"The Forgotten Barrow" (My first foundry quest)

paladinjonweston · June 2015

Hello everyone out there in the wide web of the world. I would like some honest feedback about my very first foundry quest "The Forgotten Barrow". Foundry Quest ID: NW-DDQD5ZOUQ . My handle is @paladinjonweston. Thus far the reviews I have gotten have been mostly positive with a few people complaining about my affinity for putting traps out of plain sight so that you have to watch where you step. All that being said, I'd very much like some tips on how to make the quest more interesting and appealing to players. All opinions are appreciated and will be thoroughly considered. Thanks in advance!

melinden · June 2015

Usually when you are requesting a review you should add the short code and your @handle if it is different from your forum name (as yours is).

I found your quest but since I saw it was on the longer side I'll have to wait until a little later this evening to play when I have some more time free.

melinden · June 2015

I played with my level 60 DC. The quest doesn’t have any errors and most of the spelling and grammar is correct. That’s often rare in a first quest, so excellent work there.

Now if you want this quest to be Feature-ready then you will want to invest a lot more time into the detail work:

Add a LOT more dwarven details in the crypt. You can push the wall details into the room walls to get a hybrid look. You can also tile dwarven floors over the crypt floors. You can add pillars, shrines and so on. When it comes to foundry maps, more is usually better.

You probably want to smooth out the storytelling. Right now the player starts out with very little and then gets 3 huge paragraphs from Fatbeard at the end. Adding that information to journals, plaques, shrines, etc can help the pacing.

The Encounters are pretty static. You will want to add patrolling and wandering. You should re-costume them to be the dwarves the story says they are.

Good luck on all of that and welcome to the foundry!

You’ll find my detailed notes below:

The Forgotten Barrow:

-crypt rooms and details are really monochromatic. It is helpful to break up the look (the same is true for caves.) You mention the crypt doesn’t have furnishings but you could customize the look for your story by adding dwarven architectural details. You have a few things here and there but you can add a lot more.
-be careful using spike traps as they often malfunction in foundries and trap players indefinitely.
-you may want to consider making your encounters wander or patrol. With Undead it isn’t as strange that they just stand there, but it does make the quest have a more dynamic feel.
-the multiple stacked encounters in the room with the plaque for the objective “Look for Clues” is difficult and will be very very difficult for any players in the 60-69 range. You should consider “chaining” them (have the next set appear after one encounter is killed with an Appear When Component Complete) instead of stacking them.
-since this is a dwarven crypt you may want to have the undead be dwarves. There a few models for dwarf rotters and you can make the skeletons shorter.
-I would spread the story out in the dungeon some more and have Morlin say less at the end.
-in a couple of places “sovriegn” should be “sovereign”

paladinjonweston · June 2015

I didn't catch your first reply until you had posted your second. The description of the quest you played and the fact that it is set in Neverdeath lets me know that it's not mine. I will be editing my original post to include this code for the actual quest. Foundry Quest ID: NW-DDQD5ZOUQ My Handle is @paladinjonweston

Again I'm terribly sorry you went through all that just to find this out. I hope it won't deter you from playing my quest.

melinden · June 2015

D'oh. OK, I'll get to it tonight.

melinden · June 2015

OK, I added the correct review for you. Good luck!

paladinjonweston · June 2015

Thanks for the play and the review. I thought the dialog with Morlin to be a bit lengthy but I'm not sure how to fix it. I'm also not sure how to give the barrow a detailed look but retain the disused condition that it's supposed to be in. Any thoughts would be helpful. Again, thanks for playing.

eldarth · June 2015

Okay, looks like melinden caught a lot of good points, and I just did a quick run through last night.

Thoughts:

When Burkhard described breaking through the ceiling of a barrow I was really hoping to travel to the countryside/above ground area where there might be some construction workers gathered and see some construction occurring and a ground cave-in detailed before transitioning into the barrow itself.
The entry of the barrow - while you had some collapsed hallway type debris, there was really nothing to give the feel of a roof cave-in being the way in. There didn't seem to be any "entrance" that I came thru I merely appeared in the middle of a barrow hallway. You could have used perhaps one of the broken ceiling details with sunlight streaming through and placed the spawn point up near the ceiling with rubble and boulders "descending" to the crpyt floor.
Crypt debris in hallways/rooms -- there seemed to be "alot" of it -- it also appeared to all be in the identical rotation direction so you see a lot of repetition of the debris angles (such as tile corners) all facing the same way and all apparently the same flat angle of pitch/yaw. It's also entirely on/level with the floor. Where did all the debris/tiles originate? If you look up, there is no "damage" to the ceiling (or walls) where it may have fallen from. "falling dirt" effect really helps sell "collapsed" area ambiance.
Hallways - definitely somewhat barren except for flat debris - occasional statue or urn/vase could provide some decorative details to the sides. Perhaps some (or alot) of spider webs in rooms that spiders have "nested" in -- there are also spider "egg sac" detail assets that can be placed.
traps - as mentioned spike traps are bugged and can paralyze a player for multiple triggerings and be fatal - should probably avoid. Arrow/dart traps the projectile origin was always sticking out frm the walls and in most cases bottom half was buried in curve of room wall base - originators should be so flush with the wall that only the arrow/dart holes are visible. Trap triggers themselves should be just a hair below the floor so that the trigger itself is not visible - but also not buried under rubble where it cannot be detected before entering it. - I also "skirted" most of your traps by "hugging" the hallway walls - this is where statues/urns could help funnel into hallways centers.
Skeletons - as mentioned, if they are dwarven you should use the costume editor to decrease their torso length and bulk up their chest width/depth to make them more dwarven. You also might want to set them all to "feign death" so that they are lying on the floor until player comes close enough to disturb them.
2-D/3-D editing -- most of the quest seemed to have a 2-D editor only feel to it -- debris rotation/tilt for example, arrow/dart projector positioning, I also noticed every "dwarven quiver" asset was vertical and half-buried in stone floor - very odd looking. You definitely need to go through 3-D previewer and "eyeball" where everything is placed. Cryptic has "cleverly" put detail "handles/anchor-points" in the center of some assets (like dwarven quivers, redcap cages, pouches, bags, etc) so when things are placed using just the 2-D editor they end up being half-buried in terrain.
sarcophagus room -- every sarcophagus on left had lit brziers and lids, every one on right had no lit braziers and no lids - seemed a little strange --- also "who/what" lit or kept lit those braziers?
The spiderqueen should probably be female drow (not a spider) surrounded by "driders."
Fatbeard should probably be a spirit or ghost and not a zombie/undead?

melinden · June 2015

If you haven’t been working in the 3D editor that will make a big difference.

I threw together a quick half made example for you. I was mostly just riffing on some of the themes in your dungeon. I selected the blue glass and fire light option, you select the lighting per room on the layout view.

Here you go:
Example of Dwarven Crypt
@DoctorBadger
NW-DHRFHXXWN

Let me know when you’ve had a look so I can take it down.

paladinjonweston · June 2015

I really like all your answers and in truth I just found out I had the ability to edit this thing in 3D. Knowing this my dungeon is about to get an overhaul. I'm now going to go through your answers one by one and maybe ask a question or two or make a comment. I don't want this to sound like I'm being argumentative but like I am genuinely interested in perfecting or vastly improving this quest.

1. I really like this idea and had it when I first created the quest but excitement over building the dungeon proper took over and it never came to fruition. I'm glad it's here so I can come back to it now.

2. I have begun my overhaul in the entry and am even adding an encounter with spiders here. I really like the idea of the broken ceiling but didn't see the option so I'll be looking for that and adding it. I'm also considering moving the encounter with the "Handmaiden of Lolth" to the first room to give the distinction that something is terribly wrong here. Or maybe she deserves her own room. She is a big girl now... lol

3. & 4. The debris... there really is far too much of it. I will be removing most of it in lieu of better details such as cob webs, vases, statues, egg sacs etc. etc.

5. I HATE spike traps! Will be removing these and replacing with blade and spear traps. Can one put a spear trap in the floor? I'll figure it out.

6. I'll be working with the costume editor a lot to make these more Dwarf-like in the future. I like this feign death idea I'll be looking for that option and using it heavily in both the sarcophagi room and the mass suicide room. Speaking of which I've thought about adding a detail about that. The suicide, that is. Maybe they all killed each other in a big free-for-all with the last one standing having to make sure the others are dead before offing himself or dying of dehydration his choice, or maybe they used poison but that's not very dwarf-like I don't think. Maybe they just did the whole fall on their sword routine. I'll have to think about this.

7. Literally just figured out the whole 3D editing thing will be working with that to make improvements throughout.

8. I'll be re-configuring that room. I would really like to use those exploding sarcophagi like in cragmire crypts but I don't know if that's possible. The braziers being lit can be explained as a magical effect just like the one that creates Everburning torches in the tabletop game.

9. The "spider queen" should be labeled as a "Handmaiden of Lolth" which if my knowledge of lore serves me correctly are neither Drow nor Drider but giant spiders who protect Lolth herself in her inner sanctum. I might be wrong there. The presence of one of Lolth's minions in the dungeon is mentioned by Fatbeard, but I figured most would think of spiders in general either way works.

10. I don't think there is a ghostly or spectral dwarf to choose in the costume editor. I chose the plaguetouched dwarf from the available costumes and tried to make him look as ghostly as possible, but maybe that doesn't work. I received a comment that mentioned Fatbeard being beardless. I should probably add that as part of his dishonor that they shaved him that's probably a juicy tidbit.

Lots of work to do! I think it can be great with some time and effort. By the time it's done I should be more than ready for the sequel. Again thank you very much for the excellent advice.

paladinjonweston · June 2015

melinden wrote: »

If you haven’t been working in the 3D editor that will make a big difference.

I threw together a quick half made example for you. I was mostly just riffing on some of the themes in your dungeon. I selected the blue glass and fire light option, you select the lighting per room on the layout view.

Here you go:
Example of Dwarven Crypt
@DoctorBadger
NW-DHRFHXXWN

Let me know when you’ve had a look so I can take it down.

I have seen it and thanks for showing me all those things. When I add all of those details this dungeon will be a knock out!

"The Forgotten Barrow" (My first foundry quest)

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