Divine Pyrogram:Your Opinion about it.

Mercenary - Sanctuary
Mercenary - Sanctuary Posts: 20 Arc User
edited April 2009 in Wizard
what do you think?is that a good skill or jsut a waste of moeny and sp points...
Post edited by Mercenary - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • CeliaZ - Sanctuary
    CeliaZ - Sanctuary Posts: 901 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I have it level 10, it is a good starter for metal mobs and of course for your sutra combo. You can use it twice in 1 sutra, so the higher level, the more damage, and well that's always good isnt it.
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  • Rinnve - Lost City
    Rinnve - Lost City Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    what do you think?is that a good skill or jsut a waste of moeny and sp points...
    **** in pve grinding (too slow) but a must have for sutra combo (dp-gs-ss-dp).
    --
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  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    decent against other mages because they have earth barrier up in pvp.
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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  • CeliaZ - Sanctuary
    CeliaZ - Sanctuary Posts: 901 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    decent against other mages because they have earth barrier up in pvp.

    Youshould use glacial then, shorter casting + slow. At your level you should have glacial at a decent level.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Norina - Dreamweaver
    Norina - Dreamweaver Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I like it. It's a great opener, does great damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ((AFK from game. bbiab.))
  • Chocooo - Lost City
    Chocooo - Lost City Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Youshould use glacial then, shorter casting + slow. At your level you should have glacial at a decent level.

    Hence "Decent" and not "Great".
  • CeliaZ - Sanctuary
    CeliaZ - Sanctuary Posts: 901 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Hence "Decent" and not "Great".

    I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you mean. I'm Dutch so it could be my english....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Its good. Casting+channel time is the same as Sandstorm. 4 seconds.
    Against metal mobs it will do the same damage as SS for 37 less mana.
    Its useful in your Sutra combo.
    Its useful against other mages (who have earth barrier up so SS isn't so hot)
    Until around lev 71 its your hardest hitting nuke.
  • Coldflash - Dreamweaver
    Coldflash - Dreamweaver Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I never much liked it, and I only started upping it around 60, then stopped due to spirit being better spent in other places. I still use it in my sutra combo (ss-sr-dp-gs), but otherwhise I don't even have it hotkeyed.
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    At lvl 55 I still find DP a very good opener agains Wood/Metal. DP-G-SR-(G/WotP) puts a lot of mobs to sleep
    ____________
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    He he

    Another thread about personal preference and taste. Is it normal here?

    In my case It was a priority to level Divine Pyrogram. Why ? Well my personal preference :). I used it as opener. Hardest I had at the time. I stopped leveling pyrogram as soon as I got Divine one and I focused on Divine. For some time I could 3 shot most mobs with divine->gush->stone rain, and at that time I viewed using more skills for one mob as bad. Maybe that's because of my experience in other game, where my wizz 2 shot everything for a long time.

    It took me 65 levels to realize, that maxed pyrogram is actually stronger than maxed gush, how much time pyrogram->gush combo actually takes in comparison with Divine and Sandstorm and how much damage this combo does in comparison with those two. (for me, a pure mag wizz, it does more damage except on water mobs, where sandstorm is stronger :) ).

    Now I use Divine as opener on metal mobs and with sutra only, but when my sandstorm was below lvl 10 I often preferred Divine as opener for it's longer range, unless stronger sandstorm let me use one skill less.
  • Oz - Lost City
    Oz - Lost City Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Divine is quite useful as first skill on metal mobs or for metal bosses...

    Later on it becomes redundant as your lvl11 pyrogram will deal nearly as much damage with 10.000 years less casting time
  • Amy_Nailo - Lost City
    Amy_Nailo - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I have maxed my Divine Pyrogram as much as I could and now have it at level 10. I never regret it. Awesome opener and very good in sutra combo once you hit 59.

    Now that I turned 71 I think SS will hit a bit harder on non-metal mob, but I still haven't tested it a lot.

    Personnaly, I think its a really great spell for your pre level 71 (which is quite a long time)

    - Amy
  • Coldflash - Dreamweaver
    Coldflash - Dreamweaver Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Omg am I the only one who always opens with gush?
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Before I spent all my time in the water I'd usually open with pyrogram/divine pyro and then gush because by the time the pyrogram hits gush will be almost done casting so it's almost like a double hit.

    Now I always open with glacial if I'm on land because level 8 is nice damage and range, and 80% slow.
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Norina - Dreamweaver
    Norina - Dreamweaver Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Omg am I the only one who always opens with gush?

    "always?" No way. It depends on what I'm hitting. Definitely Pyro for the metal ones. And the appropriate counter for earth, water, and fire.

    Gush is always a second cast though. Why open with your fastest casting skill? Unless, of course, you're at a wraith event.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ((AFK from game. bbiab.))
  • jemima
    jemima Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Depends on the mob. I generally open with a longer casting harder hitting spell as an opener, than gush straight after for slow. My goal is to kill them 1. whilst taking the least damage, and 2, as quickly as I can. If I open with gush I can't use my heavy damage openers without standing around casting for ages, so I end up spending more time with an aggro'd enemy,
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I never open with gush. ever.
    As jemima, I open with the hardest hit logest cast possible for that type of mob. Gush after. then SR/Pyro , gush(to keep the mob in slow mode for the finisher) , "insert here whatever is needed for finish"
    ____________
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    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Coldflash - Dreamweaver
    Coldflash - Dreamweaver Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Before I spent all my time in the water I'd usually open with pyrogram/divine pyro and then gush because by the time the pyrogram hits gush will be almost done casting so it's almost like a double hit.QUOTE]

    In my experiance the slow is far more effective than anything else. I can understand opening with DP on a metal mob if you have DP leveled, but otherwhise the extra damage isn't worth teh time the enemy isn't slowed.
    "always?" No way. It depends on what I'm hitting. Definitely Pyro for the metal ones. And the appropriate counter for earth, water, and fire.

    Gush is always a second cast though. Why open with your fastest casting skill? Unless, of course, you're at a wraith event.
    jemima wrote: »
    Depends on the mob. I generally open with a longer casting harder hitting spell as an opener, than gush straight after for slow. My goal is to kill them 1. whilst taking the least damage, and 2, as quickly as I can. If I open with gush I can't use my heavy damage openers without standing around casting for ages, so I end up spending more time with an aggro'd enemy,

    In my experiance the slow is far more effective than anything else. I can understand opening with DP on a metal mob if you have DP leveled, but otherwhise the extra damage isn't worth teh time the enemy isn't slowed. But not opening with a slow skill is just moronic imo. Gush slows the enemies movement speed by 40%, and it lands like 92% of the time at lvl 10, meaning its an almost guarenteed slow. Now if you pyro, or any skill, then gush, the enemy is closer to you than if you had gushed then whatevered. I always open with gush no matter the enemy unless it is water, then it depends on level difference and how much my earth spells do to it.

    Using gush first I can make it so I can almost never take a hit, and I still cast sandstorm and stone rain after gush if it is enough of a damage difference to cover the cast times. As for Glacial Embrace, well I've been waiting to level that anymore til I can get it to a decent level for the range.
  • CeliaZ - Sanctuary
    CeliaZ - Sanctuary Posts: 901 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Before I spent all my time in the water I'd usually open with pyrogram/divine pyro and then gush because by the time the pyrogram hits gush will be almost done casting so it's almost like a double hit.QUOTE]

    In my experiance the slow is far more effective than anything else. I can understand opening with DP on a metal mob if you have DP leveled, but otherwhise the extra damage isn't worth teh time the enemy isn't slowed.





    In my experiance the slow is far more effective than anything else. I can understand opening with DP on a metal mob if you have DP leveled, but otherwhise the extra damage isn't worth teh time the enemy isn't slowed. But not opening with a slow skill is just moronic imo. Gush slows the enemies movement speed by 40%, and it lands like 92% of the time at lvl 10, meaning its an almost guarenteed slow. Now if you pyro, or any skill, then gush, the enemy is closer to you than if you had gushed then whatevered. I always open with gush no matter the enemy unless it is water, then it depends on level difference and how much my earth spells do to it.

    Using gush first I can make it so I can almost never take a hit, and I still cast sandstorm and stone rain after gush if it is enough of a damage difference to cover the cast times. As for Glacial Embrace, well I've been waiting to level that anymore til I can get it to a decent level for the range.

    You're 72, why don't you level Glacial snare? That's a real slow. + some real damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Before I spent all my time in the water I'd usually open with pyrogram/divine pyro and then gush because by the time the pyrogram hits gush will be almost done casting so it's almost like a double hit.QUOTE]

    In my experiance the slow is far more effective than anything else. I can understand opening with DP on a metal mob if you have DP leveled, but otherwhise the extra damage isn't worth teh time the enemy isn't slowed.





    In my experiance the slow is far more effective than anything else. I can understand opening with DP on a metal mob if you have DP leveled, but otherwhise the extra damage isn't worth teh time the enemy isn't slowed. But not opening with a slow skill is just moronic imo. Gush slows the enemies movement speed by 40%, and it lands like 92% of the time at lvl 10, meaning its an almost guarenteed slow. Now if you pyro, or any skill, then gush, the enemy is closer to you than if you had gushed then whatevered. I always open with gush no matter the enemy unless it is water, then it depends on level difference and how much my earth spells do to it.

    Using gush first I can make it so I can almost never take a hit, and I still cast sandstorm and stone rain after gush if it is enough of a damage difference to cover the cast times. As for Glacial Embrace, well I've been waiting to level that anymore til I can get it to a decent level for the range.

    well, u have a point with gush/pyro as opener. One can learn new things every day. This might be one of those things that are so obvious u can't see them because of that, lol. I'll try it to see how it works for me.
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Mob movement rates vary so different for each scenario but as an example.
    (Please feel free to correct the math or to work other examples)

    Mob is at 28.5 movement rate 4m\s at a run. All spells lev 10 for this so range is 28.5m
    First spell aggy's mob on hit.


    Gush as second spell
    1 4ms
    2 4ms
    3 2.4ms
    4 2.4ms
    5 2.4ms
    6 2.4ms
    7 2.4ms
    8 2.4ms
    9 2.4ms
    10 2.4ms

    27.2 meters, close enough to hit you.

    DP (FREE) Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) Gush (1.8) =10 seconds At this point Distance shrink or run, next spell you get hit otherwise.
    800% total wep dmg + 6 base att + static dmg

    DP (FREE) Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) Pheonix (2.0) =10.2
    800% total wep dmg + 6 base att + static dmg



    Gush as first spell
    1 2.4ms
    2 2.4ms
    3 2.4ms
    4 2.4ms
    5 2.4ms
    6 2.4ms
    7 2.4ms
    8 2.4ms
    9 2.4ms
    10 2.4ms
    11 2.4ms

    26.4 meters, will hit you before you can cast again.

    Gush (FREE) Pyro (2.3)Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3)=10.5 seconds At this point Distance shrink or run, next spell you get hit otherwise.
    600% total wep dmg + 6 base att + static dmg

    Gush (FREE) Pyro (2.3)Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) Gush (1.8) Pheonix (2.0)=10.2
    600% total wep dmg + 6 base att + static dmg

    Gush (FREE) SR (3.4) Gush (1.8) Pryo (2.3 Gush (1.8) Pheonix (2.0)= 11.3 (you might or might not be getting hit)
    700% total wep dmg + 6 base att + static dmg

    *lost .2 for cooldown


    Looks to me like the hard hitting spell first then gush as second spell is ideal in this situation.



    Mob is at 28.5 movement rate 8m\s at a run. All spells lev 10 for this so range is 28.5m. Mob is Phys
    First spell aggy's mob on hit.

    Gush as second spell
    1 8
    2 8
    3 4.8
    4 4.8

    24.8 meters, will hit you before you can cast again

    DP (Free) Gush (1.8) Pyro (2.3) = 4.1 no time to cast another spell flee or take a hit.
    500% total wep dmg + 3 base att + static dmg

    DP (Free) Gush (1.8) Pheonix (2.3) = 4.1
    500% total wep dmg + 3 base att + static dmg

    Gush as first spell
    1 4.8
    2 4.8
    3 4.8
    4 4.8
    5 4.8
    24 meters, will hit you before you can cast again

    Gush (Free) Pyro (2.3) Gush (1.8) = 4.1 no time to cast another spell flee or take a hit.
    300% total wep dmg + 3 base att + static dmg

    Gush (Free) DP (4.0) = 4.0 3.8 no time to cast another spell flee or take a hit.
    400% total wep dmg + 2 base att + static dmg

    Gush (Free) Pyro (2.3) Pheonix (2.0) = 4.3
    300% total wep dmg + 3 base att + static dmg

    Looks to me like the hard hitting spell first then gush as second spell is ideal in this situation.


    ***Refrence Material***
    Gush
    Range: 28.5 meters
    Mana: 144
    Channel: 1.0 seconds
    Cast: 1.0 seconds
    Cooldown: 3.0 seconds
    Weapon: Unarmed, Magic Instruments
    Requisite Cultivation: Spiritual Initiate
    Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1372.6. Has a 92% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds.

    Pyro
    Range: 28.5 meters
    Mana: 141
    Channel: 1.5 seconds
    Cast: 0.8 seconds
    Cooldown: 3.0 seconds
    Weapon: Unarmed, Magic Instruments
    Requisite Cultivation: Spiritual Initiate
    Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 1379.6.

    Stone Rain
    Range: 28.5 meters
    Mana: 214.2
    Channel: 2.0 seconds
    Cast: 1.4 seconds
    Cooldown: 6.0 seconds
    Weapon: Unarmed, Magic Instruments
    Requisite Cultivation: Spiritual Initiate

    A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 2119.4

    Divine Pyro
    Range: 28.5 meters
    Mana: 300.4
    Channel: 3.0 seconds
    Cast: 1.0 seconds
    Cooldown: 3.0 seconds
    Weapon: Unarmed, Magic Instruments
    Requisite Cultivation: Aware of Principle

    Using the divine secrets of Fire cast a searing spell on the enemy to inflict Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 2994.7.
  • Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear
    Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Does it even matter what you open with against melee mobs? Those things aren't going to get a hit in against you guys anyway.

    Slow is nice vs magic/archer mobs, though.
  • Calibix - Heavens Tear
    Calibix - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Imo, you fail if you don't use glacial as a starter once you get it to a decent level. And honestly, using gush as an opener outweighs just about every other option except Sandstorm against water mobs. Seen way too many wizards waste time casting DP or SS to start on mobs where the slow effect would be much more beneficial.

    This is from my perspective as a pure mag wizard. I have yet to see anyone grind faster/more effective than me that doesn't use snares as an opener.

    To Rule: Your math seems all fine and dandy, but who really uses gush/pyro/gush/pyro? I can only see that being effective on earth mobs. Yea its cheap on mana, but you can kill much better with more thought out combos.
  • Amy_Nailo - Lost City
    Amy_Nailo - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Imo, you fail if you don't use glacial as a starter once you get it to a decent level. And honestly, using gush as an opener outweighs just about every other option except Sandstorm against water mobs. Seen way too many wizards waste time casting DP or SS to start on mobs where the slow effect would be much more beneficial.

    This is from my perspective as a pure mag wizard. I have yet to see anyone grind faster/more effective than me that doesn't use snares as an opener.

    To Rule: Your math seems all fine and dandy, but who really uses gush/pyro/gush/pyro? I can only see that being effective on earth mobs. Yea its cheap on mana, but you can kill much better with more thought out combos.

    After you get glacial snare, yeah its possible. Before, DP > Gush as a opener. What's so hard to understand that the mob is NOT closer to you if you use gush as the 2nd spell ? Yeah, DP is long to cast, but so is Glacial and sandstorm.

    - Amy
  • Calibix - Heavens Tear
    Calibix - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    After you get glacial snare, yeah its possible. Before, DP > Gush as a opener. What's so hard to understand that the mob is NOT closer to you if you use gush as the 2nd spell ? Yeah, DP is long to cast, but so is Glacial and sandstorm.

    - Amy

    There's nothing to understand. As I said from my personal experience, gush as an opener outweighs other options, except maybe sandstorm vs water mobs and DP vs metal mobs. MAYBE. The mob is closer to you using gush as the 2nd spell because they ran unsnared at you the entire time you were casting gush. Simple physics. And its not a possibility with glacial snare. Its a fact. With glacial snare as my opener, any mob I commonly fight against will not hit me before it dies and that's without using FoW or phoenix. Provided its a normal mob and I don't **** anything up.

    Edit: Or Lag. Damn that lag. Calibix needs to get roadrunner back =/
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Imo, you fail if you don't use glacial as a starter once you get it to a decent level. And honestly, using gush as an opener outweighs just about every other option except Sandstorm against water mobs. Seen way too many wizards waste time casting DP or SS to start on mobs where the slow effect would be much more beneficial.

    This is from my perspective as a pure mag wizard. I have yet to see anyone grind faster/more effective than me that doesn't use snares as an opener.

    To Rule: Your math seems all fine and dandy, but who really uses gush/pyro/gush/pyro? I can only see that being effective on earth mobs. Yea its cheap on mana, but you can kill much better with more thought out combos.


    Your awful fussy today Cali. Gush\Pyro is the fastest cast example. Feel free to work those numbers other ways with other combinations. X meters a second doesn't change. Whether to use a particular combination or whatnot is completely up to you. If the 1 second you save is helpful to get another spell or bigger spell, cool. If its NOT then a bigger spell is more helpful.

    I'm not saying play your character one way or the other. Just looking at the most damage possible before the mob gets to me.

    Also please note, GS at lev 5 isn't available until level 65. Lower levs will be trying to figure out sequencing and won't kill things as quickly you do so fastest amount of damage before the mob gets there is an important consideration.
  • evilramen
    evilramen Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    hey rule XD its evil-monkey, hope you still remember me >.>
    its always nice to read your post/comments, i find it detail and helpful ^^
    i always open with GS ever since i got it, i have to say, not even magic atk mob can hit me if it hits...but there are alwayas exceptions T.T
    and for melee mobs, GS, FoW, WoF, hands down, can;t even put a scratch on meh >=]
    but i do use DP alot, only on metal mobs and in sutra. i can 3 shot arum spector or golden edge with DP-P-DP combo
    so DP is a decent spell i would agree
  • Rule - Heavens Tear
    Rule - Heavens Tear Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    evil-monkey its been a looong time. Happy to see your rolling da wizzy ;)
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    He he

    I was grinding on Aurum Specters for some time and made quite surprising observation. Earlier I used DP as opener and didn't even bother to try anything else. But there came a time when I could kill those mobs with pyro instead of DP if I had found some friendly cleric to buff me. (pyro->gush->pyro->gush was enough with buffs). And then it occurred to me that in case of pyro the difference in casting time with gush is very little so it should make sense to reverse the order and use gush->pyro->gush->pyro. And to my surprise it worked worse in case of that particular mob. For some reason in case of the the first order the Specter was selfbuffing very often wasting some time. And in the case of the second it just moved towards me to attack as soon as possible most often.