Collapsing the Wave Pacer market
Comments
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The fee is 2% (on each side, but if you're spending the gold you only care about your side of the transaction), while the markup I'm seeing on mats is closer to 15%. Sell prices for coin on HT hover between 98-101k, most of the time it's between 99-100k.Amy_Nailo - Lost City wrote: »No problems, I understand what you mean. Also even at 100k / per, there's the fee of the Gold Trading (don't remember the exact %) that he didn't take into account, plus the convienence you talked about. I agree 100%. It's like going to the mall, and asking vendors to sell you their stuff at cost price. HA HA HA.
And your mall analogy doesn't work because I don't have the option to drive to a Sears warehouse and buy their stuff at wholesale prices. Here anyone can exchange coin for gold and buy from the cash shop.0 -
i've never understood why anyone would buy the beginner manta from any shop, since it can be gotten down the road at BB for $10k.... selling pet collars for $20k makes more sense, since that is a luxury item, and has to be brought from arch, but this other....?
*shakes head in puzzelment*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
I agree that it is bad for anyone to sell wave pacers at above cost. Obviously those who buy them at extreme prices are those who are new to the game and dont know about Level 30 (5 dull claws to the recluse). Me personally though. I laugh at all the people with cat shops who have all failed to receive any coin from me at all. I farm everything. I keep what I need and sell what i dont. I dont lose money at all. So everybody can keep selling 9k dull claws and 100k wave pacers...LOL, because what I also find funny is how it seems that so many so-called die hard players, have the same routine. Which is 1. wake up in the morning, 2. turn on PWI...3. Set up a cat shop....4. get in their car and go to work for 8 hours. 5. Come home to a whole bunch of lag and no profit from ridiculous pricing that other players like me laugh at you for.
And I am a noob compared to most of you. Im also a dedicated player who solo grinds everything for no loss at all. I dont exploit other players especially new players who may walk away out of getting tired of being exploited. I help out all I can. So to those of you who may see me in the game and need any help, just ask. And on the topic, the high prices really do need to drop drastically. Those who profit outragously in efforts to be the best in the game will always fing that someone else has more money, better stats and has been doing the same alot longer.....thanx for reading. GG to everybody0 -
And i will also add that if I do happen to set up a cat shop of my own with prices below other people, and I happen to receive any hate mail about my mother or threats to me in real life. The sender will get 3 things in return. 1 A special thank you for showing their immaturity. 2. A laugh from me for showing their lack of intelligence. And 3. The false ego sense of being so cool for talking garbage to a make-believe character in a video game. LOL which is truly pathetic and a sign of having no life outside your make-believe world. Ok, Im done...sorry for the double reply.0
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Hmm... um... neither do I? So why no love?Oops hope my comments werent mean and I get in trouble for them.
I enjoy the game immensly, though I dont have sleepless nights, or get worked up over how others play the game. Or get worked up because player A may have more money then me.
The buying/selling aspect of the game reminds me of the old classic "Elite", except this time the trading economy isn't completely predictable and thus is more fun. Not everybody plays that part of the game, though, but that's fine with me.
Now if you'll excuse me, my boss is yelling at me to go flip some more tacos...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
I believe your price was just fine. All those other insulting vendors, they FAIL, seriously.
I mean...
I think that there are lots of people who want to rip you off. I mean, seriously, 9k for 1 hay? I sold mine between 1k and 1500 each and they almost vanished. Fair price. Hay is easy to get outside west archosaur. You don't wanna go kill stuff? Buy it. Easy and simple. But look around, if you think price is unfair don't buy.
And...if someone is smarter than you and sells for lower prices...well...you might consider lowering yours. If not you'll never sell anything.0 -
Actually, selling DQ31 items for 5000 (yes, 5000) will average about 65 sales per day if you are set-up near a quest that needs that item and has no other obvious suppliers nearby. Assuming they are bought for 2000 each from a farmer selling them in the Auction House, that's a profit of 195,000 for 10 minutes work.5. Come home to a whole bunch of lag and no profit from ridiculous pricing that other players like me laugh at you for.
And that's in addition to the money I make grinding.
So, um... yeah. Feel free to keep on laughing. But the truth is that there are tons of people more than willing to pay those prices that you find so amusing.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
I have a script for nightmare Wolfy. Just imagine that when you wake up tomorrow all the people have suddenly overnight become aware of modern economics. They know the rough wholesale and retail prices about almost everything and they know how much of the profit you make of whatever you sell in real life. And you have to deal with these clients day by day.
Ignorance is a bliss man. You tried to crack a bit what's going on on in PW's economy and you failed because to understand most of what you've said the reader have to understand how free market economy works in general. But people didn't log in for economy lessons, they just want to forget the work and play the game. So shall we simply go back to our daily PW doings?
Still great try though. I hope we meet in game some day.0 -
Just how much coin do you have Wolfy? From all these threads that you keep making about scamming noobs, you must be filthy rich. I find it hard to believe that you can sell a dozen of these free mounts overnight for 100k or dull claws for 9750, but you never give any proof so you can just say whatever you want or give a screenshot of your bank with 40 million gold in it b:laugh
So in theory you found a way to make a million overnight, and according to you its real easy, because there's an endless supply of noobs right XD
Seriously why do so many look at these threads about a guy bragging with no proof.0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Dude, I'm level 51. LEVEL 51. That tells you right there exactly how much of a "no life" I have.
Heck, my "no life" skillz are so 1337 that my girlfriend wanted a -*ahem*- different kind of roleplaying last night, and you know what it was? Yup: big bad Barbarian and naughty naughty Venomancer.
So BOOYAH I have no life! (No-life)^2, baby!
lol did you ream her flesh? b:laugh0 -
Sure, no problem. Here's an older screenshot, from back when I was level 33.I find it hard to believe that you can sell a dozen of these free mounts overnight for 100k or dull claws for 9750, but you never give any proof
Total sales: 38 Dull Claws @ 9750 each (370k gross, about 225k net), over the course of a 24 hour period.
I snagged the pic because two things made me chuckle.
First, there's the usual "NOOBBBBBBBBBB" message from some unknown guy named "Namare", who undoubtedly felt completely self-assured that I wouldn't be selling a single Dull Claw for the price I was asking.
Then there's the typical "what a rip off!" message, except it's from my smart-**** girlfriend who must have stumbled across my shop while I was at work. b:chuckle
By the way, feel free to adopt the spot in this pic if you want, since I don't sell at this particular location much anymore. Overall, the profit from this spot is decent, but not the best.
-EDIT-
Just to clarify, 38 sales @ 9750 in one day was NOT typical. This just happened to be a particularly busy day. The average was more like 20.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
im trying to work rout why the heck anyone would even WANT to buy a wavepacer, when they clearly get a free one just by handing over item and speaking to 2 npc's, if their buying for a mount, then clearly their too lazy to do a simple easy quest to get the free one, but if their buying for a re sell purpose, what can i say ....b:surrender0
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Anyone that pays almost 10k for 1 dull claw either
A: already has loads of money on another character
B: is not really smart (to put it politely)
or
C: likes to be ripped off by greedy players0 -
I say more fool the people that buy!
I'm pretty sure I was probably caught out when I was a newbie with the hardcore sellers, but I lived and learned.
I make it my policy not to buy from players named "Shop" or "Mule" when I can manage it, or people that I see day in day out selling Cash Shop stuff all the time with a forever magically restocking shop. It's a good way to buy from "real" players, and make sure your money usually goes to the people that need it, and not just people farming/buying to sell for profit.
I'm an impatient player, in that I can't be bothered to set up shop most of the time, so I NPC my DQ drops for the quick money, even though I could sell them in a shop overnight for twice the price. Meh.
And yeah I b**** at people selling Hay for 9k, as the average on HT was 3-5k, depending in if I needed money quick or not, I sold it at the bottom end of the prices, though I refuse to give anything away, even to guildes, as I need the money for skills and repairs if they want me to TW b:victory
Keep prices fair and you'll sell more stuff, but if you want to pick on the newbies, go for it and I hope the spoilt little rich kids buy your stuff and we can all laugh at them. HAHAHAHA!Proud member of Midnight Faction!0 -
Missebil - Dreamweaver wrote: »I say more fool the people that buy!
I'm pretty sure I was probably caught out when I was a newbie with the hardcore sellers, but I lived and learned.
That's good spirit, keep it up. Please share your experiences. Thank You.I make it my policy not to buy from players named "Shop" or "Mule" when I can manage it, or people that I see day in day out selling Cash Shop stuff all the time with a forever magically restocking shop.
So the brand name of the shop is more important that it's contents. Got it.
And if I should ever see on those mule-shops affordable price items with status adds like "HP recovery +5" "exp +2%" or good 3* gear I don't have then I should resist the temptation and leave them there. Called building up a character. ok, understoodIt's a good way to buy from "real" players, and make sure your money usually goes to the people that need it, and not just people farming/buying to sell for profit.
Got it. down with the profiters. My money goes from now on to the real people with real npc prices. Darn hard to find them but the more it pays the effort.I'm an impatient player, in that I can't be bothered to set up shop most of the time, so I NPC my DQ drops for the quick money, even though I could sell them in a shop overnight for twice the price. Meh.
Again I wholeheartedly agree. Money is the root of all evil- why pile it up on your account. And don't sell DQ's it to the other players either they need the EXP for grinding. Making them grins for it is only doing them a favorAnd yeah I b**** at people selling Hay for 9k, as the average on HT was 3-5k, depending in if I needed money quick or not, I sold it at the bottom end of the prices,
Right on. They need to understand one day that making money too quickly is wrong. Goods have to be cheap. Nobody knows why but they just have to.though I refuse to give anything away, even to guildes, as I need the money for skills and repairs if they want me to TW b:victory
I feel such a sucker compared to you. Some of my guildies have sometimes have just few mats short of forging a TT weapon or making wine for FB59 run.
And I have just bloody gave them these missing mats so that they could get their stuff done get their new set of skills or cool weapon and be better fighters beside me. What I fool I have been, thanks for straightening me out.Keep prices fair and you'll sell more stuff, but if you want to pick on the newbies, go for it and I hope the spoilt little rich kids buy your stuff and we can all laugh at them. HAHAHAHA!
Yes and if you don't get enough mats to withstand that boom of buying which will unavoidably occur then go crawl into the woods and don't come back before you've farmed 200-300 mats for selling fair price and preventing immediate soldout **cough**buyout**cough**. Good people need your sacrifice!0 -
Old Bear, have I mentioned lately that I love your posts?
We used to have Socialists (mis-)guided by the labor theory of value [goods and services should only be priced only at what the labor to make them was worth - never mind the capital needed to make that labor productive]. In this game, we seem to have a Fair Trade generation misguided by a capital theory of value [goods should be priced at a "fair" level given by the amount of coins the inputs cost somewhere else - never mind the labor involved in bringing them into a more convenient shape or place].
Clearly, God is an iron [one who commits irony].0 -
The true sad fact of this story is that the computer gives you a way to harm others without having a true conscious about what your doing. Its easy for a person to take advantage of anyone on here.. thats why the internet is full of deviants. So these overpricers are no different from any online predator out there, they just do it in a different way and it seems they get a jolly from doing it. (making posts on the forums and proud of themselves) Some of these overpricers dont even know the meaning of friendship (one person said it their self, they dont help anyone but themselves) by not helping out his guildys with mats... an ugly soul they have and i'm sure its filled with emptiness in their real lives. b:byeQ - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
wow, expensive claws... only noobs would buy them at that price...0
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XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »So these overpricers are no different from any online predator out there, they just do it in a different way and it seems they get a jolly from doing it.
I'm not sure where you left your sense of morality today, but it's definitely absent from this statement.0 -
Sigh. It all boils down to how much you value your time. If you're a cheapskate and put a very low value on your time, then you won't buy claws at those prices.wow, expensive claws... only noobs would buy them at that price...
You'll head back to town, port to City of the Lost. No wait, you won't spend the 200 and 3000 coin to port - you're too cheap for that. Instead, you'll spend 20 minutes running from that site all the way back to Archosaur. You immediately see a shop selling the claws for 5000, but you figure that's too high. Instead, you'll spend the next 15 minutes shopping, clicking on different cat shops in search of low-priced claws.
Finally you'll find one selling them for 3000, but there's only 3 left. You buy them and continue shopping. 10 more minutes of searching and the lowest you can find is 4000. So you buy 2 more claws at that price. Next you spend 20 more minutes running all the way back.
Finally you turn in the claws, complete your quest, and have your wave pacer.
Net status after all is said and done:
1 hour 5 minutes elapsed.
Gained 1 wave pacer
Lost 17,000 coin (3*3000 + 2*4000)
Same level as before
The "noob" as you call him OTOH values his time a lot more. He sees the price, thinks about it a bit. He's got a job and family to take care of and only has 2 hours to play tonight. He doesn't want to waste it running around doing unproductive and not-fun stuff. So he buys the 5 claws at 9750 and gets his wave pacer. After a couple minutes figuring out how to fly and having some fun with the new ability, he heads back to town (flying of course).
He spends 200 and 3000 coin to port back to Archosaur, then continues the quests he's been working on. He kills stuff for the next hour and turns in a few quests, earning him a new level and 100k in coin, loot, and quest rewards. (I average about 150k/hr when I grind, but let's be conservative here.)
Net status after all is said and done:
1 hour 5 minutes elapsed
Gained 1 wave pacer
Gained 48050 coin (100k - 5*9750 - 200 - 3000)
Gained 1 level
So comparing these two, who do you think is the real noob? Course if you value your time even more, you'll have spent a few minutes researching this upcoming quest out-of-game, and knowing you'll need dull claws you'll have saved them in your bank 5 levels ago and thus wouldn't even have to buy them.0 -
The noob is the person who is dumb enough to pay your prices.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
If the claws were overpriced, he wouldn't be selling any. The fact that he's selling them indicates that the source of the disagreement here is not that his prices are too high. It's that your judgment of what their price should be is too low.XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »The true sad fact of this story is that the computer gives you a way to harm others without having a true conscious about what your doing. Its easy for a person to take advantage of anyone on here.. thats why the internet is full of deviants. So these overpricers are no different from any online predator out there, they just do it in a different way and it seems they get a jolly from doing it. (making posts on the forums and proud of themselves) Some of these overpricers dont even know the meaning of friendship (one person said it their self, they dont help anyone but themselves) by not helping out his guildys with mats... an ugly soul they have and i'm sure its filled with emptiness in their real lives. b:bye
I give mats to my guildies. Heck I've given three Wheels of Fate (they sell for 1.5 million each minimum) to my guildies. I run around randomly buffing people, and help low-level folks (non-guildies) with their mini-boss quests. I'm able to do these things because I don't worry about money anymore. Why not?
I also sell stuff in a cat shop at what I've figured out are true market prices. Yes it's higher than if you found someone who'd just looted the item and was going to NPC it, and offered to buy it from him. But you see, I've already done that for you. I've saved you the time and effort it takes to do that, and put it on my shop so it's quick and convenient for you to buy those items from me. Yes I make a profit off it, but you save time by not having to waste time running around trying to find people selling this stuff. Time you can then spend making more money and exp than if you'd been stuck without those items. It's win-win.0 -
My somebody ate the Sarcasm Cookie for lunch...Oldbear - Sanctuary wrote: »So the brand name of the shop is more important that it's contents. Got it.
And if I should ever see on those mule-shops affordable price items with status adds like "HP recovery +5" "exp +2%" or good 3* gear I don't have then I should resist the temptation and leave them there. Called building up a character. ok, understood
I mean shops that are obviously a mule account, that have 900 of each mat at 5k each or constantly stock basic fashion and cash shop stuff at just above gold price, dumbass. Most mule shops I come across are overpriced aand stock nothing but 100x multiples of mats and that. I ain't gonna buy from a player called MatShop when I can buy from a real player selling off his hard farmed (and not botted like most mules) mats and old or manufactured gears.
I am speaking there from my low level BM, who spends all the money I get grinding on repairs and pots because all the clerics around me are too dumb and/or ignorant to give me a ress when I die. (One actually asked me for 2 MP pots JUST to buff me).I feel such a sucker compared to you. Some of my guildies have sometimes have just few mats short of forging a TT weapon or making wine for FB59 run.
And I have just bloody gave them these missing mats so that they could get their stuff done get their new set of skills or cool weapon and be better fighters beside me. What I fool I have been, thanks for straightening me out.
On my higher veno, I do give stuff away, cos I can afford it. Not all of us can spend 100s of $ on PWI.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud member of the VenoMafia.
b:flower Read my FanFic! b:flower
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=3342220 -
*A delete post featue would be handy, and so would be being able to use the Pound Sign without it glitching and deleting half my post!*[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud member of the VenoMafia.
b:flower Read my FanFic! b:flower
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=3342220 -
Nobody is saying you have to pay those prices. If you value your time so little, you don't have to pay those prices.Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »The noob is the person who is dumb enough to pay your prices.
But obviously other people value their time more, and are willing to pay those prices. You have no right to judge those people, or those of us selling to those people. We're happy to sell to them, and they're happy to buy from us (else they wouldn't buy). What gives you the right to judge a transaction that you're not even a party of?
If for some reason you're unhappy that we're happy, then I suggest you set up your own cat shop there and try to sell dull claws at what you figure are fair prices. You'll find out that if you set your price too low, you'll sell out faster than you can resupply, and your little experiment in socialism will quickly come to an end.
The wave pacer sales OTOH are an outright scam, since anyone who reaches level 30 can get one for the price of 5 dull claws. Those sales are based on the ignorance of the buyer, not the value of the item due to time constraints.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote:Sigh. It all boils down to how much you value your time. If you're a cheapskate and put a very low value on your time, then you won't buy claws at those prices.
You'll head back to town, port to City of the Lost. No wait, you won't spend the 200 and 3000 coin to port - you're too cheap for that. Instead, you'll spend 20 minutes running from that site all the way back to Archosaur. You immediately see a shop selling the claws for 5000, but you figure that's too high. Instead, you'll spend the next 15 minutes shopping, clicking on different cat shops in search of low-priced claws.
Finally you'll find one selling them for 3000, but there's only 3 left. You buy them and continue shopping. 10 more minutes of searching and the lowest you can find is 4000. So you buy 2 more claws at that price. Next you spend 20 more minutes running all the way back.
Finally you turn in the claws, complete your quest, and have your wave pacer.
Net status after all is said and done:
1 hour 5 minutes elapsed.
Gained 1 wave pacer
Lost 17,000 coin (3*3000 + 2*4000)
Same level as before
The "noob" as you call him OTOH values his time a lot more. He sees the price, thinks about it a bit. He's got a job and family to take care of and only has 2 hours to play tonight. He doesn't want to waste it running around doing unproductive and not-fun stuff. So he buys the 5 claws at 9750 and gets his wave pacer. After a couple minutes figuring out how to fly and having some fun with the new ability, he heads back to town (flying of course).
He spends 200 and 3000 coin to port back to Archosaur, then continues the quests he's been working on. He kills stuff for the next hour and turns in a few quests, earning him a new level and 100k in coin, loot, and quest rewards. (I average about 150k/hr when I grind, but let's be conservative here.)
Net status after all is said and done:
1 hour 5 minutes elapsed
Gained 1 wave pacer
Gained 48050 coin (100k - 5*9750 - 200 - 3000)
Gained 1 level
So comparing these two, who do you think is the real noob? Course if you value your time even more, you'll have spent a few minutes researching this upcoming quest out-of-game, and knowing you'll need dull claws you'll have saved them in your bank 5 levels ago and thus wouldn't even have to buy them.
judging from this long post of yours, you obviously do not value your time. btw, if you do your quests, you should have enough dull claws anyway.0 -
I remember now seeing WarrenWolfy's cat shop when one of my alts came to that quest without having the claws. I happen to fit Solandri's hypothetical pretty closely and I remember debating buying the claws or running back for them. I ended up deciding I could save enough buying in Arch to make it worthwhile, but it was a very close call. I also remember being impressed with how well he had priced the claws to capture the convenience value.0
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Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »The wave pacer sales OTOH are an outright scam, since anyone who reaches level 30 can get one for the price of 5 dull claws. Those sales are based on the ignorance of the buyer, not the value of the item due to time constraints.
Your argument is totally flawed because of this
What if someone DECIDES to pay 100k for a wave pacer because he values the dull claw at 20k each ? 20k X 5 = 100k, plus the time he would need to buy the dull claw. 20k is too much ? You just said you have no right to judge a transaction you're not a part of.Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »But obviously other people value their time more, and are willing to pay those prices. You have no right to judge those people, or those of us selling to those people. We're happy to sell to them, and they're happy to buy from us (else they wouldn't buy). What gives you the right to judge a transaction that you're not even a party of?
You just destroyed your own argument, so please, stop. Just stop arguing. You're WRONG. On top of that, you fight against something you do yourself.
- Amy
EDIT: Another quote from you again to prove my pointNobody is saying you have to pay those prices. If you value your time so little, you don't have to pay those prices.0 -
Interesting! But I really can't take any credit for setting the price.Bobncut - Sanctuary wrote: »I remember now seeing WarrenWolfy's cat shop when one of my alts came to that quest without having the claws. I happen to fit Solandri's hypothetical pretty closely and I remember debating buying the claws or running back for them. I ended up deciding I could save enough buying in Arch to make it worthwhile, but it was a very close call. I also remember being impressed with how well he had priced the claws to capture the convenience value.
My price started at 5000, but I kept having to raise it in order to lower demand because I kept selling out almost right away. At 10000 there's a big psychological barrier that slows sales down, so 9750 seemed to be about the limit.
After I got a large supply and didn't need to worry about selling out I even tried lowering prices to increase volume, but what I found was that volume did not increase enough to offset the reduced profit per Claw sold.
So, basically, the market set that price. I don't know if that's still the best price for that location because I haven't sold there in awhile and perhaps the economy of Sanctuary has changed since then. Plus, there may be competition now, which would clearly be the best way to lower prices.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
This is the single most brilliantly dark thing I've read in ages. It captures the fullness of all that is the new "moral ethic" of the me-me-me-entitlement generation. There is no possible reply to this. One must simply look upon it and bask in its radiance.XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »So these overpricers are no different from any online predator out there, they just do it in a different way and it seems they get a jolly from doing it. (making posts on the forums and proud of themselves) Some of these overpricers dont even know the meaning of friendship (one person said it their self, they dont help anyone but themselves) by not helping out his guildys with mats... an ugly soul they have and i'm sure its filled with emptiness in their real lives. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0
![http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/jjeshop/artemis.png[/SIGPIC]](http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/jjeshop/artemis.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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