Is this real?

orinj

Lulz. Sheepclouds doesn't work here anymore. Doctored pic.

arspaulina#4310

Orinj pls XD

Well, least you're alive and well, I suppose I can give you a ring on some stuff sometime today XD

heerohex#3018

LOL

well I was discreet in my post as to why... wish I never bothered now and just said.​​

eirghan

parrot2010 wrote: »

Why does she have a 1337 post number? Answer: 1337, leet, l33t - elite
Nice fake pic

Once I get to 1337 posts I will stop trolling forums. Clearly my pwi life would be complete.... Almost there....

orinj wrote: »

Lulz. Sheepclouds doesn't work here anymore. Doctored pic.

oooooor boy!​​

heerohex#3018

@eirghan

They could have used a better date. To be fair and among other things they used a new user profile which you could see from the above message GM/Admin would not have that. I can carry on with reasons for this as well as post count 1535 BTW HA! DOLH 1536...

Story did not add up so I was happy to dismiss tho its nice to see @orinj cover this as well.​​

writerred

Don't mind krian. he just doesnt like it when someone attacks his friends when said friend was simply trying to answer a question.
you assume i was being dickish when i was trying to ask a question based on logic. I was not trying to insult you in any way, because I have read several of your other posts and had considered you intelligent, but making a ignorant insult in an attempt to discredit my argument does not only prove nothing for you, but it actually weakens your argument. and in the original post there was not a link to the website merely a ss, which i personally do not trust ss of anything because even though i am not good with photoshop any one who is can make something like that.

eirghan

writerred wrote: »

Don't mind krian. he just doesnt like it when someone attacks his friends when said friend was simply trying to answer a question.
you assume i was being dickish when i was trying to ask a question based on logic. I was not trying to insult you in any way, because I have read several of your other posts and had considered you intelligent, but making a ignorant insult in an attempt to discredit my argument does not only prove nothing for you, but it actually weakens your argument. and in the original post there was not a link to the website merely a ss, which i personally do not trust ss of anything because even though i am not good with photoshop any one who is can make something like that.

Your original posts write and I quote:

writerred wrote: »

think about it.... . if you really believe..... Do you really think....

writerred wrote: »

Think about what you just said here.... obviously isnt.

You write twice to just "think about it" which says exactly that the person posting this (me) didn't or wasn't capable of thinking over this logically. You also keep using the word "really" and the word "obviously" which suggests that the matter is really obvious and therefore clearly the original poster (me) wasn't capable of grasping a very simple concept. So I returned the favour by asking you to do something obvious, like look up a definition. That had nothing to do with discrediting your argument and everything to do with talking to you exactly how you spoke to me. To which your friend immediately jumped to the rescue by acting like a 12 year old on xbox.

Whether or not you intended it to be insulting, it was very insulting. Then, you and your friend both suggest I am the one creating/issuing this. Which... Why would I do that on the forums under my own name? Clearly if I was clever enough to photoshop all of this I could just make a new forum name to post under? The screenshot was the only thing circulated, not a link to a website. If it was a leaked post it would not be accessible to the public.

I will accept your explanation as an apology, even though it wasn't quite one, as I suppose you didnt mean your post to be as insulting as it was, and I will also withdraw my suggestion for you to look up a definition and apologize to you as I should have given you the benfit of a doubt.

Your friend however can remain on my bl. I have no wish to help 12 year olds on xbox.
​​

airemeth090590

deleted

writerred

That's fine about leaving him on your BL. He couldnt care less. As usual his loyalty and overprotectiveness of those he considers a friend (and there are only a rare few who can be called that) got him into trouble again. But that's kind of his most admirable quality. If he has the means, he's willing to risk anything to help his few friends. What didnt help him this time, was he has already been in a bad mood for the past couple weeks, dealing with someone in RL. Had he been in a better mood, he probably wouldn't have jumped at you like that. But yeah, just leave him on your BL. At least we came to an understanding

foley3k

dregenfox wrote: »

The whole point for many lawyers is to challenge shady business actions like the one you described. If anything, it would be a civil/criminal case, with the grounds of proof being an intent to defraud. You can't open a game, run massive promotions and get people to charge a ton of money, and shut down the service 5 minutes later because its in your ToS. Technically you agreed to their ToS but violations like what you described were not meant to be enforced like that.

The only reason it wouldn't be challenged is because the monetary value is too insignificant to be worth the trouble. But I don't know for sure how much money people are spending in this game.

What PWI would likely do i'm guessing is to inform everyone 3 months ahead of time that the servers would be shutting down, stop taking payments, and give out free rewards/etc to appease customers.

Shady business practice? I didnt say they run a promotion then after people charged money, they shut it down. I said in the next 7 minutes they could shut down the game,(I didn't check if there are promotions running) but my point was that they can close the servers at any time they wanted to. If business is bad, you think the first thing on PWEs mind is the moron that spent $30K on this game?
You think people who bought a Pontiac are supposed to get their money back after their doors closed?

superfedee wrote: »

'murica is the home country of class actions, we put my 20ks here, then the 20ks of some others i know just from dawnglory, then you put the 1ks together, then you put the ones of other servers in the same lawsuit aswell,
there you go PWE has to face a million dollar lawsuit.

aaaaaaaand guess what? PWE is a company based in california so it can be damn subject to class actions and using words i already used in past, PWE ToS can be hard challenged in court, they are filled with vexatious clauses which require a particular form of contract for their acceptance from customer part, that is completely missing in here.
Only bringing this argument to court gives place to a void contract and full refund of the sums involved, for a service that is regulated by ToS that is vitiated by vexatious clauses.

@saxroll it was forsaken world

also there was a psychic called Rahiki on morai, he was playing a different server and had a problem with his account shut down due to a third part, and he had cashed in it.
PWE had to make a brand new 104 char full r9+10\12 on a different server to him, which he played for few years before quitting, who played morai knows, was the only 104 psy of the server that popped from scratch, with no name on gears when we didn't have inks.​​

Giving the benefit of the doubt, I would say at absolute most, on a good day, with a lawyer and judge that both play PWE, you might get back the money you spent in 1 month prior to the game being shut down. After the lawyer(s) fees. You might have enough left over to get a 7-11 hot dog and a Slurpee (small). I couldn't see a class action lawsuit getting certified against them for closing their servers.

You guys have to remember, that PWE does not sell a service. They sell zen, which is what you get when you spend money.
I seriously hope that people here do not think that they can get all or most of the money they spent on this game back when servers go down.

eirghan

I cant say whether people can get their money back but i hope pwi stops bringing in updates a good year or so before they close so we can get good and bored first x)

foley3k

eirghan wrote: »

I cant say whether people can get their money back but i hope pwi stops bringing in updates a good year or so before they close so we can get good and bored first x)

Good point. Too many people complain about the wait to get updates, then complain that the updates don't work. It's a vicious circle.

dregenfox

foley3k wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

The whole point for many lawyers is to challenge shady business actions like the one you described. If anything, it would be a civil/criminal case, with the grounds of proof being an intent to defraud. You can't open a game, run massive promotions and get people to charge a ton of money, and shut down the service 5 minutes later because its in your ToS. Technically you agreed to their ToS but violations like what you described were not meant to be enforced like that.

The only reason it wouldn't be challenged is because the monetary value is too insignificant to be worth the trouble. But I don't know for sure how much money people are spending in this game.

What PWI would likely do i'm guessing is to inform everyone 3 months ahead of time that the servers would be shutting down, stop taking payments, and give out free rewards/etc to appease customers.

Shady business practice? I didnt say they run a promotion then after people charged money, they shut it down. I said in the next 7 minutes they could shut down the game,(I didn't check if there are promotions running) but my point was that they can close the servers at any time they wanted to. If business is bad, you think the first thing on PWEs mind is the moron that spent $30K on this game?
You think people who bought a Pontiac are supposed to get their money back after their doors closed?

superfedee wrote: »

'murica is the home country of class actions, we put my 20ks here, then the 20ks of some others i know just from dawnglory, then you put the 1ks together, then you put the ones of other servers in the same lawsuit aswell,
there you go PWE has to face a million dollar lawsuit.

aaaaaaaand guess what? PWE is a company based in california so it can be damn subject to class actions and using words i already used in past, PWE ToS can be hard challenged in court, they are filled with vexatious clauses which require a particular form of contract for their acceptance from customer part, that is completely missing in here.
Only bringing this argument to court gives place to a void contract and full refund of the sums involved, for a service that is regulated by ToS that is vitiated by vexatious clauses.

@saxroll it was forsaken world

also there was a psychic called Rahiki on morai, he was playing a different server and had a problem with his account shut down due to a third part, and he had cashed in it.
PWE had to make a brand new 104 char full r9+10\12 on a different server to him, which he played for few years before quitting, who played morai knows, was the only 104 psy of the server that popped from scratch, with no name on gears when we didn't have inks.​​

Giving the benefit of the doubt, I would say at absolute most, on a good day, with a lawyer and judge that both play PWE, you might get back the money you spent in 1 month prior to the game being shut down. After the lawyer(s) fees. You might have enough left over to get a 7-11 hot dog and a Slurpee (small). I couldn't see a class action lawsuit getting certified against them for closing their servers.

You guys have to remember, that PWE does not sell a service. They sell zen, which is what you get when you spend money.
I seriously hope that people here do not think that they can get all or most of the money they spent on this game back when servers go down.

Whoever said one would need to even hire lawyers and make class action lawsuits? Those are the glitzy cases that get on the front page and everyone talks about, but there are thousands of small court claims every day in the US. Heck, they've even made popular TV shows about them.

Companies don't pull shady **** like instantly shutting things down without notice because its disproportionately cheaper for an individual to bring up civil damages for say, $2000, and then the company either needs to send an actual lawyer out, or pay a company rep to represent them in court.

All the private citizen needs to do is show up on court day with a half-decent justification/defense for damages. If it looks like they have a case, it's just not worth the hassle and the company is obviously going to try to settle privately for a lesser amount, maybe for $1000, with an agreement not to pursue/publicize.

Or they could shut things down in a fair way, by warning players, stopping payments, and avoid all of that. People who feel they've been treated unfairly will go to great lengths to to be made whole, but if it just looks like PWI is shutting down because it's no longer financially viable and thus a planned, deliberate choice, they have no legs to stand on.

dblazen1

orinj wrote: »

Lulz. Sheepclouds doesn't work here anymore. Doctored pic.

Another one bites the dust, rip in peace sheep.​​

foley3k

dregenfox wrote: »

Whoever said one would need to even hire lawyers and make class action lawsuits? Those are the glitzy cases that get on the front page and everyone talks about, but there are thousands of small court claims every day in the US. Heck, they've even made popular TV shows about them.

Companies don't pull shady **** like instantly shutting things down without notice because its disproportionately cheaper for an individual to bring up civil damages for say, $2000, and then the company either needs to send an actual lawyer out, or pay a company rep to represent them in court.

All the private citizen needs to do is show up on court day with a half-decent justification/defense for damages. If it looks like they have a case, it's just not worth the hassle and the company is obviously going to try to settle privately for a lesser amount, maybe for $1000, with an agreement not to pursue/publicize.

Or they could shut things down in a fair way, by warning players, stopping payments, and avoid all of that. People who feel they've been treated unfairly will go to great lengths to to be made whole, but if it just looks like PWI is shutting down because it's no longer financially viable and thus a planned, deliberate choice, they have no legs to stand on.

Good luck representing yourself in a class action law suit.
You talk about class action then mention small claims court. Which are you going for?
For small claims, you would first needs to ask PWE for your money back usually in written form. What would you deem reasonable amount to be given back btw?. Then you would need to file, which costs money. Then prove that they defrauded you out of money. A half decent justification/defense for damages? Serious? It is on the accuser in this case to prove damages. What damages happen to you from PWE shutting down the servers?
I never said they wouldn't give notice. I just said they could shut it down at any time they wanted to.
A company shutting down because it is no longer financially viable to stay a float is a perfect reason to shut down, and would have all the legs they need to stand on. It happens all the time and is the reason most business go out of business.

superfedee wrote: »

how not? unilateral behaviour in a "void" contract that caused damage worth of conspincuos economical value to multiple parts
that's ez
also in which world you have to pay your own lawyer's fees if you actully win the trial?
they sell virtual currency, that you used in their service, that went poof cause of unilateral behaviour blablabla

judges and juries, aren't machines, you can have on terms whatever you want, you could've sold whatever you want, but it's going to be clear as hell that PWE caused damage worth of economical value by interrupting service, especially if said service and purchases, were regulated by vexatious clauses that simply cannot be accepted customer part with a web page form by law.

and this just in case they announce shut down and then they proceed with it in the mid period, if they announce and shut down or plain shut down, right after customers put money, there is the prerequisite to prove fraudulent behaviour, which is actually a crime and someone there is gonna end up in jail for it.

i've seen lot of litigations of this sort, in europe they usually end with a settlement, you don't recover everything but most of the times 50%+​​

In which world do you live in where you don't have to pay a lawyer? A lawyer gets paid up front, a percentage of the money awarded, or a set amount upon losing a court case. Show me a lawyer that works for free, and I will show you a homeless person.
Again, I said that PWE could shut down the servers whenever they wanted. I didn't say they would run a promo, grab the money and close servers.
What damage economical value by them closing their doors because it is no longer viable to stay in business?

Again, I bring up the Pontiac example. They shut their doors. Can people who bought a Pontiac now sue to get some of their money back?

keihan007#7641

foley3k wrote: »

superfedee wrote: »

how not? unilateral behaviour in a "void" contract that caused damage worth of conspincuos economical value to multiple parts
that's ez
also in which world you have to pay your own lawyer's fees if you actully win the trial?
they sell virtual currency, that you used in their service, that went poof cause of unilateral behaviour blablabla

judges and juries, aren't machines, you can have on terms whatever you want, you could've sold whatever you want, but it's going to be clear as hell that PWE caused damage worth of economical value by interrupting service, especially if said service and purchases, were regulated by vexatious clauses that simply cannot be accepted customer part with a web page form by law.

and this just in case they announce shut down and then they proceed with it in the mid period, if they announce and shut down or plain shut down, right after customers put money, there is the prerequisite to prove fraudulent behaviour, which is actually a crime and someone there is gonna end up in jail for it.

i've seen lot of litigations of this sort, in europe they usually end with a settlement, you don't recover everything but most of the times 50%+​​

In which world do you live in where you don't have to pay a lawyer? A lawyer gets paid up front, a percentage of the money awarded, or a set amount upon losing a court case. Show me a lawyer that works for free, and I will show you a homeless person.
Again, I said that PWE could shut down the servers whenever they wanted. I didn't say they would run a promo, grab the money and close servers.
What damage economical value by them closing their doors because it is no longer viable to stay in business?

Again, I bring up the Pontiac example. They shut their doors. Can people who bought a Pontiac now sue to get some of their money back?

I dunno how its on states but here court generally makes loser pay winners financial costs for going to court. So if you were to win, PWE would pay for your lawyers on top of what you get back from them. But on the other side of the coin, if you were to lose you`d be forced to pay for their representation. Generally it would be safer for both sides to settle for something reasonable.

krian090590

saxroll wrote: »

I dunno how its on states but here court generally makes loser pay winners financial costs for going to court. So if you were to win, PWE would pay for your lawyers on top of what you get back from them. But on the other side of the coin, if you were to lose you`d be forced to pay for their representation. Generally it would be safer for both sides to settle for something reasonable.

in the states if you win a case the lawyer gets a percentage of the money you are awarded. they are not paid separately, and if you lose you pay their fee. at least that's how it was with the lawyer i used, but different firms for different laws might have different payment fees. for me it was 15% ot $700 for winning, whichever was cheaper

iliad#1359

Lol i bet the troll who made this never thought a clever discussion would come of it

foley3k

superfedee wrote: »

re-read what i wrote, who loses trial pays fees, usually judge itself even states in the sentence which part is supposed to pay lawyer fees.
you do not pay a lawyer up front, unless it's administrative stuff or injuctions (where you already have an enforceable title) besides the fact there are firms that take pro-bonos.

then your example is completely out of context,
pontiac went bankrupt... if PWE goes bankrupt its another kettle of fish, but well PWE has quite solid investors and capitalization.

Pwe is more like, Ford sold you a car, then that car model have innate engine issues, and they decide to shut down the car production, servicing, and replacement parts production of that model,
then you are stuck with that car that doesnt work and can't be fixed -> loss of economical value

Pwe can shut down PWI at any time.

Yes they can, then if there are subjects that put money into PWI, they can come after whoever took that decision and bring the fraudulent behaviour case in court.
I am quite sure PWE is stocked up with lawyers, they won't shut down titles that generate conspicuous cash flows, look at some other PW titles like idk Jade dynasty, they are so dead and yet PW doesnt shut them down, you have to wonder why.

As a company, not every product you have can generate a revenue, but you still have to differentiate your income from multiple sources, as low as it could be for some titles, with your logic PWE should keep up only idk neverwinter, imagine a major **** up happens to neverwinter and ppl quit the game. Your company goes default.
Instead: major **** up happens to neverwinter, np, i have other sources, i cut my costs, i resize, i optimize my company to make the little income from lesser titles be enough to keep my company running.

that's how you run a business.​​

You might want to google attorneys fees to see who pays them. Each lawyer/firm might have different ways they work, but you do have to pay the lawyer in someway shape or form. They aren't cheap.

My example isnt out of context. Pontiac did not go bankrupt. I think there was a threat of bankruptcy, but GM shut it down.
PWE = GM.
GM has many Brands (ie PWE has many games)
GM (pwe) determined Pontiac (pwi) wasn't making the money it needed it to to stay in business even after restructuring(pwe has done, and is doing some restructuring). So GM (pwe) decided to stop making Pontiac(pwi) and close its doors and focus on its other brands like Chevy, Cadillac and Buick. (Neverwinter, ForsakenWorld, star trek, etc...)
Also, you wouldn't be stuck with that car, that is why a warranty comes with it.

The game you mentioned may be "dead' but there is enough people to keep it going. PWE is dead, and it is still going because the game is designed that way (all pwe games are). You keep putting money into the game to justify the amount of time you put into it and vice versa. I would imagine it is hard to walk away from a game that you foolishly dropped 20K into, knowing that you do not own a goddam thing from it.

When it comes down to it, you can't get back the money you put into game. The transaction has been completed and you have used what you purchased already. Go ahead and get a lawyer, start a class action lawsuit, let me know how that works out for you.

arspaulina#4310

What's been said has been said, this thread got completely sidetracked/derailed from its original intent. I would suggest reading the TOS (Specifically the definitions in place for ZEN, it's values, Interruption of Service, Indemnity clauses and the Disclaimer's of Warranties, which would be Sections 24, 25, 27 and 29 in particular. and match that up against what CA's actual law codes say. In the meantime, if you'd like to open a different discussion of that feel free to, but this topics way off its rails as it stands now.