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Dragon Loot questions

falkenblackhandfalkenblackhand Member Posts: 310 Arc User
edited June 2015 in General Discussion (Xbox One)
So can someone. Anyone explain to me what proof we have that Reviving fallen allies and or taking out Adds increases your odds on the loot you get from a dragon? Also i know that if you do high enough dmg, it says Great Success. Is there a Greater success or even epic because some people claim there is. I have never personally seen it.
-Falken Blackhand (Co-Leader) Of The Forsaken Reborn
LVL 70 Hunter Ranger Pathfinder/Trapper
Post edited by falkenblackhand on

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    draven165draven165 Member Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I thought the "Level of Success" was not from any individuals damage output but more of how fast the dragon is killed. I am a pure healing cleric so i do zero damage to the dragon and almost always get great success. That pretty much debunks the thought that your damage changes the success.

    Also not sure on the item drops. I have received alot of items (draconic and dragon bone) from dragons and again I take out no adds or do any damage.
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    skeld11skeld11 Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Do you have to be in a certain group to get loot from a dragon or does it just depend on how effective you are?
    GWF
    -ASYLUM-
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    cummins12vcummins12v Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    draven165 wrote: »
    I thought the "Level of Success" was not from any individuals damage output but more of how fast the dragon is killed. I am a pure healing cleric so i do zero damage to the dragon and almost always get great success. That pretty much debunks the thought that your damage changes the success.

    Also not sure on the item drops. I have received alot of items (draconic and dragon bone) from dragons and again I take out no adds or do any damage.

    It does not debunk anything. It just means the game rewards people for healing during the fight. If you barely do any damage and your NOT healing then you will get 3 coins. If you do a lot of damage OR your healing, you will get the 5 coin one. I've only ever got epic drops from getting the 5 coin award. Whether or not that matters however when it comes to epic drops I do not know.
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    draven165draven165 Member Posts: 255 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    cummins12v wrote: »
    It does not debunk anything. It just means the game rewards people for healing during the fight. If you barely do any damage and your NOT healing then you will get 3 coins. If you do a lot of damage OR your healing, you will get the 5 coin one. I've only ever got epic drops from getting the 5 coin award. Whether or not that matters however when it comes to epic drops I do not know.


    The OP's question or statement was "Also i know that if you do high enough dmg, it says Great Success" When saying it was debunked I was referring to this point. Sorry I assumed it was clear what I was referring to.

    To answer your question on Cleric damage to recharge. In dragon fights I pretty much just spam Astral Seal so the fighters get healed when they do damage. (3 hits of AS recharges my abilities fully) so the damage from that is pretty minimal.

    Also and as sad as this is to admit, when I was leveling up my hunter ranger, i was around level 20 and ran into the fight with Char in neverdeath. I shot the dragon 1 time and ran away and watched. I received the Great Success off of only hitting the dragon 1 time. So not sure how any of this is calculated but I highly doubt it is off any individual persons damage.
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    lvlkarmalvllvlkarmalvl Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    draven165 wrote: »
    ...So not sure how any of this is calculated but I highly doubt it is off any individual persons damage.

    I'm fairly positive it has to do with how fast the Dragon is taken down. For instance, I have actually been around a failed Dragon take down and gotten a failing grade. I'd heard from someone in the zone that "if we had to fail, at least we did enough damage to get the best failing grade". Apologies, don't remember what it's called. Basically we got a Hoard coin or two.

    Again, only know what I've experience but the fast we've taken down a Dragon the better the base reward. In the case of a failure, it seems like the more damage done the better. A success seems to allow for a role on the Dragon loot drop table (ie Clothes, Dragonbone maybe) and a Great Success seems to allow a role on higher tier of the Dragon loot drop table (ie Dragon Bone, Artifact, etc). At times I've felt like their was some kind of participation gate, but I just don't know. I've literally showed up in time to get one swing in before a Dragon died and gotten full reward. A few other times I've done similar and not gotten the full reward.

    Hope that provides some clarity, assuming I'm right of course.
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    pentnoirpentnoir Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    edit: deleted comments about time and success, it was false.

    My loop through neverdeath dragon area counts damage on cultists as contribution toward the dragon fight, which is why I can get great success while doing zero damage on the dragon. My loop is the dragon room and the room just before the dragon. I can make multiple loops while they kill the dragon and I'm guessing that it sees my damage done as helping kill the dragon.
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    waffennachtwaffennacht Member Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2015
    pentnoir wrote: »
    im with everyone else, the level of success is based on how quickly it dies. One of my refining stone grinding loops goes through a dragon room and it will often give me great success even though I did zero damage to the dragon (was just killing the monsters in my loop).

    I know for a fact it has nothing to do with time alone. The shorter the fight the less likely i get great sucess, im pretty sure its like AP and depends on the class, im 90% its damage for my HR
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    atlas77777atlas77777 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    It has nothing to do with the time. The level of success is based individually on how you perform during the fight compared to the other players in the zone fighting the dragon. I would guess the score is measured a lot like how threat is generated/calculated. Damage and healing count for equal points, while a tank can increase threat utilizing abilities/feats/powers that have a multiplicative effect. When I play a GF I ALWAYS get a great success as long as I get to the dragon before he has less than 1/3 health (same for the clerics I know). There are typically few to no other competing tanks, and we have the ability to generate a lot of single target threat. Whereas it's slightly more difficult for me to get it on my CW because there are more dps players to compete against, and I'm not nearly as geared on my alt.

    Also, for some reason in Rothe Valley the dragon always gives the top result-regardless of performance.

    If you don't have high end gear, the more people fighting the dragon, the less chance you'll have at a great success. It's a competition.
    -Rex, the Mad King of [Legendary Outlaws]

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    monktoastymonktoasty Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I.think none of you actually know how it works

    I think even.the devs probably dont even know
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    telprydaintelprydain Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    atlas77777 wrote: »
    The level of success is based individually on how you perform during the fight compared to the other players in the zone fighting the dragon.

    We already have people here who have said they have had a great success without contributing at all, so that seems unlikely.
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    zephyriahzephyriah Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,980 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    falkenblackhand wrote: »
    So can someone. Anyone explain to me what proof we have that Reviving fallen allies and or taking out Adds increases your odds on the loot you get from a dragon? Also i know that if you do high enough dmg, it says Great Success. Is there a Greater success or even epic because some people claim there is. I have never personally seen it.

    Success tiers are based on damage dealt, damage taken and healing done ( a revive is in the healing classification). In every HE you have a chance to get any possible drop in addition to the tier reward. Great success only increases you chance to get a better drop. The tier system is what people talk about with the greater or epic connotation. If you read the reward window, it will say "you received a ______ reward" the blank will contain the tier.

    This link will verify the information in the first sentence. Slightly lower than halfway down.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?720091-Heroic-Encounter-Dev-Q-amp-A-Thread-Transcript&p=8562411&viewfull=1#post8562411
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    silktrocitysilktrocity Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    draven165 wrote: »
    I thought the "Level of Success" was not from any individuals damage output but more of how fast the dragon is killed. I am a pure healing cleric so i do zero damage to the dragon and almost always get great success. That pretty much debunks the thought that your damage changes the success.

    Also not sure on the item drops. I have received alot of items (draconic and dragon bone) from dragons and again I take out no adds or do any damage.

    Healing is taken into account.. I'm a healer too. The more you heal, the more success you will have.
    Lady Vayo TR - Silky OP - Lord Reven DC (retired) - Lady Luck HR (retired)
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    cactusjacktercactusjackter Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The level of success (of which "Great" is the best you can get) is determined by your contribution to the event. Whether that be healing, kills or simply damage (it's basically the same criteria as the skirmish leaderboards - not dying also counts as contributing). It has nothing to do with how quickly a dragon drops - especially if you're a Guardian Fighter. If a dragon drops quickly you have almost no chance of getting a Great Success as you do so little damage.

    Unfortunately, just like in the skirmishes, it seems that threat generation does not count as a contribution to the fight, meaning Guardian Fighter tanks are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to getting the best rewards.
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    zephyriahzephyriah Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,980 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    cactusjackter wrote: »
    The level of success (of which "Great" is the best you can get) is determined by your contribution to the event. Whether that be healing, kills or simply damage (it's basically the same criteria as the skirmish leaderboards - not dying also counts as contributing).

    Actually, dying does contribute in an odd way. It counts in the taking damage category. It is not a great strategy, especially if the nearest campfire is far away as you won't have as much an opportunity to take more damage.
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    cactusjacktercactusjackter Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    True, but the amount of deaths is going to quickly cancel out the damage taken contribution. It seems that even one drop is enough to class you out of getting a great success - but then that's also probably because I'm a tank and squeaking into a great success is hard enough as it is.
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    cummins12vcummins12v Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    draven165 wrote: »
    The OP's question or statement was "Also i know that if you do high enough dmg, it says Great Success" When saying it was debunked I was referring to this point. Sorry I assumed it was clear what I was referring to.

    To answer your question on Cleric damage to recharge. In dragon fights I pretty much just spam Astral Seal so the fighters get healed when they do damage. (3 hits of AS recharges my abilities fully) so the damage from that is pretty minimal.

    Also and as sad as this is to admit, when I was leveling up my hunter ranger, i was around level 20 and ran into the fight with Char in neverdeath. I shot the dragon 1 time and ran away and watched. I received the Great Success off of only hitting the dragon 1 time. So not sure how any of this is calculated but I highly doubt it is off any individual persons damage.

    I understood fully what you said. And I stand by iit that your healer getting great success does not mean damage is not a factor for dps classes.
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    grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Epic rewards only come from Great Success and Epic Rewards.

    cummins12v wrote: »
    It does not debunk anything. It just means the game rewards people for healing during the fight. If you barely do any damage and your NOT healing then you will get 3 coins. If you do a lot of damage OR your healing, you will get the 5 coin one. I've only ever got epic drops from getting the 5 coin award. Whether or not that matters however when it comes to epic drops I do not know.
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    mrdurvamrdurva Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    atlas77777 wrote: »
    It has nothing to do with the time. The level of success is based individually on how you perform during the fight compared to the other players in the zone fighting the dragon. I would guess the score is measured a lot like how threat is generated/calculated. Damage and healing count for equal points, while a tank can increase threat utilizing abilities/feats/powers that have a multiplicative effect. When I play a GF I ALWAYS get a great success as long as I get to the dragon before he has less than 1/3 health (same for the clerics I know). There are typically few to no other competing tanks, and we have the ability to generate a lot of single target threat. Whereas it's slightly more difficult for me to get it on my CW because there are more dps players to compete against, and I'm not nearly as geared on my alt.

    Also, for some reason in Rothe Valley the dragon always gives the top result-regardless of performance.

    If you don't have high end gear, the more people fighting the dragon, the less chance you'll have at a great success. It's a competition.

    Even that has nothing to do with it. Led a buddy to the whispering cavern dragon while he was lvl 18 and in the 40 runs we did he had great success 31 times.
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    strictlyevilstrictlyevil Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Your damage is scaled up when fighting dragons. A level 20 that normally can only hit in the hundreds will hit in the 10k+ range while fighting a dragon so it's not too hard to get a great success regardless of level.
    Ancient 18.8k CW | Ancient Heals 18k DC | Ancient Tank 22.2k GF | GT: XGC Army
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