Spirit is too over rated for end game Sharding/cards/star charts?

icycoffeebreaks

I got this awesome star chart with 2x phys attack and 2x phys penetration, and everyone on the server keeps telling me it's a shame it doesn't have spirit on it. I already have over 1300 spirit unbuffed with my S card avatar set. And because of the expansion and increased sky lvls, pretty much everyone can have over 1,000 spirit easily. Wasn't there an equation for calculating the effectiveness of spirit, and that if both you and your target has 1,000+ you start seeing a diminish return of about 50%? At least this is what one of my friends told me. So does it means that spirit isn't the best stats to seek after on a star chart, and that something like attack and penetration would be much better off?

matthieudoncacci

The spirit is still important as it works as the different between yours andd the spirit of the defensers. More you have on pvp more you ll be deadly. I ll personally go for 2 spirits on fatestar if i can and phy pen in my birthstar => if i can have this on 5 nodes it will be my final chart (waiting for Astral energy 3 to get a good probability to get 5 nodes chart)

However, your star chart seems already awesome, keep it as main and keep rerolling another nab chart in the same time since you can have 7 new charts per day (2 chest and 5 nebula orbs).

mosz

blah blah blah why cant ya google, blah blah blah there is a pwi wiki with the exact formulas, literally 10 seconds of google, first result.
question 1 : yes
question 2 : clearly define "best", most practical use some sample numbers and see for yourself, or hire a math tutor, or instead of making a new post read the conclusions in the other posts..

matthieudoncacci

Mosz i did the math but i am still confused a little bit:
- Case one: i have two spirits on fatestar, so maxing it with a base before chart of 1200 spirits can give me an amplifier of 33% more damage.
- Case two: i have 2 x phy pen on fatestar, maxing it gives me 25% of phy res removed from my target.

But in case i have a 5 nodes chart with 2xspirit and 2xpen (hard to get but not impossible at astral level 3) what would be in your opinion the best combo ?
1) 2 spirits on fatestar
2) 2 phy Pen on fatestar
3) one of each on fatestar

Thanks in advance

dingo488

Yes, people heavily overestimate spirit, most people still consider 100 spirit = 10 def/att lvl....in reality 100 spirit = 4.5 def/att lvl with how much spirit people have these days. And the more spirit people get, the worse it gets, by the time people have max level star charts spirit will only be 100 spirit = 3.5 def/att lvl.

Then again cashshoppers have always spent their money really stupid on very low cost efficient things, so just let m do their thing ;x

jsxshadow

Yes.. Spirit is massively overrated. Especially these days. I would even go as far as calling most ppl dumb for sharding Brilliance stones in their accessories cause its a major waste of money and ya I know that hurts especially considering how expensive they are. I did some testing recently as I have loads of dif Equipment/powerful Cards and can adjust Spirit levels while retaining the same Def/Attack:

1123 Spirit (Barb) vs 1232 Spirit (Storm):
Mighty Swing deals: 1115 - 2232

1228 Spirit (Barb) vs 1232 Spirit (Storm):
Mighty Swing deals: 1171 - 2343 +105 Spirit to make it nearly equal results in ~5% Dmg increase

1228 Spirit (Barb) vs 1337 Spirit (Storm):
Mighty Swing deals: 1118 - 2236 +105 Spirit for the defensive Side results in nearly equalling it out again

1228 Spirit (Barb) vs 853 Spirit (Storm):
Mighty Swing deals: 1372 - 2744 +105 Spirit on the Barb and -380 for the Storm = 485 Spirit dif results in ~23%
DMG increase

Those results will get even lower with people reaching higher Sky Level as the deminishing return of Spirit is real. With everyone having at least 1100+ Spirit and Endgame-carded players at around 1400+ Basic Spirit They will most likely have an advantage of around 15% DMG and Survivability compared to those ppl...Not like this is worth the incredible money ppl are putting in.

Personally I aim for basic Stat increases now the most (e.g. on star Charts I love to have pdef, mdef, HP, p/mattack and p/mpen but the first 4 are kinda a must have for me personally, IDC about spirit) cause the dif they produce depending on your class is way better. If you are a G13 Sharded caster and your basic Pdef is very low (usually between 18k and 21k unbuffed depending on Ring Choice) it is way more effective sharding the Physical Defense Shards into the Ornaments.

Compared to my Storm...lets say someone has the same cards as me and got ~1400 Basic Spirit after reaching Shifting Sky X and this person would spend billions of coins (3x3x3x4x ~35m each = ~3.78b) on the highest grade of Brilliance Stones to get a total advantage of 100 Spirit to date. They would have like 4% dmg and survi advantage through this with compareable gears. Lets say this guy is a Caster and I shard the Highest grade of vit Stones instead than ofc my dmg wouldn't rise but my Survi would even surpass the 4% by far (I assume that 52 Vit would currently add ~8% survi on a caster esp with the new HP passive and thats on a caster!!!) for only a little amount of money compared to the money needed for spirit stones. Same game if you are fighting a phys class and you add the Pdef shards.

You see...people are so friggin blinded by Spirit that it isnt funny anymore. Everyone thinks that Spirit is OP and they dont question any further. Spirit is good, especially with a huge amount of Def and Att-Level...but it isnt as strong as it was before unless you got a huge huge advantage over your enemy.

PS: Imho the most important stat for any class you can get on Star-Charts atm is HP, especially for Caster and thats by a huge margin, followed directly by the defenses.

aeternusdoleo

Given Phys Penetration and Mag Penetration, does it really pay to invest in basic phys res and mag res for sharding? Would a deflvl sharding or two not be more effective, since those won't be affected by the penetration values?

[Edit] And are the phys pen/mag pen (depending on which dmg type you focus on) not more important then the defenses? Ignoring a percentage of your enemy defenses by having the proper penetration in 2 fatestars, at endgame, could be very nasty... to the point where I doubt any kind of defenses would even matter anymore. If that holds true, the Archer class could shine again at true endgame - they'll usually have first strike due to their huge range.

dingo488

pdef and mdef shards have been **** for the past 2 years

jsxshadow

dingo488 said:

pdef and mdef shards have been **** for the past 2 years

That was only due to the amount they give in comparision with other stats. As a caster, lets say ur already full jades and now you get 2 maxed Fatestar with pdef each 2047...that would be so friggin broken and by all means better than any other possible stat. I will surely aim for this...100+ def lvl combined with over 30k unbuffed pdef friggin broken.

dingo488

I guess it all comes down to what ur current stats are, the situation for JOSD vs Vit stones highly influences the effect of pdef/hp/mdef. To be honest im looking at Accuracy to be one of the best stats, being a BM with +100% from rings that provides me with 2404 accuracy per fatestar, thats 120 dex worth of accuracy, I want dat shjt, tho I havent bothered to do any math on it since beggars cant be choosers, and untill they make these things more easily obtainable Im just a beggar xD

jsxshadow

dingo488 said:

I guess it all comes down to what ur current stats are, the situation for JOSD vs Vit stones highly influences the effect of pdef/hp/mdef. To be honest im looking at Accuracy to be one of the best stats, being a BM with +100% from rings that provides me with 2404 accuracy per fatestar, thats 120 dex worth of accuracy, I want dat shjt, tho I havent bothered to do any math on it since beggars cant be choosers, and untill they make these things more easily obtainable Im just a beggar xD

IKR. Even I as a barb would love to have at least one Accu Fate Star at max then...1200 Accu..Holy cow! Thats like 5k Extra Accu in Blood Bath I definitly would love this as well. But ya BMs have a huge need for Accu.

icycoffeebreaks

dingo488 said:

I guess it all comes down to what ur current stats are, the situation for JOSD vs Vit stones highly influences the effect of pdef/hp/mdef. To be honest im looking at Accuracy to be one of the best stats, being a BM with +100% from rings that provides me with 2404 accuracy per fatestar, thats 120 dex worth of accuracy, I want dat shjt, tho I havent bothered to do any math on it since beggars cant be choosers, and untill they make these things more easily obtainable Im just a beggar xD

That's a very good idea! I didn't think the accuracy from the star chart would be such a huge status increment for a none dex dependent class. Thanks for your constructive input dingo. It's a good thing I didn't waste my coins yet on those spirit shards. Think I'll settle for def lvls or vit.

zoner112012

I believe that penetration stats would be really crazy myself so I am glad that at least for now it is limited to star charts. Spirit though....is detrimental to end game pvp.

aphrodita

jsxshadow said:

Yes.. Spirit is massively overrated. Especially these days. I would even go as far as calling most ppl dumb for sharding Brilliance stones in their accessories cause its a major waste of money and ya I know that hurts especially considering how expensive they are.

i paid a total of 320 million coins for my 4 x 16 spirit shards, which is according to your calculations 3 attack level and 3 defense level in one. how exactly was it "dumb" of me to "waste" 1% of my coins for that?

demansfairy

Am I the only one who thinks regular magic/physical damage > penetration? 8 an maybe it's because my m attack isn't maxed (50-56 k unbuffed) but the 400 I get from birthstar is about 7.7 % more damage for me atm while penetration at 630(?) Would be about 6 % more damage. I would need to gain about 1400 (base) more m attack for penetration to even start being worth the better stat.