sanguine glyph Crush vigor capablities

mistressmuerta

I know it is going to be eons before some veno gets a lvl 10 glyph, but has anyone considered the 1-shot potential of a lvl 10 sanguine crush vigor? At lvl 10 the skill drains 100 chi. If the target has no chi the skill does damage instead for 1% of either your max hp or the targets current hp for each point of missing chi drained. Here is a scenario. You are a veno that has just chi drained the target to 0 chi. If your hp is higher than the targets and you use a lvl 10 sansquine crush vigor its going to do 1% of the targets current hp for each point of chi missing.(1% of current hp x100 = 100% hp) I have already come up with ways to ensure the veno has more max hp than the target. The skill also does this damage as a 1 tick dot meaning its going to ignore def charms,dmg reduction skills, terrain penalty, and anything else that dots do. I am currently unable to play for a bit but if any veno wants to test this out i would love to see this in action.(side note also an advocate for making targets mana bar visible the same way hp bar is.)

catgirldesu

Yes, a level 10 Sanguine Glyph Crush Vigor is very likely that is capable of "1-shoting" the target.

The only exception would be if it's coded like Soul Drain, in which the damage cannot be higher than the target's HP value -1. Though seeing as we haven't had any such skills in a long time, it's unlikely to be the case, but I wanted to throw this out there.

shopcheese

Yes. I never knew how this skill worked and got curious if the damage was magic or physical, so i started test it a few days/weeks ago and i pretty much came to the same conclusion as mentioned here, though i called it true damage rather than dot. Literally only your/their hp that matters and chi. Barb invoke? You do full dmg. Amplify have no effect, same dmg. You have lv1 weapon/or get disarmed? you still do full dmg.

Oh and fun fact, you can use buffs, even tree of protection to get higher hp than target.

At first I thought it would be super strong already at lv5/8 combined with a strong soul deg hp debuff, but testing that i found out to my dissapointment that the hp debuff isnt as high as its description, due to it having no effects on hp buffs, hp passive, and gear with +% hp.

I was doing tests against my own barb. I have yet not had a chance of using red glyphed vigor in pvp, i usually prefer blue for that.

mistressmuerta

Shopcheese I need a little clarification. Are you saying that you used soul degen first to lower thier max hp then used the red gylph to do chi damage? Or are you saying that you used soul degen and it didnt factor in hp passives buffs ect. I would also like to know if the target had 0 chi when you cast the red glyph vigor on your barb....(i called it true dmg also a few years back on the forum when absorb soul/soul burn came out) caused this huge fit on the forums so i just call it dot now, but they are pretty much the same. I also wondered if that was the case Catgirldesu. If the skill would behave like soul drain.

shopcheese

The reason why I think its different than actual dot skills like absorb soul is because its damage still affects such things as physical defense, debuffs, attackers weapons etc, while this skill acts is completely locked in damage. Well, doesnt matter what its called anyway, its unique thats for sure.

And to clarify your questions. Both. I figured if you could lower the hp first and wait out the hp debuff (only lasts 3 seconds on red glyph version), then follow up by red glyph vigor you could do a one shot without having to go all way to lv10. Having Lv5 red on both vigor and SD would leave the target at exactly 10% hp, well theoretical speaking. (assuming your hp is higher and target have 0 chi of course)
However testing this theory I found out SD worked a bit differently, it have no effects on hp buffs, passive etc. I believe at a 30% debuff (lv5 red SD) it only reduced around 22% hp with hp buff+lv5 hp passive and one piece of +5% gear. In tigerform, it was like 17%. With NW buff it will be even less, and most pvpers (r9.3 people) have two pieces of +5% rather than one. I am probably remembering the amount of buffs and numbers wrong, but you get the point.
Doing red glyph SD+vigor on an alt with no passives or buff, the HP went to exactly 10% as anticipated.
Yes my veno had the highest hp the whole duration, and my enemy was at 0 chi.

My curiousity got me. I just tested out if red glyph vigor does kill or leave hp at 1. It kills. RIP my alt.

catgirldesu

It's good to know Crush Vigor doesn't have Soul Drain's drawback! Currently playing on a potato laptop since PC has problems so I can't do any tests myself; thanks for testing it for us.

One thing I wonder is if the HP debuff is really intended to work this way (not affecting HP buffs etc.) or the developers just overlooked it. I would honestly not be surprised lol.

nene#6448

Can someone do a video of this? Wondering if its worth it for demon venos to learn the NF crush vigor or not. (Demon CV has 50% chance to give 1 spark)​​

shopcheese

As demon myself (currently) I was worried about the same thing, but I do not regret it one bit going glyphed version. You'll get used to guaranteed chi quite quickly, and the debuff becomes stronger. Even much stronger if you choose to put a blue glyph on it. If you dont want to use red or any glyphs on it at all, I feel it was still well worth it.
If anything Im more sad about the increased cooldown on lucky scarab.

mistressmuerta

Thank you this is wonderful...I thought of comboing SD with CV to ensure having more hp or just casting top if you have other saves available when u cast CV on a purged target.

shade13

nene#6448 wrote: »

Can someone do a video of this? Wondering if its worth it for demon venos to learn the NF crush vigor or not. (Demon CV has 50% chance to give 1 spark)

+ you get chi with 100% chance
+ your target loses chi at once, you don't need to hit him afterwards
+ indicates if your target has some chi left or he is totally empty
+ red glyph removes the debuff status and you don't need to worry about canceling someone's amplify
+ cooldown doesn't start if the target died
+ high killing potential

- you can't get whole spark any longer
- if your target dies in progress, skill cancels, unlike 11 demon version when casting finishes and you obtain chi (or don't ) no matter if your target is stil alive or dead.

​​

srovarie

I was testing the green gylphed Soul Degeneration (can't be healed) combined with the red gylphed Crush Vigor (chi steal or damage in case of 0 chi).
You need at least 2 silver gylphed skills to make this combo working. Silver gylphed skills don't do any damage though (like 180 k without it and 30 k with it) and the puriable DOT doesn't help much either. I think golden gylphed Blazing Barrier is also needed for the unpurgeable damage reduce. So you still have 1 free to pick choice.

As about my experience, I don't think it's worth it. You need a lot of time to get the DOTs up and change form and steal chi and use the skills. Most of the times you will get a stun or the opponent use AD or something and you can start the whole thing over again. Note that this combo also impossible to use against certain classes like sins, and draining all the enemy's chi can be difficult too.
The only real merit is that if the target health goes under 50% while sickened then the target's charm will be ticked without any effect.
Others can try it too but I think it's too casual. I rather use smaller buffs which can be used all the times. Silver gylphed attack skills are annoying too, even if you only sacrifice redstone and noxious.

mistressmuerta

You can do the 0 chi combo on any class just as easily as any class can get out of it. Its a matter of burning up thier resources first. I would also like to add this combo is not necessarily and 1 shot and go type of deal. It is just as effective to keep draining while doing other things until you are sure thier chi is at 0. This is why i really advocate for being able to see the targets chi and mana bar. As for sins if you are able to tank all thier damage, keep them on the defensive, or somehow kite then you can do it. I have a genie combination that insta 400-0's chi. The more safe method requires waiting and surviving while DD'n. If you are demon summer sprint while in fox run up to the target and use stunning blow followed up by bewitch--->chi drain--->taunt--->purge(while it is channeling) use chi siphon. That is 400 chi instant. The stunning blow isnt really needed but smart players will run while they are silenced. Just like any other combo it can be blocked by faith or AD. It is up to the player to decide when to go for the killing blow. If anyone can get a lvl 8 glyph the combo would be alot easier to pull off..Keep your damage skills dealing damage so you can keep the target around 70% max health. Then when the opportunity presents itself add CV to the end of that combo because its going to bypass. Be creative if you dnt think you can channel all that fast enough use a zooming powder.That is the one thing i see lacking in most pvp vids. Alot of people are looking for a set combo or style to take out a target. The veno class is very diverse and should be played in that fashion. It's not a cleric where the primary tactic for pk you is death dance or wiz with fire combo.

shade13

mistressmuerta wrote: »

This is why i really advocate for being able to see the targets chi and mana bar.

Are you sure you want others to be able to observe your chi and mana bar as well?

​​

srovarie

mistressmuerta wrote: »

As for sins if you are able to tank all thier damage, keep them on the defensive, or somehow kite then you can do it.

If you are able to tank a sin damage for 60 sec tidal then either he is a terrible sin or seriously undergeared compared to you. And yet if you still manage this somehow he will just go stealth/use ulti till tidal is ready again.

Your combo also burns up almost the entire duration of the bewitch and you haven't even used Soul Deg and Crush Vigor which is +4 sec at least even with good channelling. There is like no chance that your opponent won't flee or stun you until you finish this. And don't forget about that you need also a good 3-4 sec to put up the 2 DOTs and those can be purified at any seconds.
This combo just takes too much time and has too many flaws. But that maybe just me. I tried to practice this vs a little undergeared seeker, and I could do it like 2 or 3 times in 10-15 mins. And that was an 1v1 with a weaker opponent.

mistressmuerta

It is a double edge sword as far as being as the target and yourself see each others chi and mana, but it will add a new interesting dynamic to pvp. @Srovarie Do you think I do not test the things I post? Sins are not immune to damage with tidal up. I also said this isnt a 1 shot n go type of deal. It is all effective misdirection. Most classes wont be able to do much with no chi. You also failed to read summer sprint which is an antistun if you are demon. Chances are when they see you running up in fox is when they will attempt cc not after you already cc the target. The (insta cast)stunning blow)/bewitch combo was to keep the targeted silenced/immobilized. I never mentioned SD because its not mandatory for draining the chi. Can it help ensure the target may have less max hp than you. Yes but it not mandatory. Where are you getting dots from? CV is a 1 tick true damage dot. You also ignored the zooming powder portion if you are going for the straight kill. You continue to maintian thier chi at 0 through out the fight and when thier hp is in range go for CV bypass. The combo only requires you to have more hp than the target and the target to have 0 chi. I also said be creative there are several ways to chain into this combo. Do not fight with just one combo in mind veno has a nice assortment of lethal skills. Venomancer is not ok 123 GG like most of the classes in the game there are multiple set ups. Im not going to post every single combination i come up with and test because players dont want to experiment. That sucks the fun out of the game.

srovarie

mistressmuerta wrote: »

I never mentioned SD because its not mandatory for draining the chi.

Ah, we are talking about 2 different combo. At least you failed to read something too
The DOT skills need for the green glyphed Soul Degeneration skill. Which is the basic element for the combo I was talking about in the first place. I fhought you answered for that but you are clearly not.
Yeah, now it makes more sense. I still wouldn't bother myself to use it against a sin. Tidal can defend them against any skill in this combo (or every).

mistressmuerta

[quote
And don't forget about that you need also a good 3-4 sec to put up the 2 DOTs and those can be purified at any seconds.
[/quote]
If we are talking about two different combos, then how did i forget/need to add green glyph skills? Your assumption was that they are part of the combo i posted. I addressed your points and you interpretted them as an attack. I listed what was required for my example to set up for a RED glyph CV bypass. I will give you credit for trying something different because creativity keeps the game interesting. I see your logic in trying to prevent the target from healing but why try to prevent healing when you can just bypass. Your test of your own combo revealed its short comings. I would never use this on a sin unless they were out of tidal because of how easily it negates debuffs. If you are able to keep a sin on the defensive its not hard to pop a stealth pot. They do not share the same cool down with regular pots. The ultimate does not outlast the duration of the stealth pot. So if they try to stealth after their ulti ends you can still see them.