Question about security

matthew
matthew Posts: 135 Arc User
edited January 2010 in Chronicles
Multiclient and jump **** modifications destroy the game and community. People are upset on PW-MY for GM's lifting bans against top players caught abusing this. Players have abused the jump **** and multiclient from early on in the games life in PW-MY to farm lots of gold equipment and level fast, and it isn't fair to the rest of the community.

GM's, I'm hoping you have an autoban, or better security system with the latest fixes set up for these modifications, and I'm hoping justice will be swift and final about removing people that find ways around it.

If we aren't allowed to discuss this, then I am sorry, but I would like to hear what measures you have taken or will take to confront this.
Post edited by matthew on
«13

Comments

  • ren
    ren Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    There's no problem with multiclienting/one person on multiple pcs. cry more =/
    And multiclienting isn't necessarily modification, there's ways to do it without modifying the files.

    Jump ****'s not a terribly big deal, I don't think a *permban* for first offense would be reasonable considering it has little practical use.
    Btw, there's supposedly a speed **** too.
    I hope the gms can make jumping and speed serverside to prevent epic Rohan or RF-style failure.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Official PWI irc: (mirc command, opens in a new window and won't interfere with any servers you're already on) /server -m irc.deltaanime.net -j #pwint
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ren wrote: »
    Jump ****'s not a terribly big deal, I don't think a *permban* for first offense would be reasonable considering it has little practical use.

    :eek: Think again. Jump **** allows players to reach bosses without fighting mobs or using wines.

    Immortals used that a lot in FB79 to farm a famous ring : enter the dungeon, jump all you way up to LinYung's room. Kill the bosses. Repeat as desired.

    No need to buy/farm mats for the wines, no time lost fighting the remaining mobs. A clear path to the boss.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • matthew
    matthew Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ren wrote: »
    There's no problem with multiclienting/one person on multiple pcs. cry more =/
    And multiclienting isn't necessarily modification, there's ways to do it without modifying the files.

    Jump ****'s not a terribly big deal, I don't think a *permban* for first offense would be reasonable considering it has little practical use.
    Btw, there's supposedly a speed **** too.
    I hope the gms can make jumping and speed serverside to prevent epic Rohan or RF-style failure.

    You can't fully eradicate multiclienting, but you can stop every tom, ****, and harry from modding the client to run multiple instances, which IS a problem, is against the TOS, and weakens the community. "Cry more", wow, what an intelligent answer, like the rest of your post.

    Jump **** is not a big deal and has little practical use? Ok, well go read PW-MY forums see how big a deal it is. Jump **** has many practical uses.
  • danubus37
    danubus37 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Anyone found haking should be perma banned off the bat. No 2nd chances. People who cheat once are more than likely to cheat again.
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    DoubleBoxing is and should remain legal. Double boxing = using more than one computer to play at the same time from the same IP. If they forbid it, then players playing from schools, or couple playing from the same house could not play, they all use the same IP from a router.

    Multiclienting is opening more than one instance of the game with one computer. That is theorically forbidden on the MY-EN server. There was no words about this here yet. And the ToS don't make mention of it so far.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • ren
    ren Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    matthew wrote: »
    You can't fully eradicate multiclienting, but you can stop every tom, ****, and harry from modding the client to run multiple instances, which IS a problem, is against the TOS, and weakens the community. "Cry more", wow, what an intelligent answer, like the rest of your post.

    Jump **** is not a big deal and has little practical use? Ok, well go read PW-MY forums see how big a deal it is. Jump **** has many practical uses.

    You can run multiple instances on one pc if you got a mac and BootCamp installed I'd imagine...
    I know with L2 you could use multiple windows accounts running at once, one client per user.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Official PWI irc: (mirc command, opens in a new window and won't interfere with any servers you're already on) /server -m irc.deltaanime.net -j #pwint
  • tofu
    tofu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    danubus37 wrote: »
    Anyone found haking should be perma banned off the bat. No 2nd chances. People who cheat once are more than likely to cheat again.

    +1 :D
    couldn't have said it any better
  • rufus
    rufus Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    agreed about permanent ban for first hacking offense and no second chances.

    playing the game with multiple computers i think is fine. playing multiple clients on the same pc i think isn't fine.
  • xarfox
    xarfox Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Dual boxing is not so much of an issue. However, when someone is botting with multiple clients, then Houstin we have a problem.

    With regard to hacks and exploits, anytime you ever see someone, report them. Our team will do the very best we can to make sure that users who abuse our service are banned and stay banned.

    Edit: I have changed the above text in order clear up any confusion. Running more than one client on a single machine is not acceptable. Running multiple clients across multiple machines is acceptable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kyleh
    kyleh Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Ok I am a complete noob so go easy on me but people that play on multiple pc's, does that mean there are bots? I'm assuming it's one person.
  • ren
    ren Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    kyleh wrote: »
    Ok I am a complete noob so go easy on me but people that play on multiple pc's, does that mean there are bots? I'm assuming it's one person.
    a bot is a character being controlled by a macro program, or AI program.

    one person playing multiple characters (to buff himself with a priest on autofollow, for example) is not botting.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Official PWI irc: (mirc command, opens in a new window and won't interfere with any servers you're already on) /server -m irc.deltaanime.net -j #pwint
  • blaze
    blaze Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Oh god I love you Xarfox D:
    Dual clients ftw~~

    (never understood why dual boxing was allowed in some games, but multi clients weren't..... I'd rather buy a good comp which can handle multiple clients than buy 2 old comps just so I can dual box >_>)

    BTW appearently PW PH has a new bot/client modification detection software o.o
    Pretty much all the botters+jump/zoom hackers got banned lol, maybe you should get something similar, since jump hacks pretty much suck... you can farm the lvl 99 golden heavy armor/ dual hammers and spear without any problems :< (dont ask me why I know about this D: )
  • blackmoon
    blackmoon Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    I have to agree with blaze , i also do not see what is so wrong with it :p
  • tofu
    tofu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    eh im not getting it here ~_~
    whats Multi-clienting and dual boxing!?!
  • wabbitt
    wabbitt Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    You can run 2 clients on 1 pc by using separate user accounts without modifying the client.
    Im interested why people see running 2 clients from 1 pc an issue and dual boxing as OK. Maybe Im missing something, but I dont see the difference. Either way you have 2 characters in the game that can quest, but, heal one another and trade items.

    If anything 2 boxing gives you more advantage since you can see both screens and comand both characters art the same time.

    I guess Im lucky in that I held onto my old PC when I upgraded recently, so I have them both plugged into the router and both at arms length so I can 2 box very easily, and I did so a lot on PW-MY. Very handy to have a level high'70's WF to run you through most of those boss quests you get in your 50's.
  • tofu
    tofu Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ahh i c, thanks wabbit :D
    but multi clienting sounds like a huge pain to be worth while... switch accounts 24/7, only being able to view 1 person at a time =.=
  • kelo
    kelo Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Multi-clienting: opening 2 (or more) game clients on the same computer.

    Multi-boxing: opening 1 game client on 2 (or more) different computers.

    Both can allow someone to play 2 characters at the same time. Personnally, I don't think it is disturbing, since controling 2 characters at the same time means you won't control them as well as only one. On MY-EN, one of my friends sometimes does multi-boxing to get his cleric to support his blademaster when helping guildies in boss fights. He puts cleric on "follow", or just position it in the sky nearby. Then he goes on to fight the boss with the blademaster, pressing the cleric's healing button on the other keyboard when needed.

    Things like that don't affect the balance of the game IMO. Botting/hacking does. So I agree, that no chance should be given if someone is actually found to be botting/hacking. Giving chances to these ruins the other players' game experience. I do think that MY-EN (and many online game companies, in fact) is way too soft about these matters.

    Please don't do that mistake ^^ It has been done so many times in many different games ^^;


    EDIT: rofl I edited so many times before posting that I'm 15 mins late now xD To answer the last comment: I guess someone using a dual-monitor configuration could multi-client quite well (better than someone alt-tabbing xD )
    ~ Through the darkest of night, we shall shine brightly, revealing the path to both friendship and glory ~
    Kelovar, Radiance executor
  • soukyuu
    soukyuu Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    wabbitt wrote: »
    Im interested why people see running 2 clients from 1 pc an issue and dual boxing as OK.
    One reason might be that running 2 clients on 1 PC definitely means it's 1 person controlling both chars, in some games this causes class imbalance, people stop to play support characters as their main cause everyone has a slave, which is sad imho. That's why i'm against multiclienting. But i don't see that happening in PW since support chars can solo too, unlike support priests in RO for example

    Prohibiting dualboxing would **** all people who want to play together behind a router - they will have the same external IP and since dualboxing can be only prevented by allowing only 1 connection from the same IP ...
    kelo wrote: »
    To answer the last comment: I guess someone using a dual-monitor configuration could multi-client quite well (better than someone alt-tabbing xD )
    I tried doing that and it doesn't work. The GPU kinda seems to be only able to render in 3d mode on 1 screen only, the other one simply goes black if you start a 3d accelerated app on it (or just the window of that app)
    PW has been endless frustration for me #2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ren
    ren Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    soukyuu wrote: »
    in some games this causes class imbalance, people stop to play support characters as their main cause everyone has a slave, which is sad imho.

    In some games, but not this. It's hard and annoying to heal yourself, and priests can actually pvp, so a dual box would only serve to buff your main which is no big deal at all.
    Plus it's hard to level in this game, since its quest based, unlike l2 where you can have your whole clan leech the buffer all day and night.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Official PWI irc: (mirc command, opens in a new window and won't interfere with any servers you're already on) /server -m irc.deltaanime.net -j #pwint
  • karmelia
    karmelia Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ren wrote: »
    Plus it's hard to level in this game, since its quest based, unlike l2 where you can have your whole clan leech the buffer all day and night.

    Which is why many multiclient user are also ID buyers.

    I saw 2 guys controlling each 3 high levels chars farming HH and FBs. Healing is not hard, you just put the heal bubble on the cleric. Have a second one continually spamming the same attacks, and use the third to keep aggro...

    In a way, it can give someone an advantage.
    Frankieraye said : "we can promise that we will work to improve all facets of community, engineering, and customer service to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again."


    (We are still waiting to see any improvements or changes beign implemented. More empty promises from PWI?)
  • acrimony
    acrimony Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    If you're doing everything by the book I wouldn't see the problem in you running 10 characters at the same time. If anything you're going to spend more money/put in more stuff onto the market - in a legit fashion.

    You say it gives someone an advantage - this is true, however this comes with a hefty price in real life (double, triple, whatever costs in corespondence with the number of PC's you're running, you're probably going to pay for a "good" Internet connection because you won't want your cleric to cast the heal, 25ms after your barbarian dies) so if someone's willing to pay it, I say why not?

    On the other hand... what's the point? It's an MMO - instead of "playing with yourself", go out and get 5 friends, do stuff together, have fun! :D
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    acrimony wrote: »
    If you're doing everything by the book I wouldn't see the problem in you running 10 characters at the same time. If anything you're going to spend more money/put in more stuff onto the market - in a legit fashion.

    You say it gives someone an advantage - this is true, however this comes with a hefty price in real life (double, triple, whatever costs in corespondence with the number of PC's you're running, you're probably going to pay for a "good" Internet connection because you won't want your cleric to cast the heal, 25ms after your barbarian dies) so if someone's willing to pay it, I say why not?

    On the other hand... what's the point? It's an MMO - instead of "playing with yourself", go out and get 5 friends, do stuff together, have fun! :D

    Yeah, but half the people on these boards don't have 5 friends.
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • blaze
    blaze Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Yeah, but half the people on these boards don't have 5 friends.

    XD
    Well the most common reason for multi clienting would be stalling i guess o.o
    I never bothered to stall my DQ items since I didn't want to spend all day sitting in ADC, which is why multi clienting comes in handy.
    Oh and not to forget plvling :P
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Meh. I don't use stalls. I just sell stuff to guildies, do stuff with guildies etc. etc... no need for more than one me. :)
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • embl3m
    embl3m Posts: 494 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ark wrote: »
    Meh. I don't use stalls. I just sell stuff to guildies, do stuff with guildies etc. etc... no need for more than one me. :)

    well arnt you cool
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    Yeah. My guild was pretty sad to see me leave them to go here. Oh well.

    - Best of luck, ReBorn!
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • acrimony
    acrimony Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ark wrote: »
    Yeah, but half the people on these boards don't have 5 friends.

    Aww... well I'll be your friend (for a modicum charge / week), come roll on the pve care-bear server with me! :D
  • ark
    ark Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    *ahem* I note that I'm not part of that half. ;)
    As a Guild,

    Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
    Strength in Unity,
    Order through Chaos,
    Victory united.
  • arcane
    arcane Posts: 1,084 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    xarfox wrote: »
    Multi-clienting or dual boxing is not so much of an issue. However, when someone is botting with multiple clients, then Houstin we have a problem.

    With regard to hacks and exploits, anytime you ever see someone, report them. Our team will do the very best we can to make sure that users who abuse our service are banned and stay banned.

    I live in Houston!
    I find it offensive that you would spell it wrong :O
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Doin' it my way.
  • soukyuu
    soukyuu Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited August 2008
    ren wrote: »
    In some games, but not this. It's hard and annoying to heal yourself, and priests can actually pvp, so a dual box would only serve to buff your main which is no big deal at all.
    Plus it's hard to level in this game, since its quest based, unlike l2 where you can have your whole clan leech the buffer all day and night.
    That's what i said, too.
    PW has been endless frustration for me #2
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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