Quick question

Rustie - Heavens Tear

ok lvl 68 cleric running 20/20/20 btw not for me I was done this quest.
Group is made up of
1 Veno, 1 Mage, 1 Cleric <myself>, 1 Tank, and 2 Archer's <never again btw>

Everything is going smooth until both archers decided to try and out damage the other <both die>
Revive no one says much we keep going, every mob after is a contest to pull agro away from tank.
1 Archer dies again, revive again. each time have to fully rebuff!
We begin to get the feeling there is some bickering going on between the archers.
1 finally leaves party, we do finish and all go our merry ways.
Except.. once we are hearthed I start getting grief from both Archers about
there dieing and wasting charms and time ext.. ext.
I finally get upset with them and try to explain MY role in party is for keeping Tank alive, next Veno if she agro's some damage while luring.
Everyone else is healed or revived after battle and your own your own till then.

Question is Am I wrong in this?
After Tank what is if any the order of healing?
My charm is burning too..Is it ok to burn mine and not there's?
What really is the difference?
And Why does it always the clerics fault?

And just a foot note.. no one but archers died!
And no one but archers complained for that matter!

Frustrated Cleric

Aneemah - Heavens Tear

Well, this is a pure subjective matter, as no one can, or will (except maybe that 2 archers b:chuckle) enforce the rule how to behave. So the closest answer is: after tank is fully healed, it is your own choice to heal everyone else or not; no one is competent to judge you on that beyond yourself...

So, you want to focus on the tank, let he others know and watch out; you want to heal/save the entire party, heal stress test on the horizon. it is your own decision, and you should stand for it...

P.S.
If you still encounter "speedos", just let them die too often, and they will finally learn to "wait" or "leave" in their ignorance (sometimes actions speak more then words)...

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

Rustie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Question is Am I wrong in this?
After Tank what is if any the order of healing?
My charm is burning too..Is it ok to burn mine and not there's?
What really is the difference?
And Why does it always the clerics fault?

And just a foot note.. no one but archers died!
And no one but archers complained for that matter!

Frustrated Cleric

No...not particularly wrong. When I see an archer in the group I always keep an eye on thier play style. If they start firing away the moment the tank has hit the mob in question I *know* we are going to have a difficult time. As soon as that mob is down I call a halt and do a little training with everyone. They may think I'm an arrogant **** for telling them how to run thier group but 99% of the time if they don't listen someone dies...*then* they listen. And it's not due to lack of effort on my part. Most people don't *want* to **** things up. They just haven't learned how to function in a party yet. This applies even into the 70's and 80's. Archers are forced to solo a lot which is unfortunate...they are awesome damage adds. Same with Wizards and in some cases BM's.

In the case of a party that doesn't listen I'll take the heat for respectfully bowing out. For those that do I'll go to the wall for them. A good party that understands roles and has fun is a gem.

Rustie - Heavens Tear

The part most people dont understand, those that are not clerics is I take anyone dieing as personal.
Thats why I spent my spirit to get revive lvl 10 thats why I carry GA's.

RedsRose - Lost City

Rustie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The part most people dont understand, those that are not clerics is I take anyone dieing as personal.
Thats why I spent my spirit to get revive lvl 10 thats why I carry GA's.

If there was something that you could have done...ok then maybe take it personal.

BUT...if you are dealing with "special" people, whatever. Archers are hard in general because they tend to pull aggro with there crit rate. However, if they are good archers, they will know how to offset themselves (ie: taking off rings and belts, etc.).

The tank is your priority at all times. I let everyone know, especially in touchy situations and in groups i'm not too familiar with. In this way, there death is there own matter, not mine. I can heal a full party that has pulled aggro, but it can be a "heal stress test" as Aneemah put it. But you have to love the Pro squads where everyone knows there place and what to do!!!

Life is much happier and easier when people now there roles and adhust accordingly....BTW --> People will tend to blame someone else for there own stupidity b:chuckle

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

Rustie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The part most people dont understand, those that are not clerics is I take anyone dieing as personal.
Thats why I spent my spirit to get revive lvl 10 thats why I carry GA's.

lol...yeah. I've had party members say "don't worry about me" and I usually say "Ok...no heals for you". Almost all of them go b:shocked

b:laugh

That's when I say "Now that you've got the martyr complex out of your system...I'm the Cleric. It's my job." b:victory

Livedeath - Heavens Tear

Archer dying by pulling aggro is NEVER the cleric's fault. Archers can thank us when we save their ****. But cannot blame us for dying. Blame should be blamed on the tank(poor accuracy, poor use of aggro skills, poor aggro skill leveling).

Or blame on the archer for spamming skills. Archers seem to like to have big epeens. "lolz i stole aggro cause i proz" then they do that dumb winged shell and run away and wait for the cleric to heal them before the tank gets aggro back. This just makes the process longer and harder then it should.

If you're fighting elite mobs archers should just use stun arrow and normal attacks. On bosses only the hp debuff arrow is needed and normal attacks throughout. If tank can't maintain aggro with, he fails.

Aneemah - Heavens Tear

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Life is much happier and easier when people now there roles and adhust accordingly....BTW --> People will tend to blame someone else for there own stupidity b:chuckle

Quoted for Truth; and the blame often falls on the "support" class for not fulfilling their expectations of "pro"ness... best way to deal with them is again forcing them to learn from their mistakes (if, and only IF they are capable to do so)...

Alyyy - Sanctuary

oh yes so true so very very true

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Livedeath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Archer dying by pulling aggro is NEVER the cleric's fault. Archers can thank us when we save their ****. But cannot blame us for dying. Blame should be blamed on the tank(poor accuracy, poor use of aggro skills, poor aggro skill leveling).

Well... i agree with your first three sentences. However, you should not always blame your tank.

When you are an archer and you out level your tank, you should reduce your damage output. And you should maybe be careful if you have better gear than your tank. Also, different kinds of tanks have different characteristics (hercs, for example, can have problems holding aggro against bosses which do not hit hard). Also, if you are an archer and have enough open inventory space, you should probably be carrying a level 1 weapon for landing status effects. Also, some bosses sometimes do surprising things.

Also, if you prepare yourself properly you do not always need to die when you pull aggro.

Anyways... this weekend I managed to pull aggro from a herc four levels higher than me, on Soul Banisher when he reached 50% health. I was only taking one shot every fifteen+ seconds and I did die when I pulled aggro (and, because our red bubble cleric was afk, everyone in my party died a few minutes later when soul banisher was almost dead). Our party wipe was my fault for not using a level 1 weapon, and my fault for not reacting fast enough when I pulled aggro, and afk cleric's fault for going afk -- if he had rez'd me we could have killed soul banisher before we all died.

Mr_Grip - Heavens Tear

Here's my take on this. The order in which I heal on priority goes like this. I will sustain and rescue the tank as needed, the next person I place priority on is me. That's right, I will let everybody else in the party die but the tank and I. That's only if I have aggro on me, which pretty much never happens.

I will heal the veno next, they can hold a good amount of aggro from getting to me. So they get healed. DD's pretty much bite it no matter what. If the DD is too stupid to understand how aggro works then they deserve to die.

Mikel_oru - Sanctuary

Mr_Grip - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here's my take on this. The order in which I heal on priority goes like this. I will sustain and rescue the tank as needed, the next person I place priority on is me. That's right, I will let everybody else in the party die but the tank and I. That's only if I have aggro on me, which pretty much never happens.

I put myself above all, if I die then they're all goners then the tank, so in case I somehow pull aggro (it happens if you're highter lvl than the tank, even by healing) i save my **** first even if the tank is near dead, i don't wait till the tank has the aggro again. But that has happened only once in fb39 so...

Still Clerics and tanks are the essential ones in fbs, TTs etc.

Livedeath - Heavens Tear

Clerics pull aggro when the tank misses their first bite at the mob/boss. Ironheart has very little aggro.

Ruby - Harshlands

Rustie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Question is Am I wrong in this?

Nope u did nothing wrong

Rustie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And Why does it always the clerics fault?

They just need someone to blame (usually the cleric is blamed). Its the archer's fault actually if they do not watch their damage and end up dead.

Aneemah - Heavens Tear

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well... i agree with your first three sentences. However, you should not always blame your tank.

When you are an archer and you out level your tank, you should reduce your damage output. And you should maybe be careful if you have better gear than your tank. Also, different kinds of tanks have different characteristics (hercs, for example, can have problems holding aggro against bosses which do not hit hard). Also, if you are an archer and have enough open inventory space, you should probably be carrying a level 1 weapon for landing status effects. Also, some bosses sometimes do surprising things.

Also, if you prepare yourself properly you do not always need to die when you pull aggro.

Anyways... this weekend I managed to pull aggro from a herc four levels higher than me, on Soul Banisher when he reached 50% health. I was only taking one shot every fifteen+ seconds and I did die when I pulled aggro (and, because our red bubble cleric was afk, everyone in my party died a few minutes later when soul banisher was almost dead). Our party wipe was my fault for not using a level 1 weapon, and my fault for not reacting fast enough when I pulled aggro, and afk cleric's fault for going afk -- if he had rez'd me we could have killed soul banisher before we all died.

oh yes, you should have lynched the bustard that ruined your expectations and disgraced your own ability, SHAME ON HIM!!! b:angryb:angryb:angry

Keyne - Heavens Tear

Keeping the tank alive is the most important. I cant count how many times I was in TT with an archer that steals aggro. I usually manage to keep them alive until the tank gain control again, but sometimes they die.
I have a tip for you when you steal aggro from the tank, DONT RUN AWAY. If you steal aggro RUN TOWARD THE TANK. It takes way longer for the tank to get control when they have to chase the mob down. I know this is a hard concept because your instinct it so get away from what is hurting you. In a party, when you are in places like a FB or TT, you need to make sure it is easy to keep control of the situation.

_WillFire_ - Sanctuary

There are very good guides over in the Archer area that should be read. The rule of thumb, however, is that the Archer should evaluate the party strength. When in doubt wait until the mob is at 50%, take 5 *normal* shots, wait 15 seconds, repeat.

I second the person who said "run toward the tank". This applies to any non-tank class. Cleric, Veno, Archer, Wizard...do *not* run away.