Since Realm of Reflection gets removed sooner or later, where will we be able to go then?

trixilein

In one of the previous discussions @thenamesdomino mentioned that China already removed the Realm of Reflection. Seeing as the "open world mediation for exp" is listed as a "vip/charger" bonus ( Need Star 2 for that aka 150 points, good 70+ Euros).. what will the rest of us normal players do that only occasionally charge or not charge at all? Does that mean only "gold charger" will have access to that feature?

Don't get me wrong folks, I use RoR to help my main who is 2nd rb when I have many hours that I can't actively play to get at least some few exp every now and then over night. I am not worried about the smaller people as getting up to lv 90 has gotten fairly easy even if you only play for an hour per day. But above that Level every exp that one an grab is actually very welcomed.

So what do you all think? Should we be able to mediate in our homesteads? Open on the worldmap? To main cities only? Or.. how about a room in the faction base for that? But what would people do whose faction doesn't have a base? Is afk exp mediation a vip bonus only thing?

@thenamesdomino in game wasn't exactly sure what will be done either... so maybe the community together can dig up some useful suggestions...

nbreaking

I made a huge comment on this, then before sending i deleted it cause I could sum it up in a single sentence:

This is dumb, keep pushing it and it becomes dumber. Make everything for VIP why won't you?xD Next thing you know they remove the repair function on the NPCs cause you can only repair if you're VIP 1
I should stop giving them ideas

kowka13

Guys, I have to dis-disappoint you - Realm of Reflection works perfectly well in China. It was checked just today and it works, though VIP people can reflect anywhere now.

freygin

Realm of Reflection makes people still online even though most of them are afk, and for those who want more exp will have to pay by buying boutique item, it prints money for the publisher when available for everyone, vip or not.

It'd be bad for business if they limit it to who pays and meet the vip requirement, little money gathered from lots of people can make more money than a few people who spend a lot. It still makes sense if vip people can reflect anywhere only.

dblazen1

PWI: P2W
VIP systems are literally the new cancer of MMO's.​​

jadasia

If everyone played for free and nobody charged gold how long would a reasonable person expect this game to remain online?

Cash shoppers do deserve extra perks over those who contribute absolutely nothing financially to the business who published the game. PWI is a for-profit business whether you people like it or not and yes they will give special attention to those who financially support it. If you don't like it then play a damned console game and gtfo a MMO

usmc1990

I have to agree with jadasia. I don't cs, and I do appreciate those whose does. Honestly without them this game would die long time ago. I was able to play this game for the past 8 yrs bc of them. A little incentive to them, I am all for it. Beside it's not like it gonna make ur chars fall so fall behind and out of balance bc of ror

trixilein

I have to request that you stay on topic please

this is NOT about people cashing or not. I do appreciate those who spend money on the game as well but still.. it is really not about the mobile mediation but about the removal of the realm for everyone...

this is about where everyone can go when the Realm of Reflection gets removed.

I will have to ask a Mod @sylenthunder " to close the thread if you guys can't stay on topic -.-

jadasia

trixilein said:

I have to request that you stay on topic please

this is NOT about people cashing or not. I do appreciate those who spend money on the game as well but still.. it is really not about the mobile mediation but about the removal of the realm for everyone...

this is about where everyone can go when the Realm of Reflection gets removed.

I will have to ask a Mod @sylenthunder " to close the thread if you guys can't stay on topic -.-

The cash shop discussion is very relevant considering that the star point system for cash shoppers may be what replaces the RoR eventually. Was interesting for me to be earning EXP reflecting while doing dailies in primal, botting, doing heavenfall tower and PV runs. Hell I was even reflecting while killing people in NW. If they convert the reflection system into a cash shop perk then so what. It will just be another perk for them and an incentive for some to charge at least $50 a month.

Sure it will remove the option for the free player to reflect if they do convert reflection into a full cash shop perk but my point remains. Cash shoppers deserve these perks over free to play players. They would just be removing one way to afk level from the free to play people at the same time adding many more ways for them to level in game without it. I see no issue with making the free to play people work to level rather than level in the realm for free. Make you people be active in the game to level is the way I see it. Hell I received more EXP in the 1st 20 levels of Heavenfall in less than an hour than I got reflecting in RoR in 5 days.

Besides have you any idea just how much free stuff PWI already gives away to free players? And this includes event gold for free fashion, flyers, etc. and yet you still want to complain about the possibility of afk leveling for free being converted into a VIP perk. Amazing. I just love how those who never contribute ANYTHING to financially support a form of entertainment provided by a for-profit business complain about something like this because it will cause them inconvenience. Again I see nothing wrong with modifying the system to make the free playing people level only when they are actively playing the game rather than for free while AFK and reserving that privilege for those who do financially support the business and makes the game available to those who do not.

This is on topic because this is what I believe PWI is doing with the RoR. Making it unavailable for the free players and if they want EXP while AFK then they must pay for that privilege. Consider it a tax for the service, lol.

darky26

I agree that people who spend money could have some benefits. I agree on that.

I don't agree with taking an existing feature, that anyone can use, and suddenly make it for only few. Everyone could use Reflection, so I would expect for it to remain that way. If it was a new feature, just appearing, I wouldn't mind at all! But so far everyone could use reflection. Why does it have to change?

If it's about mobility, I don't mind. Keep the Realm of Reflection for everyone, and give the option to people with VIP status to reflect anywhere they want. This way, I personally think it's fair for everyone.

kmnsenpai

Actually, it is not a rule that people who spend money on this game must get benefits over those who don't. This makes the game unbalanced and P2W. I've been in another games and this one made the mistake to make a huge difference between gold chargers and non-chargers. How? well, few years ago, it was about having to cash or farm for years to get the strongest gear, then it was added lvl pills, and now you're making this even more elitist with the VIP system. I know, this is a Free-to-play game, but this game makes the gold charge more of something you're forced to do to success than a boost to get what you need to success.
IMO, i think that this could be fixed if the cash shop was like other games, where it may not make you insta max gear and lvl, but make you enjoy of what developers have to you, like fashion, skins, mounts, etc. Something that won't make you better than the others just because you were lucky to afford the stuff. Maybe some stuff like refining orbs, exp boosts or that kind of stuff could also be welcomed, but for all the MMO's glory, you shouldn't make cash shop the solution of all problems and the key to max gear.

To make this thread stay on its main purpose, i would prefer this to happen if RoR disappears someday: Give us a spot to use reflection system (as many suggested before, it could be inside faction, homestead, or in main map), and let us use normal/Deep reflection there. Those VIP players may have a stronger exp meditation system far better than even the Deep one, and may meditate outside this spot (as it's proposed by saying "everywhere"). It could work good as for gold chargers as for non chargers

jadasia

kmnsenpai said:

Actually, it is not a rule that people who spend money on this game must get benefits over those who don't. This makes the game unbalanced and P2W. I've been in another games and this one made the mistake to make a huge difference between gold chargers and non-chargers. How? well, few years ago, it was about having to cash or farm for years to get the strongest gear, then it was added lvl pills, and now you're making this even more elitist with the VIP system. I know, this is a Free-to-play game, but this game makes the gold charge more of something you're forced to do to success than a boost to get what you need to success.
IMO, i think that this could be fixed if the cash shop was like other games, where it may not make you insta max gear and lvl, but make you enjoy of what developers have to you, like fashion, skins, mounts, etc. Something that won't make you better than the others just because you were lucky to afford the stuff. Maybe some stuff like refining orbs, exp boosts or that kind of stuff could also be welcomed, but for all the MMO's glory, you shouldn't make cash shop the solution of all problems and the key to max gear.

To make this thread stay on its main purpose, i would prefer this to happen if RoR disappears someday: Give us a spot to use reflection system (as many suggested before, it could be inside faction, homestead, or in main map), and let us use normal/Deep reflection there. Those VIP players may have a stronger exp meditation system far better than even the Deep one, and may meditate outside this spot (as it's proposed by saying "everywhere"). It could work good as for gold chargers as for non chargers

It's called business. And businesses are designed to make money. As stated if this game did not have a business model to generate revenue it would not exist for anyone. Cash shoppers make this a free game for those who play for free. And yes cash shoppers need an incentive to cash shop so yes they do deserve huge added advantages over those who contribute nothing to keep the game in production and service. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? If this seems so unfair to you people play a console game.

In the years I've played PWI this game has changed many, many times. They give away so much more for free these days than they ever used to in the past. Not only that they made the game much easier to level up and gear up for the free players now compared to years ago. That alone more than offsets any inconvenience a non-paying player may endure because some instance is converted to a perk for those who financially support the business which makes this game available.

It's hilarious how you people complain about what's fair and unfair for those who never contribute anything to PWI business but what about those of us who do? It's not fair that we pay to keep the game free for you and not get more extra privileges over you all considering all the free stuff you get too.

PWI is going to do what they want to do. They always have and always will. If you guys have issues with that then oh well. You get what you pay for. LOL.

trixilein

@jadasia:

You do realize that without the "ones that never charge" the gold chargers would have no one to sell their gold to? So if we were to leave.. what would you do with all that gold? Right.. you would sit on it, spend it in the boutique but not make anylonger any real profit of it.
No game survives without the non-cashers since we are way more and we know how to make coins in game to buy what we want from yes... exactly.. the cashers. There is a small balance on this and as long as PWI remains a play for free game you will always stumble over the ingame coin farmers and the cash"shoppers". Both kinds are needed to keep a game running.

You said while you had the vip2 reflection that you could actually move around during it? So why would it be an issue if the non vip people get a mediation for.. lets say the main cities on world map ( tellus, dawnglory, etherblade, archo, plume, lost, raging tide) where they MUST stand to gain exp? Like you do when you go in mediation for faster regeneration of mp/hp. You can't move during that either or it will end the process.

It would be a pretty good alternative. That way the mobile vip reflection would still be something better and special aka the goldchargers get more but the rest of the playerbase doesn't have to pass on an already existing feature.

Thanks for trying to stay on topic.

darky26

PWI is a F2P MMORPG. Both cashers and farmers are important. Farmers are a big part of the community. How fun for the cashers would it be, if a big part of the player base was gone (farmers)? Of course cashers are important, but farmers are important too. Since people often complain about declining numbers in people who actively play, I don't think that alienating more active players would be helpful. Both cashers and farmers contribute. In their own way.

@jadasia: The reference to console game fits more to cashing imo. One has to pay to buy it, therefore play it. Often one has to buy extra downloadable material, bonus, e.t.c. Just saying.

Indeed there are many free goodies these days. Why is that? Cause non-cashers are important too. The more active players the better. They are a business and they want to help as much players as possible. A happy playerbase is good for the business. Not that I'm saying that cashers aren't important. Of course they are! I'm saying that cashers, non-cashers, farmers, or people in between, are all important.

I do agree on the fact that cashers could have benefits. I agree on that. But a new feature.

Reflection is an existing feature available to everyone. It isn't fair to take something available to everyone and make it exclusively for a few. That's all I'm saying. Create a new feature for the cashers. Don't just take something that everyone knew and enjoyed and give it to selective few. I think new products/features could be created for the cashers and everyone could be happy.

And of course PWI is going to do what they want to do. It's their business. We're just talking here,exchanging opinions.


@trixilein: I totally agree!

jadasia

darky26 said:

PWI is a F2P MMORPG. Both cashers and farmers are important. Farmers are a big part of the community. How fun for the cashers would it be, if a big part of the player base was gone (farmers)? Of course cashers are important, but farmers are important too. Since people often complain about declining numbers in people who actively play, I don't think that alienating more active players would be helpful. Both cashers and farmers contribute. In their own way.

@jadasia: The reference to console game fits more to cashing imo. One has to pay to buy it, therefore play it. Often one has to buy extra downloadable material, bonus, e.t.c. Just saying.

Indeed there are many free goodies these days. Why is that? Cause non-cashers are important too. The more active players the better. They are a business and they want to help as much players as possible. A happy playerbase is good for the business. Not that I'm saying that cashers aren't important. Of course they are! I'm saying that cashers, non-cashers, farmers, or people in between, are all important.

I do agree on the fact that cashers could have benefits. I agree on that. But a new feature.

Reflection is an existing feature available to everyone. It isn't fair to take something available to everyone and make it exclusively for a few. That's all I'm saying. Create a new feature for the cashers. Don't just take something that everyone knew and enjoyed and give it to selective few. I think new products/features could be created for the cashers and everyone could be happy.

And of course PWI is going to do what they want to do. It's their business. We're just talking here,exchanging opinions.


@trixilein: I totally agree!

One purchases a console game once. And there are many more MMOs out there that require a subscription than there are Free to play. It depends on what business model the company which publishes the game chooses to pursue. They are in business to make money. By the way, Farming etc. is a major part of subscription based MMOs and console games as it is for those one. LOL!

jadasia

trixilein said:

@jadasia:

You do realize that without the "ones that never charge" the gold chargers would have no one to sell their gold to? So if we were to leave.. what would you do with all that gold? Right.. you would sit on it, spend it in the boutique but not make anylonger any real profit of it.
No game survives without the non-cashers since we are way more and we know how to make coins in game to buy what we want from yes... exactly.. the cashers. There is a small balance on this and as long as PWI remains a play for free game you will always stumble over the ingame coin farmers and the cash"shoppers". Both kinds are needed to keep a game running.

You said while you had the vip2 reflection that you could actually move around during it? So why would it be an issue if the non vip people get a mediation for.. lets say the main cities on world map ( tellus, dawnglory, etherblade, archo, plume, lost, raging tide) where they MUST stand to gain exp? Like you do when you go in mediation for faster regeneration of mp/hp. You can't move during that either or it will end the process.

It would be a pretty good alternative. That way the mobile vip reflection would still be something better and special aka the goldchargers get more but the rest of the playerbase doesn't have to pass on an already existing feature.

Thanks for trying to stay on topic.

Seriously? No MMO survives without the free to play people? ROTFLMAO!! See my comment above. No commercially available MMO would exist without those who are willing to pay for it. Lets put it another way. Suppose PWI converted the gmae into a Pay to play and force every one of you freeloaders to pay a subscription or gtfo. I think that it would actually lower prices of boutique items and make it much cheaper for the rest of us to play. LOL!

Just like removing hypers in FFC if they remove RoR it will not break the game. There are far too many other ways to level. Even for the free to play players. Converting this option to VIP only will make it inconvenient for the free to play player or it may actually give an incentive for you to support the business which provides you entertainment but it will not break the game.

darky26

@jadasia; One buys a console game once in a perfect world. Kidding. I don't think that I'm allowed to say names here, but I've bought games, only for more material to be released later and more things that one has to buy. One can buy some console games once, some others have additions and more things to it. So this statement isn't correct always.

I'm not against a MMO having a subscription or not. It's up to the company running it. I don't mind at all. I don't understand why you brought this in. PWI isn't in this category. Nothing wrong in having a subscription or not having one. I'm playing PWI and it doesn't have one, so I can't see the relation at all.

Of course removing RoR won't break the game. I don't think anyone mentioned that. It's just unfair to take something that is available to everyone and make it exclusive to few. That's all. Life will go on,e.t.c. XD
Why cause a problem when there is none? With trixilein's suggestion, and I'm sure we could come up with more ideas, everyone can be kept happy. RoR or restricted areas for everyone, all the world, instances, (I don't know) for people VIP. I think if we want, we could find an idea for everyone. Why create a problem for non-cashers, when we can create something new for cashers, without ruining a feature that is there for everyone?

jadasia

darky26 said:

@jadasia; One buys a console game once in a perfect world. Kidding. I don't think that I'm allowed to say names here, but I've bought games, only for more material to be released later and more things that one has to buy. One can buy some console games once, some others have additions and more things to it. So this statement isn't correct always.

I'm not against a MMO having a subscription or not. It's up to the company running it. I don't mind at all. I don't understand why you brought this in. PWI isn't in this category. Nothing wrong in having a subscription or not having one. I'm playing PWI and it doesn't have one, so I can't see the relation at all.

Of course removing RoR won't break the game. I don't think anyone mentioned that. It's just unfair to take something that is available to everyone and make it exclusive to few. That's all. Life will go on,e.t.c. XD
Why cause a problem when there is none? With trixilein's suggestion, and I'm sure we could come up with more ideas, everyone can be kept happy. RoR or restricted areas for everyone, all the world, instances, (I don't know) for people VIP. I think if we want, we could find an idea for everyone. Why create a problem for non-cashers, when we can create something new for cashers, without ruining a feature that is there for everyone?

I've been with PWI since 2009 and a change like this would not be unprecedented. Besides, who knows what they may add into the homestead system. In fact as far as an AFK instance RoR is pretty much rendered obsolete. That is an exclusionary unrestricted afk instance for each individual character with 35K rep. When they added Morai they added exp pills just from earning points questing. I received more EXP in heavensfall tower in 2 hours than I would in a week in RoR. In fact I get up to 5 hours in RoR a day with shards from daily quests which is roughly 1.2 mil exp per day reflecting there. I got more than that in 10 minutes completing rooms 1 and 2 in HF tower. And my char was level 101 RB2 at the time. I even get as much or more exp botting for 5 hours a day what I do now because i get about 500K of free coins in addition while afk.

My point is that RoR is just one minor way of getting exp out of so many others that came after it and removing the option from free to play people will have little impact. It might just make them earn their EXP by engaging in actual in-game activity and reserving afk EXP as a luxury incentive for cash shoppers. I really see no issue with it.