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Let's talk BiS for XBox1...

sinibytesinibyte Member Posts: 61 Arc User
edited June 2015 in The Thieves' Den
So for main hand it's pretty simple - grind out your campaign artifact weapon.

For the rest of the slots would it be...
  • 4 piece T2?
  • 2/2 piece T2?
  • Draconic?
  • Infernal?
  • CN non-set pieces?
  • SoT rings/neck?

What's best enchantment slots?
  • Brutal?
  • Savage?
  • Dark?
  • Vorpal?
  • Soulforge?

I've been checking the forums and found plenty of info on level 70s and PC version - but minimal discussion XB1 gear.
Post edited by sinibyte on

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    nvyeenvyee Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    24% ArmP, rest power
    And I would say Swashbuckler for Pve
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I went with 2/2 piece armor for T1 (Master Duelist and Elusive Agent for 400 crit and 400 recovery, respectively), but I use the whole Swashbuckling Captain set from T2. The set bonuses of a flat 450 recovery and stackable 400 power and 400 recovery on power use (30% proc) are perfect for me. It works so well for my build, and it was taking so long to farm (20 T2 runs and didn't find anything but rings, belts and necklaces in the chests), that I gave in and spent some of my millions of AD and just bought the whole set. I also liked the Draconic set bonuses (stats aren't bad either), but it's crazy hard to get. I check all the time (because it would be a cool alternate set), but as of last night you can't even buy the whole set it in the AH. There are tons of bracers and boots, but the armor and head pieces are nowhere to be found. You'll be waiting a while if you try for that set. The infernal stuff didn't interest me too much.

    I also have a rank 18 Twined Rope of Dexterity artifact belt (long way to go leveling it up). Of the artifact belts I'm aware of I think it's the best for TRs, but you'll have to grind dragons or pay almost 1m AD to get it. I've been lucky with dragons and got both the belt and the Rod of Imperial Restraint as drops. Although I have fought about 400 dragons at this point, so maybe it was more work/patience than luck.

    As for rings/neck, I'm wearing the Icy Amulet of Hrimnir, Frozen Ring of Hrimnir, and Glacial Ring of Hrimnir at the moment. They each give 60 to every stat, so 180 per stat total, and give 600 HP and 60 movement as a set. I'm pretty sure it's not the best choice, but they dropped and I have the whole set, so why not, right? I had two of the three SoT drops (Burning Necklace of the Shore and Barbaric Ring of the Shore), but I sold them because I really don't need to stack more power and I get critical, recovery, and armor penetration other ways (see below). I actually got and subsequently sold the necklace three times, but I've still yet to even see Harrl's Treatise on Dragonkind drop in almost 200 runs though...

    I use a Lesser Soulforged enchantment in my armor. The thing has saved my butt countless times, and I can't see myself using anything else for the foreseeable future. After looking at the stats on the higher tier Soulforged, I don't think it's worth the cost to upgrade. The cooldown (90 seconds) doesn't change, and the differences in HP after revival are negligible. I'm fine with using a potion after it procs to save hundreds of thousands of AD. I made a normal Vorpal (rank 8) and a normal Plague Fire (rank 9) from AH profits, tried both, and ended up selling the Vorpal (500k!). I really like the Plague Fire and will probably upgrade it for even more target defense reduction, but I play PvE almost exclusively, so your mileage may vary.

    As for gem enchantments, I use rank 7 Darks in my head and feet utility slots for movement boosts and rank 7 Radiant in my arm utility slot for gold gain, but sometimes I swap all of those for Lesser Dragon's Hoard enchantments to farm refinement mats. I use Rank 7 Silvery in my armor defensive slots for deflection and rank 7 Dark in my gemmed pants for life steal. All of my six offensive slots are rank 7 Savage for critical and armor penetration. I used to have rank 7 Azure in three and rank 7 Dark in the other three, but the Rank 7 Savages provide more total than having three of each (three Azure is 450 critical, three Dark is 450 arm-pen, but six Savages is 600 crit and 600 arm-pen). I also have an Ioun Stone stacked with two rank 7 Eldritch runes in offensive slots (arm-pen), one Arcane Rune in the defensive slot (deflection), and a ring, necklace, and icon that all grant some combination of power, critical, and armor penetration, two of which have rank 7 Savage and one with rank 7 Dark.

    As far as stats go, I stopped worrying about power after 4k. It doesn't do much in terms of total damage past that point unless you really stack it. I just don't think it's worth it. It's really the same with critical too, but I have that at close to 4.5k (47% critical chance). My armor penetration and recovery are both around 2500, beating the mob defense soft cap with 25% and granting fairly quick cooldowns. On the defensive side I'm stacking life steal and deflection. I have about between 1500-2000 in each, which works well enough.

    Now, I'm no NW expert. I never played it on the PC side or anything, but I am very analytical and have done a bunch of testing with different stat stacks. In my experience, and for my build (Master Infiltrator Executioner), stat priority is power > crit > arm-pen > recovery until you hit 4k power. After that, I find prioritizing crit > arm-pen > recovery > power to be the most effective, but stop stacking arm-pen once you hit around 24%. I don't worry at all about the defense stat because high-level mobs are going right through my defense just as I'm going right through theirs. Deflection is a much better choice than defense to stack on the defensive side. You get a chance to completely avoid 75% of all the damage with deflection, which works really well. I tried both regen and life steal and life steal works better. The caveat with life steal, however, is that it's only effective if you do a lot of damage. I do a lot of damage.

    Regarding damage, your base weapon damage is the biggest contributor to your actual damage. Power augments base weapon damage. If you stack power but your weapons do low damage, the power is basically wasted. So when choosing weapons, I think it's best to choose higher damage over any other stat bonus.

    Final note: My build is for PvE. I have no idea if it works well in PvP as I've only played a few round of PvP, and that was at low level. If you're looking for a PvE build that kicks butt though (consistently top dungeon/skirmish leaderboards in damage/kills), I can share the whole build.
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    devilslettucedevilslettuce Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    good information hezer0flux! I'm just about to hit level 60, id be interested to know your build. cheers
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    diver690diver690 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux wrote: »
    Editing for space, quoting so we know who I'm responding to.

    Why are you thinking Plaguefire over Vorpal? I'm curious here since I've seen a couple people say Plaguefire but with no numbers to substantiate it. All I can find is information from the PC version that said once Plaguefire stopped stacking with other people and became defense not pure mitigation that vorpal outdoes it. It's from 2013 and the PC version so I'm wondering if there are numbers somewhere that show xbox is on the pre-patched version or what? I linked the thread for reference

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?305222-Plague-Fire-or-Vorpal
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    diver690 wrote: »
    Why are you thinking Plaguefire over Vorpal? I'm curious here since I've seen a couple people say Plaguefire but with no numbers to substantiate it. All I can find is information from the PC version that said once Plaguefire stopped stacking with other people and became defense not pure mitigation that vorpal outdoes it. It's from 2013 and the PC version so I'm wondering if there are numbers somewhere that show xbox is on the pre-patched version or what? I linked the thread for reference

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?305222-Plague-Fire-or-Vorpal
    From the thread you linked (emphasis added):
    thedeadstar wrote: »
    So your crits stays almost the same nevermind if you use vorpal or PF, but for your team PF is better. And as said above, I didn't calculated the weapon dmg bonus of PF in it and the dot, which will result in higher dmg then vorpal. Addionally it also boosts all non crits which makes it superior to vorpal.

    Vorpal is only interesting for PvP first hits e.g. leashing blade opener out of stealth, PF stack doesn't work on first hit dmg though.
    I don't play PvP, and my testing of the two in PvE proved PF to be superior. The PF defense debuff, plus my stat stack's defense debuff, plus my WR, plus the added damage of the burn was just consistently better than what the Vorpal could offer. The vorpal only works on crits, and despite having a 47% crit chance, not all my hits are criticals because, as an executioner, I can't stay in stealth 100% of the time. The PF effect always procs -- and it gets better the more party members who use it.
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    diver690diver690 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux wrote: »
    From the thread you linked (emphasis added):


    I don't play PvP, and my testing of the two in PvE proved PF to be superior. The PF defense debuff, plus my stat stack's defense debuff, plus my WR, plus the added damage of the burn was just consistently better than what the Vorpal could offer. The vorpal only works on crits, and despite having a 47% crit chance, not all my hits are criticals because, as an executioner, I can't stay in stealth 100% of the time. The PF effect always procs -- and it gets better the more party members who use it.

    Except if you look at the edit he made to the post you actually quoted that was pre-patch. He goes on to edit and say's vorpal is superior.
    thedeadstar wrote: »
    Updated due to recent Patch Notes. Guess Vorpal all the way now without discussion-.- **** it.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I still think the fact vorpal only procs on crit while PF always procs makes the PF better. When I tested both I consistently did more damage with the PF than with the Vorpal. The vorpal would hit harder at times, but over the course of a fight/dungeon/skirmish, the PF did more total damage. I tested by recording footage of various fights/runs with the same group with both enchantments and tallying my damage numbers. I also used the end of dungeon/skirmish leaderboard as a secondary measure. In no case did the vorpal net more damage overall than the PF.
    EDIT 1

    Also, it seems the patch/nerf didn't actually take place... at least not the nerf everyone expected. It looks like it was an overreaction. See this thread:
    axer128 wrote: »
    Functions as gunba has noted. Though no longer stacks if multiple party members use it also.

    Very weird the descrip still wasn't updated.

    Still a very powerful enchant. Best in the game for at least one of your 5 party members.

    Very easy test too - hit a training dummy. They have zero defense. You'll see bracketed figures right away on the very first swing (the debuff applies before your first hit damage even).
    Worth noting this post is after the final post in the thread you linked. It seems all that changed is PF doesn't have the party stack. That's fine. PF still produces more overall damage for me than vorpal. This information lines up with my tests as well. I was seeing higher damage in my tests even though I was the only party member using it, so even post-patch it's still great for sustained damage rather than high damage spikes (one shots). I never even got to try the party damage stacking. In any case, I'd much rather have sustained high damage since I'm a PvE player, which is why I chose the PF and sold the vorpal.
    EDIT 2

    Just saw this in another thread in this forum:
    sudnd3th wrote: »
    yes [the PF SoD bug] did [make it to XB1[ sadly, was told about it by another TR and had to test it out for myself and it is here, had a lesser vorp before and picked up a plaguefire and the -3k damage by the initial hit with the vorp on was nothing compared to what i gained when SoD went off.
    SoD is a huge part of why my PF did more overall damage than the vorpal, and apparently that's some sort of bug carried over from PC. (I kind of think it's not a bug if they haven't fixed it, not to mention SoD is supposed to stack unblockable damage, but I digress.) The PF works better for me, a PvE TR MI Executioner build designed to maximize the effectiveness of Lurker's Assault, Shocking Execution (often followed by LA due to instant AP refill) and SoD. When everything works out and I get to use everything I have in the right order, which happens more often than I originally thought it would, I absolutely crush everything. T2 boss health bars go down 1/4, almost any add or small group of adds will be obliterated, and I puree any lesser mobs as I walk through them. And, of course, I top the damage/kills leaderboards at the end of runs.

    Oh, and my life steal goes through the roof. My health bar pegs full while I'm in full damage mode. That was an unexpected bonus.
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    diver690diver690 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    FWIW I'm not arguing for Vorpal just trying to get information that's better than conjecture. I'll take plaguefire out for a spin I have a lesser in my bank right now, I might see if its worthwhile to get it to the greater level my Vorpal is, If It's the right mix I'll gladly make the AD back selling the Vorpal.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Oh, I didn't think you were advocating either way. I found the discussion interesting and you post had me looking into why I saw better performance from the PF than the Vorpal when I tried them.
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    devilslettucedevilslettuce Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux what do you use for your weapons? Ive heard that Master Assassins Daggers are a good choice..
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I use an Epic level Golden Dragon's Claw in the main hand and a Master Assassin's Ornate Dagger in the off hand.
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    devilslettucedevilslettuce Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What's your full build thezer0flux?
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I'll take some screenshots tonight and post them up.
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    sinibytesinibyte Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux wrote: »
    Oh, I didn't think you were advocating either way. I found the discussion interesting and you post had me looking into why I saw better performance from the PF than the Vorpal when I tried them.

    I'm debating swapping my vorpal out for the Delzoun enchantment.

    http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Brilliant_Energy_Enchantment#Miscellaneous_Enchantments

    "You have a 30% chance to deal 12.5% of weapon damage as Radiant damage with every strike. This damage ignores half of your target's Damage Resistances."

    Seems like it has potential (if it procs from DF). I'll post my success or fail.
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    blkwhoblkwho Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux wrote: »
    I'll take some screenshots tonight and post them up.

    cant wait!!
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    sinibytesinibyte Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Anyone want to weigh in on which artifact belt would be better? I'm debating between DEX and STR. Leaning towards STR, as I have plenty of crit, and stealth crits - and STR would be a direct damage boost.
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    munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    sinibyte wrote: »
    I'm debating swapping my vorpal out for the Delzoun enchantment.

    http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Brilliant_Energy_Enchantment#Miscellaneous_Enchantments

    "You have a 30% chance to deal 12.5% of weapon damage as Radiant damage with every strike. This damage ignores half of your target's Damage Resistances."

    Seems like it has potential (if it procs from DF). I'll post my success or fail.

    Lets say you have an epic lvl Artifact weapon. 514dmg. That's 64.25 dmg, at a "chance" of 30%. That damage is pitiful my friend. It ignores half damage resistance, but can be deflected.

    For example if you hit my TR with that artifact. I have a 72% deflect chance in stealth, at 75% Deflect Severity. That means IF it procs, and you hit me, you will be doing 16 damage. That's also not counting my actual Damage Resistance. It will be even less if you figure that in.

    Having even a lesser vorpal will be better than the Brilliant. It looks fancy, but its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> compared to a Vorpal.

    I highly recommend not changing my friend.
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    munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux wrote: »
    Plaguefire -and it gets better the more party members who use it.

    Plaguefire doesn't stack.
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    munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    thezer0flux wrote: »
    I still think the fact vorpal only procs on crit while PF always procs makes the PF better. When I tested both I consistently did more damage with the PF than with the Vorpal. The vorpal would hit harder at times, but over the course of a fight/dungeon/skirmish, the PF did more total damage. I tested by recording footage of various fights/runs with the same group with both enchantments and tallying my damage numbers. I also used the end of dungeon/skirmish leaderboard as a secondary measure. In no case did the vorpal net more damage overall than the PF.
    EDIT 1

    Also, it seems the patch/nerf didn't actually take place... at least not the nerf everyone expected. It looks like it was an overreaction. See this thread:


    Worth noting this post is after the final post in the thread you linked. It seems all that changed is PF doesn't have the party stack. That's fine. PF still produces more overall damage for me than vorpal. This information lines up with my tests as well. I was seeing higher damage in my tests even though I was the only party member using it, so even post-patch it's still great for sustained damage rather than high damage spikes (one shots). I never even got to try the party damage stacking. In any case, I'd much rather have sustained high damage since I'm a PvE player, which is why I chose the PF and sold the vorpal.
    EDIT 2

    Just saw this in another thread in this forum:


    SoD is a huge part of why my PF did more overall damage than the vorpal, and apparently that's some sort of bug carried over from PC. (I kind of think it's not a bug if they haven't fixed it, not to mention SoD is supposed to stack unblockable damage, but I digress.) The PF works better for me, a PvE TR MI Executioner build designed to maximize the effectiveness of Lurker's Assault, Shocking Execution (often followed by LA due to instant AP refill) and SoD. When everything works out and I get to use everything I have in the right order, which happens more often than I originally thought it would, I absolutely crush everything. T2 boss health bars go down 1/4, almost any add or small group of adds will be obliterated, and I puree any lesser mobs as I walk through them. And, of course, I top the damage/kills leaderboards at the end of runs.

    Oh, and my life steal goes through the roof. My health bar pegs full while I'm in full damage mode. That was an unexpected bonus.

    You are doing more damage with the Plaguefire because of the bug with Shadow of Demise.

    If you weren't aware: Using a DoT based weapon enchant(plaguefire), SoD will proc for 100% damage..instead of 50%. It isn't working properly and will be getting fixed.

    I recommend not using it, because you are going to be so used to the damage you do with it, when they fix it your damage will literally be cut in almost half.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Nah, I'll still keep PF over Vorpal after they fix it, if only for the debuff.
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    sinibytesinibyte Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    munkey81 wrote: »
    Lets say you have an epic lvl Artifact weapon. 514dmg. That's 64.25 dmg, at a "chance" of 30%. That damage is pitiful my friend. It ignores half damage resistance, but can be deflected.

    For example if you hit my TR with that artifact. I have a 72% deflect chance in stealth, at 75% Deflect Severity. That means IF it procs, and you hit me, you will be doing 16 damage. That's also not counting my actual Damage Resistance. It will be even less if you figure that in.

    Having even a lesser vorpal will be better than the Brilliant. It looks fancy, but its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> compared to a Vorpal.

    I highly recommend not changing my friend.

    I actually tested it on my wizard - and yes the damage was pitiful, my vorpal will remain.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    sinibyte wrote: »
    Anyone want to weigh in on which artifact belt would be better? I'm debating between DEX and STR. Leaning towards STR, as I have plenty of crit, and stealth crits - and STR would be a direct damage boost.
    Good question.

    I got the Twined Rope of Dexterity as a drop, so I kept it. It's currently at rare, but I'm not sure it's doing much. Yeah, my DEX is at 28, but I wasn't really hurting in that area before. I'm considering getting the Girdle of Strength to boost my damage output, so I'd like to know what some other TRs think as well.
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    sinibytesinibyte Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I'm pushing about 45% crit right now (and 100% stealth and stun) - so the added crit bonus (DEX) might not be as valuable as a direct damage boost (STR)- we already crit hard and often, so increasing the numbers of those crits (and boosting at-wills) 100% of the time should be a better choice. This is my current justification - but I'm still hoping to hear other opinions.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I actually wonder if high crit chance matters at all on TRs since we get 100% crit all the time from our stealth. I've considered mucking with my enchantments/augmentation companion to lower my crit in favor of life steal, recovery, deflection, or power. I'm thinking that about a 25%-30% critical chance is probably good enough for TRs, and we can do that without much additional stat stacking. Maybe we can get more bang for our buck, as it were, by spending points elsewhere. What do you think?
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    munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    My personal opinion is a TR should never worry about Crit gear, or gem for Crit.

    STR/CHA, STR/DEX - Nothing else really matters.

    Have at least 30% crit(which you will no madder what gear you use), get 25-28% Armor Pen, then stack Power or Recovery.

    I see TR's all the time with 3,000+ crit and all Azure enchants...with 500 Armor Pen. Makes me sad for them.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    That's what I suspected -- my crit is probably too high. My armor penetration is just about right though. I'm going to mess around with enchants and drop crit in favor of other stuff and see what happens.
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    upinyaslayinupinyaslayin Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I started my build going for armor pen and crit strike, paid the 15 bucks to respec it more towards power and recovery, my damage went way up. Also I run full AOE/DOT powers now and my damage went up.
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    thezer0fluxthezer0flux Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Power without armor penetration is power wasted. The first stat to stack in the current mod is always armor penetration until you hit 24% resistance ignored. Failing to do so results in a significant damage debuff when running end game content.
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    billchebillche Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    What I'd consider ideal:

    Swashbuckling Captain's Helmet
    +Greater Dragon Hoard Enchantment

    Swashbuckling Captain's Armor
    +Draconic Enchantment, Rank 10
    +Perfect Soulforged Enchantment

    Swashbuckling Captain's Bracers
    +Greater Dragon Hoard Enchantment

    Horn of the Golden Dragon (Legendary)
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10
    +Greater Plague Fire
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10

    Draconic Stiletto
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10

    Swashbuckling Captain's Boots
    +Greater Dragon Hoard Enchantment

    Personalized Necklace of Revitalization
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10
    +Draconic Enchantment, Rank 10

    Personalized Archmage's Ring
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10
    +Draconic Enchantment, Rank 10

    Personalized Archmage's Ring
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10
    +Draconic Enchantment, Rank 10

    Girdle of Strength (legendary)
    +Greater Dragon Hoard Enchantment
    +Draconic Enchantment, Rank 10

    Gemmed Exquisite Shirt
    +Black Ice Enchantment, Rank 10

    Gemmed Exquisite Pants
    +Draconic Enchantment, Rank 10

    Lantern of Revelation (legendary)
    Belial's Portal Stone (legendary)
    Lostmauth's Horn of Blasting (legendary)

    Regardless of all your other base roll stats, you'll get the following from this set:
    Power:6300+
    Crit: 2900+
    Recovery: 1500+
    Arpen: 1700+
    Life Steal: 1700+

    Fill in the gaps (ie getting arpen to 24%) with your companion and active bonuses.
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