Botting Punishment Discussion

InstantMoney - Heavens Tear

Like a lot of people, I feel the punishment for botters is too light. This will only encourage others to bot. Botting should be a permanent ban. As stated in the other threads, botting ruins the games economy. Why should a botter be able to get his or her account back after they have been caught botting?

I am not talking about people who are accused of botting but the people who have been investigated and were in fact found to be botting. Anyone accused of or caught botting should be intensively looked at. If they are found to be botting, they should get a Permanent Ban.

This is just public discussion and I would like to read what the rest of the PWI community thinks.

Jeiiy - Heavens Tear

They'll just close it, it's useless! >_<;;

InstantMoney - Heavens Tear

Jeiiy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They'll just close it, it's useless! >_<;;

You are more than likely right. But I just hate when they close perfectly valid discussions.

Miatemaro - Heavens Tear

Anyone accused of or caught botting should be intensively looked at. If they are found to be botting, they should get a Permanent Ban.


I believe that to say it all. However the real problem becomes how exactly do you prove that someone is in fact botting. yes some ways are fairly obvious to detect. And some people who are innocent can be caught and regardless of how well they are investigated.

InstantMoney - Heavens Tear

Without going into details, there are alot of ways to monitor and catch suspected botters.

My problem is if that some of the botters they have caught RED-HANDED are given only a temporary ban.

gattsuru

Why do the Mods/GMs/Admins keep closing threads that deal with this topic?

Because the point of having moderators is to have them uphold the rules, and that includes the rules against posts directed at Perfect World Entertainment staff, posts discussing personal information, posts discussing disciplinary actions administered to members (or rumors of actions administered to members), or in one particularly illuminating case providing free advertising to the very scum of the Earth sending the sort of software that's at the root of the problem around.

I'm not pulling this stuff out of my hat, or doing it because I Don't Like You (<badjoke>I dislike everyone equally, excluding evilrysis, who'd probably be insulted if I said that about him. I dislike him an extra special huggy bunch</badjoke>).

You want to have a post saying Botters Should Be Perma-Banned? Not. A. Problem. I agree, although my opinion on internal policy doesn't mean a gust in a hurricane factory. That doesn't break the rules, and I try not to act outside of said rules.

Just make sure you can herd cats well enough that the other posters don't step across the line in the sand.

InstantMoney - Heavens Tear

gattsuru wrote: »

Because the point of having moderators is to have them uphold the rules, and that includes the rules against posts directed at Perfect World Entertainment staff, posts discussing personal information, posts discussing disciplinary actions administered to members (or rumors of actions administered to members), or in one particularly illuminating case providing free advertising to the very scum of the Earth sending the sort of software that's at the root of the problem around.

I'm not pulling this stuff out of my hat, or doing it because I Don't Like You (I dislike everyone equally, excluding evilrysis, who'd probably be insulted if I said that about him).

You want to have a post saying Botters Should Be Perma-Banned? Not. A. Problem. I agree, although my opinion on internal policy doesn't mean a gust in a hurricane factory. That doesn't break the rules, and I try not to act outside of said rules.

Just make sure you can herd cats well enough that the other posters don't step across the line in the sand.

I agree with you on the rules. But isnt it just as easy for a single post to be deleted or edited as it is to close a thread?

gattsuru

When the thread topic has a problem, or the start of one, it's a bit of a pain to change significantly (partially due to the UI, partly due to the Red Queen's Race of trying to beat posters).

This thread was better than most, and still takes a chainsaw rather than a scapel.

Jeiiy - Heavens Tear

+1 for not closing this thread.

Now DISCUSS!
(Remember to discuss BY the rules, or this thread might get locked)

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

I agree, the ban should be permanent. Simply because, as stated before, it ruins the game. I've played games with uncontrolled botters. I will not name them, I don't feel like advertising to anyone. But I will point out that there's very little more upsetting than seeing someone get away with becoming rich or a high level in a game without ever playing it. Especially when you work hard on your character. It's just frustrating to the honest player. Which led me to quitting said past game.

Let's face it, someone who doesn't mind if they're botting or not isn't going to care less about a temporary ban. They'll just return over and over and over... they've already shown they don't care what anyone online thinks of their behavior.


*Rereads her post* I do believe I kept within the rules. Thank you gattsuru for not closing this. And same goes to the OP and everyone else who hasn't posted anything close-worthy. b:victory

Mistree - Heavens Tear

Im guessing this thread was started cause of the guy standing in the middle of Arch for the past day and a half advertising a botting website. I know I and many other reported him followed by a quick trip to the blacklist. I do however wonder how he managed to get away with so many hours of nonstop spaming the same website over and over.

I do agree that people who cheat should be permabanned from the game, but in truth theres so many ways for these people to get back on by masking their IP's (prime example are the RTM shops which plague so much of the mmo comunity) or various other means.

My advice is just report them and hope for the best.

Serjah - Heavens Tear

PUNISHMENT should be PERM BAN, end of story

i would have botted too if i knew 3 days is the MAX PUNISHMENT

i know people that got 6-7 lvls (80+) and got 3 days ban
thats like saying: GO AHEAD AND BOT , after 2-3 weeks of nonstop exp u get 3 day vacation

thom

Yeah permaban the account when caught. No botter should walk away with a temp ban...

Temp ban is nothing, any temporary punishment means nothing in these games.
Its just inviting people to cheat.

Sad that the botting still seems to be a problem, it was supposed to be rooted out when the server started.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

Mistree - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I do however wonder how he managed to get away with so many hours of nonstop spaming the same website over and over.

The GMs must have been on vacation at that time. I also reported it a couple of time, with no success having him kicked out.

As for the players bots and bans...

Someone I now from a couple of others free games withcash shops like PW was caught botting. He then proceeded to contact the admins of those games, saying something like "check my account and the quantity of money I spent on this game already". And sure enough he was soon unbanned.

I don't know if PWE do the same thing, but it would not surprise me if they do. They need money to continue operating, and I doubt they would permaban a heavy cash shop user. All the others free games must be doing it too. Of course, no one will officially admit it.... But the way the games earn money open the door to such things. QUite frankly, if you were at their places, would you permaban a player spending maybe 100 or 200$ regularly on your game?

Subscription based games on the other hand must react to botters more strongly, since they cannot afford to loose too many monthly subscribers over botters.

SmokeBong - Heavens Tear

It seems that GM/administration staff simply ignore the issue, i think i was playing a holy year game that most of here probably know very well starting with S... and there is even worse but the botting in that game is like 80% of the player base. So if we dont have any official state from the company then its look like this game will turn out like the game i mention above.

gattsuru

Blancheneige, the User Violation chain does not have a pay scale strapped to the side here.

SmokeBong, the GM staff have been active.

SmokeBong - Heavens Tear

Anyway, im sure the managment/administration is reading the threat and my 2 cents are - root out the botters before the problem to start getting serious. you know how to do it, its your bussines but you need to find out how.

Dalliah - Heavens Tear

Most people follow the rules, even I do.


The only problem with botters is the point that they know the right programs to get through Bans and stuff making them somewhat impossible to get rid of.

Hackers aren't that easy to get rid of.

chaos25

I agree a week is way too short. Im currently banned for a mistake THEY made and since they are taking forever I'm going to be banned for longer than a botter for a mistake they made..

Dalliah - Heavens Tear

uh....


This thread is about botters, not people who are close to people who Exploit and then end up getting banned.

chaos25

Exploit? Their auto banner thought I was from China and I'm clearly not and it hasn't been resolved.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

gattsuru wrote: »

Blancheneige, the User Violation chain does not have a pay scale strapped to the side here..

I know there is not. That's why I also wrote "no one will officially admit it" and "I don't know if PWE do the same thing" b:chuckle

Also take note that in the exemple I gave (about other games than PWE), the GMs did ban the botters. But the bans were lifted at a higher level on the administrative level.

Renara - Heavens Tear

chaos25 wrote: »

I agree a week is way too short. Im currently banned for a mistake THEY made and since they are taking forever I'm going to be banned for longer than a botter for a mistake they made..

That's what scares me about permanent bans: mistakes. They happen in every line of business. Mistakes are why people balance their checkbooks. They're why the RIAA tried to sue deceased people, and grandmothers who never heard of mp3s, for music piracy. They're why innocent people are locked away in prison, or even executed. What if the GMs make a mistake and permaban someone who isn't actually botting?

I have a friend who's often so narrowly focused on what he's doing that I have to call him on the phone to get his attention while he's playing; he seldom notices my pms. I hate to think about what will happen if a GM ever pms him to see if he's a bot.

ISLEOFPEN - Heavens Tear

lol your friend is a bot. the gm doesn't pm you, they appears next to you to bot check.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

ive had them pm, a moment later they appeared beside me too though

Zoe - Heavens Tear

In another version a GM appeared next to me, pmed me and told me to respond in 5 seconds or I'm banned. Nice way to check for bots. lol

Of course they only did that if they were sure you aren't simply afk.

Cheaper - Heavens Tear

tempting to go bot if it's only 3 days of ban.

Mainachan - Sanctuary

Cheaper - Heavens Tear wrote: »

tempting to go bot if it's only 3 days of ban.

Botting just accelerates the ruin of an economy like this one (and many others). It's doomed to start with, anyone who knows economics knows that since every player can print money (kill a mob get gold), the economy is doomed. No game can really provide enough gold sinks to off set it.

Botting is also kinda stupid, has anyone looked at the price of gold from these sites? We can buy gold from the designers cheaper. You can then sell it on these sites for a profit.

Anyone buying gold from these sites is a total noob idiot, the same amount of money in the cash shop gets you more gold (just based off a flat 100K=1 gold).

Botting for xp, well that's epeen, that some haven't learned, that doesn't matter to anyone but the people who would bot to get it in the first place.

Sure better punishments for people who violate the rules, but ruin the economy? No it's something you can do (buy gold with real money) from the designers themselves.b:victory (and 90% of the time cheaper).

If you need to buy gold online, do it from the cash shop and auction house, at least the money goes to support the game.

Maina

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

Just my 5cents(or 2 or w/e)

Sure botting sux and the simple fact is there is no mmo in existance where players don't bot sometimes.

Maybe the focus should be on "why are players botting" rather than "lets ban them baddies". I'm not saying botting is good or anything along those lines but seriousley I'm not impressed by the community in the PWE servers compared to my-en for example. No one does unwined fb's, its nearly impossible to get a TT run unless you practically sleep with a barbarian and a priest. I can totally see why some ppl would prefer to just bot until they are able to solo acomplish tasks the comunity is to lazy/selfish to help with.

Akaiakai - Heavens Tear

Serjah - Heavens Tear wrote: »

PUNISHMENT should be PERM BAN, end of story

i would have botted too if i knew 3 days is the MAX PUNISHMENT

i know people that got 6-7 lvls (80+) and got 3 days ban
thats like saying: GO AHEAD AND BOT , after 2-3 weeks of nonstop exp u get 3 day vacation

Not only 6-7 lvls , think of the amount of money collected from botting as well. Even if GM decides that they will lose this huge cashshop buyer by perm banning , they should at least increase the duration of ban and removed all experienced/money gained from the 1+week of botting. I think I don't even need to mention names, most ppl know who is it.

I was also told to send a ticket regarding the policy of botting to get a respond instead of posting here few days ago , my thread was locked. I've sent the ticket but till now , there isn't a reply at all. It does looks like GMs are just trying to avoid this issue.

Akaiakai - Heavens Tear

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just my 5cents(or 2 or w/e)

Sure botting sux and the simple fact is there is no mmo in existance where players don't bot sometimes.

Maybe the focus should be on "why are players botting" rather than "lets ban them baddies". I'm not saying botting is good or anything along those lines but seriousley I'm not impressed by the community in the PWE servers compared to my-en for example. No one does unwined fb's, its nearly impossible to get a TT run unless you practically sleep with a barbarian and a priest. I can totally see why some ppl would prefer to just bot until they are able to solo acomplish tasks the comunity is to lazy/selfish to help with.

Says the member of a guild that accept a botter back into guild , great job Evolution. If you even have experience in mmo , you'll know botting/hacking are the taboo of any mmo.