Pure Dex vs. "Purer" Dex

Annor - Heavens Tear

Sorry if i misinterpretted, but quoting my post then saying that it was merely my archer who was the glass cannon (incapable of tanking) sends a rather definate message, which was not really what i was suggesting in my own post. Either way, thats as much as an argument as you'll get out of me .

DeliaLotus - Lost City

Annor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

to thanduril:
If you are arguing against me with that post, you must be a poor reader.

And Delia, I did not realize rank equipment was without a STR requirement, still not at all practical for PVP, but intriguing for PVE .
I don't believe armor would affect my 10% estimation, armor should be a flat percentage reduction, thus proportions and relations should be unchanged.
I.E.
11 is 10% higher than 10
apply 50% reduction:
5.5 is 10% higher than 5

Thinking about it more, you're probably right about the defense. But some posts I've read suggests actual damage is decreased by the flat physical defense number, so 1000 damage through 500 defense would do 500 actual damage while 1500 damage through the same defense would do 1000 actual damage. But since the char screen shows percents as well, this is probably not the case.

Yeah, the rank armor is useful. Just really hard to get. And thanks for all the advice. I'm not arguing this is the best build or anything like that, but I'm interested to see what it will turn out like and for now am enjoying playing with it.

Legerity - Sanctuary

DeliaLotus - Lost City wrote: »

Thinking about it more, you're probably right about the defense. But some posts I've read suggests actual damage is decreased by the flat physical defense number, so 1000 damage through 500 defense would do 500 actual damage while 1500 damage through the same defense would do 1000 actual damage. But since the char screen shows percents as well, this is probably not the case.

Yeah, the rank armor is useful. Just really hard to get. And thanks for all the advice. I'm not arguing this is the best build or anything like that, but I'm interested to see what it will turn out like and for now am enjoying playing with it.

It's the percentile that actually matters, not the number. 1000 damage through 500 phys def is not 500 damage, likewise 1500 damage through the same phys def is not 1000 damage. This applies to phys and all elemental attacks.

example, iirc a pure robe wizard has ~50% damage reduction to every element around the 2000 mark (around lvl 45). If a boss does 2k-4k magical, assuming 3k average per hit, the wizard will take 1500 damage average per hit after resistances. It is NOT 1k average per hit.

mogwai

imho, don't let anyone else tell you how it is unless they've tried it themselves.

& yes, i got the lv 40 rank eq. backwards in my last post, also the rank armor mentioned should have been for lv 60, not 50 as i mis-mentioned.

after searching, tons of 1-mans, & lots of wheelin/dealin, ive been able to acquire a lv 42 Sinister Bow (actually a sling) mold, which only forged to +6 dex out of a possible +7, a lower lv ring that has 1% crit, thus maintaining the 15% crit rate WHICH IS AMAZING!b:pleased---soon to be 16% next lv up.

as for drawing aggro on bosses, equipment can always be changed, stop shooting every few hits, equip some low lv fists or claws & use your AoE's---yes, some AoE's can be used with any weapon

surviving the AoE's can be overcome with various powders, a good cleric, +'ing your equipment (for a bit more HP), potions & elixirs (separate cool down times & more expensive), adding HP gems to gear, even spending coin for gold to give 4 sockets each, but DOABLE ...& is my intent.

mobs, 80% of the time don't even get near my purer-dex archer, & if they happen to spawn close enough to get mad..then that's when i start using skills & MAYBE a powder...I often take on 3-4 mobs on purpose, as the AoE's crit a lot too.

so far as pvp goes, idk YET..also my intent.

do a lil research on available equipment & see what best suits you lol..do you want/need a few more dex, do you want HP/MP recovery, or do you want more phys def?..it can all change depending on the type of activity you have planned next.

btw, the last wraith spawn i attended was at Anglers Village (lv 50 wraith), at my lv (44) i was far out damaging lv 60+ players..that had their TT60 arbors, pets, & also other archers.

getting stronger every day--all the 1-mans i do will enable ALL skills to be maxed, because i die on purpose, ie; get to about 85% of lv then die until 0.0% is reached again. You loose exp but no spirit upon death. So yes this archer o'mine will be stuck at lv 45 starting sometime tomorrow & until i'm satisfied or completely mind numbed from killing Mutant Jackolopardi-do-dos.

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UPDATE: i hear there's a "mystery" about archers missing a lot...found this...

Agility (dex)

* Range attack power rises
* Hit ratio rises
* Agility +1 = Attack Rating +10
* 100 - ((Monster's Base Dodge %) x ((1 / 2 ) ^ ((Attack Rating / 25) - 1))) = Aim %
* Evasion ratio rises
* Agility +1 = Dodge Rating +10
* (100 - Monster's Base Aim %) * ((1 / 2) ^ ((Dodge Rating / 25) - 1)) = Dodge %
* Physical and magical critical ratio rises. (Your critical rate is raised by 1% per every 20 Agility.) Criticals double your attack.


All basic attributes can be raised to a maximum of 525.

peace out...crit on!

mbrunestud

you could try it out, or you could use a good simulator.

every dex does not add 10 dodge and 10 evasion, unless you're a bm. my question is that, how much more are you doing than a pure dex archer with the same equipment? you speak of **** kicking, but your equipment was pretty neat in the first place. fact: at lvl 45 assuming 25 strength to wield a bow and all else into dex, you're essentially 1 base crit ahead of a pure dex archer.

i put some theoretical archer stat distributions into that simulator at ecatomb, (it seems to be accurate, because it was able to recreate my archer's damage based on what I put in)

and this is my comparison:
both archers at lvl 45, one has 50 str, one has 25; both wielding lvl 42 bow (to even the playing field). I'm assuming the rest into dex. no magic, vit funny business

pure dex: 664-1148; 10% crit --> 996.6 avg
purer dex: 715-1235; 11% crit --> 1020.84 avg

feel free to correct me if i calculated something wrong

my conclusion is that it may make a lot more difference at later levels, when you have more dex to play with, your strength remaining at 45 to be able to wield the lvl 82 bow, for example:

at lvl 82, wielding lvl 82 bow:

pure dex: 1969-3435, 17% crit --> 3161.34 avg damage output
purer dex: (45 str required to wield bow, all rest into dex) 2142-3737, 19% crit --> 3498.01 avg damage output

now i need someone to maybe put up some armor comparisons. like, realistically what they have at the high levels versus the rank equipment. Will rank armor suffice?

Lcewolf - Lost City

Well, I wish you luck with this but you are in Lost City, and people can PK you. You might lose your armor with the +stats on it and lose money, I think you lose armor, right?

mogwai

The character builder is incorrect, perhaps from faulty spreadsheet writing...i've stopped using it. It does give a good general idea though. I'm not going to spend another hour there just to prove it lol.

What can't be included in there is, stats for equipment, lv of skills, personal skills, buffs, or even the correct name of the equipment in question. It's not like we run around fighting mobs with no buffs, or armor bought from an NPC. So in this post there is 2 screenies that show how it looks when about to attack.

This character is played on Sanctuary server.

Anyways, here's a couple pics grouped together in the way you'd wear them...

In this 1st one, you can see the currently equipped gear, note using iron ore shot, never tried lead shot yet, & i'd like to add another socket to the Sinister Shooter soon, just cause PEW-PEW! b:chuckle

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj53/Rigamarole/eq1.jpg

In the second shot, you can see that 5 strength points can be re-set to dex for another crit percentile, also 2 back up rings incase things change in the future. For example, the maximum str requirement for any gear is now 25, i'd like to find Boots of Dawn with -15% requirement & at least +2 dex.

Both archer buffs are on, but not yet maxed to current lv.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj53/Rigamarole/eq2.jpg

O, when a strong skill crits, it sometimes tops 5k--UPDATE: just seen 5,189 owchies!

This character is nowhere as uber as it could be, nor am i claiming that it is, i'm just saying its a very pleasant way to grind.

I still do plan on grinding for more rep, spirit, & coin in Swiftwind.

P.S. i like the looks of bows, but only equip them when the damage output far exceeds a sling.

mbrunestud

stats for weapons and accessories (rings), lvl for skills are completely irrelevant, b/c here we're talking about the viability of stat builds. this means u have to at least assume that the pure dex archer has the same lvl of equipment and the same lvl of skills as the purer stat archer, otherwise its simply a question of whos richer and whos grinded more. u can't say a build works b/c u have these weapons and these rings and that allows for massive amount of damage while my archer is dirt poor and has mob dropped items; u have to compare stat builds on equal grounds and then evaluate whether the armor available to both builds makes ur build worth it

the only thing we then discuss is armor - whether sticking to the rank armor versus the available light armor is a decent trade off. for that we need a comparison of the rank armor versus at least 3 star armor that have a str requirement

mogwai

i see your point on even comparison, in a way though, grinding for rep armor will enable the purchase or crafting of better & better equipment

R1 lv 30 300 rep-easily doable through completion of all quests to that point
R2 lv 40 1,000 rep-not so easy, lots of 1 man armys, fb's, donations, wraith tags, etc
R3 lv 50 2,500 rep-my main char didn't get this until around lv 67 ( not big on fb's)
R4 lv 60 5,000 rep-on Sanctuary there's only a handfull of folks that made 5k rep by lv 60..also note that 3,032 rep is my goal before i dare lv to 46 (the rep given in all quests from lv 46-59 + 3,032 add up to 5,000, it is at this point (lv 60) that i will consider adding more strength.
--now just for shizbits & giggles--
R5 lv 70 10,000 rep
R6 lv 80 35,000 rep
R7 lv 90 100,000 rep
R8 lv 100 200,000 rep
R9 dunno if there is rank 9

in my current shoes, i believe the str requirement for 3*** armor is 44, not worth loosing the 1% crit imo
as str is already at 30 & i'm talking about re-setting 5 points for 1 more crit = 2% difference

if that is done then it'll crit 16%, or every 6.25 shots

also, i agree that purer dex would be dangerous at higher levels, but if you want to lv up an archer very quickly, then with no doubt purer dex is the way to go

thanks for giving it a name DeliaLotus

sillyfoo

To be honest you wont be getting lvl equivalent rank gear unless you live in fbs, do one man army, and get wraith dog tags. 100k rep is nuts b:surrender your better off just buying armor of sorrow and dark shingaurds of hedes and sticking with it till 90. Now im not saying rank equipment isnt worth it cause it is but i think anyone would be exhausted. If your willing to take your time then i can see it being done. Most rep i seen on a person in LC is 20k+b:dirty.