Poor Management

eirghan

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

Another assumption is who is doing the reporting. You can guess. You may even know for a fact in some cases because you know the person that did it, and their intent.

I agree with everything you said, but in this case, when someone world chats "in two days all of your accounts are going to be banned 'x faction'" and then a day later everyone in that faction's accounts are banned for investigation, you can be pretty sure who and what the intent was.

phantomforce#4598

eirghan wrote: »

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

Another assumption is who is doing the reporting. You can guess. You may even know for a fact in some cases because you know the person that did it, and their intent.

I agree with everything you said, but in this case, when someone world chats "in two days all of your accounts are going to be banned 'x faction'" and then a day later everyone in that faction's accounts are banned for investigation, you can be pretty sure who and what the intent was.

That is exactly the kind of thing I would open a ticket on, for harassment. If I were support staff, seeing something like that come in early, would give me a heads up to keep a very close eye on incoming tickets.

Again we must keep the same thought in mind, if the currently banned parties were in fact violating the rules, then there was still just cause in banning their accounts. If I were on the support team, I would also consider spreading the investigation a bit wider, but there is only so much you can do with limited staff. One thing I would consider it so look at the factions holding land, and checking those active accounts. That all may be way to much to just toss a blanket search at though. From what I hear, access may be limited, and I have no idea how you would start a blanket search like that. I'm sure half the time they do it on TV it's just TV fakery and they cannot do anything near that good, no matter how long it takes.

keihan007#7641

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

If you are putting fake answers in secret question responses, and are unable to recall the wrong answers you entered, who is at fault? The account may be legitimately yours, but can you prove it? You might want to so see if you can fix those. There isnt not an option to do so in the account settings that I can see, but maybe if you open a ticket. You would also need to be able to provide other relevant account information to prove you are the owner though.

Well this is absolute bs. I had the pleasure of dealing with this recently. I offered to prove my identity trough means of IP, charge history and so on but they demanded security answer as its "part of their protocol". It was some phenomenal trick of my memory to remember "fake" answer to my security question. And you know as well as I do how professionals suggest you to use "fake" answers in order to make hacking you harder. So requiring somebody to remember theirs after several years is plain idiotic. Either force ppl to update it regularly so you can expect them to remember it or allow us to prove our identity trough other means such as charge history.

phantomforce#4598

Yes, I must admit that I found it surprising there is not a way to change them. It should be similar to being able to change the password on your account.

Even if they forced it to be changed regulary, how would they notify you? Email of course. How many people have used fake emails on creating the accounts, just like the fake responses. Or no longer have the email they created the account with, and did not think to change it when their email changed.

You bring up a good point with charge history. It seems like something like that could work. I would think checking the IP address/account creation location was part of the process, but I do not believe I have ever had to go through recovering or proving ownership of an account.

I know the most common method is the security questions. They are prevelant in the industry for a reason.

eirghan

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

eirghan wrote: »

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

Another assumption is who is doing the reporting. You can guess. You may even know for a fact in some cases because you know the person that did it, and their intent.

I agree with everything you said, but in this case, when someone world chats "in two days all of your accounts are going to be banned 'x faction'" and then a day later everyone in that faction's accounts are banned for investigation, you can be pretty sure who and what the intent was.

That is exactly the kind of thing I would open a ticket on, for harassment. If I were support staff, seeing something like that come in early, would give me a heads up to keep a very close eye on incoming tickets.

Again we must keep the same thought in mind, if the currently banned parties were in fact violating the rules, then there was still just cause in banning their accounts. If I were on the support team, I would also consider spreading the investigation a bit wider, but there is only so much you can do with limited staff. One thing I would consider it so look at the factions holding land, and checking those active accounts. That all may be way to much to just toss a blanket search at though. From what I hear, access may be limited, and I have no idea how you would start a blanket search like that. I'm sure half the time they do it on TV it's just TV fakery and they cannot do anything near that good, no matter how long it takes.

Absolutely agree. Basically, the reporter's intent can be vindictive in nature, but the investigation is the same no matter what spurred it. In the end we all agreed to abide by the rules. It's an adjustment for some since PWI community has had free reign, for better or worse, for a very long time. This is Twilight Temple's second set of "ban wars" (enemy factions mass reporting each other). Hopefully by now people are realizing it's safer to follow the rules.

perrion

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

Again we must keep the same thought in mind, if the currently banned parties were in fact violating the rules, then there was still just cause in banning their accounts.

And all this does is validate vindictive ticketing as a practice that works. Selective rule enforcement is worse than non enforcement. It's unfair, causes resentment, and is completely unprofessional. These bull**** ticket wars need to end. All they do is ruin what little is left of the player base. Incompetent GMs who encourage this behavior need to go.

aensidhe

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

Yes, I must admit that I found it surprising there is not a way to change them. It should be similar to being able to change the password on your account.

Even if they forced it to be changed regulary, how would they notify you? Email of course. How many people have used fake emails on creating the accounts, just like the fake responses. Or no longer have the email they created the account with, and did not think to change it when their email changed.

You bring up a good point with charge history. It seems like something like that could work. I would think checking the IP address/account creation location was part of the process, but I do not believe I have ever had to go through recovering or proving ownership of an account.

I know the most common method is the security questions. They are prevelant in the industry for a reason.

I open accounts for storage and to test play different classes. I don't have perfect memory and will forget some of the security check questions. Let alone older questions which I changed for security renewal. Not to mention other exacerbating variables that can influence memory recall.

Why are security questions the most prevalent in the industry? Because they are the cheapest form of check. Most big organisations however, also have backup verification measures for account recovery. Namely payment, IP and certified documents. Why? Because of the issues regarding recall of questions and answers. I know people who forget their PINs to their bankcard despite using it frequently. We don't see them permanently banned from the bank.

And let's not forget biases are present either way. It's not just players who have friends, but GM/CMs too, and there are those GMs/CMs who play the game in certain guilds where I'm sure they have noticed the same behaviour on accounts. And yet, there is that inconsistency in reporting/treatment.

tricksie

It still should be share at your own risk. If you get "****" tough titties.

perrion

The whole "we can't allow sharing because it would cause too much trouble if someone lost items" line of reasoning is pure rubbish. They could give the same answer they give now, "too bad". It's a weak **** excuse and nothing more.

There really aren't any strong reasons not to just allow account sharing. At this point a large portion of the playerbase either shares regularly or has shared in the past. More harm is done to the community when highly active players (the only ones targeted by vendetta tickets) are banned for what is essentially a victim-less crime.

firefraii

"I started a ticketing war and they retaliated QQQQQQQ" game would be much better off without the ban wars that every butthurt loser can't help but start.

herbage

@kalystconquerer Can this be brought up to suggestions, not to give permanent bans for account sharing? Temporary would be fine for few weeks. I don`t see this reason of ban useful for any side. Less players for PWE, and players lose accounts, where they have put money, time and so on.

eirghan

And then there are those who ask for perma bans on sold accounts. Where is the line drawn? And thats not a rhetorical question but a sincere one.

rosalyn416

How about do this. When someone sends a ticket in reporting someone for account sharing. Check the accusers account as well as the accused. Chances are, the accuser is as guilty as the accused and should get the exact same punishment. Fact is, 80% of the server account shares or has account shared before at least once.

eirghan

I would agree with that. First time i was reported for account sharing was by someone playing on a sold account lmao.

perrion

rosalyn416 wrote: »

How about do this. When someone sends a ticket in reporting someone for account sharing. Check the accusers account as well as the accused. Chances are, the accuser is as guilty as the accused and should get the exact same punishment. Fact is, 80% of the server account shares or has account shared before at least once.

They would just report from an clean alt account, would solve nothing.

aensidhe

perrion wrote: »

rosalyn416 wrote: »

How about do this. When someone sends a ticket in reporting someone for account sharing. Check the accusers account as well as the accused. Chances are, the accuser is as guilty as the accused and should get the exact same punishment. Fact is, 80% of the server account shares or has account shared before at least once.

They would just report from an clean alt account, would solve nothing.

If they check the IPs, it would help. Other MMOs do this automatically.

keihan007#7641

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

Yes, I must admit that I found it surprising there is not a way to change them. It should be similar to being able to change the password on your account.

Even if they forced it to be changed regulary, how would they notify you? Email of course. How many people have used fake emails on creating the accounts, just like the fake responses. Or no longer have the email they created the account with, and did not think to change it when their email changed.

You bring up a good point with charge history. It seems like something like that could work. I would think checking the IP address/account creation location was part of the process, but I do not believe I have ever had to go through recovering or proving ownership of an account.

I know the most common method is the security questions. They are prevelant in the industry for a reason.

Well using fake e-mails isnt as prominent. People who have lost access to their old e-mails would be a problem too but the situation currently is just absurd. PWE should realized a large population of their players have no clue what their security answers are and using them as the only method for identifying people is ridiculous.

The IP is part of it I suppose, it just doesnt seem to matter if it matches or not. Like my accounts IP should be as static as it goes, its never logged by anyone but me and I only log it from home. But this mattered not, they wanted security question to be answered.

Charge history too would be problematic to an extent as not everybody charges but if you do, it would be added security to recovering your account and I dont really see a problem with that.

kalystconquerer#0876

That's all up to Customer Support and their department. I'm just a Content Engagement Specialist, so my realm isn't in dealing with individual people accounts and anything related to that. Anyways, as far as the specific incidents that were posed to me in PMs, please be sure to direct all further inquiries about them to Customer Support, as I'm unfortunately unable to assist you. But for all other things (Such as bug reports, promos, events etc.) I should be able to help with!

That's really all I have on this topic for now - please keep any further discussion civil!

cyberomega2012

I really feel sorry for kalystc and sylen sometimes, they have to deal with WW3 on the forums. In regards to laws and rights and TOS, if you feel the company violated laws, you can report them to the Better Business Bureau. Realize that you will have to give a detailed description of what happened and why you feel you need to be reinbursed. Even though this game has TOS, since their HQ is in California, they must follow California business laws. One problem is most of California laws do not deal with games, just giving you a warning.

laiwaisan

Hi biggest Troll on the forum here ask any one and that being said even i know account sharing is against TOSS and common sense dictates this at work you are not allow to have your cell phone on you but your boss tells you if its on vibrate and its out of sight out of mind he doesn't care its the damn same thing here use common sense its fine as long as you dont make it public the forum mods and are beloved kalystconquerer cant go against pwi Toss especially if there employed i mean seriously come on.

Im trying not to be mean but seriously common sense goes a long way and a rule of thumb is if you have to ask or justify your wrongs chances are your wrong lol.

firefraii

cyberomega2012 wrote: »

I really feel sorry for kalystc and sylen sometimes, they have to deal with WW3 on the forums. In regards to laws and rights and TOS, if you feel the company violated laws, you can report them to the Better Business Bureau. Realize that you will have to give a detailed description of what happened and why you feel you need to be reinbursed. Even though this game has TOS, since their HQ is in California, they must follow California business laws. One problem is most of California laws do not deal with games, just giving you a warning.

Dunno why you'd feel sorry for sylen considering he's just as bad for it as everyone else

sylenthunder

You guys make an awful lot of assumptions about me that have exactly zero actual facts behind them.​​

eirghan

Can honestly say i never saw
Sylen account share... Or is this just an extension of the current report wars with 70% random claims?

cyberomega2012

firefraii wrote: »

cyberomega2012 wrote: »

I really feel sorry for kalystc and sylen sometimes, they have to deal with WW3 on the forums. In regards to laws and rights and TOS, if you feel the company violated laws, you can report them to the Better Business Bureau. Realize that you will have to give a detailed description of what happened and why you feel you need to be reinbursed. Even though this game has TOS, since their HQ is in California, they must follow California business laws. One problem is most of California laws do not deal with games, just giving you a warning.

Dunno why you'd feel sorry for sylen considering he's just as bad for it as everyone else

Maybe Sylen sometimes gets tired of all the qqing and having to repeat himself on so many posts. Honestly, I would not want to do his job and though he might not be perfect, from what I see, he does try. The problem is people cannot handle his bluntness. Sylen, just keep doing your best.