Question before I get banned. (No Gouf content)

Defected - Heavens Tear

Please do not take this post as some sarcastic joke or whine. I have a legitimate question that I hope can be discussed in a civilized, non-flaming, adultish manner. I have not been banned - I just want to see if I should make small changes to modify my play style, not worry about all of the crying, or find a new game before I spend anymore money.

I wanted to know if it was possible for a player to be banned for being evil.

No swearing or vulgar language. No harassment, scamming, spamming, cheating, glitching, or anything technically wrong. I'm talking about morally wrong stuff.

Case in point...ME. I grow tired of the rat race. Sometimes questing gets boring. I don't want to go into the PVP server because I like doing things on my terms. The PVE server is great because people choose to be in PVP mode. I enjoy swooping down, killing people before they realize what's going on, and flying away.

Then the whispers come in.

"ur a 5stars."
"com bak here noob. ima gonna 4stars you up"
"ur dead! dunt you now im in[insert faction name here]!!!11!"
And every once in awhile... "I reported you."

Legitimate play-style yes? Probably not your cup of tea, but do you think that's a reason for a ban? I know this is sounding like many other threads, but I assure you there's a point.

Recently I got bored of PVP and PVE and wanted to be extra evil. I remember the dozens of times some jerk has pulled Ch'in into Anglers Village when I'm buying potions from the apothecary. I will openly admit that I have pulled Ch'in (NOT INTO TOWN) but to the surrounding area during wraith events. Pulling him into a safe zone would be technically glitching, so that would be very wrong. Ch'in gets kited to the surrounding area and kills me and other people with AOE. Heck, I did it twice last night at an event. Once to the north area, once to the south area. (again, NOT in town.) The south area killed Ch'in. I was impressed!

Would leading Ch'in around the unsafe areas be a glitch? I argue no. In fact, I find it to be something put on purpose to keep players afraid of Ch'in. You can't just run away from monsters people! Not like those people who dive in the water where he can't get them...

Anywho, I thought I'd put it to the test. This is a beta right? I remember Farng chasing me for 2 minutes after a failed solo at him during lower levels. SCARY stuff. With that in mind, I went to where Ch'in was. I watched a party that failed and wiped, so I took Ch'in on a ride. With hate in my heart, I took him all the way to the outside of the Secret Passage. Boy were they mad when Ch'in wiped the area. I almost pooped myself laughing.

So, I though to myself, "Self! Imagine how many 'WTFs' you'd see from him being near Allies Camp!" So back to Ch'in. Same party, same story. Clerics dead, barb in the water. Ch'in walking away. By now I had used of a huge amount of my bronze charm, but I had some Halloween Treats from that cool event. So glad I didn't sell those all off like a lot of people.

I made it by Orchid Temple main road before Ch'in broke off of me and attacked the same area. I was able to get him back on me and proceeded towards Allies Camp.

That's when the whispers came in.

"ur gon get baned."
"my guild is erporting u."
"haf fun getin baned."
"random mispelled comment about how much of a 4-5 stars I am here"

The thing that bothered me is the part where they said I would be banned. If this is a cause for ban, I accept my punishment. Ignorance is NO excuse for the rules. But if it's not, I'd just like clarification.

Taking Ch'in away 15 times in a row should be cause for alarm. That's taking away from parties that need him to continue questing. The occasional "AHH! It's Ch'in!" outside of town? Hmm. Not nice. (Beta suggestion: lower the timer/distance on Ch'in chasing much like other monsters who lose aggro once you get a certain distance.)

I've read the TOS. I know section 11. I'm not here to argue interpretation. If I was, I could argue that the PVP server be banned or myself be banned for random PKing. I could argue that the factions that spam me whispers with threats and taunts and 4-5 stars or wait outside of town for me be banned. I could argue that zhen parties be banned. I could argue that Veno's be banned. I could argue that the people telling me I'm going to be banned be banned.

What says you community? Disregard the fact that I'm a jerk. I want to make sure I'm not breaking rules. Should I stop PKing people who are questing in PK mode on a PVE server? Should I not have Ch'in do nasty things to people? Should I not put up World Chats that advise AGAINST being in PK mode?

Or should start taking pictures of all you people whispering me bad words and insulting me for ticketing purposes. I never taunt you. You'll never see me use profanity, masked or not. The meanest thing I've said PKing was "Happy Halloween!" and I rarely PK the same person twice. (If I can remember the people I PK, anyway.) You big factions think you're so tough with your green weapons and your MTV. When I was your age the internet was pay by the minute. I remember the only entertainment we had was a Nintendo, and if the game didn't play to your satisfaction you had to blow on the cartridge and not cry to Nintendo. I forgot where I was going with this paragraph so I'll stop.

Discuss. Call me a jerk. Delete/ban. Say I'm your new hero. It's a discussion forum, just be civil.

Hisui - Heavens Tear

Your ability to **** off like, 10 people doesn't make you any more evil than the next guy. So you lured chin and pk'ed people... that's it? I don't think its a ban-able offense

Defected - Heavens Tear

I'm just making sure those 10 people don't have 10 friends who tell 10 friends to report me for something that I'm not even sure about.

Your response made me feel better.

Biovolk - Heavens Tear

i think its a bannable offense in other mmorpgs i played in. its a form of griefing which is generally not tolerated.

Specgoesemo - Lost City

Keep up the good work IMO ^^ If people can't take being grieved then GO PLAY HELLO KITTY ONLINE! Bunch of carebears can't take a little bit of fun...

Angelle - Heavens Tear

X'DD Oh lawd, that was you? My BF told me about someone kiting Ch'in over to Orchid Temple and I roffled so hard.

I do think that is a bit evil, especially for the lower levels hanging around there and they get owned by Ch'in in one hit...but I don't find that bannable either. Besides, I've seen people run off a lot with Krixxix hot on their heels, whether it be on purpose or on accident.

Those people sending you rude comments/remarks should be the ones punished, imo, especially if you didn't say a thing to them.

Eislynn - Sanctuary

I probably would've been extremely annoyed and pissed at losing my 4%, but it's on me for not gtfo-ing of the area that someone kited a boss to. *shrug* **** happens. From what you describe, I can't say if it's bannable or not, since I"m not 100% sure on the rules on griefing in this game, or if there's even any griefing in the game. *shrug*

thom

Cant see anything bannable in that since you specifically avoided bringing Chin to safe zones.

Also it doesnt fall to griefing,since you didnt do it constantly to same people over and over again,you even changed the area where to lure it.

As to pk, well again if not done to same person 24/7,not griefing or grounds for any punishment in my opinion.

Lockie - Heavens Tear

Ah, so that was you. I was outside Hero's Tomb when half of my fb29 charges died. It was most definitely annoying, and highly despicable in my opinion. You are, after all, going for mostly players under 30 there. Ban-worthy? Probably not.

gattsuru

I know you claim to have read them, but here are the terms of service (with the disclaimer than I am Not A Lawyer) :

Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 10 above, you agree not to take any of the following actions:...

* (f) "Stalk," threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;...
* (h) Impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the game or in Interactive Areas on the Site or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS) "spamming" or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or PWE employees;
* (i) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
* (j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
* (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
* (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,...
* (n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

Note that this is an inclusive list, rather than an exclusive one, and that PWE hold the right to terminate a user account at any time for any reason or even for no reason. They do seem to try and be reasonable about things, though.

Harassment of another player is not allowed. Stealing items another player legitimately earned is, likewise, not allowed. Intentionally killing blue-name characters with the use of a mob is almost certainly a violation of the above list. I can't speak for the GMs in this game, but it would not be surprising if they felt it was worth a few days without access to the Service and a stern warning.

Being crude and less than civil is... not advised. While being rude or starting an unfair fight without going to the lengths of harassment is not, on its own, a violation of the terms of service automatically, it does reflect poorly on a person playing a character. Say what you will about karma, but names do go around.

Kazue - Heavens Tear

I think a lot of the higher level don't see this as a big deal cause we can survive several/many hits from chin. And we can either choose to fight back or simplely fly away. might be a different story for the lower level. 1st hit, charm kicks in. Start to fly and get hit a 2nd time. 3rd hit = dead in the air. Even faster for players without charm.

deshin

And how long before you get bored of this. People soon learn your name as being a jerk that is only out for his own fun and does not care about others. So when we need someone for a run do I invite you or do I fear that you might wipe the party on the last boss just for your jollies.

You don't have to get a ban. You will ban yourself when nobody will play with you. when your only options are grind mobs solo or do a stupid trick that you have done hundreds of times before how long before you just quit. If that is you goal then why bother staying around there are many new games to try.

Foxygoth - Heavens Tear

im gonna put my name white i think....lol
lvl 46 random pking sigh

demonicangell

LoL Pissing Off xx People Isnt enough To get Banned Or I Would Be banned For Every mmo Out There By Now Xd

X DemonicAngell X

Defected - Heavens Tear

gattsuru wrote: »

I know you claim to have read them, but here are the terms of service (with the disclaimer than I am Not A Lawyer) :

Note that this is an inclusive list, rather than an exclusive one, and that PWE hold the right to terminate a user account at any time for any reason or even for no reason. They do seem to try and be reasonable about things, though.

Harassment of another player is not allowed. Stealing items another player legitimately earned is, likewise, not allowed. Intentionally killing blue-name characters with the use of a mob is almost certainly a violation of the above list. I can't speak for the GMs in this game, but it would not be surprising if they felt it was worth a few days without access to the Service and a stern warning.

Being crude and less than civil is... not advised. While being rude or starting an unfair fight without going to the lengths of harassment is not, on its own, a violation of the terms of service automatically, it does reflect poorly on a person playing a character. Say what you will about karma, but names do go around.

THIS is what I was looking for. While it is not exactly the best for my interests, it does tell me that I shouldn't be kiting Ch'in. Basically one of the questions I needed answered.

If I get temp banned, I get temp banned. I won't be killing people with mobs in the future. Just killing people killing mobs. Although I realize you were only citing examples of things that violate TOS when you said "Harassment of another player is not allowed. Stealing items another player legitimately earned is, likewise, not allowed." I feel I must still reiterate that I DO NOT DO THAT. The only items I take from players are the red-named ones that drop when I kill them.



I will need to know where to send screenshots of people swearing at me, though. Since I now have confirmation that it's not allowed, I will start exercising the TOS card as well.



I see some responses saying it shouldn't be an offense worthy of banning, but we have to remember that the community does not run PW, PW does. Again, not being sarcastic. Typing things really makes me seem sarcastic for some reason after I re-read what I type.

And yes, I have been denied help many times because they see who I am. I've been in parties for bosses where certain faction members boot me when they find out who I am. I have level 60+ buddies in other factions that can help me when I really need it. Heck, I could always jump on my cleric for a few days and be one of those level 60 people with my "nice" character who doesn't PK.

While I strongly believe in Karma in real life, this is not real life. I enjoy being the bad guy. Everyone needs a bad guy. I want to be the bad guy! What good is a world where everyone is the good guy. I've PK'd people who are in factions where there are multiple members of the same faction next to them. No one stands up to PKs. We need heroes people! If people only knew I died in 1 hit and since day one of PKing I have not brought a single guardian angel with me....

Anyways, I'm getting off tangent. If I get banned, I'm taking people with me. That is all.

But seriously, are all MMO's like this? Maybe it's my Diablo mentality. In Diablo I realized it was a game. (Ok, now I'm getting sarcastic. /end reply)

sweaty

So thats what all that was about. I heard you going on about it in world chat and I asked what you were talking about but you didnt respond. I must add that you arent always a jerk. The other day you were positively helpfull and enjoyable when I needed help killing the Rattus Lord.

I have heard several times of people being "punished" by their faction about agressive PKing, or people just complaining about it. If you ask me if you dont want to die dont go to Player KILL mode.....kind of obvious to me.

I dont see a problem with having chin follow you around and attacking people. If you die you lose 4% of your exp, and as most of the people that die are low levels so it wont take long to regain that experience.

When it starts becoming a problem is if these reletively harmless incedents become too frequent, but it doesnt seem that you are revisiting people or places soon after getting them killed.

I hope this thread is for other players of the game and not for GMs. If every single person on the game tells you to do it more, but the gamemakers think you will lose them $1, you will be gone.

Neverwas - Heavens Tear

i know this is debateable but i never could understand a person's reasoning for acting like a jerk, even if it is a game. it is one thing to do this on a PvP server or somewhere that people may be expecting it, but on a PvE server most people are there just to play the game without some person trying to kill them...lowering their exp, wasting their time, and basically ruining their gameplay.

if you want to kill people, go to where they want to kill you too. yes, it's a game but we are all still people here. being cruel and unreasonable to other human players does indeed say something about your real life personality. for most who act like this, it's a release and something you would never do in real life but then again, that's kinda my point. you're not "awesome" for doing ridiculous and completely unnecessary things to human players, you're a coward because most who do this would never dare do it in real life. if you go around cussing random people, steal from them, try to hurt them or just plain act like a jerk, you will get the **** knocked out of you eventually.

it's unfortunate that players like these will not all stay in a PvP server and curse each other and fight till they all feel better, they feel they must take out their repressed aggression on people who want nothing to do with it while they are safe and sound behind a computer. then after you do these things to people, you threaten to "take them down with you" if you get banned because "your" stupid actions invoked a very negative response from some of them that goes against the TOS as well. this has been such an ongoing peeve of mine every since i started online gaming years ago and the problem obviously will never go away. give these people PvP and it's still not enough, they must continue with ridiculous and childish behavior until they take it out on a person who does not expect it and is just trying to do their quests. but eh, that's life, always a few who insist on making things difficult for others because they think it's fun and makes "them" feel better.

Saiena - Heavens Tear

Personally, I don't think there's a single bannable offense in what you've described in your opening post. In a game THIS focused on grind, a little excitement is a nice thing. To me, if the game designers made it so that bosses follow you for 2+ minutes over vast distances, well, I blame the game developers. Not the player who uses it in moderation. The only thing that would make me angry is if I can't find the boss to complete a quest, but then, that's a personal inconvenience that has no absolutely no relevance to ToS violations.

Plus, from your posts, you seem like a reasonable, intelligent and fun person who is just a little bored. No offense to the rest of the community, but that's more than I can say for 60%+ of the population (*cough* players who turn on PK and wail when they get PK'ed *cough*).

In other words, everything you described seem pretty innocuous (and avoidable if you have half a brain). If I see an unknown boss barreling towards me, even at level 20, I know enough to double jump and fly up a little to see if it's safe to continue my previous activity. If it's not, I usually get a nice light show as others kill, or get killed. And if someone is struggling, I'll try to heal them. Either way, I'm entertained. Perhaps I'm just a bit more cold-hearted.

If I'm afking in a non-safe area, I expect that there's a high chance I'll come back dead.

As for the random PK'ing, well, I don't think I even need to explain why that is avoidable if one has half a brain. Defected is in Heaven's Tear. You had to actively turn on PK. He neither stalks the same person and kills repeatedly, nor does he yell inexcusable insults and slurs. He simply does what the game allows him to do: PK those who actively decided that they want to participate.

So long live your version of "evil!"

Maiya - Lost City

I laugh every time a boss is lured to a safe zone. I wanted to try it with Archosaur once, but I never actually did, I didn't think it would ever work.

Sometimes luring bosses isn't intentional either. One time in closed beta I was flying and forgot about Goldwing, and then he proceeded to follow me, so I went to the Silver Pool teleporter and teleported out.

Luring it once, I see it as fine. But if it's done like 5 times in a row or something or on a repeated schedule, then that I could see as bannable.

Sir_walter - Heavens Tear

Maiya - Lost City wrote: »

I laugh every time a boss is lured to a safe zone. I wanted to try it with Archosaur once, but I never actually did, I didn't think it would ever work.

Sometimes luring bosses isn't intentional either. One time in closed beta I was flying and forgot about Goldwing, and then he proceeded to follow me, so I went to the Silver Pool teleporter and teleported out.

Luring it once, I see it as fine. But if it's done like 5 times in a row or something or on a repeated schedule, then that I could see as bannable.

I was in Silverpool once when that happened, I was luckily high enough level to kill him.

Hisui - Heavens Tear

Specgoesemo - Lost City wrote: »

Keep up the good work IMO ^^ If people can't take being grieved then GO PLAY HELLO KITTY ONLINE! Bunch of carebears can't take a little bit of fun...

Don't even joke HKO is a darn good game.

vagrant0

Congrats, you're a jerk. I hope karma comes back and really kicks you good one of these days. That aside, you cannot be banned for being a jerk, but you can be banned for harassment which comes from being a jerk repeatedly. And oddly enough, you may have trouble finding a place with any of the good guilds just because that guild doesn't want people leaving because your actions reflect poorly on the guild. If you want to grieve, go to the PK server you coward. All of this "I'd like to choose" stuff is really just self serving, and suggests that although you think this stuff is funny, you do not want it happening to you. What goes around, comes around, and if it keeps up, you may find yourself being targeted by people much higher than you for being such a jerk... Go back to runescape.

Jordanfox - Heavens Tear

I don't like jerks. They're, well......jerks. But, to summarize what my fellow PW'ers have said, this game needs a few jerks. Now, I'm not talking about the 13-year-old kid who slings vulgar "noob" comments at everyone within a 5-mile radius; nor am I talking about the people of all ages who beg for help and advice in the most invasive ways possible, to one player, for a whole 30 minutes. (Rant complete!)

This man is no hero, but he is providing variety. I'm not saying that's good for everyone, but if we didn't have the occasional bored guy wanting to be evil, or the kids described above, the rest of us would seem downright dull!

Ban him if he's in violation, but don't take it personally. It ruins the game for you more than he ever could.

Defected - Heavens Tear

vagrant0 wrote: »

Go back to runescape.

I have no idea what that is.

Hisui - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Don't even joke HKO is a darn good game.

I loved HKO...until I was banned.

Jordanfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

don't take it personally. It ruins the game for you more than he ever could.

Holy cow. Gold star. I was going to quote more stuff, but this did the trick.

I do understand the human element of this. I can see where Karma and such come into play. If you ever see me in blue mode, I'm always willing to help out as noted. That balances my character. I'm not some sociopath. I don't think they're anyone on any servers like that. I'm just some low level guy who likes attention. Ignoring me is the best defense.

Off topic: I wish there was an emote to make my character do the robot. I'd like better dancing moves, please. Words cannot express the magic that doing the robot over a corpse can bring.

On topic: If banned, will I know when/for how long or is it a guessing game? I'd like to know so I can give stuff to my guild-mates that I'm holding for them. (Since I don't manufacture or farm, I'm the mule.) They'd be upset if they couldn't manufacture for a few days.

In closing...
If you see me in PK mode, feel free to attack. I'm probably bored and deserve a killin'.
If you see me in blue mode, feel free to attack. I'm probably bored and deserve some attention.

And I was joking about bringing others with me if banned. Sheesh, what am I... some sort of jerk?

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

Kazue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think a lot of the higher level don't see this as a big deal cause we can survive several/many hits from chin.

Beside doing the Villa quest, there is not much reason for a high level to be in the Angler's Village area.

Crash - Heavens Tear

ppl saying that the bosses shouldent follow u to far, come to reality plz, if they diddnt follow u far enough to try kill u then they wouldent be much of a boss that follows u a few yards then walks away so stop saying that its the game designers fault for making the boss follow u for ages.

also to the OP, if u want to act mr evil, just go to the PvP server, every game or server doesnt need an evil person in there for what ever reason or we wud all be in the pvp server if we DIDDNT want to get on with the game and simply just level up, we want to take it easy and be hassel free and just enjoy the game,
if u want to act like a inconsiderat jack **** then go to the pvp serer as ive already said, then see where your pink or red name will get u, apart from face 1st in the floor.

Eveangeline - Heavens Tear

I am sorry but I couldnt help replying here..... to the guy who started this thread.... We have the same sense of humor! You made me giggle so much in your posts, this to me isn't an all around jerk. Just because you have acted some-what jerkish doesn't make you a complete jerk.

I hope you dont get banned as you were just bringing a little variety in to the game, if I died because of it, yes i would be a little pissed, but I have died far more times than you would bring on me just having a little fun.

Keep making me giggle!

EveAngeline

Reikara - Heavens Tear

In my opnion, you cant complain when someone randomly pks you, not on heaven's tear at least. Pvp is optional, you chose it so deal with it >x>

Gwineth - Heavens Tear

Defected - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I wanted to know if it was possible for a player to be banned for being evil....

No, you shouldn't be banned for being evil, but taking quest mob so far from his initial location interfere in bad manner game experience of other players. As you may guess there wont be second Chi'in spawn until this one who you kite being killed or kill you and return to his initial patrolling area. So you cause disturbance and delay in game play of other possible players who meanwhile decided to kill Chi'in. With other words you found how to exploit game and you did it multiple times, that's what for you have to be banned.

And btw all your words for being evil and so on is nothing more than "soul masturbation" of complex suffering person.

Aurumfaramon - Heavens Tear

Eveangeline - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am sorry but I couldnt help replying here..... to the guy who started this thread.... We have the same sense of humor! You made me giggle so much in your posts, this to me isn't an all around jerk. Just because you have acted some-what jerkish doesn't make you a complete jerk.

I hope you dont get banned as you were just bringing a little variety in to the game, if I died because of it, yes i would be a little pissed, but I have died far more times than you would bring on me just having a little fun.

Keep making me giggle!

EveAngeline

You need to go marry him right now, I would eb amused by that.

Defected - Heavens Tear

Now I'm considering remaking a character for the Lost City server. Based on what I'm reading, it is a cesspool of hatred and fail. It's like some evil dimension that Heaven's Tear's criminals are sent to. I'd probably make a male character too. This way when people ask me to fly them somewhere I can drop them in the middle of the ocean.

But then I'd lose my friends. You know, about half of my friends list is people I've PK'd and seen later in town and talked to. You guys should try it. PK = new friends. That's not sarcasm. Of course the others hurl hateful insults at me like Quote: "nice non-HH gear noob." That hurts. Right here. Really bad. That is sarcasm.

Though, I don't think the people killed by Ch'in will be sending a request anytime soon either. They're missing out on all of this.

And all marriage proposals will have to take a number. Like I said, all of this is at stake.

Enough talk, I need to go level up. Rawr.