venoancers unfair advantage

Kevodonis - Heavens Tear

After seeing yet more pets appear for venomancers making them even more overpowered i had to wonder is there ever going to be anything to equal the game out for other classes.

As a blademaster (using swords) i have found that the only thing that ever comes out for our class is either flying swords or rides and i have to ask are we ever going to get anything that helps in game other than mobility.

All the things of use go to the venomancer class it is quite unfair !.it seems that the developers of this game care for the veno class more than every other nd this will surely drive some players away.

I have spent at least 100 pound in the cash shop (about 170 dollars ) and i know that isnt much compared to what some others will pay but normally i wouldnt even pay half that for a game of this calibre

All i ask for is abit of fairness in the distribution of usefull stuff in the game rather than giving the venos everything

A very disgruntled player

Mua - Lost City

And so it begins, one class gets a handy addition, so the others see it as unfair.

I'm not going to stick around for flaming and arguments but consider this, Mr "Developers care for the veno":

Have you ever been two shot by someone only a few levels higher than you, with no crit?

privn

doesnt it specifically say that the venoancer is supposed to be a solo class? The other classes have equipment and skills that coincide with each other while the venoancer is all by herself. If you ask me the pets are there simply to keep them company.

Cat - Heavens Tear

What I find the most hilarious thing about this, is this is what the 5th version of this game or 6th? Lets see theres the Chinese version, Japanese, Malaysian, Phillipene, Tawian, Europe, and i think Im missing some.

EVERY SINGLE VERSION OF THIS GAME was released before this one cept for europe. EVERY SINGLE version of the game already had hercules and pheonix released.

Its NOT like people didnt know this was coming or should have known. If you didnt like it you shouldnt have started to play or continue. But ranting about it now is a little late dont you think.

as I love to tell my son when hes throwing tantrums... Suck it up Cupcake!

Kevodonis - Heavens Tear

thats exactly what it was a rant made me feel better anyway

my point is are the other classes going to get something usefull to use in game ? like a brilliant sword wand or spell ?

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its NOT like people didnt know this was coming or should have known. If you didnt like it you shouldnt have started to play or continue. But ranting about it now is a little late dont you think.

There is no statute of limitations when it comes to unfairness - otherwise, slaves would still be legal. Besides, not everyone researches the other releases of this game, and simply responds to the patches as they come. Why does it matter when people complain about something, anyway? You've pretty much just invalidated any complaint for gameplay issues based entirely on the fact that it exists in all other versions, and they 'should've known about it before.' Got any problem with the game? "If you didnt like it you shouldnt have started to play or continue. But ranting about it now is a little late dont you think."

Regardless, balance in a game like this is really hard to come by. Balance in PvE breaks down to who can level faster and what they can farm better. Balance in PvP is much easier to notice on a 1vs1 basis, but that isn't necessarily a good way to judge it. PKing is fundamentally imbalanced due to gear and level differences, and TW is mostly about the numbers - levels and amount of players. In all cases, balance is pretty much a joke.

That said, you still don't want an "I win" button for one class and only one class. Really, you don't want an "I win" button for any class as that would terribly simplify the game, making it very boring very fast. It's better to try to get some semblance of balance so that the essence of competition is still there (and yes, even leveling through farming mobs is a competitive activity).

Besides, didn't I read somewhere that in the original version, these legendary pets were nerfed eventually? If that's the case, and we got the pre-nerfed pets, I think the complaints are very much warranted, since that means even the original creators thought they were imba. If we got the post-nerf pets, and they're still imba, maybe PWI devs/mods can do something about it, and the complaints are still warranted.

Cat - Heavens Tear

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There is no statute of limitations when it comes to unfairness - otherwise, slaves would still be legal. Besides, not everyone researches the other releases of this game, and simply responds to the patches as they come. Why does it matter when people complain about something, anyway? You've pretty much just invalidated any complaint for gameplay issues based entirely on the fact that it exists in all other versions, and they 'should've known about it before.' Got any problem with the game? "If you didnt like it you shouldnt have started to play or continue. But ranting about it now is a little late dont you think."

Regardless, balance in a game like this is really hard to come by. Balance in PvE breaks down to who can level faster and what they can farm better. Balance in PvP is much easier to notice on a 1vs1 basis, but that isn't necessarily a good way to judge it. PKing is fundamentally imbalanced due to gear and level differences, and TW is mostly about the numbers - levels and amount of players. In all cases, balance is pretty much a joke.

That said, you still don't want an "I win" button for one class and only one class. Really, you don't want an "I win" button for any class as that would terribly simplify the game, making it very boring very fast. It's better to try to get some semblance of balance so that the essence of competition is still there (and yes, even leveling through farming mobs is a competitive activity).

Besides, didn't I read somewhere that in the original version, these legendary pets were nerfed eventually? If that's the case, and we got the pre-nerfed pets, I think the complaints are very much warranted, since that means even the original creators thought they were imba. If we got the post-nerf pets, and they're still imba, maybe PWI devs/mods can do something about it, and the complaints are still warranted.

This isnt unfairness.. Its the way the game was made from the very first version. Its like saying archers are unfair cause they get slings and bows instead of just bows.

Second this isnt a gameplay issue. Theres nothing wrong with the game. They intended to have the pets in the game and special pets in the cash shop and for them to be strong just as they are.

Third most of the people here have NO IDEA including yourself what the pets are actually like or capable of or if they are really OP. People just want to QQ over something. Some tank probably got pked by one and got butt hurt so goes on a tantrum about how they HAVE to be over powered cause thats the ONLY way he could have died.. *cough* I know plenty of people like this.. Actually about 75% of the player base is like this....

I let a lvl 84 Barb in my guild fight my lvl 80 herc today. The barb only had his own buffs on and wears average eq/weapon nothing refined etc. I didnt heal my Herc and the Barb killed him very easily. But yes my Herc is sooooo overpwered its crazy..

If people dont want to do research before playing a game then they should at least do research after so they know what they are talking about before they complain. If I go and play a game and I dont like the gameplay no I dont **** and moan and cry and whine, I go find a game I like to play. Probably why I only played Rohan for week, or Guild wars for 2 weeks, or any other game that I tried and I didnt like or didnt like something about it.I just moved on to a game I did like and accepted ALL of the way the game is. I played DDO for over a year, then in a mod they added a new death penalty. i didnt like the death penalty they added so I quit playing and starting playing PW MY.

Theres no sense to stay on a game and just spend months whining about it or something you dont like about it. Suck it up or move on. Especially if its part of normal gameplay. This isnt a bug, nerf, issue, or w/e you want to call it. this is the way the game was desgned and intended and the way it is in ALL other versions. Now if its an actual bug or something NOT intended then by all means complain away! Get it fixed. But in this case nothing is actually broken.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This isnt unfairness.. Its the way the game was made from the very first version. Its like saying archers are unfair cause they get slings and bows instead of just bows.

No, it isn't. It would be more like saying (if you must use analogies) archers are unfair because they have "ridiculous skill A" (replace with imba skill of choice). Then, you would back it up with evidence, which is really where most who complain about something fall short. I don't know the details of this legendary pet thing, so I'm not complaining about it. I totally agree with you when it comes to researching before complaining.

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Second this isnt a gameplay issue. Theres nothing wrong with the game. They intended to have the pets in the game and special pets in the cash shop and for them to be strong just as they are.

Just because something is intended, doesn't mean all effects of the intended cause are intended. In other words, the devs may have meant for these pets to be powerful, but not necessarily as powerful as they ended up when weighed against other options (classes, gear, etc). Again, I don't know the details, but the argument that it is intended is entirely irrelevant.

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Third most of the people here have NO IDEA including yourself what the pets are actually like or capable of or if they are really OP. People just want to QQ over something. Some tank probably got pked by one and got butt hurt so goes on a tantrum about how they HAVE to be over powered cause thats the ONLY way he could have died.. *cough* I know plenty of people like this.. Actually about 75% of the player base is like this....

This part I totally agree with, so I'm not getting into it. Then again, every game that had an ounce of competition was like this. I mean, in PONG, people would complain that their paddle was faulty. Soooo nothing new.

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I let a lvl 84 Barb in my guild fight my lvl 80 herc today. The barb only had his own buffs on and wears average eq/weapon nothing refined etc. I didnt heal my Herc and the Barb killed him very easily. But yes my Herc is sooooo overpwered its crazy..

And that is what skewed your results. Well, that and not using your own skills, too. Oh yeah, and the barb was attacking it instead of you. You know, how any other PvP encounter would go. You would also have to use normal survival strategies, such as kiting and such. I mean, you were trying to find out how much the pet helps in PvP, right?

If you're trying to show that the herc is comparable to any other mob, then you really need to compare it to any other mob, not directly against a player. In other words, send the level 80 herc against a level 80 anything, and see how it holds up. If it kicks butt and has plenty of life left, I'd say it's overpowered. But that's just silly me.

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If I go and play a game and I dont like the gameplay no I dont **** and moan and cry and whine, I go find a game I like to play.

Normally, I'd agree with you, but only if it applied to the gameplay as a whole. People who complain about something, or even several somethings, generally love the game, but dislike certain aspects. Surely, even you dislike something about PWI. This isn't the "perfect" game, is it? You're essentially saying that if you don't like something in the game you have two options: shut up and deal, or go play something else. Free speech does not become you, does it?

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Suck it up or move on.

Oh yeah, you do pretty much say that.

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This isnt a bug, nerf, issue, or w/e you want to call it. this is the way the game was desgned and intended and the way it is in ALL other versions.

Just so you are on the same page, a "nerf" is an action developers take in order to balance something in the game that they deem "unfair" or "overpowered." This is done all the time in many competitive games. 9 out of 10 times, the "unfair" or "overpowered" issue is pointed out by players who show they care about the game through complaints.

I can tell you this: the day you stop seeing complaints about a game is the day that game dies.


Also, you didn't seem to address whether or not the original game nerfed the pets or not. Maybe it was because you didn't know the term "nerf," I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? I am interested to find out if the devs/mods of PWI released something in an imbalanced state knowing full well it is later balanced (nerfed).


BTW: I forgot to mention - grats on getting the herc! The big 'ole mean and ugly thing that he is I still haven't seen it in-game. If I see you on, I am so requesting an exhibition!

Mua - Lost City

[QUOTE=Zenpachi - Heavens Tear;1107001send the level 80 herc against a level 80 anything, and see how it holds up. If it kicks butt and has plenty of life left, I'd say it's overpowered. But that's just silly me.[/QUOTE]

I don't want to get into this argument, but it is interesting, and I'd like to point out that any pet with decent resistances will tank something it's own level.

What'd probably be a better "test" would be sending a Herc against something that you believe it shouldn't be able to tank, e.g. mobs 5 levels higher, or 10, perhaps even 15? I've actually beaten mobs several levels higher with a magmite before but I had to spam heal like crazy, so you could compare the result with a Herc.

So yeah, If veno pets couldn't match mobs their own level without constant healing then we'd be the slowest levellers in the game.

Immortality - Heavens Tear

It doesn't matter if they got Hercules or Phoenix ill still 2 hit any veno my own lvl.

Wargasm - Heavens Tear

Kevodonis - Heavens Tear wrote: »

After seeing yet more pets appear for venomancers making them even more overpowered i had to wonder is there ever going to be anything to equal the game out for other classes.

As a blademaster (using swords) i have found that the only thing that ever comes out for our class is either flying swords or rides and i have to ask are we ever going to get anything that helps in game other than mobility.

All the things of use go to the venomancer class it is quite unfair !.it seems that the developers of this game care for the veno class more than every other nd this will surely drive some players away.

I have spent at least 100 pound in the cash shop (about 170 dollars ) and i know that isnt much compared to what some others will pay but normally i wouldnt even pay half that for a game of this calibre

All i ask for is abit of fairness in the distribution of usefull stuff in the game rather than giving the venos everything

A very disgruntled player

I won't bother reading other replies and i do hope someone else said that but blademasters are the most overpowered class and its even way better than the venomancers. Offcourse if you only look at the pve venos are the undisputed champs, but look at pvp. If bm's arent noobs they can keep u stunned 10 seconds or so out of 12 which leave u 2 seconds to attack and/or run away. I seriously soud u bm's have a problem with venos. But yeah i do agree both those factions are OP, but its not only venos.

Malbryn_dord - Sanctuary

The game is set that way it is because it make people challenge themselves the veno pet being an overpower is like the BM's capability to use all melee weapons with their skills and untamed with their animal form or the winged elf with their flying right from the start its how you look at it and its your opinion so i agree suck it up

jemima

Regarding the question of when the other classes have ever gotten anything, I seem to recall there was something, sometime...what was it again?

Ah yes, that's right, new skills, weapons and items, most of which are either unavailable or of no use to Venos. And in fact, I seem to recall that these all came out at the exact same time that the pets did.
Well, whaddaya know. All the classes got stuff.

But I suppose it weakens the argument to say "Well, I think their stuff is better" compared with ignoring all the copious examples counter to your point and simply stating something.

Ooh, I can do it too.
Hitler was the best political leader the world has ever seen. He brought back hope and a sense of unity. He never did anything bad.
The British and everyone just got to hating him because he was so awesome and kept on whining for a nerf because he was the only one who got new Rhineland, and it's so unfair because why couldn't they?


I think I may have lost the plot even more so than the original poster now, so I should probably stop whilst I am, if not ahead, at least not displaying my considerable ignorance like some who shall not be mentioned.

Teseanna - Heavens Tear

This Subject will never die...someone will always hate us.

Archey - Sanctuary

all whiners...please put a dollar in the jar. then grow a pair please cuz nobody cares :P

Xwinterfresh - Heavens Tear

The site even says "Veno = Excellent Solo"

laulacry

dont play the game if youe gunna be a baby about stupid stuff,if anything was fair in this world i would have to eat top ramen

laulacry

wouldnt* XD

laulacry

and to the venos,let them whine,cuz it aint gunna make them win in pvp HAHAHA eat that FOOZ

_ann_ - Heavens Tear

=/ I made many characters but I like my veno the most, I get the "stop hiding behind ur pet " thing a lot I think it is stupid of ppl to say that, then they created a character they had an option to choose any character. so if u are so jealous of veno just go and make a veno -.-

Mua - Lost City

laulacry wrote: »

it aint gunna make them win in pvp HAHAHA eat that FOOZ

Maybe not, but a Phoenix + Flesh ream will.

Hisui - Heavens Tear

I think thats the original reason why secret passage is the most popular PK arena. No phoenix and bees.

Mua - Lost City

Hisui - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think thats the original reason why secret passage is the most popular PK arena. No phoenix and bees.

Not to mention that there's a neverending supply of 3x players to kill.

Flesh_Ripper - Heavens Tear

the only bit i hate about veno is it can't be male and vice versa with barbs
and i don't give a damn about legends it seems fair every other role is
male and female why can't we
i would be playing veno if it wasn't for the female no male problemb:angry

Mua - Lost City

Flesh_Ripper - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the only bit i hate about veno is it can't be male and vice versa with barbs
and i don't give a damn about legends it seems fair every other role is
male and female why can't we
i would be playing veno if it wasn't for the female no male problemb:angry

The female thing put me off initially but once you give them a try you'll find that it's totally worth it. b:victory