The +1% crit arrow

Nayiro - Sanctuary

I'm sure many of you know htis by now, but I just want a GM confirmation on it.
Can I use the +1% crit arrow by equipping a bow, then the arrow, then equipping my real weapon and just using the arrow for the +1% crit? From how I look at it, it seems perfectly fine, but I heard from others that it's a glitch, so can I get GM confirmation? This is on my Blademaster BTW.

Thanks.

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

I would also like to know if this is okay. Otherwise I ain't touching it. LOL.

Serjah - Heavens Tear

no1 can see ur ammo, so unless the GM logs ur account to check , u will be fine

thom

It is clearly a bug, but when asking through ticket in support, they didnt say yes or no to using it.

Ermosa - Heavens Tear

doesn't it give +1% crit only when u shoot?

thom

Ermosa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

doesn't it give +1% crit only when u shoot?

it gives 1% more crit to any weapon you use.

Serjah - Heavens Tear

Ermosa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

doesn't it give +1% crit only when u shoot?

its permanent 1% crit for all BUT ARCHER classes , since only archers use ammo to attack
so if u are an archer u are deprived of 1% crit
another IMBA thing about this lame game b:victory

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

another IMBA thing about this lame game b:victory

Apparently you don,t find it so lame, to have made it to level 92 b:chuckle

Mua - Lost City

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

its permanent 1% crit for all BUT ARCHER classes , since only archers use ammo to attack
so if u are an archer u are deprived of 1% crit
another IMBA thing about this lame game b:victory

Archers get an incredible crit rate at high levels, who cares if everyone else is allowed an extra 1% :P

Cheaper - Heavens Tear

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

its permanent 1% crit for all BUT ARCHER classes , since only archers use ammo to attack
so if u are an archer u are deprived of 1% crit
another IMBA thing about this lame game b:victory

make a bunch of crit arrows or bolts or w/e b:beatup (:

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

Archers get an incredible crit rate at high levels, who cares if everyone else is allowed an extra 1% :P

I have to quote Mua on this. Archers going "it's so unfair!" is ridiculous. You have amazing crit already because of your build. A 1% crit is jack squat in comparison.

I merely refuse to touch it because I don't know if it's allowed or not. XD

Serjah - Heavens Tear

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have to quote Mua on this. Archers going "it's so unfair!" is ridiculous. You have amazing crit already because of your build. A 1% crit is jack squat in comparison.

I merely refuse to touch it because I don't know if it's allowed or not. XD

thats why we chose ARCHER, for AMAZING CRIT

why is it fair for ALL OTHER CLASSES to have 1 extra, the other classes PUT DEX IF U WANT TO CRIT, DONT USE BUGS

Mua - Lost City

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

thats why we chose ARCHER, for AMAZING CRIT

why is it fair for ALL OTHER CLASSES to have 1 extra, the other classes PUT DEX IF U WANT TO CRIT, DONT USE BUGS

And we could say "MAKE A VENO IF YOU WANT EASY EXP, DONT USE BUGS TO ZHEN"

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

thats why we chose ARCHER, for AMAZING CRIT

why is it fair for ALL OTHER CLASSES to have 1 extra, the other classes PUT DEX IF U WANT TO CRIT, DONT USE BUGS

"Why is it fair?" Because you don't have to sacrifice damage for crit. ^^ All other classes do. Which is fine, I'm not turning this into an "archers are overpowered!" discussion. Since I find this game unbelievably balanced. But you don't, so... yeah.

We don't know if it's a bug.That's why this thread exists. No player can answer this question because they lack the authority to do so. So until a GM themself tells me it IS a bug, I will label it as "unknown" and avoid touching it.

magicboy7111

I'm pretty sure that this is a bug. This is simply because the Christmas reward for collecting the rare cards was +1% crit for all classes. This is known as Christmas Blessing and is relatively expensive. Also, it would be unfair for there to be a bonus for all classes except archers.

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

magicboy7111 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that this is a bug. This is simply because the Christmas reward for collecting the rare cards was +1% crit for all classes. This is known as Christmas Blessing and is relatively expensive. Also, it would be unfair for there to be a bonus for all classes except archers.

So it's unfair JUST because archers can't really utilize it? Okay, so it's unfair Venos have pets that battle with them and no one else does. It's unfair clerics have a heal skill. Not the best logic to use.

The crit came in the form of ammo... that archers must use when firing their weapon. The crit is applied before you use the ammo. Is that the bug? Or is it because the ammo stays equipped when you unequip the bow? Were these things intended by the developers or were they being lazy?

I mean (taking devil's advocate for fun) crossbows and slingshots can ONLY be equipped by archers. But bows can be equipped to any class with enough dex and str. Is THAT a bug or was it intended? Did they just FORGET to make bows only for archers? Also, is the crit % bonus specific to ONLY arrows and not bolts or shot?

Those are the questions people should be asking.

magicboy7111

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So it's unfair JUST because archers can't really utilize it? Okay, so it's unfair Venos have pets that battle with them and no one else does. It's unfair clerics have a heal skill. Not the best logic to use.

It would be unfair, for example, if a new item was implemented that, when used, gave a permenant +1 strength to every class except blademasters. Sure, blademasters naturally have a lot of strength. But does that mean it is fair for there for be a bonus for every other class and not them?

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

magicboy7111 wrote: »

It would be unfair, for example, if a new item was implemented that, when used, gave a permenant +1 strength to every class except blademasters. Sure, blademasters naturally have a lot of strength. But does that mean it is fair for there for be a bonus for every other class and not them?

Except that the arrows are not "new items", they've been around since the beginning. As I pointed out before, archers are the ONLY class that do not have to take away from their steady damage output to increase their crit rate. Christmas Blessing was equippable for ALL classes because it has NOT been around since the beginning and they could NOT risk messing up class balance. Plus you'd get a LOT of complaining because an entire class would be left out of an EVENT.


Take the following into consideration:

- Bows just happen to be the only archer weapon equippable to other classes.
- This ammo just happens to be for bows.
- The crit % just happens to be applied without firing the ammo.
- The ammo just happens to stay equipped when unequipping the bow.
- Archers just happen to be the ONLY class that can increase their damage AND crit with the same stat.
- The crit bonus just happens to be a minimal amount that lets archers keep their title as the "Crit Queens/Kings".

Those are a lot of things that line up right to be "just coincidences".

Maybe this was implimented as a balance issue? Archers need high crit and high damage, it makes them archers. (Along with high evasion and aim.) They get ALL of this out of 1 stat. Every one else has to sacrifice damage to get crit. This is understandable since they're not known for it. However, it poses an unbalance issue if not carefully counteracted.

Can you imagine just stacking more crit onto an archer? They don't need it. Every other class sure as heck could use it though. It wouldn't make them overpowered, just 1%. So how is it "unfair"? Are the archers at a disadvantage because they can't constantly stack 1% onto their already large crit pool? No, they're not. There is no disadvantage served to them. Without that, it cannot be "unfair" since you need an imbalanced playing field for that to be the case.

It's like me complaining that birds can fly and I can't when I'm human. It's not needed. It gives me no disadvantage. I'm perfectly fine without the ability to fly. Just as archers are beyond perfectly fine without crit arrows. I have legs to get around. They have scary dex builds for high crit without any loss to damage output.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that whether something is fair or unfair does NOT decide if it is a bug. Things that are unfair in a game can be 100% bugfree because they still operate as intended. This thread was started to ask for a GM to answer if this is a glitch, not to debate if it is or isn't fair.

Serjah - Heavens Tear

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

And we could say "MAKE A VENO IF YOU WANT EASY EXP, DONT USE BUGS TO ZHEN"

and you could say "WHO TOLD U I ZHEN?"

dont change the subject, the zhen skill clearly says "LASTS UNTIL PRESS ESC or CANCELED"

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the zhen skill clearly says "LASTS UNTIL PRESS ESC or CANCELED"

Serjah is 100% correct on this. As is explained by xarfox on this page, 2nd post down:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=102241&highlight=zhenning&page=21

And I really have to bookmark that. lol. It's a pain to dig up. ><

EDIT: I'm posting this just so we don't get into an "Is zhen legal or not?" debate.

Nayiro - Sanctuary

im still just waiting on GM confirmation on this honestly. You all make valid points but think about it this way.

A heavy plate provides +1% crit, so should only heavy armor classes/builds be able to use it?

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

Nayiro - Sanctuary wrote: »

im still just waiting on GM confirmation on this honestly. You all make valid points but think about it this way.

A heavy plate provides +1% crit, so should only heavy armor classes/builds be able to use it?

There is light armor and robe armor that gives crit % as well.

*shakes head at own thought* This game is so balanced it boggles my mind. x3

I also noticed that crossbows and slingshots are the only class-specific weapons. After some research I found out some shot has a -5% channeling speed and some bolts have a 10% aim bonus. The developers definately made sure no one could utilize those whatsoever except archers. Maybe they really did want other classes to use the crit bonus arrows?

It's all still merely speculation though.

Twilyte - Heavens Tear

Actually this has been weighed in on, just not officially answered on this version.

The answer that was "handed down" (because every other version outside of China is hosted via a license, not run by PW-Entertainment like this one), was that there were no plans to change it. Weapons were designed to be hot swapped if needed and that archers do get the benefit of these items, with the exception that the items get used during combat. However, if an archer were to hot swap out his/her bow for a close range melee weapon, then they also would have the benefit without consuming the ammuntion.

The facts are that it does not give an "amazing advantage" over any other player. It is a 1/100th extra chance to do extra damage. Most spell casters go heavy magic in their builds, just enough strength for gear and possibly some vitality. This would give them a whopping 2% crit chance *trembles in fear*.

Any higher chance would involve the use of +% crit gear, which comes available to all classes, including archers, or as someone mentioned, at the expense of other abilities, most notably damage output, of which archers do not sacrifice in order to increase their crit chances.

Personally, if a mere 1/100th of a chance is perceived as an imbalance and a threat to the archers' way of life, then they need to use the wood from their weapons to make a bridge over the river of their tears and get over it.

There are bigger fish to squabble over and if THIS is the (no pun intended) most critical thing we can disect, then we are WAY ahead of all the other ported versions in terms of game play satisfaction! (which we are, btw!)

magicboy7111

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Can you imagine just stacking more crit onto an archer? They don't need it. Every other class sure as heck could use it though. It wouldn't make them overpowered, just 1%. So how is it "unfair"? Are the archers at a disadvantage because they can't constantly stack 1% onto their already large crit pool? No, they're not. There is no disadvantage served to them. Without that, it cannot be "unfair" since you need an imbalanced playing field for that to be the case.

Archers get crit with dexterity. But don’t blademasters get physical defense from strength without sacrificing damage? Don’t clerics, wizards, and venomancers get a lot of mana without sacrificing damage? It’s the same concept. Archers get high critical hit % because it comes with dexterity. Clerics get high mana because it comes with magic. But that doesn’t mean its fair for all other classes except magic users to get bonus mana. Just because a stat grants something that comes with damage doesn’t mean other classes don’t get bonuses from their stats too.

mogwai

Haven't seen any official input on glitch or not yet

It should be pointed out though that going from 1% crit to 2% would normally take 4 levels worth of stats to achieve the same results.

Seeing that this is a game of percentages, i believe that even only 1% more is significant as it doubles the odds for arcane builds.

What if bosses dropped twice as many molders?, What if players died twice as often?, What if gold were 1/2 price?, would the same ratio when applied to other situations cause so little concern then?

magicboy7111

mogwai wrote: »

What if gold were 1/2 price?

This brings up a good point. Since venomancers have been known as the soloer class, what if gold were 1/2 price for every class except venomancers? Would that be fair since all venomancers are so rich anyways from all of the farming?

Mua - Lost City

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and you could say "WHO TOLD U I ZHEN?"

dont change the subject, the zhen skill clearly says "LASTS UNTIL PRESS ESC or CANCELED"

Even if it's not officially a bug, not only could that same argument apply to crit arrows but it's just as exploitable.

This is such a minor thing, It's like clerics complaining about that mage heal skill. The arrows only give 1% and guess what? DOUBLE 1 IS STILL JUST 2. You're just making Mount Everest out of an anthill, find something better to QQ about.

magicboy7111 wrote: »

This brings up a good point. Since venomancers have been known as the soloer class, what if gold were 1/2 price for every class except venomancers? Would that be fair since all venomancers are so rich anyways from all of the farming?

Don't make silly comparisons, 1% crit is a minor bonus, 1/2 price gold is something that would actually affect people's gaming experience. Cheaper CS hieros and dolls? Not to mention those items that help with refining.

mecurial

this is a common bug ...bm, barb, all use this crit arrow, and others except achers use -5% channling shot... all fair and square

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

think about this for one second.

One:
All clases can use the arrow, so no one gets any unfair advantage.

Secondly:
Just how many builds are there that focus on crit other than archers? do you really think 1% is going to break the game when you only have 1-5% to start with anyways?

Summary, everyone can use it, crit builds are almost non existant (cept archers that will use the arrows up). Its not even an issue, go get a arrow from fb19 and write home to your parents about your new allmighty 2% crit rate.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

well it helps crit BM builds , and double crit seems significant even if its just 1-2%

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

Crit Bm's are fist types and how many of those do you see running around at lvl 70?

Then "double" is very misleading. By that logic buying 2 lotto tickets doubles your chances to win the lotto -has that ever worked out for anyone?

I'm a crit veno build with 11% crit (including a super leet hax arrow) and even with a "whopping" 11% I don't really get nearly 1/10 critical hits.(Also on bosses critical rate seems 1/2'ed) To put any kind of faith in crit's you need to be around the 20-30% crit rate for it to be effective (I plan to get there at lvl 89'sih).