Fix kill stealing..

acolyte

Hello, please fix the way we "own" a mob in this game!

Cause right now if your trying to lvl up lets say a "tank", you can go attack a mob and even get 1 hit in and out of the blue one damn Veno/spell caster can come and nuke the hell out of it and you get 0 when its dead. And the Veno walks away laughing....

Make it so that if we Attack a mob and are the first to attack the damn mob, we get the credit from killing it even tho someone comes and ksing it.(and thats no matter how much dmg we did in our First attack)

Im so sick of this as it is now and there is nothing we can do about it (on PvE server)
(on PvP server we would just kill the ksing kiddo)

senovit

acolyte wrote: »

Im so sick of this as it is now and there is nothing we can do about it (on PvE server)
(on PvP server we would just kill the ksing kiddo)

I see a solution.

But you know, people are already complaining about ranged attackers who "get the first attack, stop attacking" and get the kill. If you change it to a system like that, you'll legitimize their complaints.

Tara - Lost City

I AGREE this is a joke on us melee people your killing something takes ages Mage/Veno/Archer comes along kills it in 3 hits or less runs off saying "noob" this is a game breaker in my opinion why play a melee class at all if they cant match mage classes its a pointless waste of time..

Edit and they steal your loots too..

Zoe - Heavens Tear

In all the pvp games I've played this same system is in place. The OP said the very reason this system is as it is To promote pk.

Tara - Lost City

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In all the pvp games I've played this same system is in place. The OP said the very reason this system is as it is To promote pk.

Generally the people can three shot you as well as mobs so its pointless to attack these people as they kill you and take you loot/mob melee people need a boost in defense and attack in my opinion..

acolyte

To those that cant see the problem in this.

You try and play a melee class and then when people has ksed you for over 4 hours you still think its funny?

If we dont get a fix on this, then i have to say i must join them then!

:mad:

jdz8

I will only agree to this IF a mob counts as being ATTACKED when CHANTING a spell.
(CHANTING is the phase spellcasters just stand around preparing for a spell.)

Some spells take a long-**** time to chant and during that time a random meleer would just run up to the target (I blame it on the small zoom-option that they can't tell the mob is being targeted, a whole other problem).
I have no problem having a meleer take down some hp from the mob so I can save some mp trying to kill it.

However, it gets really annoying when the meleer thinks the mob was "his/hers" just because they sprinted toward the monster during the middle of my chanting.
Then they proceed to flame me for ksing when I get the kill because my 3s-chant nuke did far more damage then they can hope in the 0.5s they spent getting on one whack on the monster.

No, I will not use faster chanting spells because any decent spellcaster knows that the best way to kite is to have a combo that dishes out the most damage starting from the time the monster is AGGRO'd to the time it dies.


PS: If a spellcaster, espcially a wiz, can get off 3 or even 2 hard-hitting spells on any monster you are trying to kill, they most likely started chanting long before you started attacking.

You don't see many flames from meleers towards archers because they have fast, immediate attacks with pretty much no CHANTING, which makes it obvious the mob you are trying attack is already under attack.

slayer1o1

no you get some exp u guys arent looking close enough.
when you attack a monster, however damage you deal goes onto how much exp and spirt you get.
if you have a whole mob on you, why does it matter if someone kills one or two?!?!?
im a cleric and people ks all the time.
things like that happen all the time.
get used to it.
pw has the game the way it should be in this respect. however much damage you deal if how much exp you get. only time it becomes a problem is in quests. then i see your point.
i know you have heard of a squad.
they are made for a reason
if it gets to bad there is a GM for a reason

Oreln - Heavens Tear

Ranged / Melee ... *sigh*
Just add a provocation skill for melee.

Carpathia - Heavens Tear

This thread just introduced to me to the concept of Kill Stealing. I had to look it up in Wikipedia to get a better understanding of the term.

My understanding of the game mechanics playing a WF is that the first person or party to hit a mob will have a 10-15 second window to grab the drops upon it's death before everyone else. This makes sense to me as it dissuades anyone from "helping" you solely for their own benefit.

Experience however, seems to be distributed to all participants in a party or individuals who attacked the mob regardless of whether they attacked first or last via some mathematical formula. This also makes sense to me as it gives late attackers a reason to help without compromising the 1st attackers rights.

I saw one intelligent post about melee vs magic attackers. A melee needs to run up to a mob while magic has to wait for casting time; so that appears to be a wash. Don't know about archers though.

Several forum posters were complaining about losing their chance at loot because another player had "swooped in at the last minute," delivered the killing blow and secured the rights to the loot. This has not been my experience and as stated earlier, loot appears to go to the first attacker. Does anyone else's experience lead them to believe that this is the case?

krasnansky

I agree with this, being a barbarian and an archer. My lvl 22 archer hits over 1,500+ with critical, and my critical is in effect 6% of my shots. The most i have hit with the barbarian class was a little less than 400... So make barbarians STRONGER! Or have more meaningful (powerful) skills!

Fina - Heavens Tear

I, personally, think complaining about KSing is rediculous.

That's my personal opinion. There are many many many many monsters around. If someone KS where you are just move somewhere else. There are lots of places to go.

Now if someone KS a boss or mini-boss just wait for it to respawn and try again. So you lose 5 minutes of your life...no big deal...just be patient and wait for a second chance.

Or if someone is KSing you, go attack a miniboss that does AoE and lure it to them and get them killed. Shouldn't be a problem if you're a tank.

Sorry, that's just the way I feel about KSing.

Blessing - Heavens Tear

They need to add a "tagging" system.

First person to "tag" them gets the exp/loot from the mob unless the mob gets reseted. Anybody outside of the "tagger's" squad gets nothing.

By tagging, I mean doing any amount of damage to the monster.

Agranok - Heavens Tear

Very true, I dont think there should be any reward for Kill stealing whatsoever. Parties are there for a reason. I would say that giving ANY exp at all to a kser is a crime. there should be no reward for it, and since there is one it is promoting Ksing in itself. Full exp should go to the player who dealt first damage to the mob, simple as that. If players wish to kill things together they can party up. All that giving exp to ksers does is cause problems, i cant think of a single logical reason for the system to work that way.

zaeri

KSers getting exp/drops is the biggest fail of PW-INT

Take the lvl 9 quest to upgrade yourself to Spiritual Adept; I was on my Barb trying to do the part where you kill a certian mob but it took me AN HOUR to kill 9 mobs because long-range veno's kept sending their pets in, which grabs agro to them, and taking my kill. Since there was only a small area with these mobs, it was unbearable. b:irritated

That's another big problem. Veno's pets automaticly grab the mob despite how far into the fight your in, and the veno gets the drops since their pet was tanking on final blow. They NEED to place measures to stop pets doing that, it's a pain. They should only agro the mob when it's their master's mob. Plus the fact veno's can (in lower levels before their low def kicks in) take two mobs at once - attack one, and have you pet save you another one in the meantime.
b:angry

They should make it so once a mob is either a) having a spell cast on it (so people with spells that have long casting time can still get their mob) or b) has damage being put on it full stop it should become untouchable by anyone else (apart from squad members of course!)

No, I'm not compleatly saying veno's suck. I myself love the veno class. But there NEEDS to be changes...

tsukia

KS system is among the first things I carefully check and experience in mmo's.

I am always killing non stop (charms) and noticed that whenever I get the first hit, I always get the kill/quest drop even if I only did 1/4 of the damage (which is why I often fight against 2-3 monsters on venom and cleric lv.30-40 ranges)!

Everyone's saying the opposite and that it actually should be ''this way''. But it's this way for me and I am always trying to tag monsters before everyone else (using quickest spells to claim). Note that I do NOT get the full exp/spirit (real ****) but I can care less. What matters is questing, not ks'ed monster's exp.

Also, I rarely but rarely KS (note: usually, when I see I didn't get the first hit, I just look for another mob unless the person IS a KS'er) but when I do 3/4 of the damage on a KS'ed quest monster, I NEVER! but NEVER get the quest item/kill so I simply see no point in doing so. Btw, I am always unable to loot other's items when I don't get the first hit. Same goes for them when I get it first (dq dq dq items fights!).

I don't want to be the one who stands against everyone but I just find this weird

peregryn

Coming from the other side of equation, I generally strive NOT to kill steal even in cases where a mob I need for a quest has a limited spawn area and I actually get to attack 1 in 10 mobs I target. Once you begin an attack with a casting time it is nearly impossible to abort it even if someone else hits the mob before your skill fires, (and how do you call off a pets attack btw?). Had this problem with Archer, Cleric, Mage, and Veno.

tsukia

I have no problems cancelling the 1 to 1.5 secs tagging&boring grinding spells. It's easy but you literally have to smash the escape key and not by holding it or pressing it once (pressing it only once will result in failing 3/4 of the time since sometimes it's all queud up and blah..).

As for pet attacks, there is always that disgusting and horrible delay in pet commands which is not affected by lag AFAIK since my latency is quite fine and everything else does not lag most of the time whereas Pet commands = well over 70% of the time it has delays or feels like the pet/golem is realllllllly slow to catch up the action? Anyway so, what to do?


1. Sending the pet to attack another monster will work like 1/4 of the time or not even (it'll move to it after it attacked! Btw, got ''Pet Attack alt+1'' mapped to mouse keys!).

2. How about the Follow command? The pet will react like 1-2 secs later more than half of the time if not more after clicking crazy ''Follow''.

3. There's only the stay command left but since I always forget to change it back, the rare times I used it, it stopped attacking quite fast and stayed put. I'd try Stay more often but clicking on it changes the golem's stance to stop so it can often **** you up by making your pet dissapear once you get too far or be late on monsters, since. after all, you can easily forget it ''might'' not be near you whereas Follow is by default. That means mad clicking Follow to not make pet KS is more secure for -you- unless you are used to manually clicking ''Stay > Follow'' since there is no way to bind those. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ........... @!@!!

Zehethos - Heavens Tear

I agree, ******* keep stealing my good kills and they keep going "l0l, t00 b4d!" I WANT MY KILLS BACK!

Support.

Trianos - Heavens Tear

in my experience, the player who does the most damage, regardless of who hit first, gets the credit toward the kill quest and gets to pick up the loot...but the exp+sp are distributed in proportion to the damage amounts!

waffl3ookie

zaeri wrote: »

KSers getting exp/drops is the biggest fail of PW-INT

Take the lvl 9 quest to upgrade yourself to Spiritual Adept; I was on my Barb trying to do the part where you kill a certian mob but it took me AN HOUR to kill 9 mobs because long-range veno's kept sending their pets in, which grabs agro to them, and taking my kill. Since there was only a small area with these mobs, it was unbearable. b:irritated

That's another big problem. Veno's pets automaticly grab the mob despite how far into the fight your in, and the veno gets the drops since their pet was tanking on final blow. They NEED to place measures to stop pets doing that, it's a pain. They should only agro the mob when it's their master's mob. Plus the fact veno's can (in lower levels before their low def kicks in) take two mobs at once - attack one, and have you pet save you another one in the meantime.
b:angry

They should make it so once a mob is either a) having a spell cast on it (so people with spells that have long casting time can still get their mob) or b) has damage being put on it full stop it should become untouchable by anyone else (apart from squad members of course!)

No, I'm not compleatly saying veno's suck. I myself love the veno class. But there NEEDS to be changes...

I agree, in fact I'm a veno myself but your point is very valid. But sometimes I've started to attack a monster my pet lags behind me so it goes over to monster and somebody has started attacking it while i was casting... then they get angry when they didn't see my pet near the monster hitting it. I don't really find KS annoying cause it happens a lot except when there is a limited number/area of monsters and they go around to the same monster and just take it from you. Not naming classes because that isn't my type of thing...

Lyemme - Sanctuary

I have to agree that more often than not, I will be in the process of attacking to only have to use the delayed (prolly due to turn based attacking) follow command to call off my pet.
I would like to see a monster "claiming" system for PVE servers that would eliminate ks'ing all together. If the monster is being attacked no one else can attack unless they are in your squad.

jamser

In my experience intentional kill stealing rarely happens.

Usually a tank/meleer and a range/caster player will go for a mob at roughly the same time. The range type player will charge up a powerful shot or spell (which takes around 3-4 secs). During this time the melee player will be running towards the mob, and may get there before the range type hits.

In this situation who KS? When both players targeted the mob it was free, but a lot of meleers will call the ranger a KS, and vica versa. The solution is to stop thinking that every1 is against you. it is almost always an accident, so either group up, or just carry on and go for another mob. It may be difficult for the meleer to see the ranger since often the range player will be out of view and accuse the ranger of kill stealing, even if the ranger has targetted first.

Playing as an archer atm, I see a lot of meleers go for the mob that Im charging up an attack for, but if I see a meleers get there first, or closer to the mob clearly going for it, I hit the escape key. It isnt hard, just takes a bit of understanding and consideration.

To recap, meleers, most rangers arent trying to kill steal. Maybe you were going for a mob that they were charging an attack up for, and you didnt see them because they were perhaps behind you. If you flame straight away, they may then try to KS. Be polite, and most of the time they will too.

Rangers, if you see a meleer going for a mob, hit the escape key and find another.

I understand that in crowded areas it can be difficult for meleers to get a kill, since a ranger not charging can attack first due to range, but this isn't kill stealing, because usually you have both clicked to attack the mob at the same time. A solution is to stay around spawn points, that way your close to a mob so can easilly get in to attack. Or if you're really struggling then join a squad

Loxin - Lost City

how about a compromise that leave both groups unhappy?
Exp Split?

like if not in a Team.
that experiecne is divided between the killers?

Hildeborg - Heavens Tear

Keep a list of glass cannons that KSed you. Then when they'll be whining for help doing their culti or FBs, give them the F-U words.

medey

i have spent a few dollars on this game only because it is a very fun game that really keeps your attention.however,just because of people that have stolen kills from me is edging me to quit.i was wondering if there was any way that if you are the first person to attack an enemy that no matter what you would recieve the experience from that kill,however i understand that that may cause people to just run around and hit a bunch of enemies in order to get the experience,so although u get the first hit you must continue the attack in order to keep that kill.but in the case of an extremely high level person that may kill the enemy in one hit,hhmm,not really sure there.perhaps i suppose that beings you got the first hit and then the high level person killed it in one hit it will still give you the kill.well just a thought.back to the previous statement that i made,i am serious about quiting the game if there is not some sort of solution made to rectify this situation. thank you for your time,sincerely mark

Hitakitsune - Heavens Tear

I've looked into this as I play and from what I've seen, there is no REAL kill stealing. I've watched my quest tracker while doing "kill # of X mob" quests in busy areas and when I get the first hit, I ALWAYS get credit for the kill while if I hit second (or later) I NEVER get credit for the kill. I've also seen that first hit always gets first call on drops. This also seems to hold true for automatic pick up quest drops. The ONLY time I haven't gotten credit for a first hit is when a rogue Veno comes running by and tames the monster I'm fighting. As for exp/sp gain, it seems to be divided by amount of damage done (like if you did 30% of the damage then you get 30% of the exp/sp).

Adriazirma - Sanctuary

I can't understand... from the November 2008 when I did notice it for the first time it always applied - first touch takes credit (quest count, loot protection for some time). No out-damage, I've never seen this really. Exp sharing by contribution? Ok, that's fair when I accidentally shot to something I still want my part to be rewarded when I see that it's gonna be their kill. Exp is not the problem, quest is the problem and you just need to be the first!

Of course blademasters still have harder task to be there first, but I never shoot when I see someone running to a mob, or I try to cancel channeling. Sometimes (sh)it happens.

I still can't understand how different beliefs around kill stealing are presented here. Is it really the same on all servers? I think so (never tried all of them). First touch always worked for me. And it's a good system.

chris67

Isn't there a rule against stealing a mob tame?

SinopaTokala - Sanctuary

Trianos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

in my experience, the player who does the most damage, regardless of who hit first, gets the credit toward the kill quest and gets to pick up the loot...but the exp+sp are distributed in proportion to the damage amounts!

That has been my experience as well.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Blessing - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They need to add a "tagging" system.

First person to "tag" them gets the exp/loot from the mob unless the mob gets reseted. Anybody outside of the "tagger's" squad gets nothing.

By tagging, I mean doing any amount of damage to the monster.

Than you would have low levels running around "tagging everything" and laughing as higher levels could not grind....