Comparing Venomancer and Barbarian

The_cleric - Dreamweaver

Alright, so i know that Venos are damage dealers and have bad defence etc. and Barbs have bad damage and good defence blah, but i was wondering about comparing similar skills. I currently have all of the character slots filled in the server im in but a few will open in the next few days so im hoping ill find which character i liked the best by then.



As mentioned above im looking for my character. I've narrowed it down to Barbarian, Venomancer, and (maybe) cleric. (Im going to level my cleric a little to see if he should be considered in the running.) I want to be able to survive well (pretty much all of them), do enough damage to get by (Veno and Cleric probably Barbarian is a little eh...), and be good in parties and as a solo-er ((not neccessairily wanted, but does well in and out of parties) Veno kind-of, cleric kind-of, Barbarian still kinda eh...) Anyway, ill play my cleric for a while and ive been trying to compare somewhat similar skills between the two untamed classes, like fox form/true form (well, if they have some similar skills besides like 3) Also who does the best in Werebeast/Transformed mode, out of WB/TF mode, out of overall. And i guess just whatever info you fine individuals may offer. b:cute

(and yes, i realize how horrible and non-relating to my post the title is...sowwy b:surrender

Coralynxia - Sanctuary

I'm currently playing a LVL 56 Veno and LVL 23 Cleric. All of the six classes obviously have advantages & disadvantages which you seem to be pretty aware of. I like that Barbs and Venos can transform, use Trueform skills, and makes your character's visual presentation more interesting. For example, I often like to run around in Fox form when the moon is out. When the sun comes out, I transform back to caster form. I don't particularly like the fact that you can't customize a Barb nearly as much as other classes. Perhaps character customization is important to you? Although I enjoy using pets with my Veno, it sometimes gets boring using the same ones that you level from early levels to higher levels. It would be far more interesting to hatch pets at higher levels that can statistically equal the standard pets such as Golem, Sawfly, etc. I think the cleric has really cool looking spells, such as their group buffs. Take a look also at class specific items such as Flying mounts weapons and armours. If the visual presentation of your character is important then check out what they will potentially look like through mid to high levels. Personally, I think the untamed flying mounts look the coolest. Hopefully, you'll get a feel for all the classes and find one that you believe will be the most enjoyable. There are going to be times in the game where you will be bored. I think its more important to find a character that you will have the most fun with over one that will be easier to solo or make you the most money or get you into squads the easiest or give you the edge in PK. Good luck

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear

Well here is my opinion:

You say you want to be good in a party and be able to solo well when you want to? You want to survive well? Then be a Fox Veno and forget being a squishy Mage Veno hiding behind a slow Rock. Get a pet with some bite like a Sharptooth Wolf or an oddball gem like a Cactopod.

Why Fox though? Because you can wear both Heavy and Arcane armor to give you a notable resistance to everything, combine that with Soul Transfusion and any potion can heal whatever you need it to and you can survive amazingly well. I have lived through attacks gone wrong that killed our TIGER BARB who was designed for Tanking and nothing but. You also get life stealing, can pull as well as any Mage Veno, are not hindered by [Metal] or [Wood] monsters in any way, and can maim Bosses and tough enemies with Amp Damage making you more useful in a party than the Mage while still being fully capable of soloing when you want to.

I also highly advise being an Apothecary...Those powders are just AWESOME and SUPER useful, normal pots are absolute junk by comparison. Do remember you will need to use Magic Weapons for all your skills but try to get the best Phys Damage you can out of them because as a Fox you deal NO magic Damage and Magic Damage does not count for anything. Also getting high Evasion + Gear can work beautifully with Befuddling Mist which should be one of your main attack skills.

Saint_drake - Heavens Tear

I can tell you as much as i've learned through my 80level experience with venos and clerics..considering barbs only what ive learned dealing with them but not being one:

if you want survivability, damage and doing good solo then you will probably do better as a veno
These little beasts offer a choice in builds and each of them works nicely when used right. On the opposite a strenght based cleric loses a lot of effectivity, and a magic barb..err wouldnt want to go around with that, so those classes are pretty mnuch stuck to a few builds that give any good effects.
Concerning survivability - venos will have the upper side of being able to hide behind their pets most of the time and making a "heroic" escape if those don't do too well, add to it bramble hood to reduce taken damage, a speed buff and the fox form defence addon, it was a rare event that i've ever fallen as one, even though as a magic build it was rather squishy.
Barbarians will rely a lot on their massive hp ammounts and physical defence for that matter, but hp runs out and if theres something you cant handle better hope you have enough of those to run away. Hp charms work brilliant for them, add to it a "pet cleric" and you have a glimpse of immortality (but only a glimpse). If you're good enough (and have enough hp charms with you) you might probably solo a lot of things, but the costs involved..
Clerics well..running one is a bit of an art. An anegdote describes them as "the shy skinny guy keeping behind all the time, doing the hardest job and getting blamed if anything goes wrong". Sure it can do some nice damage, also having a choice between magic and physical damage. Self healing helps survive a tight spot, but nontheless being your own tank is not the safest idea, and will rather not work with bosses - if they use magic it might be possible to survive them on own heals, but hardly finding any time inbetween to deal any damage = taking em down will take eons and massive costs as well. The costs will follow you like a shadow anyway, but there are ways of reducing them, can't always be avoided though. As i've said it's a bit of an art to run one well.
Clerics and barbs will generally do better with the other one standing nearby.
Venos might require some investing at start to get their pets in top shape, but that investment rewards a lot.

considering fox form vs barb kitty form - fox gains only a bonus to physical defence, while true form will raise hp, movement speed and ithink defence as well. On the other hand venos have a self buff for the speed that will work in both forms, though for a limited time. The foxy bonus will work quite wonderful with a heavy armor build, but you'll still need some other means of getting hp up, it rather won't rival that of a barb.

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear

Coralynxia - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm currently playing a LVL 56 Veno and LVL 23 Cleric. All of the six classes obviously have advantages & disadvantages which you seem to be pretty aware of. I like that Barbs and Venos can transform, use Trueform skills, and makes your character's visual presentation more interesting. For example, I often like to run around in Fox form when the moon is out. When the sun comes out, I transform back to caster form. I don't particularly like the fact that you can't customize a Barb nearly as much as other classes. Perhaps character customization is important to you? Although I enjoy using pets with my Veno, it sometimes gets boring using the same ones that you level from early levels to higher levels. It would be far more interesting to hatch pets at higher levels that can statistically equal the standard pets such as Golem, Sawfly, etc. I think the cleric has really cool looking spells, such as their group buffs. Take a look also at class specific items such as Flying mounts weapons and armours. If the visual presentation of your character is important then check out what they will potentially look like through mid to high levels. Personally, I think the untamed flying mounts look the coolest. Hopefully, you'll get a feel for all the classes and find one that you believe will be the most enjoyable. There are going to be times in the game where you will be bored. I think its more important to find a character that you will have the most fun with over one that will be easier to solo or make you the most money or get you into squads the easiest or give you the edge in PK. Good luck

I just want to say you are Awesome. You look at this game in a very different and neat way than most people and I find it refreshing. I also love the look of my Shade and fully agree that our air mounts are the best looking lol. Carry on and show us your style girl!

SilverTease - Heavens Tear

I could say i tried all 3 of them... Was planning to lvl my cleric (now lv45) as my main toon - mainly cause it's the only class with high damage and always needed in a team. My problem was that i got bored the damn low hp of a cleric, and solo grinding is a pain in the ****. Sucks if you aggro 2 or 3 mobs (phy attacks) and you can't do anything but spam heal on yourself to live... cause you have like no chance to cast 1 single attack. Meaning you have to run away, wait til you loose aggro, then wait til you get full mp/hp (unless using charms... which you will burn a lot) then try again and hope you can aggro a single mob. In party it's a bit better, cause you're like the most important class and all team mates will try their best to keep you safe. But again, it's a huge responsability to keep all your team mates alive at all costs and the targeting system sucks big time. If you're gonna rush to heal a team member, most likely you will end up healing yourself cause of the skill delay and crappy targeting system. Not to mention all the mp charm burning (or apo pills or mp pots) which kinda makes the cleric the most poor class in game. Don't forget that if you grind solo on cleric you need the best weap and best gear to be able to handle all the damage taken.

Tried the barbarian and got bored of it around lvl19 (it's kinda... eh... indeed) Unless you're a tank class lover, it's gonna be damn boring to grind when it takes ages to kill a mob. Again - lots of charm burning if you have a lazy healer in party, and lots of mp burning cause 1 buff costs you around 40% of your mp. Also, lots of cash spent on good gears (meaning at least 3* gear with 5 ele def). Same as cleric, the barbarian is always needed in a party, but for that you have to be a damn good tank with high hp, high def and always pay attention to what's going on around you. Personally, i avoid as much as i can to have an "average tank" in a party. I'd honestly rather giving up on a dungeon run then do it with a bad tank. Most people say that a tank is hard to find... i say that tanks are easy to find... a good one is almost impossible to find. So i don't recommend playing a barb unless you really really like tanking (and no damage) - just being an average tiger won't get you in too many teams just cause you're a barb.

Best for lastb:chuckle I gotta say i like veno best if i have to choose between these 3 classes. My main is the veno - caster build with some extra hp so that's what I'm going to talk about. Has a decent damage, can solo lots of things (specially with a herc). Gives you more options, and you can adapt to a particular situation. So you can be tanker (with pet ofc), lurer, damage dealer - depending on the team you have and/or the goal of your team. Can't complain about this class... it still shocks me sometimes. I have to admit i am a bit suicidal (no, im not emo, i just like the adrenaline boost when i try things i'm not supposed to handle) and i love it cause veno allows me that in fox form (recently my suicidal personality made me rush a TT run and it was a success, no deaths in party, and my charm hardly ticked). Good thing about a veno is that you don't have too many things to spend cash on: pots you hardly use (you have hp/mp self heal plus swap) so you never HAVE to buy 'em, gear... you don't really need best cause you don't take much damage on your toon (that's why you have a pet), weapon - if you have too much damage you will end up ks'ing your pet which is painful for a caster veno build. Meaning that all your cash can go on pets/skills. Only problem might be that in a party you have to focus on lots of things: keep bramble on melee classes, chi the tank, lure mobs, debuff bosses, heal pet, tank on pet if needed and might be many more :P If you're going to play a veno as main, i strongly recommend NOT using a mp charm. It's really not needed and it's pretty much a waste of cash. Veno's need to debuff bosses, debuffs are fox skills so you will have to switch a lot between fox/human and that burns a lot of mp. It's enough to have some pots in inventory and mix those with the mp skill and swap skill.

Hope this helps you to choose a class, but remember that w/e you will choose, it will not get you in a party unless you're good at it. Class and lvl are useless if you can't do your job right. Kinda sad, but i've seen lv 8x barbs that can't tank, seen 6x-7x cleric that can't keep a tank alive, seen 8x venos that can't lure (b:shocked). It's important to enjoy the class you play so you can do your job the best you can. So chose what fits your gaming style best, don't choose veno cause i said it's good :P

Good luck with w/e class you will choose b:victory

Fubatsu - Heavens Tear

Hasukurobi is my wife, and I respect her opinion greatly, but I feel I should elaborate more on Barbarians. Like with Venomancers, there are 2 major Barbarian builds that you must consider seperately. The Tiger Barbarian is the more popular for PVE because it's the toughest tank in the game. 'Change to White Tiger" or "True Form" (Same skill) increases your max HP, increases your movement speed, and lowers your physical damage by 25%. Only in Tiger form can you benefit from a passive called Shapeshifting Intensity which pushes up your Defense as well. Tiger Barb attack skills are modestly useful from what I've seen. Tiger Barbarians are very sought-after as tanks, respected for their ability to get, keep, and survive agro from multiple and powerful enemies. They work best in groups where othes can provide the DPS.

The alternative, which is my build, is the Humanoid Barbarian, usually considered more for PVP, but IMO useful for PVE as well. They have more killing power than the Tiger Barb, with no damage reduction penalties and decently strong attack moves, as well as Penetrate Armor, an attack skill that lets them reduce target's defense. Humanoid Barbs are still fairly tough, wearing heavy armor and using Beast King's Inspiration to boost their max HP, but not as tough as their Tiger counterpart. The two barbarians work well as a team, I've found. Humanoid Barbarians are somewhat less sought after, but still desired for their Beast King's Inspiration buff, Strength of the Titans buff, and Penetrate Armor attack. Hopefully, this informaiton well help you decide weather Barbarian is the way you wan tto go.

The_cleric - Dreamweaver

Who would have the least to worry about while bossing? I know clerics get chewed out if someone dies and they have to worry about buffs, debuffs, healing, reviving, etc. Some one said that Venomancer has a bunch of duties? What about Barbarian? Hold Aggro and watch your life incase your cleric is ****?

To Coralynxia: I actually like the customization of Barbs...it isnt INSANELY in-depth. I just want a character that looks decent enough to be killing things.

I like barbarian, the damage is kind of pushing me away a little bit... there is a build that is supposed to make the earlier levels go by quickly but later on they suck because they have such little HP... i was wondering what if you do that for 20-30 levels, then switch to full tanker build? Also, i dont use the boutique, if that changes things at all.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear

Since you're interested in a barbarian I think I'll elaborate a bit more.

A barbarian's tasks in a party:
1. Get and keep aggro ofc. Fleshream is your bread and butter. Roar helps aggro multiple mobs and overcomes healer aggro, but if your party is **** enough to start attacking them, you will lose aggro with roar. Its only powerful enough to overcome healer aggro.

2. Cancel bosses aoe and magic attacks. The tigerform skill alclarity of the beast is your best friend. Its has the ability to cancel a monster/boss's casting. It does pretty decent damage too. Timing it is a bit of an issue since it takes a while to cast and you need to time it right, since sometimes you only have a second's window to cancel enemy casting. (heh, I still cant get it right all the time). Its a barbs second most important task. With our low magdef, the cleric's life is a lot easier if you're not taking magical attacks (I take 9Kish damage from Wurlord's magic attacks in TT2-1).

3. Cast our HP and Patk buffs as soon as they run out. The squishy clerics and the luring venos are ever grateful for the added HP.

4. Chi management. The barbarian needs a lot of chi to operate. I use up one spark roughly every 30seconds while tanking. You always want to carry chi pots for emergencies where if your cleric lags or your alclarity misses and you need to turtle (90% dmg reducion for 30 secs). Also you need to cast chi boosting skills as and when possible between the flesh reams and alclarity to keep your chi up. Unless you have two venos in the party "lending you a hand" b:chuckle

A little more about the humanoid and tigerform builds.
Tigerform is a PvE build, humanoid PvP. Humanoid does a lot more damage, has a lot less HP, grinds faster and cant tank (lower HP+pdef). Is an ok build until 50+ or so, because you really don't 'tank' anything till then. After 50 however, unless you have a strong understanding faction, you're gonna have a tough time getting FB/TT parties as a humanoid barb.

Also about the damage reduction, with a lvl3 trueform, you lose 50% of your weapon attack in tigerform. Thats not as bad as it sounds, since a lot of your damage comes from damage buffs like titans and poison fang.
The actual total damage reduction comes upto around 25%. Not bad considering you get a 30% HP and 60% pdef boost in return.

Also for grinding in tigerform, the two best skills are devour (which at lvl10 imho is better than penetrate armor) giving a 50% pdef reduction to the enemy and sunder which is a self heal. Unforunately however both are chi intensive and learnt well into the game.

Hope that helps!! b:laugh