veno without them is still the best pve class in the game; we can solo lower level bosses and single mode TT without using pots or charms at all, and can grind far more efficiently than anyone else. While a nice addition, legendary pets are not at all necesary to perform our role in squads as pullers and debuffers. PVP wise while venos were usually considered a weak class before the Nix was made available, there were still some amongst the top pvpers in LC, which goes to prove that a skilled player can certainly manage. If you use Herc n Nix to enhance honed skills you've got nothing but my respect, but if you consider them necesary to function then by all means you're a failed player coasting along on overpowered gear. A veno's role is valuable enough that the elite amongst other classes will recognize good players regardless of what pets they use. Unless it's being used for tanking, a herc provides no real advantage over conventional pets and a party which asks for one without this legitimate reason is probably composed of weak players which half expect a veno to mop up after their mistakes.

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