I need serious help.

Nevarya - Sanctuary

This is going to be my first veno and I don't know which is better, light or heavy armor. Please don't say; "It depends on what you're going to do...ect" Because for me, it's going to depend on the armor.

Peritia - Lost City

Nevarya - Sanctuary wrote: »

"It depends on what you're going to do...ect"

As much as you don't want to hear it, you just answered yourself.

EDIT: I'm personally an arcane armour, caster-type Veno. I figure with the pet as my tank, I might as well put all my effort into best magic skills possible. Things would obviously be different if I were a fox-form Veno.

Dioica - Sanctuary

Nevarya - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is going to be my first veno and I don't know which is better, light or heavy armor. Please don't say; "It depends on what you're going to do...ect" Because for me, it's going to depend on the armor.

I would suggest you go with light armor.

Personally, I am planning on using arcane armor with some vitality, but if I were forced to choose between light and heavy armor, I would choose light armor.

andracil

Heavy armor will inevitably be a fox form Veno, i.e. you won't use magic, but the fox form skills. Heavy armor casters don't work.
Light armor can go both ways, though it's not really recommended. Arcane for casters and heavy for foxes, in between makes you weaker really.

fuzzles

Heavy armour.

It's a lot harder to finnangle, but in the long run it pays off better than just about anything else in the game.

Heavy armour veno is the single best PvP build there is. Anyone who disagrees has never played as or against a good heavy armour veno.

fuzzles

andracil wrote: »

Heavy armor will inevitably be a fox form Veno, i.e. you won't use magic, but the fox form skills. Heavy armor casters don't work.

Bzzzzt!

And wrongo was his nameo.

You won't be able to use the best magic weapon and heavy armour without +stat gear, but it definitely works.

Don't like seeing GMs spreading misinformation. People are more likely to believe GMs, even if they don't know what they're talking about. b:surrender

andracil

Heavy armor as a caster gimps your damage. It really, really does. I think it decreases your damage output by about 40%, not sure. If you want higher def, but insist on being a caster, light armor should do, the str req on heavy is WAY too high.

Vinat - Sanctuary

i'm sorry but i don't think a veno is meant to use anything other than arcane.

reason being your heal pet skill depends largely on your magic attack. higher magic = better heal. lower magic = crappy heal = pets die = you have no tank.

tho i guess *maybe* a heavy armor veno could be its own tank.. but then you are defeating the entire puropse of playing a veno. if you are going to be your own tank then play a barb.

andracil

Fox form venos do exist though Vinat, they're a bit underused, but they're really quite good Their only real issue is they have to use a magic weapon, which usually leaves them with a lowlvl weapon all the time because they don't want to lvl mag.

Maiya - Lost City

I think the common heavy armor builds make it so that you have enough to either equip your current heavy armor, or the most recent magic weapon. Then you adjust the lacking one with lower versions or you find equipment that boosts your stats incredibly.

fuzzles

andracil wrote: »

Heavy armor as a caster gimps your damage. It really, really does. I think it decreases your damage output by about 40%, not sure. If you want higher def, but insist on being a caster, light armor should do, the str req on heavy is WAY too high.

Nope. You're flat out wrong, I'm afraid.

Light armour veno puts 3 magic every level. That's the very minimum to use up to date magic weapons.

A heavy armour veno with good +stat gear is capable of using both the best magic weapon and the best heavy armour of its level. They have the exact same damage output. The only difference is that a light armour veno will have a slightly better crit chance. (5% better at level 96).

When heavy armour venos start finalising their gear in 90+, they are clearly better than light armour. If they mix robes with heavy armour they can have both better pdef and mdef than light armour users. And heavy armour when refined gives more HP than light armour.

Sorry Andracil. You're just plain wrong.

Vinat - Sanctuary

fuzzles wrote: »

Nope. You're flat out wrong, I'm afraid.

Light armour veno puts 3 magic every level. That's the very minimum to use up to date magic weapons.

A heavy armour veno with good +stat gear is capable of using both the best magic weapon and the best heavy armour of its level. They have the exact same damage output. The only difference is that a light armour veno will have a slightly better crit chance. (5% better at level 96).

When heavy armour venos start finalising their gear in 90+, they are clearly better than light armour. If they mix robes with heavy armour they can have both better pdef and mdef than light armour users. And heavy armour when refined gives more HP than light armour.

Sorry Andracil. You're just plain wrong.

i'm sorry but YOU are just plain wrong... "most up to date magic weapon" does not compensate for the loss of ATTRIBUTE POINTS that *should* go into mag that for a heavy armor veno *would* go into strength. neither do +stat equips.

hypothetical.. 100 points. you need 50 str to use some heavy armor, 50 for the mag wep. so you split it and do it 50/50. that is NOT the same damage as someone who put 10, 20, 30, even 40 points in str and 60 or more in mag.

attribute points matter. a lot. a magic weapon only adds x amount of m-attk to what your characters BASE m-attk is. if your base m attk is 2, then you will do less damage than someone whos base m-attk is 10, even if you use the same exact weapon.

fuzzles

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i'm sorry but YOU are just plain wrong... "most up to date magic weapon" does not compensate for the loss of ATTRIBUTE POINTS that *should* go into mag that for a heavy armor veno *would* go into strength. neither do +stat equips.

You're obviously fairly dim, so I'm gonna type slowly.

Andracil recommended a light armour veno. Light armor venos do not put more than 3 points per level into magic.

I recommended a heavy armour veno, which can also puts 3 points per level into magic.

Now, let's get into the tricky maths of this...

There are two venos. One of them puts 3 points every level into magic. The other one also puts 3 points every level into magic. What will be the difference in magic between them?
a) 30
b) 60
c) 90
d) Nothing

If you answered D - Nothing, then congratulations. You are not Vinat. And that's always a good thing.

*edit* Just to elaborate, now that I have the sarcasm out of the way.. venos can use +stat gear to fill in the gaps and eventually use the best of both heavy armour and magic weapon. How many times does it need to be said? Furthermore, until a veno is able to use the best of heavy armour and magic weapon, it can use a combination of heavy armour below its level and up to date robes, and still end up with a better physical and magic defense than a light armour veno. *edit*

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Your arguments are very one sided fuzzles, not saying everything you said is wrong but there is a bit of biased in your posts.

ie) suggesting the heavy armor veno would compensate by using +stat equips, who's to say the light armor veno couldnt also use high +stat equips to further widen the damage gap as well.(which was an argument about heavy gimping damage)

ie2) comparing light armor to heavy+robe, then stating heavy refines to add more hp, but neglecting that the robe portion adds less.

I'm sure theres more, I just scanned it. Also to use the best heavy armor and best magic weapon at level 90, you'd need to compensate about 80-90 stat points, I dont see anyone realistically getting enough stat boosting gear to wear both. I hear you shouting its better, but none of us have seen any concrete proof.

Vinat - Sanctuary

fuzzles wrote: »

You're obviously fairly dim, so I'm gonna type slowly.

Andracil recommended a light armour veno. Light armor venos do not put more than 3 points per level into magic.

I recommended a heavy armour veno, which can also puts 3 points per level into magic.

Now, let's get into the tricky maths of this...

There are two venos. One of them puts 3 points every level into magic. The other one also puts 3 points every level into magic. What will be the difference in magic between them?
a) 30
b) 60
c) 90
d) Nothing

If you answered D - Nothing, then congratulations. You are not Vinat. And that's always a good thing.

*edit* Just to elaborate, now that I have the sarcasm out of the way.. venos can use +stat gear to fill in the gaps and eventually use the best of both heavy armour and magic weapon. How many times does it need to be said? Furthermore, until a veno is able to use the best of heavy armour and magic weapon, it can use a combination of heavy armour below its level and up to date robes, and still end up with a better physical and magic defense than a light armour veno. *edit*

im not even bothering to read all of it. from skimming it ive gathered that you cannot make up your mind between light and heavy, nor can you see the difference, which means youre just ignorant. my point is that heavy will leave you with not enough attribute points in magic. end of story. no debating it. light is a slightly different story. you asked for advice, people gave it, and youre trying to make an argument out of what experienced venos are telling you. work on your people skills before asking for help again. or better yet, since you cannot hear things you dont like without tossing insults, go read the veno guide and do whatever the hell you want.

you are obviously a blooming idiot, so by all means, go make your heavy armor veno and see what you get. i had a friend who made the HUGE mistake of going this route and had the exact problem i mentioned, which was a weak heal due to not enough magic because to keep yourself up to date with str required for heavy hurts the magic. fox form doesnt become worthwile until lvl 60+, so have fun lvln from 20-60 with a perpetually dead pet. or you could compensate the magic and have virtually no hp. your choice really.

finally, if a veno were meant by the developers to be a heavy armor class then the skills would reflect such. and guess what, they dont.

i wont be bothering to read or respond to this thread any further because to be blunt, youre not deserving of anyones help or advice.

fuzzles

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I dont see anyone realistically getting enough stat boosting gear to wear both. I hear you shouting its better, but none of us have seen any concrete proof.

Put seatbelts on your ears.. because I'm about to take them for the ride of their life..

Here's the gear and stats on a heavy armour WF at level 9x, who's using the level 89 gold magic sword, and full TT90 heavy armour. And their str and magic is quite well over the requirements for that gear.


That's their TT90 armour. Notice that they're wearing only heavy armour at the moment. Bear this in mind when you gander at their mdef later.


This is the gear set they used to get the required stats. It's a pretty pricey selection, full gold. Bear in mind that this is just an example of the way it's possible to get enough stats. There are other ways to do so. Different gear and all.


And here's their stats. Absolutely ridiculous pdef and sexy HP. They were wearing full heavy armour when they took that screenie, so the mdef is a bit low. But they are able to mix and match. They don't actually need any of the stat bonuses that come with their armour, and as such can balance their pdef and mdef any way they wish.

fuzzles

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

im not even bothering to read all of it. from skimming it ive gathered that you cannot make up your mind between light and heavy, nor can you see the difference, which means youre just ignorant. my point is that heavy will leave you with not enough attribute points in magic. end of story. no debating it. light is a slightly different story. you asked for advice, people gave it, and youre trying to make an argument out of what experienced venos are telling you.

*edit - removed* I said some things that may have been misconstrued as being extremely offensive, and akin to a verbal elbow in the face. I won't pretend I didn't enjoy it, but if there actually is a line buried somewhere among all the idiocy that Vinat keeps vomiting onto the table, I'd hate to cross it. You obviously have me confused with someone else, Vinat. Which is unsurprising, because you are an easily-confused individual. I would suggest that you read the names of posters, you incompetent tool. *edit*

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

I see very nice screens, though '9x' and the actualy level being blacked out is rather disapointing, I have no doubt you could have the stats by 99 and I dont really feel liek tallying up the points to figure thier actual level. Also takes a lot of specialty gear, which is going to be rather expensive and hard to comeby.

I have no doubt that heavy build is better end game, but earlier its going to be harder to manage. Considering most people dont even make it to end game I wouldnt recomend something so complex that only really shines at endgame. Simplicty adds efficency in the early game stage. In all honesty you might as well start light/arcane then just restat.


@Vinat
fuzzles didn't start this topic, or ask for advice. He's just a heavy armor advocate.

fuzzles

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In all honesty you might as well start light/arcane then just restat.

True, true. That's what the owner of that rather delightful veno that is pictured in those screenies did. They went pure int all the way. Then they amassed that equally delightful collection of uber knick-knacks, and only then did they proceed to restat.

And I'm not entirely certain, but I think she was level 94 at the time. A quick gander at her stats + gear and a bit of maths could tell you her exact level, for anyone who cares enough to follow it up.

senovit

Wraithrex cloak lololol.

I'm only laughing at it because I envy his money/build :[

And Obsessed: You can actually get the stats required by 90. I was bored enough to figure it out one day, and with optimal items - the ones the fox up above was wearing (excluding rings and helmet) you could wear 3 pieces of tt90 armor with the tt80 green wrist. I suppose with good enough rings and/or helmet you could replace that tt80 wrist with the tt90 one, so a heavy caster build would most definitely be possible by 90.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

fuzzles wrote: »

True, true. That's what the owner of that rather delightful veno that is pictured in those screenies did. They went pure int all the way. Then they amassed that equally delightful collection of uber knick-knacks, and only then did they proceed to restat.

I am wondering then what use it is advising someone to go with a heavy build, if even someone who chose to invest quite a bit of money/coin in doing it initially went with an mage build and re-statted at the end. I get the impression the OP was asking for a working build for leveling, not a target for the end-game.

I am toying with switching from light to heavy/arcane. But the equipment juggling and potential cost has got my head spinning. I have lower level cleric and barb alts who could use the hand-me-down armor. That's really the only reason I'm considering it. Without them, it just seems like way too much trouble and cost to maintain two sets of armor as you're leveling.

frenzi

LA till 90.
Restat, or not.
Venos are **** on any build, really... and each build has it's own uses.

Hitakitsune - Heavens Tear

The first thing that needs to be done is choose how you're going to play.

PvE Caster: Use arcane armor. There's really no point in using heavy or light. Your pet will be tanking 99.9% of the damage so having the highest MAG possible will help you deal damage to mobs quickly and heal your pets for most of their health in one shot. The idea is all MAG with only enough STR to use gear of your level.

PvP Caster: Use light armor. Other players are usually smart enough to ignore your pet when you fight them and all other classes (with the possible exception of clerics) will be able to 1 or 2 hit you using arcane. With light armor, there is a slight reduction in your damage due to having to remove points from MAG to put into DEX, but in exchange you receive better survivability. Your pet heals also won't be as spectacular, but they will still be good enough to get you through day to day grinding.

Pure Fox Form: Whether you go PvE or PvP here doesn't matter, use heavy armor. This type requires much more STR than MAG, which means your magic attacks will suffer. In fox form, you'll be attacking with melee anyway, so lower casting power won't be noticed as much. Your pet heals will be so low that you probably won't be able to keep up with damage control, however. Partying with a caster Veno will remedy this as they will be able to heal your pets for you.

Xchandra - Heavens Tear

andracil wrote: »

Heavy armor as a caster gimps your damage. It really, really does. I think it decreases your damage output by about 40%, not sure. If you want higher def, but insist on being a caster, light armor should do, the str req on heavy is WAY too high.

There is a very big misconception on heavy armor venos. Do heavy armor veno casters exsist? Are they gimped like the mod considers them gimped?

http://forum.perfectworld.com.my/viewtopic.php?t=10212
here is one heavy caster build. focusing mostly on int and enough str and agi to use lower tier heavy armor.

then here is another
http://forum.perfectworld.com.my/viewtopic.php?t=8634
this one can use rank 12 robes and weps and about rank 9 armor. this is only showing the armor, rings ect can be focused more on str and agi to use even better heavy armor. also seeking heavy armor with 30% less stat reduction.

these are from the pw my-en forums. on these forums a pure int build is considered noobish due to the fact all their servers are pvp. (9 int 1 str every 2 lvls)

arcane builds do consist of getting enough con (vit) to survive. infact on lost city arcane casters do invest on con(vit) they will have a bit more int than light and heavy builds that work on getting their best wep , but they shine in the hp department where the other builds lack.

both light and heavy builds start to shine only when armor is refined and when they achive lvl 60 and on for light (pvp) and lvl 80+ for heavy (pvp)

light and heavy builds offer more flexibility with your venos skills and more so when you start hitting high lvls.

the most flexible build that allows you to excel in fox and even in casting is the 2nd build i posted. that build also allows you to use the best arcane armor. having both sets allows you to mix and match or use a set depending on what your facing. by adding your armor to your hotkeys you can change gear on the fly by just clicking on them. this does take 8 hotkey slots however so you will have a hard time putting every skill on your keys.

In the end your a basicly focusing your character to do tw, pvp and pk. prob some pve places but that is basicly what you will be focusing on as pve will get to you.

only Pure builds like focusing int and just getting str to meet the requirements to use arcane armor are ONLY useful in pve servers. The lack of suvivability make them less useful in tw.

Pets can be used by all venos. and if x pet makes one build strong, it will make all the others just as strong (refering to phoenix in tw and pvp/pk)

Heavy builds by no means are gimped in their casting dmg. much less are forced to go fox. those to builds prove otherwise. they do not do as much dmg as a arcane build. but they do offer more survivability, more use of all the veno skills than a arcane build can offer.

Xchandra - Heavens Tear

Hitakitsune - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The first thing that needs to be done is choose how you're going to play.

PvE Caster: Use arcane armor. There's really no point in using heavy or light. Your pet will be tanking 99.9% of the damage so having the highest MAG possible will help you deal damage to mobs quickly and heal your pets for most of their health in one shot. The idea is all MAG with only enough STR to use gear of your level.

PvP Caster: Use light armor. Other players are usually smart enough to ignore your pet when you fight them and all other classes (with the possible exception of clerics) will be able to 1 or 2 hit you using arcane. With light armor, there is a slight reduction in your damage due to having to remove points from MAG to put into DEX, but in exchange you receive better survivability. Your pet heals also won't be as spectacular, but they will still be good enough to get you through day to day grinding.

Pure Fox Form: Whether you go PvE or PvP here doesn't matter, use heavy armor. This type requires much more STR than MAG, which means your magic attacks will suffer. In fox form, you'll be attacking with melee anyway, so lower casting power won't be noticed as much. Your pet heals will be so low that you probably won't be able to keep up with damage control, however. Partying with a caster Veno will remedy this as they will be able to heal your pets for you.

depends on the build for pure fox. our dmg is more dependant on our wep. if we focus more on str our dmg will be much lower than a fox who decides to be 1 or 2 lvls lower in armor and get wep for their lvl. smart fox venos will look for armor with stat requirement reductions.

on the my-en forums it has been proven that a fox veno only investing enough int to use a lvl 66 wep is extremely inferior to venos who decide to use rank 8 to 10 armor and get the best wep they can. because they get the best wep for their lvl their pet healing is good (im working on getting 180 int for lvl 60 and i use rank 6 armor) I can heal my pet for about a bit more than half of its health. if i go caster i can still produce good dmg from my spells (however due to spirit deprivement my spells are low ranked)

Just remember there is more than 1 heavy armor veno build

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

senovit wrote: »

Wraithrex cloak lololol.

I'm only laughing at it because I envy his money/build :[

And Obsessed: You can actually get the stats required by 90. I was bored enough to figure it out one day, and with optimal items - the ones the fox up above was wearing (excluding rings and helmet) you could wear 3 pieces of tt90 armor with the tt80 green wrist. I suppose with good enough rings and/or helmet you could replace that tt80 wrist with the tt90 one, so a heavy caster build would most definitely be possible by 90.

b:thanks thats nice. I was really planning on switching when I hit 90+ myself, but I didnt care to look into it until I got there, only a few more levels.. haha.

Chaotiic - Lost City

That Veno in the ss fuzzles posted was lvl 91 or 90 as the exp to level at 92 is 14.9 mil and that person exp to level is only 13.3 mil.

Heavy build caster are by far better than light as they have much higher physical defense and slightly higher magical defense. The person in the ss for instance has higher mdef than i do (if thats an unbuffed ss which i think it is) and triple my pdef. Also the stats are obtainable at 90.

Veno who go heavy wait until 90 in general as this is a pvp late-game build and is also a fairly expensive one however it is by far the best for venos. You may talk about magic damage being lower but the only viable and used builds for veno are full vit robe, light and heavy. ALL of these builds will have base magic for their weapon so their damage will be EXACTLY the same with light getting 5% more crit rate. So then the big difference is defense and hp and it is here that heavy wins hands down as with refines it has the best defenses and second best hp as robe vit has slightly more hp at lower refines and less hp past +6 i think. Venos dont have to hit very hard as they have a pet to make up for it.
Full mag veno is purely for leveling and not a serious build past 90.

For leveling without pvp go full mag.

Leveling with pvp light armor.

90+ Heavy

Also @Vinat and Obsessed a light veno with extra attribute gear never puts it into magic they put it into vit. PVP as a veno is about staying alive debuffing, amping, spells and pet **** u are not a glass cannon class and should not build urself to be as ur phoenix already out-damages u and other classes by far.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

@Chaotic well majority of people are pve so it is something to consider, and was an argument brought up in one of the first few posts, never said I neccisarily agreed with it.

I'm planning to switch to heavy when I get the correct gear at 90ish too. b:victory

fuzzles

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I get the impression the OP was asking for a working build for leveling, not a target for the end-game.

The OP asked which is better, light or heavy armour.

Nevarya - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is going to be my first veno and I don't know which is better, light or heavy armor.

Heavy is better.

Adultery - Heavens Tear

90+ Heavy Armour CASTER Venos make me drool like there's no tomorrow.

Yes, caster. andracil is 50% right - before 90 they suck ****. After 90 they kick ****.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Been trying to figure out gears that are more readily obtainable(basically just not that cape ).. So far I've come short 21~30 points, so am unable to figure out a viable way to become heavy at level 90(without using that cape). I calculated out that by lvl 90 you should have 462 usable statpoints(you have 465 but vit can only drop to 3) and you need 543(267mag 227str 49dex)

543-462 = 81, so we need to come up with +81 stat points

Weapon:+10~11(dex) Level 89 Mold Magic sword
Helm: +7 (2mag 5dex) Level 82 blue helm(got lucky from mob drops, hopefully can find a 10+)
Ringx2: +20~26(mag/str/dex) Level 51 Mold Demon Panther ringx2
necklace: +9 (dex/str) Mines level 82 blue(hopefully can find a 10+)
belt: +11 (dex/mag) Magic one I found

Cape: ******** still looking for a decent replacement over the TT90 cape.. (hopefully 10+)
Amor: TT90 HA - No bonus, trying to wear...(potentially use TT80 heavy wrists, +9 usuable stats)

= +57~64

= 24~17 points short

Has anyone yet found a feasible way without needing the rediculous TT90 cape, otherwise it wont be till 95~ that I can switch, or have to go on a chip farming spree to get the gold mats for the cape. u_u (correct me if you see anything wrong)

Tell me if you know any better stat gear then posted.