Holy/Hell discussion.

Torinchibi - Lost City

Chaotic, I did 4.5k (or maybe 4.9k, can't recall) nonspark crit with lvl 80 +3 on Platypuss while buffed, with your +6, I wouldn't be surprised if you do 8k. I also don't know if it gives you the 400% off of blue stats on a weapon (maximum weapon atk and maximum atk).
If you really consider it, I've done 4.9k normal atk with heaven fury, and so has Envy on me, so that's like 7k if it was a robie. Seeing myself crit 4.5k then normal atk for 4.4k once duel is won in heaven spark made me really think about it. I tried a lot of times and my normal dmg never got above 2.5k and crit never got above 5k in like 15 tries.

Maybe I am wrong, but that's my experience with the skill, I would be ecstatic if I know I can crit for 8k in spark with that move when you only get the boost from the base physical atk.

Either way, sparking and using that move just doubles base dmg and adds 400%/500% of weapon dmg, which is pretty much doing like 18k (for me) + 5x 1.4k (1460 with blue stat, 1300 without) = 25k, making a spark do 27% more dmg with that move. That's something I would have noticed when I tried it, but I not only did the same crit with and without spark, I also did less dmg without crit with spark once. Since 30% dmg is about difference between min and max dmg, that means it's impossible to spark crit for less than max dmg crit (unless I somehow do more than 4.5k~4.9k normal crit with that skill. Which i most likely do not).

Therefore, I just made a pretty valid argument that shows take aim % doesn't stack during spark and would show why I think so even if I was wrong.

Chaotiic - Lost City

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

Chaotic, I did 4.5k (or maybe 4.9k, can't recall) nonspark crit with lvl 80 +3 on Platypuss while buffed, with your +6, I wouldn't be surprised if you do 8k. I also don't know if it gives you the 400% off of blue stats on a weapon (maximum weapon atk and maximum atk).
If you really consider it, I've done 4.9k normal atk with heaven fury, and so has Envy on me, so that's like 7k if it was a robie. Seeing myself crit 4.5k then normal atk for 4.4k once duel is won in heaven spark made me really think about it. I tried a lot of times and my normal dmg never got above 2.5k and crit never got above 5k in like 15 tries.

Maybe I am wrong, but that's my experience with the skill, I would be ecstatic if I know I can crit for 8k in spark with that move when you only get the boost from the base physical atk.

Either way, sparking and using that move just doubles base dmg and adds 400%/500% of weapon dmg, which is pretty much doing like 18k (for me) + 5x 1.4k (1460 with blue stat, 1300 without) = 25k, making a spark do 27% more dmg with that move. That's something I would have noticed when I tried it, but I not only did the same crit with and without spark, I also did less dmg without crit with spark once. Since 30% dmg is about difference between min and max dmg, that means it's impossible to spark crit for less than max dmg crit (unless I somehow do more than 4.5k~4.9k normal crit with that skill. Which i most likely do not).

Therefore, I just made a pretty valid argument that shows take aim % doesn't stack during spark and would show why I think so even if I was wrong.

You made me read b:sad

I think wat ur trying to say here (but u may correct me if im wrong) is that fury seems to only effect base physical damage? And because take aim damage comes mostly from weapon% there wouldnt be much of an increase? And this increase u calculated at 27%. Tbh in my experience hell fury roughly doubles the damage of normal shots and skills maybe slightly less than double. Take aim is a pretty random skill depending on whether u hit ur max or min. I think its likely u hit max damage and crit without fury then did min with no crit with fury on and hit roughly the same damage.
You're right i could hit 8k on platy with my +8 weapon but Platy isn't 9x. I was talking about my damage on 9x and as u fight more of them robe or light armour u will see there is a big difference. I wish i could hit an 8k crit on MeL or Wind without fury but sadly no. With fury however i have hit that on 9x which would indicate take aim is effected by fury.
Your original argument was deadly shot would hit more with fury even if it hits less without fury. If i have understood ur post then you believe only base physical is effected. Since both have the same base physical they would receive the same additional damage when u fury and thus deadly shot would still hit lower than take aim.
However Envy is right u crit on take aim with a decent weapon and it pretty much one shots hell fury with it is overkill or for when u want to see big numbers. Lol i even oneshot an 8x wr with a crit on this skill (he had magical sutra on b:chuckle).
Also update on damage with hell fury take aim. Hit xKairi lv 90 ep in cq 9982 (she doesnt have 90 gear yet so call her an 8x)

Torinchibi - Lost City

I said deadly would do more damage, because I claim that Take aim's extra dmg (400%/500% from weapon damage) doesn't stack with the increase from fury. So without fury you do base dmg +400%/500% of weapon dmg and with fury, you do fury base damage, which is roughly 2x base dmg.
My damage table with that skill looks like this:
No fury________________________Fury____________Normal atk fury___Normal atk
4.5k crit_______________________4.5k crit_________4.5k crit_________1.9k crit
4.9k crit_______________________4.1k crit_________4.4k crit_________1.7k crit
2.3k __________________________2.2k____________1.9k_____________900
2.5k___________________________2.4k____________2.2k_____________800

What I am trying to point out, is that I never got a crit higher than 5k and normal damage higher than 2.5k with take aim with or without fury, while at the same time doing the same damage in fury with normal atks. Keep in mind those are all buffed damages.

10k normal atking a robie with your weapon is even more possible now that you told me it's +8 not even +6. Especially if xKairy doesn't use full physical ornaments and is unbuffed.
When I have time, I'll get some1 to sit there and take my shots for 2 hours while I compile fury/non fury tables with more data that I can average out and know for sure.

Chaotiic - Lost City

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

I said deadly would do more damage, because I claim that Take aim's extra dmg (400%/500% from weapon damage) doesn't stack with the increase from fury. So without fury you do base dmg +400%/500% of weapon dmg and with fury, you do fury base damage, which is roughly 2x base dmg.
My damage table with that skill looks like this:
No fury________________________Fury____________Normal atk fury___Normal atk
4.5k crit_______________________4.5k crit_________4.5k crit_________1.9k crit
4.9k crit_______________________4.1k crit_________4.4k crit_________1.7k crit
2.3k __________________________2.2k____________1.9k_____________900
2.5k___________________________2.4k____________2.2k_____________800

What I am trying to point out, is that I never got a crit higher than 5k and normal damage higher than 2.5k with take aim with or without fury, while at the same time doing the same damage in fury with normal atks. Keep in mind those are all buffed damages.

10k normal atking a robie with your weapon is even more possible now that you told me it's +8 not even +6. Especially if xKairy doesn't use full physical ornaments and is unbuffed.
When I have time, I'll get some1 to sit there and take my shots for 2 hours while I compile fury/non fury tables with more data that I can average out and know for sure.

Trust me the numbers i hit without fury isnt close to the ones with. my highest crit without fury on a 9x was around 5.5k with fury 8k+ which is a clear difference. However try it out test it if u will.
Also do u have hell/heaven take aim? If not get it, try it and u will never use deadly shot again other than as a joke. It jus plain doesnt hit as hard isn't spammable like take aim and is too damn slow. Take aim even helps u ks if someone else hits the person and there hp is low u can release it early to get the kill. (This pisses diego off soooooo much b:chuckle)

Link - Lost City

Chaotiic - Lost City wrote: »

Trust me the numbers i hit without fury isnt close to the ones with. my highest crit without fury on a 9x was around 5.5k with fury 8k+ which is a clear difference. However try it out test it if u will.
Also do u have hell/heaven take aim? If not get it, try it and u will never use deadly shot again other than as a joke. It jus plain doesnt hit as hard isn't spammable like take aim and is too damn slow. Take aim even helps u ks if someone else hits the person and there hp is low u can release it early to get the kill. (This pisses diego off soooooo much b:chuckle)

In this case, I agree with Chaotiic. I let TigerLily test her damage on me once, Heaven Take aim without spark and crit(=5200 on me) then she used heaven spark+heaven take aim(=5200 but non crit on me b:shocked)

Torinchibi - Lost City

I must be doing it wrong!...lolz. If it's getting confirmed by 2 people, I guess I just had a freak series of shots.

I do have take aim and I use it all the time now. I love using it before the cleric gets off their plume shell after the stun. Too bad I can't bypass heiro when I stop it early with my current weapon.

BTW people have been saying hell stun shot gives you 10% of your current crit not additional 10% crit.

sillyfoo

At 89 what skills can u get for sage and demon? at 99?

Envy - Lost City

sillyfoo wrote: »

At 89 what skills can u get for sage and demon? at 99?

The three obtainable ones are frost arrow, blazing arrow, and take aim.

There's a few more 89 skills you can get, but they drop in 99fb and the drop rate for the specific book you want is about .02%.

All 87 books (I think thats the number) drop from the same boss.

I've farmed 99 about 6 times, havnt seen a book drop yet.

Pyreon - Heavens Tear

Well, for the longest time I thought both sides of this argument were compelling and for the most part, seemingly not biased. Nice job! b:pleased

However, I ran into a problem. I do agree, or did rather, a few days ago that both were fairly even, however, I originally intended to go sage for the support skills, namely Sharptooth and the duration increase of Wings of protection. Even though the difference in 16/18/20% may not be THAT great, but thought it would be awesome for when the guild is doing TT runs.

BUT NOW! When im talking to one of my veno friends (don't kill me b:surrender), and I am trying to help him decide which would be better for his playing style I run across this:

Veno:

Soul Degeneration

Curse the target to stop HP and MP regeneration for 12 seconds.
At any time an enemy may only be affected by one curse.

Sage version reduces maximum HP by 20%.
Demon version cuts target's evasion in half for 20 seconds.


Is is just me....Or does that make my sharptooth utterly worthless, and his safer because he can attack first, err at the same time as pet?

A 20m hp boss would go down to 16m after he uses that, and only down to 12.8m, a loss of 800k in "damage", and that is if they even stack...but doesn't that make my sharptooth like 12% or so? Sorry my math is bad, but...

If that skill is one of the main reasons I would be picking sage, I think i may be leaning towards demon now.

Does anyone know if that IS what that veno skill does? 20% of target or themselves....If they weren't overpowered enough...This kinda pisses me off, but oh well, I think grinding might be faster demon path anyway....

Let me know what you think, thanks guys! b:thanks

mbrunestud

uh it says demon winged blessing increases crit rate and accuracy against ranged targets on eca, does that mean a target that is some distance from you or does it mean another target that use ranged forms of combat (ie: archer)?

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Pyreon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Is is just me....Or does that make my sharptooth utterly worthless, and his safer because he can attack first, err at the same time as pet?

I think ecatomb says veno's sage soul degeneration lasts for 12 seconds (and cooling off takes 30 seconds). Sharptooth lasts 30 seconds and cools off in 15 seconds.

Also, I think sharpened tooth stacks with amplify damage but soul degeneration does not.

So I believe venos can not delay "50% damage" attacks with their skill and they can not reduce "fraction of damage taken" effects unless maybe three sages with sage soul degeneration team up together.

Also, veno's soul degeneration has 10m range. This might get rather uncomfortable, with some TT bosses?

Pyreon - Heavens Tear

Sorry, I am a bit confused at to what you are saying.

I would assume that if a veno uses sage soul degen, that 20% will be removed as with sage sharptooth, and a veno could just curse with soul dengen, remove 20% max hp from mob, and immediately use another curse with that hp still gone.

Like with sharptooth:

Boss has 20m hp
hit with sharptooth - 20%

boss hp 16m/16m, the effect goes away and boss then has 16m/20m.

And the veno in question is a light armour, fox form veno, and is always attacking TT bosses in fox form, so he would be able to use that curse.

And if you are saying they dont stack, which i was pretty much sure they wouldn't, then unless i attack first, my sharptooth is worthless, and i'm sure they would rather let him attack first, just to feel safe.

Sorry I'm slow, lol, what is the first part you were explaining? Thanks ahead of time.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Ok, ignoring our range issues:

You get some benefits against some twilight temple bosses by keeping their maximum health reduced.

For example if you were fighting Lord of Percussion and he currently had 450000 health, if his maximum health was 1000000 he would be using his AoE attack. But if his maximum health was 800000 he would be not be using his AoE yet.

Or, if he currently had 100000 health, he would be using his AoE attack either way, but would be hitting harder if his maximum health was 1000000 than if his maximum health was 800000.