Pulling a monster - guide

KoudelkaMorg - Heavens Tear

I'm sick of doing fb39 and getting called a noob for not pulling trioc. Glad its not just my imagination that you can't without bringing the adds. I was explaining this to my party last night in fb59 (unwined) and they weren't very understanding.

Yes, I know how to lure. I've been doing it since day one. If I tell you that we should pull the adds for a particular boss rather than the boss first it might be a good idea to take it on faith. Especially when our cleric has a death wish and runs ahead of the party attacking everything they can.

tabemono

Hi all,

If a mishap happened during the pull process with adds, is it possible to let the pet die, and you stand far away (out of agro range) so that the mobs will not be chasing after you? Or elite mobs are programmed to chase down the pet + owner even though the owner is out of their range?

here's a scenario:

1. recon complete, stand far away from designated mobs.
2. send pet in
3. pet pulls adds
4. stop pet and let pet die/ or you die with the pet to stop the mob from comng back to the team
5. mob resets.

Is it possible?

Brael - Dreamweaver

KoudelkaMorg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm sick of doing fb39 and getting called a noob for not pulling trioc. Glad its not just my imagination that you can't without bringing the adds. I was explaining this to my party last night in fb59 (unwined) and they weren't very understanding.

Yes, I know how to lure. I've been doing it since day one. If I tell you that we should pull the adds for a particular boss rather than the boss first it might be a good idea to take it on faith. Especially when our cleric has a death wish and runs ahead of the party attacking everything they can.

I never once ran into this problem. Unless you mean pulling him without first grabbing his guards, that I never tried.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

tabemono wrote: »

2. send pet in
3. pet pulls adds

Ok, this should only happen two ways:
Either your pet has the reflect skill, or you ORDER your pet to attack more than one mob. (I'm ignoring, for the moment, boss guards who sometimes have their own rules about what they attack)

So there's the first thing - don't do it.

But yes, every monster has their own range at which they will give up chasing you, go yellow and return to whence they came.

In the case of some monsters, however, this range is vast. (I had jewels chase me from his rock all the way up to brimstone)

All you can do is rely on experience (or trust pwdatabase) as to what the range is.
As a general rule, if your pet hits it - then you've pulled it.


If, however, you are talking about a pile of monsters hitting your pet - then that's perfectly normal. They give up when the pet unsummons and that's sort of the whole point of pulling with a pet.

Edit: Pulling trioc first? You know, I've never tried that either. I always pulled the guards first, starting in FB19 and carrying on. The first time I did otherwise was the dragon inside 59. I never even thought about why, before. (Well, partly because pulling zimo rather than running up and attacking his is a good way to die)

tabemono

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok, this should only happen ....
In the case of some monsters, however, this range is vast. (I had jewels chase me from his rock all the way up to brimstone)

All you can do is rely on experience (or trust pwdatabase) as to what the range is.
As a general rule, if your pet hits it - then you've pulled it.

Thanks for your clarifications. Yes, I had the experience of elite wolves from the Den chasing me all the way to wellspring village border.
b:chuckle

I think the information should help a lot. Thanks b:victory

Lady_marta - Dreamweaver

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:laughWhat will they think of next?

I saw a Veno using a bow. THAT is what they'll think of next. b:shocked

Vinat - Sanctuary

step 4 is flawed in that a lot of mobs and bosses are kiters, distance hitters. so if you stay in the same spot which is just within range for your pet to reach, and then you re-summon, you send your pet in, and the mob or boss moves backwards, back into the group of everything else, and you have a party wipe.

what you should do is send pet, use bramble hood, run backwards a bit more, then re-summon.

but actually in most of these cases, you should be with a party and not alone, so it's the job of either another veno (and their pet) or a barb (or even a bm sometimes) to catch the mob before you get hit.

for bosses like stygean in 79, and mobs like archers in tt 1-x, standing still, not running before a re-summon, is a noob move and the strategy of a fail veno.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

for bosses like stygean in 79, and mobs like archers in tt 1-x, standing still, not running before a re-summon, is a noob move and the strategy of a fail veno.

Or that of a HA veno that can the hits without a problem.....

Killerinca - Harshlands

Really Helpfull Guide !!

all these guides here in the pwi forum, how about,
Making a Book? b:pleased

thegoldendarkness

Great guide!!b:victory
This should be stickied!!
A lot of venos (such as myself) would find this really useful.

I'm gonna go practice now. b:laugh

Thanks again b:thanks

tweakz

thegoldendarkness wrote: »

Great guide!!b:victory
This should be stickied!!
A lot of venos (such as myself) would find this really useful.

I'm gonna go practice now. b:laugh

Thanks again b:thanks

It is a nice guide, but not worthy of a sticky. I've seen a better guide with comical illustrations. It also lacks depth like debuff luring, luring pet's strengths and weakness's (ranged vs fast vs hardy), Tame Beast, Genie Luring, bate and snatch, switching roles, etc. The basics in this guide I think most classes know and teach venos already.

Maxxxxxxxxx - Heavens Tear

I came across a situation in the swamp on my veno alt, where the mobs i wanted to lure were within range to send my kowlin out, but further than the normal range you can lure from. To make it worse there were also different mobs in front of them. Normally this would mean 'try somewhere else', but after a bit of messing around, i found a way of pulling mobs at the maximum range of the kowlin, which is longer than most other pets, but i wouldnt recommend it until you can do the 'normal' lure without thinking.

1. Make sure your pet is set to manual and send it out as normal to attack the target mob, even if it is outside the normal range that will bring the mob running.

2. Instead of stowing your pet as in a normal lure, hit the follow button to make it run back towards you. The target mob will follow, and more than likely a few of his friends as well.

3. Once the target mob is inside the normal luring range, then stow it and bring out your tank. If u got it right, the target mob keeps coming, and all its friends turn yellow and run back.

It takes practice but works every time for me now. The kowlin can be a bit squishy for this, but i equipped mine with 'tough', which i activate just before i send him out, and he can quite happily run through mobs now.

If i'm using the same pet to both lure and tank, e.g. shaodu or armoured bear, i always hit follow instead of stowing. This means that if only one mob follows, then agro is kept on my pet and not transferred to me. If more than one mob follows, i just stow and retrieve, turning it into a normal lure.

I hope you find this useful,

Maxxxxxxxxx (75), Vecora (80), Maninex (76)

Aquilonian - Dreamweaver

did someone add "dont run like a freaking maniac away from the tank after you pull a boss"?

So many venos do this, even after I ask them to "please stand your ground I will catch him before he can hit you". They run like hell and then I have to chase the boss. Its so bad its to the point where I feel like a goalie during a penalty shot. Trying to guess which direction the crazy veno is going to go, and run that way to catch the bosses in mid stride. Its like trying to catch freaking Deon Sanders.

So for those that dont know this, please dont run, your tank WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO GET HIT. Dont be afraid, f you want cover your eyes with your hands. Once your tank makes contact you can run anywhere you want. If you want to run, and you cant help yourself, run straight back.

Sorry guys, its just a pet peeve of mine b:angry

Maxxxxxxxxx - Heavens Tear

wrote:

So for those that dont know this, please dont run, your tank WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO GET HIT.

Speaking as both a barb and a veno, i would be most unhappy if i were tanking and the veno DIDN'T run like hell when pulling archer mobs..... as long as they run straight back. And if the veno is really switched-on, as they run back, they can change direction to guide the mob / boss onto the tank.



Maxxxxxxxxx (75), Vecora (80), Maninex (76)

tweakz

Aquilonian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So for those that dont know this, please dont run, your tank WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO GET HIT. Dont be afraid, f you want cover your eyes with your hands. Once your tank makes contact you can run anywhere you want. If you want to run, and you cant help yourself, run straight back.

Sorry guys, its just a pet peeve of mine b:angry

You don't always have control. There are lag issues, then there are veno hating barbs that like to pretend there's lag issues, then there's communication issues. Aside from a small amount of bosses like Wurlord, I've learned to catch for myself. With Wurlord, there's bramblehood, and Feral Concentration. I've actually used both because a barb was too slow once.

Aquilonian - Dreamweaver

Maxxxxxxxxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Speaking as both a barb and a veno, i would be most unhappy if i were tanking and the veno DIDN'T run like hell when pulling archer mobs..... as long as they run straight back. And if the veno is really switched-on, as they run back, they can change direction to guide the mob / boss onto the tank.



Maxxxxxxxxx (75), Vecora (80), Maninex (76)

You are correct. This is great.

I simply ask them not to move cause its the easiest thing possible. You cant mess that up. I used to ask them to run "straight back" and they ran back and to one side, or just ran wildly. It was really hit-and-miss with that.

What I bolded in Maxxxx's post is the best thing to do, but for whatever reason it could be too hard to do, cause I can only recollect one veno named Frances who was able to do it correctly...That guy was pretty good actually.

tweakz wrote: »

You don't always have control. There are lag issues, then there are veno hating barbs that like to pretend there's lag issues, then there's communication issues. Aside from a small amount of bosses like Wurlord, I've learned to catch for myself. With Wurlord, there's bramblehood, and Feral Concentration. I've actually used both because a barb was too slow once.

EDIT: @ Treakz: I didnt think of that when I posted. hmmmmm...I can see how that could cause confusion. This was an interesting thread.

Sevas - Heavens Tear

If they're luring a boss like Polearm in 69 or Wurlord in TT2-# a smart veno puts on bramble hood, just in case. The reason why we run so far away is to put a lot of distance between us and the boss so that we have time to pull out our pet, just in case. This also works if you're soloing and pulling to yourself. Though I must say, using hood + apoth def. pots can really cripple the damage you take, by a lot. I use it in TT when I have to tank a boss while summoning my pet.

90% of the time, it's the BM that catches my pull over a barb. I have stopped in the perfect spot so that the boss is only like two feet from the barb and the barb ran in a circle, by which time the BB cleric had taken 2-3 hits. The BM and I fought for agro to save the cleric. Barbs are slackers nowadays.

No offense because there are some good barbs out there, but good barbs are like good clerics, few and far between. I like to fight for agro rights and if a barb can hold agro from me and my friends (we compete with each other for agro), he's done a really good job.

If you need practice on pulling mobs, go to a noob area and practice with mobs you can kill in 1-2 hits or stand at max distance to resummon your pet quickly. I watched how my friends did pulling and eventually perfected it (once I learned I could manually control my pet on defend/manual settings). Whatever floats your boat. With genies out and about now, the Zeals (red ones) have a pull skill and I see a lot players with them and pulling for me. Sometimes I ask for a Zeal to pull for me if I'm the one tanking the instance...

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Aquilonian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

did someone add "dont run like a freaking maniac away from the tank after you pull a boss"?

I'd like to qualify that, slightly.

You should run behind the tank - but not very far. You want to be positioned so that the monster ends up between you and the tank, as close to the tank as possible. This is especially important for monsters (and bosses such as fushma) which like to kite - you want them to run into the bit of dungeon you've already cleared, not into more piles of monsters.

If you run too far, then a half-decent barb will still grab aggro on it as it runs past. But they might miss, and then your only real option is to take a hit on yourself as you either stand and wait, or (better) bring it back to the barb.


And barbs? Stand slightly in front of the veno when they send out your pet. Signals that you know what is going on.

No comic funnies, but:
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Venomancer_Luring

Waterfal - Sanctuary

I always try to make sure the mob gets as close as possible to the barb, or who ever is tanking. I run back straight only a few steps away from the barb.

also when I grab agro, it's send pet or run in circles around a bm or barb with the mob following me. no running away for me, can work out pretty bad.

Had some clerics running away from squad when they grabbed agro... using holy path to stay ahead.
kind of hard for fellow squad members to get the cleric and mob back that way >_>

tweakz

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And barbs? Stand slightly in front of the veno when they send out your pet. Signals that you know what is going on.

I can't send their pet. =P

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

I can't send their pet. =P

Heh. Well yes, if the 'halt' button worked on barbs, life would be lovely

But standing in front of the veno (not in front of the pet) when the veno's pet goes running off is a good way to show "Yes, I'm awake and ready to catch"

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Heh. Well yes, if the 'halt' button worked on barbs, life would be lovely

But standing in front of the veno (not in front of the pet) when the veno's pet goes running off is a good way to show "Yes, I'm awake and ready to catch"

I prefer:

Veno: Ready to catch <put name of barb here>?
Barb: Yes

Much safer. I really do not want a barb to be moving when I am luring, since sometimes I have to move to get a better angle for whatever reason, like luring up a ramp.

And no answer, no lure. I want him paying attention, not just moving around.

tweakz

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I prefer:

Veno: Ready to catch <put name of barb here>?
Barb: Yes

Much safer.

Barbs are too slow to respond for me. Must be a pain typing with paws.

xxxdsmer

purty nice guide

i'm a lil sauced at the moment so it may have been said, if so disregard.

it should probably be said in there to be sure that the pet goes in with either an actual attack skill (flesh ream, bash, elemental bash) or to ensure that there is no attack skill on auto (yellow box around the petskills) so the pet just does a normal attack thus damaging the mob being pulled and getting the desired effect of the mob coming for us.

a skill like slow or pierce dosent actually damage the mob and get it running for us (reliably anyway), we've gotta damage the mob to get it to want to come after us (reliably) so i always be sure on that first hit my pet's actually going to attack the mob instead of impose a status/debuff

tigerscott

Not sure if mentioned or not...

There is another safe way to pull. Use Tame!..

What ya do is set your pet out in front of you tween you and the mob. Put it on manual and halt.

Cast tame on the mob you wish to pull and spin your camera around and click on the ground to run backwards soon as your done casting tame.

Once the skill fires you'll start running and when the mob gets close to your pet hit attack!.. If you time it right you can push running mobs back towards your party. This can also be done with a barb the same way...

It uses more mana but your pet is always in play then..

tweakz

tigerscott wrote: »

Not sure if mentioned or not...

Included among others.

There is another safe way to pull. Use Tame!..

Tried it on Stygean yet? b:chuckle (or any phys ranged mob). You can Bramble Hood -> Tame Beast.

What ya do is set your pet out in front of you tween you and the mob. Put it on manual and halt.

Not necessary, just manual mode on follow is fine.

Cast tame on the mob you wish to pull and spin your camera around and click on the ground to run backwards soon as your done casting tame.

Over complicated: Press tame, then hold S and send pet to atk when appropriate.

RaininFire - Sanctuary

Aquilonian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

did someone add "dont run like a freaking maniac away from the tank after you pull a boss"?

So many venos do this, even after I ask them to "please stand your ground I will catch him before he can hit you". They run like hell and then I have to chase the boss. Its so bad its to the point where I feel like a goalie during a penalty shot. Trying to guess which direction the crazy veno is going to go, and run that way to catch the bosses in mid stride. Its like trying to catch freaking Deon Sanders.

So for those that dont know this, please dont run, your tank WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO GET HIT. Dont be afraid, f you want cover your eyes with your hands. Once your tank makes contact you can run anywhere you want. If you want to run, and you cant help yourself, run straight back.

Sorry guys, its just a pet peeve of mine b:angry

A good veno will take the time to learn how to pull the mob
A good barb will take the time to learn how to catch it

either use assist attack to target the same mob as the veno when she asks if your ready or hit the tab button when you see its getting close
seems easy enough to me (maybe they made the tab button bigger with paws in mind )

once you have the boss/mob on target all you should be concerned with is hitting the darn thing not which way the veno went

Maxxxxxxxxx - Heavens Tear

Just another little one i've come across for when ur barb has the occasional 'lag issue' ......

if i'm on my veno and another veno is luring, i'll stand a short distance behind the barb with my cactopod out and default pet skill deselected.
As soon as the mob/boss reaches the barb, i'll send the pet in ... if the barb (heaven forbid) should miss for whatever reason, the cactopods ranged attack stops the mob dead in its tracks, so saving the luring veno and giving the barb a second bite at the cherry... and still allows ranged mobs to be turned.

have tried it in the 69, 79, brim and eden, and it works every time b:pleased