So, can we lift the AH cap yet?
dregenfox
Posts: 713 Arc User
It's been months since the first gold cap thread, and the AH on Dawnglory has effectively become useless. Almost all gold is being sold via world chat, prices have risen out of control (with DoD regularly selling for 135m), and very few people even care about spend promos anymore since they are only available to pure CS'ers.
When will PWI take steps to correct this problem? Is it even a concern at all that the in-game mechanisms for trade don't even work anymore?
This gold was bought over a period of 10 days, with multiple tests at different times/amounts. The results are self-explanatory.
https://i.imgur.com/8s5WSkW.png
When will PWI take steps to correct this problem? Is it even a concern at all that the in-game mechanisms for trade don't even work anymore?
This gold was bought over a period of 10 days, with multiple tests at different times/amounts. The results are self-explanatory.
https://i.imgur.com/8s5WSkW.png
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Comments
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Question, I believe some form of regulation for gold needs to be set in place but how is raising the cap going to drop DoD prices? To my knowledge if gold was worth more in AH wouldn’t ppl still want the same amount for their dods?105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
http://mypers.pw/5/#2589580 -
Question, I believe some form of regulation for gold needs to be set in place but how is raising the cap going to drop DoD prices? To my knowledge if gold was worth more in AH wouldn’t ppl still want the same amount for their dods?
The argument people were making against the cap is that it would keep prices low, because people would see the 4m per gold in AH and think, "gee, gold is only 4m, so I guess I can sell my DoD's for 80m."
It's basically assuming people are idiots and won't bypass the AH and sell off the real gold value.0 -
The cap only exists on gold in the AH. If people are successfully selling gold for 4.5, 5, 6, or even more on WC, then why bother with the AH at all? Buy orders will stagnate forever and ever, which is what happens when gold prices go up on WC.
Really, the cap in AH just means that people trying to buy gold through it are wasting their time.0 -
and we told you 100x times raising the cap wont do any good.
Raise the cap to 8m and you can post the same picture with 7.999.999m x 6000 on the buy side
Remove the exipry timer and lower the limit to 50g what you can buy at once in AH.
Create a *sell gold in AH* promo and stop spend promos.
Remove the foils and NEVER sell the keys for idiotic 18g again.
And ofc give the rich people a real coinsink.
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and we told you 100x times raising the cap wont do any good.
Raise the cap to 8m and you can post the same picture with 7.999.999m x 6000 on the buy side
Remove the exipry timer and lower the limit to 50g what you can buy at once in AH.
Create a *sell gold in AH* promo and stop spend promos.
Remove the foils and NEVER sell the keys for idiotic 18g again.
And ofc give the rich people a real coinsink.
Removing the expiration timer won't change the fact that no one sells gold to the AH. They will still trade through World Chat.
The inflation brought in by keys have so far only been able to raise gold to ~6.5-7m at the high end. My best guess is, if they raise the cap, it would be raised to at least 99.9 million, so that they won't have to deal with it again.
The issue here is that PWI has changed, and the AH was designed during an era where there were no packs/keys/promos/etc. That is no longer true, and the AH is now outdated in terms of carrying out it's purpose.
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Rule of thumb:
Does china have this problem?
No? Good luck raising the cap.
Even if they did raise it, the next update it would be back to how it was because they forgot about it.
The only fitting image for this forum.0 -
Rule of thumb:
Does china have this problem?
No? Good luck raising the cap.
Even if they did raise it, the next update it would be back to how it was because they forgot about it.
The thing is, China did raise the coin storage limit on bags/AH to 1b, so there has to be a lot of coins floating around even in China, or they just decided to raise it for the other markets.
Since gold is around 1m in China I find it highly unlikely that there are multiple people running around with 800+ gold worth of coins in their bags.
I think it's possible that the cap might just be too hard to raise due to coding issues.0 -
No, can we please instead remove any "Foil"-Item or keys in general from the game and implement decent coin sinks like Packitems-NPC in which you can buy (overpriced) Pack items via coin (all char bound). Also, remove JoJ completely.
Those are the only reasonable fixes. If you raise the limit gold will be that limit in no-time. ATM it's nearly impossible to buy gold from AH, even with a decent strategy...but this is still not the correct solution.0 -
Raising cap will increase gold prices, not because of the idiotic argument of ppl seeing cap at 4m but because nobody can work on spend promos with coin atm. When this is again possible by having ability to buy gold, the gold prices will go up due demand increasing.
This would however make it harder for f2p community to continue playing this game as this really wouldnt increase the value of items you can farm - There really isnt much value in them no matter how much gold prices are basically.
I would increase AH cap but I would want to do some coin sinks too in order to combat the ever increasing gold prices - Put some value back to coins and economy becomes healthier.0 -
strongly disagree with taking any of these measures before fixing the problems that decreases the coins value to ****.
5 min at a JoJ spot, around 30 bots.
That makes no sense.
Raise AH value, in 3 weeks you'll have gold capped at 10m.
(all screenshots taken 11/13/2017, 1:30 pm)
Easy to speculate theres 5-10x more of these flying around and farming over 150m every hour.
Increase coin sinks, fix the coin flow.
(Keys, JoJ)
And reestablish a real economy, THEN increase AH cap if needed.0 -
I find it odd that people think raising the cap to 10 million will cause the price to go up to 10 million. There is no cap on WC gold prices, and yet when I advertise selling gold at 10 million, even with a free homestead envelope for gold transfer, no one is willing to buy it.
Could it be that if gold price was uncapped, it would settle at a fair market price that is acceptable for the majority of sellers and buyers? This is a possible hypothesis, but since there aren't that many examples or studies of how prices behave when they are uncapped in a free market we have no way of knowing for sure.0 -
I can tell you why. It will be easy to just buy all the gold and put it back in for a higher price at the cap. Its not possible with wc gold.
Also the picture you posted shows another thing that is wrong in this game. You are holding almost 700gold in your account and yet you compain you want to buy more. This is the direct result of endless spend promo's from pwi side. People hording gold in huge amounts just to take advantage of spend promo's. Spend promo's need to be reduced drasticaly in frequency and value.0 -
Gold bids expiring is best coin sink PWI have right now LOL.
Anyway if you increase the cap people will buy at cap and again we will have a clogged system. PWI need to lower the amount of coins you have in bag to 500m maybe back to 200m. 20 people buying 250 gold at one time clogs the system. Then people complain about gold bids expiring. So reducing the amount any 1 person can bid for is the answer.
If you raise the cap to 7.999.900 you get a clogged system and people sell gold in wc for 9 to 10m. It'll just be everything all over again. Reduce the amount of coin people can carry in their bags.0 -
I hope they dont i first hand seen how it was abused where one person on the server bought all of it and had monopoly on it0
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I can tell you why. It will be easy to just buy all the gold and put it back in for a higher price at the cap. Its not possible with wc gold.
Also the picture you posted shows another thing that is wrong in this game. You are holding almost 700gold in your account and yet you compain you want to buy more. This is the direct result of endless spend promo's from pwi side. People hording gold in huge amounts just to take advantage of spend promo's. Spend promo's need to be reduced drasticaly in frequency and value.
Actually, previous to this I usually spent all that gold to sell/open packs for spend promos and dump all the DoD/DoT into the market to sell at rock bottom 70-80m prices, then repeat. Gold is way too precious now to spend on packs for trivial spend promos, and there's no real reason to sell something fast for a quick profit.
Nowadays I just let DoD/DoT sit in my stores for 132-135m, eventually someone buys them, but I don't have any need for coin so if it takes a couple weeks, all the better (I'm in no rush). So no real reason for me to unload my stock - people aren't spending, so DoT/DoD will only go higher.
I actually had more gold than that stocked up but spent a bit more than half of it for those sparkle packs. Guess what though? That promo didn't do much to change DoD prices at all. Only thing that will help is to get people to start spending and buying Sochi Packs.0 -
You know, before gold got to 4m+, the AH worked just fine. Everyone saying 'raise the cap, and it'll just hit it right away' is stupid.
Maybe we should just ask Wanmei to completely remove the gold trading option from AH. That would be a lot better.0 -
If you up the AH limit then please set it to a super high number like 50 or 100mil. Let the free market decide what the price of gold will be. We won't hit that cap for years or ever, depending on updates.
5 years ago people laughed at gold hitting 1mil. At that time gold price had no real cap as the max was 4x higher than its trading price. Let's go back to that system. If you have coins and someone wants to sell their gold then let them do it and let PWI get their cut.
More gold being bought and sold through AH = bigger coin sink. If the same gold is bought and sold multiple times then a lot more coins will be drained from the economy. Spend promos are fine as is IF people can get gold through the AH.0 -
@geochris But this would only be true if there would be no Items to be bought from gold that would produce an influx in coin. Setting the limit to 10m will push goldprices to 10m, if there are potential spend promos in which even buying gold for 10m each would let you walk off with a profit compared to no promo and that is the biggest issue here.
If they remove foils from the game, Let keys always sit at max 30G per 100 and regular packs for max 35g per 100 then they can eliminate the potential of gaining enough coins to rebuy more gold when gold is around 6-8m in AH. They want people to charge for their gold but in truth it's mostly merchants buying and reselling Gold to get more coins to get even more gold, rinse and repeat. You need to take that option away from those greedy fools at all. The major people responsible for the ill-state of the economy are not the heaviest Cashers, no, not at all. It's those greedy guys that wanna turn 1k gold into 2k gold over the course of days, you get the point. To be a merchant always requires you to buy low and to sell for a profit..but the margins PWE allows them to have are insane and harmful for anyone. Literally Anyone. PWE and it's customers alike.
I always hated a little on merchants cause just like in RL, they are the root of literally every single problem in this world. Farmers infuse the market with their farmings, they create stuff. Casher infuse the market with their gold/pack items. Merchants don't create anything. They just shift capital from one place to another while making a profit out of fools/impatient people. We don't need them. @kalystconquerer#0876 You better eliminate all possibilities of merching in this game if you wanna sustain it for long. Sure, some greedy people will leave but new ones will join once the economy has been stabilized.
If anyone wasn't so god damn greedy then we would not have these issues in the first place and if PWE would make cashing actually worthwhile (like upping the amount of gold you get per USD by at least 3x the current value) then we also wouldn't have these issues. If you'd actually get 300 gold for 100 USD instead of just 100G..this alone would fix most issues and balance out the coin/gold ratio perfectly well and guess what? People would even charge more than before..and other people would have the incentive to charge, despite not having charged before cause it would actually be worthwhile. Skip useless Promos all together and make gold more accessible. That's another very easy fix. But ofc..if they did that, raise the pack prices by at least 3x their current prices as well else you got too many coins due to massive token/LC spam.0 -
Lol...the only thing real merchants did was move product from rich whales into the hands of the regular people, or make items more accessible to people with different types of needs.
If you think merchanting in this game is buying a DoD for 110m and selling it for 120m, or opening a pack and selling its contents in your catshop, then you don't know wtf you're talking about.
Also you do realize that you're asking PWI to run a 200% bonus Zen charge promotion, right?0 -
@dregenfox Well, unfortunately thats only the tip of the iceberg. I know people actively pm-ing people that are selling items, undercutting themselves to get the cheapest price possible. That's insane. Merchanting in it's core is buying stuff and selling it for a higher price to make a profit or so to speak, make a profit in general. If people's strategy is (and it obviously has been) to buy keys from gold in WC, to use them cause the chances of getting foils/items are insanely high and then to resell the stuff they get to make a profit, yeah thats merchanting at it's core.
Also, giving people 3x the gold for their money while excluding packs/gamble items (making them 3x as expensive) harms no one. It makes the game more accessible for anyone and even casual players can get gears/refine. Gold in PWI is WAY overpriced compared to other games. I am not talking about a promotion, I am talking about permanent. They could also just lower the price of most non-chance items but that would be bad as well, since it doesn't reduce the demand on gold, quite to opposite actually. We simply need more gold in the system. IF a heavy casher charges 1k USD and gets 3k gold...ofc he sells some in AH..cause do you really wanna make the effort of selling 3k gold via WC? People spending that money hardly have the patience for that and thats a good thing. Fast, reliable money for those who need it. That's what the AH has always been...and that option has been stripped away...cause in all due respect to impatience...when you know that you can get 8m per gold...why sell it for 4m?
Thankfully, roughly 600g per day are being sold on Dawnglory per day in AH, despite all this. In that sense, thanks to everyone charging and selling in AH!! <330 -
Well, unfortunately thats only the tip of the iceberg. I know people actively pm-ing people that are selling items, undercutting themselves to get the cheapest price possible. That's insane. Merchanting in it's core is buying stuff and selling it for a higher price to make a profit or so to speak, make a profit in general. If people's strategy is (and it obviously has been) to buy keys from gold in WC, to use them cause the chances of getting foils/items are insanely high and then to resell the stuff they get to make a profit, yeah thats merchanting at it's core.
"Nobody" is making profit opening keys at the gold prices Da usually hits during key sales - 5.5m seems to be the cap I can break even in the long run. But as you can sell the keys for more, there isnt much point opening keys short of you needing something. Like I for example opened lot of keys for the sole fact there was no WS chests on the market on Et.
Merchants actually provide stability to the market - W/o merchants who have items at hand at all times, market would be way more volatile. Merchants are the balancing factor on market, prices wont go as low as they would w/o them nor should they jump quite as high as they would w/o them. But lets blame all the bad management decisions of PWE regarding economy towards those players, I`m sure they deserve it.
Edit:
Thankfully, roughly 600g per day are being sold on Dawnglory per day in AH, despite all this. In that sense, thanks to everyone charging and selling in AH!! <33
Thats a massive problem because anybody who manages to get gold, and some will, will make 50% profit on their coin right there and then. This promotes ppl sticking more and more offers into AH completely clogging it.0 -
@saxroll yes, you are correct. That is if anyone would play their part. At least on DA..a very few select individuals have way too much coin, gold and items...if they would be less greedy and actually interested in holding stability, it would be fine. However, that is not the case. Trying to make 20k bignoted out of 10k bignotes just for the yolo of it.
I guarantee you...80% of all offers to buy gold in AH are max 10 different ppl, clogging AH with multiple alts and yeah, that is actually smart, cause if you constantly buy 2k gold for yourself, chances are you will be getting some.
BTW: Gold is at 8m during key sales on DA. Even now, 2 weeks after the sale, you are lucky if you get gold for 5.5m, 6m or higher is more likely.
I do not only blame the players, PWE could've prevented the system from being exploited in the first place, yes, because everyone knows that humans will abuse anything to get 1up on someone else. PWI gets closer and closer to real-life in terms of effed up economy. However, same goes for many things, rl can't be beaten
I'd even go as far as giving those over-coined ppl as many max geared chars as they want, if the damn coins finally vanish at least.0 -
Group A, Buy's all available Gold on server in mass with non alt's and alt's, waits a bit, sell's a bit as price start's on its way up the stairs till it hit's the max,, sell sell sell.... Rinse and repeat. This is showing how a Group of people with the lower population are controlling Gold market. This group of peeps are almost doubling there money in a very short period of time...again and again. There probally laughing all the way0
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Im going to be fair I have not commented on this yet for a number of reasons.
Im not convinced either way for this argument. As saying that I can not think of anything at the moment that would help or work. Evey one is raising fair points and its being kept in the rules so lets get some good answers and ill throw my 2 cents in when I have something.
This is an important issue!0 -
Group A, Buy's all available Gold on server in mass with non alt's and alt's, waits a bit, sell's a bit as price start's on its way up the stairs till it hit's the max,, sell sell sell.... Rinse and repeat. This is showing how a Group of people with the lower population are controlling Gold market. This group of peeps are almost doubling there money in a very short period of time...again and again. There probally laughing all the way
Dude, are you kidding? That's the absolute best way to do absolutely jack **** with your money.
While you're sitting on your 4000 gold "hoping" for it to hit 15m, I'm cashing in multiple DoD/war avatars by spending it and moving the market.
You literally can't control the supply when it's just so laughably easy for people to get more. That dude with 3000 gold is hoarding and selling for 15m per? I absolutely guarantee you someone will see the price, charge $200, and undercut him for 14m. And this will keep happening, until people stop making huge profits from just charging and selling gold (which will just happen to be very close to the "fair market price").0 -
if gold price cap gets raised, i will buy gold at the price of the new cap, till its the new price. why?`because i can. and if i can, others can too. problem will persist....0
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you didnt get my point....and why would they raise it to 100 mil
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Gold can has noting to with it. Its a non factor at all, raise gold cap to 8m what happens? New gold price very shortly will be 8m+, Packs will also cost more obviously, thus pack items cost more aswell. So what will we have after we 2x gold cap? All prices will 2x, gold will 2x, and the coin that you have in your bag value will go down 2x.0
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Raise coin drops.. that is all !0
https://youtu.be/RkkWkigYd3k
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