Reaching 90, need advice.

Amour - Lost City

So I'll be restatting full int at 90, and I'm confused about what shards to use. I Used the PWI calculator, and it seems with +5 sundown and +5 necklace of the earth (too poor for 90 gold, but that would be ideal) I'll have about 5.7k pdef full buffed. This leaves my gear open to HP shards, and with a full 90 set of +5 with 3 g6 hp shards I'll have about 3.8k unbuffed ONLY. Obviously I'm going to have low HP, but every wizard I see is decked out purely in garnet shards, which brings me to my question.


What the heck is the best to shard? It seems my HP is low enough that without HP shards but at the same time I need more pdef too. Is it worth it to sacrifice ~400hp for pdef? I really don't know what to do.

Any replies are appreciated b:cute

Hidden - Lost City

unbuffed that p.def is better then hp on robes.

u spent a little time in robes so u know how squishy we get. in group pvp we usually get targeted early on. if we die, there goes our buffs and we gotta return to battle with just our earth barrier. in solo pvp thats all we got too. thats why i prefer def shards.

Oz - Lost City

Im using mainly pdef since you can get a decent amount of hp from + on armour, and also huge power neck and 96 cape give extra...

Thing is that every point in pdef you get gets amplified a lot. With your earth barrier and priest buff you get to 260% of your basic pdef. And since you are way more likely to have these buffs in any pvp than wb buff i think pdef shards are a better way to go.

I have pdef shards in my armour parts and hp in my cape and helmet, so its a little compromise.

At 90+ you should have at least 4k hp unbuffed if you want to survive in pvp, thats my experience. Under 4k you just die too easy, many crits can 1-shot you.
Archers still hit freaking hard (despite 6k pdef) and getting stunned you need to have some hp to tank some hits til you can shrink away...

Maybe: If you go full int and dont reach 4k hp with your current gear, consider putting some points in vit until you can get your 4k, it helps a lot, really b:cute

drag0nball

well I think I know a bit how far can go with the pysical defence. If u can get 10 k physical defence with self buff I say thats much. With 10 k phsyc def u will already have 75% reduction and at 13 k only rises 5%. So if u have that muchand spent moneyfor that the HP makes more diference. its pointless to go more higher than 10 k. But I think even 10 k is very high and hard and expensive to get it.

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

Out of pure curiosity why would you want to go back to pure at 90?

Mizorie - Lost City

You restate at 90 because la just doesn't cut it for the dmg you can deal with pure, you can spend a lot more money and time on your 90 gear because its basically your end game stuff.

Amour - Lost City

The only reason I'm not robe right now is because of gear. There are no good molders to buy with chips/for cheap as robes and +pdef +pdef gear is REALLY expensive at 7x-8x, but at 90 you get a HH set thats actually worth getting and it makes a big difference. Why go LA with 3k less M-atk when you could be robes with ~800 less hp and the same pdef and 4k more mdef? All around it's better, especially when combined with level 11 skills. I think I'm going to put in some vit, and put 75-100% pdef shards (till I feel it's enough) and restat the vit out when I refine my gear enough. Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Miss_Tika - Lost City

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

So I'll be restatting full int at 90, and I'm confused about what shards to use. I Used the PWI calculator, and it seems with +5 sundown and +5 necklace of the earth (too poor for 90 gold, but that would be ideal) I'll have about 5.7k pdef full buffed. This leaves my gear open to HP shards, and with a full 90 set of +5 with 3 g6 hp shards I'll have about 3.8k unbuffed ONLY. Obviously I'm going to have low HP, but every wizard I see is decked out purely in garnet shards, which brings me to my question.


What the heck is the best to shard? It seems my HP is low enough that without HP shards but at the same time I need more pdef too. Is it worth it to sacrifice ~400hp for pdef? I really don't know what to do.

Any replies are appreciated b:cute

Yay, Full int b:victory

lol In my opinion, HH90 Gold completely sucks, besides the Wrists and Neck, but seriously they're not much better than green. Bijou is cheap get that.

I remember when you first saw me when i reached 90 with my gear I had really really low HP (3.2k? LOL). After getting some new ornaments and refining from +3 to +5 i have like over 3.7k. I kinda wish I put SOME HP stones into my gear (cape and hat) but Def is just so attractive. Every Def stone you put it, its kinda like you're getting double what its worth.

It's really all preference

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

The only reason I'm not robe right now is because of gear. There are no good molders to buy with chips/for cheap as robes and +pdef +pdef gear is REALLY expensive at 7x-8x, but at 90 you get a HH set thats actually worth getting and it makes a big difference. Why go LA with 3k less M-atk when you could be robes with ~800 less hp and the same pdef and 4k more mdef? All around it's better, especially when combined with level 11 skills. I think I'm going to put in some vit, and put 75-100% pdef shards (till I feel it's enough) and restat the vit out when I refine my gear enough. Thanks to everyone for the replies.

How do you get the same phys def? I went to pwdatabase and wrote down all the TT 90 stuff for both arcane and light (mostly the better stuff was green), and I added up all of the stats, and the light armor had about something like 1k more base phys def, and maybe 2-3k less mag def, plus far better additionals overall. Now I didn't look at any accesories since those vary so greatly, but it doesn't matter because no matter your build you can have the same accesories. So yeah honestly I don't get why you are so gung ho to lose all your defense, but hey difference in play styles I guess. Though I suppose maybe the damage diff might make a difference at that point but I dunno, maybe I'll test it out when I get there, but somehow I doubt its a difference of 3k mag attack, I just don't see how thats possible.

Calibix - Heavens Tear

Coldflash - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How do you get the same phys def? I went to pwdatabase and wrote down all the TT 90 stuff for both arcane and light (mostly the better stuff was green), and I added up all of the stats, and the light armor had about something like 1k more base phys def, and maybe 2-3k less mag def, plus far better additionals overall. Now I didn't look at any accesories since those vary so greatly, but it doesn't matter because no matter your build you can have the same accesories. So yeah honestly I don't get why you are so gung ho to lose all your defense, but hey difference in play styles I guess. Though I suppose maybe the damage diff might make a difference at that point but I dunno, maybe I'll test it out when I get there, but somehow I doubt its a difference of 3k mag attack, I just don't see how thats possible.

The difference in Magic attack is that big. The difference in crit at lvl 90, assuming same gears, is only 4%. Who cares about the difference in evasion, lol. At lvl 84 I have over 2k+ more magic attack than a LA wizard friend of mine about the same level. As far as the defense, you get the roughly the same amount of pdef because of the adds on TT80(hat, belt, neck, 80 robes suck) and 90 gear is a lot of +pdef and reduce phys dmg. A little bit of refining on your pdef neck and belt, put stone shield on and your in the ballpark of a LA Wizard for the value of pdef reduction.

Calibix - Heavens Tear

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

So I'll be restatting full int at 90, and I'm confused about what shards to use. I Used the PWI calculator, and it seems with +5 sundown and +5 necklace of the earth (too poor for 90 gold, but that would be ideal) I'll have about 5.7k pdef full buffed. This leaves my gear open to HP shards, and with a full 90 set of +5 with 3 g6 hp shards I'll have about 3.8k unbuffed ONLY. Obviously I'm going to have low HP, but every wizard I see is decked out purely in garnet shards, which brings me to my question.


What the heck is the best to shard? It seems my HP is low enough that without HP shards but at the same time I need more pdef too. Is it worth it to sacrifice ~400hp for pdef? I really don't know what to do.

Any replies are appreciated b:cute

At least from what I see in wizards from my guild, they still go hp shards. Imo, and others, More hp is better than more pdef because hp won't suffer from diminishing returns like pdef will. Not to mention hp helps against magic attacks as well.

My 2cp.

Rule - Heavens Tear

Prior to endgame HP shards are WAY cheaper than refining. During endgame you'll be refining your gear pretty heavily so I'd imagine that leaves much more room for PDEF shards. After about 10k of whichever resistance you start to suffer from diminished returns, so once you get to 10k (after self buffs etc) no much point to continue sharding with PDEF.

This is so not a LA vs PURE debate. OP is looking at swapping to Pure and wants to know which shards...can we pretty please derail the gnashing of the teeth over build types?

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

Calibix - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The difference in Magic attack is that big. The difference in crit at lvl 90, assuming same gears, is only 4%. Who cares about the difference in evasion, lol. At lvl 84 I have over 2k+ more magic attack than a LA wizard friend of mine about the same level. As far as the defense, you get the roughly the same amount of pdef because of the adds on TT80(hat, belt, neck, 80 robes suck) and 90 gear is a lot of +pdef and reduce phys dmg. A little bit of refining on your pdef neck and belt, put stone shield on and your in the ballpark of a LA Wizard for the value of pdef reduction.

And yet if a LA wiz also does a little refining on the phys def necks and belts, pures fall behind once more. Remember refining and sharding are two way streets, so it all comes down to the base equipment values and stat point allocation. And yeah I ran the builds in the ecatomb character builder and the difference in base mag attack between pure and LA with my personal choice for equipment on is about 2k. If you want to look at my numbers hit the import button and type in these numbers/letters

Arcane: 11s036C0N03im1h2q2r2h2k0k0k0n1r1r
Light: 11s034q1w1whg091m1m1j1i0k0k0n1r1r

Just also remember that these are numbers that haven't gone through mag def yet and that makes all the difference.

Amour - Lost City

+6 weapon with 1 g9 shard (level 90 glaive) difference between pure and LA is 3k. You can add pdef jewelry to LA, but the reduction suffers from diminishing returns, not to mention your mdef will be absurdly low. I think I die to metal skills more than anything else right now, and it'll be nice to have a higher defense against magic than physical for once.

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

+6 weapon with 1 g9 shard (level 90 glaive) difference between pure and LA is 3k. You can add pdef jewelry to LA, but the reduction suffers from diminishing returns, not to mention your mdef will be absurdly low. I think I die to metal skills more than anything else right now, and it'll be nice to have a higher defense against magic than physical for once.

Again the +6 and g9 shard can be added to a LA as well, thus making that not a difference once again. But hey its all preference.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Coldflash - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Again the +6 and g9 shard can be added to a LA as well, thus making that not a difference once again. But hey its all preference.

Huh? That was a comparison where both the pure wiz and the LA wiz had the TT90 glaive +6 with a g9 shard. The pure wizard had 3k more magic attack than LA.

I mean, sure LA could +8 their wep or something, but by that same token pure can spend more on pdef shards and refines. If both players spend the same amount, LA will have more physical defense and/or more hp, and pure will have more damage and more magic defense.

drag0nball

The better the weapon the higher the difference on damage between pure and Light Armor.., With the TT100 weapon fully refined and sharded...Light Armor will hit 30% less damage with the same weapon....so depends how good the weapon is.

Rule - Heavens Tear

drag0nball wrote: »

The better the weapon the higher the difference on damage between pure and Light Armor.., With the TT100 weapon fully refined and sharded...Light Armor will hit 30% less damage with the same weapon....so depends how good the weapon is.

The weapon is completely unrelated.

Your weapons will refine at the exact same rates. Its the SAME weapon. The only difference that exists is in the base magic attack. Which is approx 2k different per earlier posts.

All same equipment the only difference is STATS.

Calliope - Heavens Tear

Not quite, Rule. The formula for your total magic attack actually multiplies your magic and your weapon mAtk. That means that with a better weapon, the value of more Magic stat points is actually higher. At the lowest levels, LA and full Magic deal almost the same damage, but it diverges more and more as you level up.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

What do you mean with 'diminishing returns'?

Rule - Heavens Tear

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not quite, Rule. The formula for your total magic attack actually multiplies your magic and your weapon mAtk. That means that with a better weapon, the value of more Magic stat points is actually higher. At the lowest levels, LA and full Magic deal almost the same damage, but it diverges more and more as you level up.

Right. My bad. Clearly I must take less 'codone. There is some multiplication going on. >.<'

252 int Base Mag att 422
352 int Base Mag att 522
452 int Base Mag att 622

Pure Blade 554-677 Lev 84 weapon

252 int Base Mag att 2760-3279 2206
Difference 686
352 int Base Mag att 3414-4056 2892
Difference 664
452 int Base Mag att 4068-4833 3556

*The last numbers 2206,2892,3556 represent the difference from the minimum damage and the base Mag att with no wep.

Kristoph - Lost City

CeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »

What do you mean with 'diminishing returns'?

The higher your defense/magic resistance go, the less effect more will have. Going from 3000 to 3100 has more of an effect than 4000 to 4100.

It's the reason why Arcane can catch up to LA in pdef at higher levels. Not quite equal, but it's close enough for the increase in damage/mdef to be worth it.

Lyndura - Lost City

Taking some equipment from the thread such as HH90 Green set +5, HH90 Glaive +6 with one G9 Shard, +5 Sundown Pendant; and adding some other equipments like Sky Demon's Pearl +5, I made some builds on the calculator:

NOTE: I don't really know what to use for Helmet, so I used the HH90 Gold one, and some random rings/cape (which won't really affect much).

1.- Shardless, selfbuffed with Earth Barrier Level 10 builds.

Pure: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=70798092a342feb8
LA: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0ccb897a45a1e96c

HP.
Pure: 3,628
With WB buff: 4,716

LA: 3,775
With WB buff: 4,908

MP.

Pure: 9,402
LA: 7,396

Magic Attack.

Pure: 6,437-8,246
With EP buff: 7,264-9,305

LA: 4,854-6,219
With EP buff: 5,681-7,278


Physical defense:

Pure: 3,086 (46% reduction).
With EP or WR defense buff: 3,966 (52% reduction).
With EP and WR defense buff: 4,846 (57% reduction).

LA: 5,737 (61% reduction).
With EP or WR defense buff: 7,335 (67% reduction).
With EP and WR defense buff: 8,933 (71% reduction).

Magical defense:

Pure: 7532 (68% reduction) and 12,296 Earth (77% reduction).
With EP buff: 10,390 (74% reduction) and 15,154 (81% reduction).

LA: 4,708 (57% reduction) and 8,017 Earth (69% reduction).
With EP buff: 6,693 (65% reduction) and 10,002 Earth (74% reduction).

Critical hit chance:

Pure: 5%.
LA: 9%.

2.- Now, adding G6 HP Shards to the same builds(3 sockets equipment).

HP.

Pure: 4,233
With WB buff: 5,503

LA: 4,329
With WB buff: 5,628


2.- Now, using G6 Physical defense Shards with the same builds (3 sockets equipment).

Physical defense:

Pure: 4,327 (55% reduction).
With EP or WR defense buff: 5,563 (61% reduction).
With EP and WR defense buff: 6,799 (65% reduction).

LA: 7,009 (66% reduction).
With EP or WR defense buff: 8,964 (71% reduction).
With EP and WR defense buff: 10,919 (75% reduction).

---

This are actual and real numbers, instead of just speculations. (I have tested the calculator with many builds and different characters, and it is 99~100% accurate).

Hope this helps.

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

How do you all come up with this % reduction nonsense? It makes absolutly no sense to me...

Kristoph - Lost City

Coldflash - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How do you all come up with this % reduction nonsense? It makes absolutly no sense to me...

Lol, ever tried hovering your mouse over the stat? b:shutup

Rinnve - Lost City

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Lol, ever tried hovering your mouse over the stat? b:shutup

Lol, try it in the calc. I myself wonder how to calculate % damage reduction, but no any formulas yet T_T

Coldflash - Dreamweaver

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Lol, ever tried hovering your mouse over the stat? b:shutup

Interesting never noticed that.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Coldflash - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Interesting never noticed that.

me neither

Kristoph - Lost City

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

Lol, try it in the calc. I myself wonder how to calculate % damage reduction, but no any formulas yet T_T

The calculator has that option too, it'll show you the %. And with enough data you could probably figure out the formula. I've thought about doing it myself, but it doesn't seem worth the trouble considering you can't do much with the info.

drag0nball

Calliope - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not quite, Rule. The formula for your total magic attack actually multiplies your magic and your weapon mAtk. That means that with a better weapon, the value of more Magic stat points is actually higher. At the lowest levels, LA and full Magic deal almost the same damage, but it diverges more and more as you level up.

Exatcly thats what I meant...Thanks. the difference will b higher to each levelnot only by puting magic in caharcter, cause of the weapon too. The same weapon just benefits more damage to the pure and teh difference its undeniable with lvl 100weapon specially fullyrefined and sharded.

Rule - Heavens Tear

drag0nball wrote: »

Exatcly thats what I meant...Thanks. the difference will b higher to each levelnot only by puting magic in caharcter, cause of the weapon too. The same weapon just benefits more damage to the pure and teh difference its undeniable with lvl 100weapon specially fullyrefined and sharded.

Generally why LA's change over to pure at 9x when the #'s get to the point of diminishing returns. As a note, fully buffed at 82 I'm currently at 8.9k phys def >.<'