Venomancers or clerics?

bustyglory

Which one should I pick?

bustyglory

also what are the cleric build?

pantheraonca

well i guess ven. would have better bust since the "wild and untamed" always have bigger ones...

other stuff would depend on how you like to play. check out the stickies in each forum before you decide

pantheraonca

oh, rite, cleric build, forgot about that

it can be 9/1 mag/str
8/1/1 mag/str/vit
and more
basically lots of magic, and some vitality+strength


and... about my last post... i saw your nickname under your subject title, so i thought you were asking:
"veromancers or clerics: bustyglory"
lol... i thought you were askin about bust size...

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

It depends. I'll break it down for you.

Venomancer: Best solo class in the game. Best money making class in the game. Least costing class in the game (unless you get herc/phoenix). Best pvp class in the game (if you get phoenix).

Cleric: Average solo class. Worst money making class in the game. Most costing class in the game. Average pvp class.

If you have real life money to spend, cleric is not a problem. If you don't, it will be a problem in some situations. Venomancer on the other hand, you could go from 1-100 without ever spending 1$ on the game and never need to.

So up to you. Personally, knowing what i know now, i might have rolled a veno as my first character, and cleric as second.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

I'd have to disagree with you Faustinna, since level 47 NO mob has been able to hit me hard enough to go past my Ironheart blessing.
Clerics are extreamly good In PvP some refuse to believe that but we do, that is a fact.
Maybe like this happend to me, someone convinced you that clerics were support classes? they gave you a support class build told you to get all your buffs and heals over attack spells making soloing harder for you?
Some people are like that, ignore em clerics are great solo classes, they fit just under a Veno

Enina - Heavens Tear

Clerics can quite easily solo. In fact, the only mobs that can cause us particular grief are the Increased Defence physical metal-aligned mobs, of which there aren't THAT many in the game. Heck, I solo most of the time and I only see wizards being more efficient in taking down a mob fast (or a veno with herc/phoenix).

However, in squads, venos are mostly used for lures - just about any veno can lure as soon as they're told the very basic principle of luring. A cleric, however, have to be able to juggly purifying, tank-healing, squad-healing, buffs and revives; timing all of it to make sure that the party stays alive as much as possible, and know when to heal, when to purify and when to run away screaming to avoid an entire dungeon party to be wiped utterly off the face of the earth (if the cleric survives the fight, s/he can revive the dead ones).

Keep in mind, though, that a veno can also tank with a powerful pet. And that a veno can heal another veno's pet when/if needed.

As a soloer, in pure terms of surviability, a venomancer is best because they can use their own, personal tank to keep the mob away. The biggest problem a venomancer can have in such cases are when they steal aggro from the monster - making the monster run at them. If the pet dies, well... The venomancer still has enough time to run away and get to safety.

A cleric, on the other hand, has the mob coming right at them.

If you're a newcomer to the game, I'd recommend a venomancer - simply because they are easier to learn how to play due to the added survivability. It's much easier to learn how to be a good veno, than how to be a good cleric.

As for builds, you can go Light Armour (LA) or Arcane Armour (AA). The LA build, for both venomancers and clerics, gives a mix of physical and magical defences, which makes you a bit more versatile. However, you need a high magic stat for both in order to be able to deal damage, as well to use your weapon. Every level gives you 5 stat points to distribute to your liking - if you play as a LA build (no matter the class), then you MUST put 1 point into Strength and 1 point into Dexterity per level, or you can't use your armour (or have to make do with a much lower-grade one).

The AA build just needs 0.5 strength per level, meaning one point per 2 levels, and thus gives you 9 points to fiddle around with as you like - for vitality, or, particularly, magic. The higher magic you have, the more damage you can do and the more efficient your spells are.

Because venomancers can use a pet as a tank, vitality is of less importance to them - and they can use those points on magic. Clerics, however, need vitality because they don't have the "buffer" in form of a tanker.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I was wondering when playing cleric in squads do they get yelled alot if they aren't healing because someone broke aggro as well are they the only one who can use res?I play another game which I playing healing class and it is not easy as we get yelled and sometimes we prefer not to take res as thet slot can be used for something especially in pvp.

Enina - Heavens Tear

Clerics are the ONLY class that can revive. They are, however, NOT the only class that can heal (Venomancers and Wizards are both capable of healing - but it takes a long time to cast, has a very long cooldown, and isn't stackable like the cleric's healing).

Revive, however, is an essential skill for a cleric. Not only does it revive someone, the higher level revive can also reduce the exp penalty for dying. Trust me, that reduction counts and is visible...

And yes, clerics do get yelled at, in particular by those who haven't tried a cleric themselves. The most common problems are when someone dies - from a one-shot AOE attack, for instance, that kills off the wizard or archer. Another example is if the squad runs into a too-strong boss that the cleric's heals can't keep up with, or if the squad gets swarmed by mobs and the cleric can't heal everyone fast enough to prevent all but one or two from dying. Because the cleric is the healer, it's inadvertly responsible for keeping people alive - and if something goes wrong, it's too easy to blame the cleric. Rather than, say, blame the archer for stealing aggro and sending the monster rampaging through the group.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you Faustinna, since level 47 NO mob has been able to hit me hard enough to go past my Ironheart blessing.
Clerics are extreamly good In PvP some refuse to believe that but we do, that is a fact.
Maybe like this happend to me, someone convinced you that clerics were support classes? they gave you a support class build told you to get all your buffs and heals over attack spells making soloing harder for you?
Some people are like that, ignore em clerics are great solo classes, they fit just under a Veno

I wonder what this has to do with anything i said...i can solo fine on my cleric, i never said otherwise. But veno's do it better. I can pvp fine on my cleric, but veno's do it better. Your entire post doesn't counter anything i said. You pretty much agree with me that clerics come under veno.

The point is not that clerics are a great solo class, is that they are an expensive one when you compare them to veno's. You will be out of mana after a few mobs if you don't use charms. But a veno doesn't even need it.

Put it this way, the players with the most coin in the game on each server are venomancers. There are numerous threads about people complaining about veno's and phoenix in pvp and how veno's can solo things no one else can. There are zero threads complaining about how over powered clerics are. Because we are not.

Veno is simply put the stronger of the two classes both for pve and pvp if you plan to solo. There is no argument there.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Oh no sorry Faustinna I only assumed you were saying that clerics were an "Average solo - PvP class"

I was only stateing they were better than average, ty

Mikel_oru - Sanctuary

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Veno is simply put the stronger of the two classes both for pve and pvp if you plan to solo. There is no argument there.

I'll dissagree on the PvP part, Venos are not so great in PvP, well I have no idea how a Phoenix is or it's dmg output but Clerics can 3 or 4 hit a Veno, I'm LA wich means low dmg(compared to robe builds) and still I 3 hit a friend of mine that is 5 lvls highter than me, without even spark, i just stacked 2 ironhearts and plume shell in the beginning and have her golem and her hitting me but not fast enough to beat me - I repeat, I don't know how a Phoenix is but even then if Venos depend only on an overpowered pet it doesn't make them such a great PvP class. Not to mention that not everyone can actually efford a Phoenix or a Hercules.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh no sorry Faustinna I only assumed you were saying that clerics were an "Average solo - PvP class"

I was only stateing they were better than average, ty

Better then average would mean then who is average at solo pvp class? BM's do great in pvp with stunlock. High lvl barbs dominate. Archers do great. LA mages do great at high lvl's. Veno's with phoenix do amazing. So who's cleric doing better then? I'd say mage and thats it. Every other class can beat you, veno with phoenix and high lvl barbs/archers rather easily.

So it stands, cleric average pvp class simply because its not "better" then all the other classes. It's better then one class, but then again all classes are then mage practically. Saying cleric is better then average would mean cleric is better then 2/3's of the classes in this game in pvp, and this simply is not true.

Equal lvl BM's can stunlock me forever. Barbs with charms just won't die. Archers can kill me quickly with a lucky crit. Veno's with phoenix isn't even a fight. Mages i beat pretty easily. Archers it's all luck on who gets who, and lvl based.

So it stands, clerics, compared to the other classes, is average at pvp. Above average is veno with phoenix and high lvl barb. Then it's average, BM, archer, cleric, and sub par is Mage.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'll dissagree on the PvP part, Venos are not so great in PvP, well I have no idea how a Phoenix is or it's dmg output but Clerics can 3 or 4 hit a Veno, I'm LA wich means low dmg(compared to robe builds) and still I 3 hit a friend of mine that is 5 lvls highter than me, without even spark, i just stacked 2 ironhearts and plume shell in the beginning and have her golem and her hitting me but not fast enough to beat me - I repeat, I don't know how a Phoenix is but even then if Venos depend only on an overpowered pet it doesn't make them such a great PvP class. Not to mention that not everyone can actually efford a Phoenix or a Hercules.

Well if you ever want to see what it's like to fight veno's with phoenix's, go to the dragon temple event on tuesday nights and see how well you do. b:victory

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

We can heal - constantly - mana efficiently that makes us better than average
we have plume shell for those sticky situations
we have magical AND physical attacks for magical/physical defence inc mobs. (PvE)

The sole fact we have magic + physical attacks is an instant advantage

I 2 hit level 71bms when I spark.
Our chromatic seal when maxed out lasts longer than any stunlock
Archers - they die easily all you need to do is time your own spark eruption to resist their stun as well as go close to gimp their dmg.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We can heal - constantly - mana efficiently that makes us better than average
we have plume shell for those sticky situations
we have magical AND physical attacks for magical/physical defence inc mobs. (PvE)

The sole fact we have magic + physical attacks is an instant advantage

I 2 hit level 71bms when I spark.
Our chromatic seal when maxed out lasts longer than any stunlock
Archers - they die easily all you need to do is time your own spark eruption to resist their stun as well as go close to gimp their dmg.

Those same BM's can stunlock you indefinetely or 1 shot you with there ultimate. Time your spark to resist there stun? Thats your tactic? Are you serious? It's like a half second window, with the lag...this is your tactic? What does that work 1 out of 100 times?

Please stop spreading these ricidulouc rumors that clerics will dominate pvp. They wont and they dont. You can do just as well as most other classes. Not much better or worst. Except a phoenix veno, they will destroy you.

Fyi, basing what you can do with sparks in pvp is not how you judge the worth of a class.

Forp - Heavens Tear

ignore mystic, he's an idiot. he says he soloed dismal, krixxis, and suz at the levels to do so, and he soloed mantavip at ~65. all with level 1 purify.

acidstorm

Faustinna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Better then average would mean then who is average at solo pvp class? BM's do great in pvp with stunlock. High lvl barbs dominate. Archers do great. LA mages do great at high lvl's. Veno's with phoenix do amazing. So who's cleric doing better then? I'd say mage and thats it. Every other class can beat you, veno with phoenix and high lvl barbs/archers rather easily.

So it stands, cleric average pvp class simply because its not "better" then all the other classes. It's better then one class, but then again all classes are then mage practically. Saying cleric is better then average would mean cleric is better then 2/3's of the classes in this game in pvp, and this simply is not true.

Equal lvl BM's can stunlock me forever. Barbs with charms just won't die. Archers can kill me quickly with a lucky crit. Veno's with phoenix isn't even a fight. Mages i beat pretty easily. Archers it's all luck on who gets who, and lvl based.

So it stands, clerics, compared to the other classes, is average at pvp. Above average is veno with phoenix and high lvl barb. Then it's average, BM, archer, cleric, and sub par is Mage.

Can I ask WTF is this ? Do you even know what you're talking about ?

Mostly same equipment - level 90's:
- WB has no chance killing an EP
- WR dies to EP.. stunlocking ? Lol.. when you hit him with 4k dmg with just normal damage Tempest..
-Are you actually afraid of WFs ? I have no idea why everyone puts them so high above ANYTHING when they die before their pet has a chance to hit you -.-
-You beat MG easily.. they just suck
-The real and only threat to you is supposed to be an EA and nothing, I repeat nothing else.. even they go down lets say in 3 hits without a hierogram.. but let me ask you something

Ever heard of PLUME SHELL ? It's a crucial pvp skill. PERIOD.

And yeah.. the above only works in case you are a player with HP/MP charms vs player with HP/MP charms


You will never prove me wrong on what I stated. Plume shell will always be a crucial spell for pvp.. DEBUFFS are what makes you strong.. *sigh*

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

acidstorm wrote: »

Can I ask WTF is this ? Do you even know what you're talking about ?

Mostly same equipment - level 90's:
- WB has no chance killing an EP
- WR dies to EP.. stunlocking ? Lol.. when you hit him with 4k dmg with just normal damage Tempest..
-Are you actually afraid of WFs ? I have no idea why everyone puts them so high above ANYTHING when they die before their pet has a chance to hit you -.-
-You beat MG easily.. they just suck
-The real and only threat to you is supposed to be an EA and nothing, I repeat nothing else.. even they go down lets say in 3 hits without a hierogram.. but let me ask you something

Ever heard of PLUME SHELL ? It's a crucial pvp skill. PERIOD.

And yeah.. the above only works in case you are a player with HP/MP charms vs player with HP/MP charms


You will never prove me wrong on what I stated. Plume shell will always be a crucial spell for pvp.. DEBUFFS are what makes you strong.. *sigh*

I swear it's like talking to a wall. You do realise that unless a cleric goes FAC they won't have the necesarry debuffs until well in the 70's? That's 70lvls you have to play where you have to be realistic about what you can and can't do. I know a lot of "elite" players will say they get to 70 in 1 weeks time, but most of us don't. I'm still not 70. It's a a good 1-2months of time you'll be playing where you won't have access to debuffs.

Stop comparing all pvp to what you can do at 90+. Most players will never be 90+ so it's not the end all and be all of "normal" pvp. Thank you.