About foxform, and melee in general

iamjared

Is it possible to design a veno for pure melee and/or foxform with heavy armor? Using a pet to support is assumed here...

Reason I ask is because I love the venomancer class, but am tired of getting squished by phys att classes...

Any suggestions/advice/constructive criticism is appreciated!

sephere

Most people use two pieces of arcane and two pieces of heavy for balanced armor for both m. def and p. def.
Sometimes they buy a set of arcane and a set of heavy, and interchange them as needed.
The mixed option with two arcane and two heavy is cheaper though.

You could go light armor, but the p. def and m. def are less than the mixed heavy/arcane together.

Though if you go heavy/arcane, you have to choose either to have the latest armor or to have the latest magic weapon.
One, either the armor or the weapon will be lower level than you. (Because of the stats needed)

Just allocate stats according to the weapon/armor requirements.

It's your choice to focus more on MAG or more on STR.
DEX isn't necessary to add extra points to, because in foxform you have a accuracy bonus. (unless you choose light armor, which requires more DEX than heavy/arcane)

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

It is possible, and in foxform it can work very well. look for the posts on purefox veno's. there are several builds involving heavy.

Heavy requires to make a choise: latest armor, but lower mag weapon (yeah you need mag weapon, to do melee damage in fox) or latest weapon and lower armor. Anyway, melee mastery and foxform make up for the lower parts, and you have a pet. If you go HA, look for lower requirements added.

My fox is pure melee, and goes light. It's less steady, but keeps a good attack + heal. Arcane + heavy is also an option, but difficult and expensive.

Danni - Heavens Tear

Also I probably don't have to say this but I will. Keep an eye out for equipment that adds to strength, magic, or dex. This will of course reduce the amount of points you need to put into whichever category so you can focus on the others.

And if you can afford it, I'd recommend going with legendary/TT equipment when the bonuses beat whatever's available. With weapons especially the power is better while the stat requirement is usually lower than just normal weapons (speaking of weapons, avoid patakas because there's .25 seconds slower than the rest). Reduced requirements, as mentioned earlier, is another good option that isn't as expensive.

Laranda - Heavens Tear

sephere wrote: »

You could go light armor, but the p. def and m. def are less than the mixed heavy/arcane together.

I've tried to find some combination of gear that allows this. The only way it works is if you can equip the best available grade of heavy and arcane. Without an expensive setup, that means you have to use a weaker weapon or have a heavily tailored gear setup to make up the missing points. The extra defense is minimal too so I question if it's worth the loss of best weapon.

Two pieces of arcane isn't enough to beat light. 3 pieces of arcane and same grade Heavy plate is the only mix that beats light.

The main advantage in heavy/arcane is tailoring your defenses to match the enemy your facing, not to beat light in overall resists.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

The key to getting the heavy/arcane mix to work is to understand that all your armor can never be of the same level. Even if you're running a pure arcane or pure light mix, only one of your armor pieces can be your current level (or 1-2 levels lower). Each piece only gets a new version every 10 levels, so you will always be wearing at least one armor piece that's 7-9 levels below you (maybe 6-9, I don't remember exactly).

With a heavy/arcane mix, you have to take advantage of that. The two lowest-level armor pieces will also have the lowest stat requirements. So you should concentrate on making those your heavy armor pieces. Theoretically, if all your armor were of your current level, light armor would always beat heavy/arcane armor. But because you must wear lower level armor pieces, it's possible for heavy/arcane to beat light armor.

It's not easy though. You have to re-appraise your armor lineup every time you level. Sometimes the best combo will require completely changing your armor outfit. Sometimes there will be no combination that beats light armor. Sometimes you will have to settle for much higher m.def and lower p.def than light armor, or vice versa. And sometimes the best combo will actually use a piece of heavy armor that's more than 10 levels below you.

It's a complex multi-variable problem which is highly dependent on the equipment you find and are able to buy, so it's impossible to make a guide on how to do it. You have to figure it out for yourself as you go, based on the equipment you have available at each level. For the vast majority of people I would say don't bother, it's not worth the effort nor cost. Just level up as a light or arcane build and restat once the level 70, 80, and 90 armors become available to you.

sephere

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've tried to find some combination of gear that allows this. The only way it works is if you can equip the best available grade of heavy and arcane. Without an expensive setup, that means you have to use a weaker weapon or have a heavily tailored gear setup to make up the missing points. The extra defense is minimal too so I question if it's worth the loss of best weapon.

I believe I already mentioned that you have to choose, and the extra defense is better

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Two pieces of arcane isn't enough to beat light. 3 pieces of arcane and same grade Heavy plate is the only mix that beats light.

The main advantage in heavy/arcane is tailoring your defenses to match the enemy your facing, not to beat light in overall resists.

urm, actually the mix of heavy/arcane is better in overall defense,
which is actually the point,
having better defense no matter what you face

though some people do have two sets to match the enemy

Solandri - Heavens Tear

sephere wrote: »

urm, actually the mix of heavy/arcane is better in overall defense,
which is actually the point,
having better defense no matter what you face

though some people do have two sets to match the enemy

If you're working on a "wear it and forget it" balanced heavy/arcane build for leveling, at best it'll only be a few % better than straight light armor. At worst it'll be a few % worse than straight light armor. It's not worth the effort and cost to do that IMHO.

Where heavy/arcane provides an advantage is if you carry two sets of armor, and mix and match according to the enemy. It has no m.def advantage over light armor (since a light build can also wear all-arcane). But by going all-heavy you can get moderately more p.def than with light armor (at the cost of m.def of course).

If you're not willing to do that, my advice is to just go with straight light or arcane, and restat to heavy/arcane when you get to level 70-90.

sephere

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you're working on a "wear it and forget it" balanced heavy/arcane build for leveling, at best it'll only be a few % better than straight light armor. At worst it'll be a few % worse than straight light armor. It's not worth the effort and cost to do that IMHO.

Where heavy/arcane provides an advantage is if you carry two sets of armor, and mix and match according to the enemy. It has no m.def advantage over light armor (since a light build can also wear all-arcane). But by going all-heavy you can get moderately more p.def than with light armor (at the cost of m.def of course).

If you're not willing to do that, my advice is to just go with straight light or arcane, and restat to heavy/arcane when you get to level 70-90.

I don't find it troublesome at all, and I have better P. attack in foxform, which is why I prefer it.
Light armor has better evasion and M. attack.
It's all about what your play style is,
I prefer heavy/arcane, because it suits my foxform build more.

NecroVaL - Heavens Tear

Going pure melee using foxform + Hard Armor is possible.
There's a guide in it. With pets for attacking, you are almost invinsible.

However, the HP is low, and you required lots of str and dex in wearing the armor. Hence, it may effect your weapon, as you are using magical weapon and magical weapon depend lots of mag...

Usually people wearing HA, tends to use lower level weapon. Why? Because the stats point aren't enough to add

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

NecroVaL - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Going pure melee using foxform + Hard Armor is possible.
There's a guide in it. With pets for attacking, you are almost invinsible.

I tried it, but there is one really tricky part in it. Fox damage is based on a high attackrate but little damage a hit. Going heavy, lowers each hit even more. The pets have a lower attackrate, but higher attack, especially the attack pets. So, it's hard to keep aggro on yourself because you don't have aggro skills.
My pet usually grabbed aggro really easily, so I switched to light armor.

sephere

NecroVaL - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Going pure melee using foxform + Hard Armor is possible.
There's a guide in it. With pets for attacking, you are almost invinsible.

However, the HP is low, and you required lots of str and dex in wearing the armor. Hence, it may effect your weapon, as you are using magical weapon and magical weapon depend lots of mag...

Usually people wearing HA, tends to use lower level weapon. Why? Because the stats point aren't enough to add

ok, for one thing, on my heavy/arcane, I let the pet tank.
I send it out first, then attack, I'm only backup dps/debuffer.
Hp is not low, it's better than arcane and light, because the heavy armor has more hp bonuses.
I always use best weapon instead of armor.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I tried it, but there is one really tricky part in it. Fox damage is based on a high attackrate but little damage a hit. Going heavy, lowers each hit even more. The pets have a lower attackrate, but higher attack, especially the attack pets. So, it's hard to keep aggro on yourself because you don't have aggro skills.
My pet usually grabbed aggro really easily, so I switched to light armor.

Err, you get the most phy damage with heavy in the long run, since you can add more to str, whereas with light you have to add more to dex.
You don't keep aggro, the pets are suppossed to.