Is Archery not viable anymore?

munkey81 · May 2015

On PC I played an Archery spec'd HR and did very well with it. DPS and survivability in PvP and PvE was insane.

For node contention I put on my regen gear and had around 2300 regen per tick at the highest, could hold a node all day long against extremely high geared characters.

The FOTM seemed to be the combat spec at that time but there was very few people that could beat me in a 1 vs 1. I stayed Archery spec'd from day 1 and loved it.

10-20k crits all day long in PvP.

Off the top of my head my stats were around; 36%crit, 29%ArP, 28% defense, 42% deflect, 31k health.

I haven't made my HR yet on Xbox so not sure exactly whats changed since I played my HR. I'm under the understanding that there were minor changes. For example, roots were fixed/changed. That is the only drastic change that I am aware of. Please correct me you HR's if I am wrong.

If you would watch this video and compare it for me please as to what Archery HR's can do now. I know Trappers are powerful and the skilled ones are personally my hardest fight vs my TR. I have yet to run into an Archery spec and that is what I'm curious about. Archery spec was insane if played and geared right, I compared it to a ranged TR honestly for the damage output and survivability.

Heres the vid guys, hook me up with some knowledge, I fully plan on making another Archery spec HR

https://youtu.be/dt6RvG0Q7SE

strictlyevil · May 2015

As a PC player who moved to Xbox I can tell you from first hand experience that most of this archery hating has nothing to do with the class and is mostly due to speculation and ignorance. A properly played Archery HR that is built right will do just as fine as any other class. Console players just don't get that it's all about the player not the class. A good player playing an Archery HR beats out a mediocre player with another class any day of the week.

Though after having said that, it does seem that something has been changed with the HR since Xbox release but not by nearly enough to say they aren't a viable class option.

munkey81 · May 2015

strictlyevil wrote: »

As a PC player who moved to Xbox I can tell you from first hand experience that most of this archery hating has nothing to do with the class and is mostly due to speculation and ignorance. A properly played Archery HR that is built right will do just as fine as any other class. Console players just don't get that it's all about the player not the class. A good player playing an Archery HR beats out a mediocre player with another class any day of the week.

Though after having said that, it does seem that something has been changed with the HR since Xbox release but not by nearly enough to say they aren't a viable class option.

See that's the same opinion I have. Even on PC most players didn't use Archery as the fotm was combat, but I was constantly having people send me tells asking for my build because I was crapping on 99% of players, and no one could come even close in PvE damage, except a well played CW.

I'll definitely be playing Archery spec on Xbox.

trappy1026 · May 2015

I really want to respec to archery to see how it goes in pvp, it's just that i've already ran combat and back to trapper and respec'd trapper again, I just can't keep "trying" new respecs because it costs so much

For PvP, Archer would definitely be viable imo. Some of those feats are straight up bonkers and I wish I could get some of them on my trapper.

There's a second level (heightwise) in every pvp map, and part of me feels that they were made for long range characters, although I rarely see people pew pewing (successfully) from up there. If I was an Archer, I'd obviously want to max your distance for max damage, (iirc some of the feats, if I'm wrong, my bad) and those areas of the arena offer that.

Aimed shot on my Trapper already crits for 23~K. On my trapper. On the Archer, if you stealth and nail some aimed shots onto a Prey'd enemy, they're gonna have a tough time surviving.

quafflicious · May 2015

As of right now on the Xbox1, archery is the weaker of all three specs. It has little to no survivability in PVP and in PVE it is only single target dps. If you say you top the charts with archery in PVE then you are running with some very very very very bad players. Honestly they need to buff archery so hunters can provide some great single target dps.

strictlyevil · May 2015

If you think topping the paingiver charts is what makes a good dps then you're mistaken. Each class has it's own function in a dungeon and you don't have to get the best damage in a dungeon to be a much needed dps. If a well built/well played CW and a well built/well played Archery HR go into a dungeon together the CW will almost always paingiver. That doesn't mean the CW is a better class than the HR it just means they are fulfilling two completely different roles. The CW will always get more damage due to its role of taking out adds and controlling whereas the CW will do nowhere near as much damage on elites and bosses as the HR this of course depends on the dungeon as well. A dungeon with few adds and more elites and high hp bosses will end up with the CW losing in paIngiver to the HR.

But I do believe something was changed to make them weaker I just can't put my finger on it as I didn't play an HR long enough on PC to do any testing. I would agree that some buffs are in order but not to the extent that the majority of the console players believe are needed.

rayrdan · May 2015

have fun with those cooldowns.
hr base damage is the lowest as trapper at least you can spam them
archery never was and never will be viable

everything seems nice in your video because you dont even fight on the node...which is the rule n 1.

quafflicious · May 2015

strictlyevil wrote: »

If you think topping the paingiver charts is what makes a good dps then you're mistaken. Each class has it's own function in a dungeon and you don't have to get the best damage in a dungeon to be a much needed dps. If a well built/well played CW and a well built/well played Archery HR go into a dungeon together the CW will almost always paingiver. That doesn't mean the CW is a better class than the HR it just means they are fulfilling two completely different roles. The CW will always get more damage due to its role of taking out adds and controlling whereas the CW will do nowhere near as much damage on elites and bosses as the HR this of course depends on the dungeon as well. A dungeon with few adds and more elites and high hp bosses will end up with the CW losing in paIngiver to the HR.

But I do believe something was changed to make them weaker I just can't put my finger on it as I didn't play an HR long enough on PC to do any testing. I would agree that some buffs are in order but not to the extent that the majority of the console players believe are needed.

Honestly, besides bringing in massive AoE damage and their roots, Trappers bring jack-squat to the party. Archery, however, brings in so many ways to debuff the target that it's ridiculous. The only problem is that their DPS is utter trash as Archery.

trappy1026 · May 2015

Have you looked at the feats yet?

I guarantee if I respecced my 15K HR to archery he would single target out DPS a trapper.

Trapper don't bring anything except damage? We slow enemies down with fox's shift, IMMOBILIZE up to 5 enemies at a time with the roots, and we have one of the best encounters in the game: Fox's Cunning. A free incoming hit, for all teammates, every 3/4 seconds.

Not to mention Hunter's Teamwork being spammed on mobs heals the whole team for around 1k HP everytime someone picks up the potion.

Edit: Only thing I can't comment on for Archery is the cooldowns, but I gather your target would be already debuffed and very open to being abused by Aimed /Rapid shot for pretty decent damage (40% from prey, increased crits, etc)

munkey81 · May 2015

rayrdan wrote: »

have fun with those cooldowns.
hr base damage is the lowest as trapper at least you can spam them
archery never was and never will be viable

everything seems nice in your video because you dont even fight on the node...which is the rule n 1.

I definately don't agree about Archery never being viable as I had great success with it and I know others that did as well.

As far as the video, Fighting on point is obviously the most important. I guess you didn't notice the fact my team had it 3 capped 99% of the match. Therefore pushing to the spawn point and forcing them to fight off point was the obvious tactic.

munkey81 · May 2015

quafflicious wrote: »

As of right now on the Xbox1, archery is the weaker of all three specs. It has little to no survivability in PVP and in PVE it is only single target dps. If you say you top the charts with archery in PVE then you are running with some very very very very bad players. Honestly they need to buff archery so hunters can provide some great single target dps.

I'm sorry but it seems like maybe you've never played an HR by your comments. Feats and gear account for a huge portion of a classes survivability.

Archers single target damage is the highest of the three paths, and I'm confused as to why you think archers have no AoE damage, as no madder the path, each one has the same options of encounters to use.

I guess I've gotten my answer though. Seems the Xbox community isn't much different than it was on PC. Fotm Trapper and nothing else. I'll be making my HR archery and I will be very surprised if I prove myself wrong.

silence1x · May 2015

My HR started with Archery in Dec 2013 and has never switched. I see no reason to switch to another path but I can understand why others would want to test out Trapper or Combat. I just like killing things at a distance too much

munkey81 · May 2015

silence1x wrote: »

My HR started with Archery in Dec 2013 and has never switched. I see no reason to switch to another path but I can understand why others would want to test out Trapper or Combat. I just like killing things at a distance too much

Yah I absolutely agree. Like I said currently a good Trapper HR is my hardest 1 vs 1.

I just wasn't sure if something drastic was changed since I played my HR on PC that I wasn't aware of. I looked through the NW Calc and didn't see anything that would cause me to NOT want to go Archery again. I feel like a well played, well built Archery spec was that special "hidden build" that no one knew about, or thought could be viable. So everyone reads the forums and followed all the fan boys playing Combat.

Just going to have to start my HR and see for myself. I highly doubt I'll be going Trapper, as I loved the playstyle of my Archery Spec.

strictlyevil · May 2015

It will do perfectly fine. The problem is that for as long as consoles have been around people have been given games that put them in god mode like scenarios that take 5 measly hours to complete whereas this game actually tests your ability, knowledge and skill as a player so when they see a class that doesn't give them that god like scenario it's assumed that it's not a viable option. As More MMO's hit consoles and more players move from PC to console I'm sure it will wither down some but only time will tell. Hell even on PC there are still plenty of people who don't know any better.

robertdiaz · May 2015

rayrdan wrote: »

have fun with those cooldowns.
hr base damage is the lowest as trapper at least you can spam them
archery never was and never will be viable

rayrdan is correct. archery doesn't work especially in pvp because if playing against good people they can and will jump in on you and ruin any range bonus you need as a base for your dps. aimed shot is too slow to be viable against someone good as you will get interrupted and wrecked before you can even react.

our class mechanic is all about switching stances and using the melee version of our moves as well. taking advantage of the range for archery means that you aren't using half your moves-- it just isn't optimal.

i'd say warlock & archery are similar concepts-- yea, you can play one, and if your team dominates you will win. but it doesn't mean you aren't handicapping yourself compared to playing another class/build that can do everything much better.

strictlyevil · May 2015

We've already established that it's not the best option for some scenarios. The point is that it is a viable option if it is what you enjoy playing. I play solely on my CW for the most part and I enjoy the Renegade path. As far as I know it isn't be best option with current Xbox content but it's what I enjoy and what I'm used to and it is still completely viable. Just because it isn't what most consider the best doesn't mean it won't be a nice addition to the team. If you can beat the dungeons or do well in PVP with the class then it is a perfectly good choice for some. Just because it doesn't score number 1 on the charts every single time it comes onto the field doesn't mean it shouldn't be played by someone who enjoys it.

robertdiaz · May 2015

strictlyevil wrote: »

We've already established that it's not the best option for some scenarios. The point is that it is a viable option if it is what you enjoy playing. I play solely on my CW for the most part and I enjoy the Renegade path. As far as I know it isn't be best option with current Xbox content but it's what I enjoy and what I'm used to and it is still completely viable. Just because it isn't what most consider the best doesn't mean it won't be a nice addition to the team. If you can beat the dungeons or do well in PVP with the class then it is a perfectly good choice for some. Just because it doesn't score number 1 on the charts every single time it comes onto the field doesn't mean it shouldn't be played by someone who enjoys it.

spellstorm renegade is actually considered the best cw option on xbox right now and is what the top pvp cw's run as their path.

archery conflicts with our class mechanic which is why it doesn't work. it's not about "what most consider the best" but "why". of course you should play what you enjoy, but i believe the OP was asking if it was viable, and by definition viable means capable of working successfully; feasible. I consider "success" in this game as the ability to compete at a top level against top-tier players.

if you play both archery and trapper you will quickly understand why trapper is just much, much better and how there isn't even a real choice in the build we can play to be truly effective.

munkey81 · May 2015

robertdiaz wrote: »

rayrdan is correct. archery doesn't work especially in pvp because if playing against good people they can and will jump in on you and ruin any range bonus you need as a base for your dps. aimed shot is too slow to be viable against someone good as you will get interrupted and wrecked before you can even react.

our class mechanic is all about switching stances and using the melee version of our moves as well. taking advantage of the range for archery means that you aren't using half your moves-- it just isn't optimal.

I think that's the misconception of Archery. It isn't required to be extremely far away, to get the best out of the build. All the feats for Archery increase range dmg encounters, as well as power/crit Sev bonus's and massive reduction in CD for ranged. If you chose feat Stillness of the Forest, you will do 10% more damage at max range, decreasing the closer you get. Is it a wasted feat? Absolutely not, because there are plenty of times in every single match, where your damage will have been increased starting at 0%, up to 10.

Aimed Shot is extremely slow absolutely and its very situational. Only a fool would use it on someone while not hidden, or obviously not focusing you. But that with Split Shot is what I ran for at-wills and it worked very well.

I switched up my encounters of course depending who I was fighting but generally I ran Fox, Hindering, Constricting, - DS/Forest, and Falcon/Lone Wolf

Either way I'm going to check it out, I'll be the first one to admit if I'm wrong and I value your opinion on HR's more than anyone. I definitely am one to rather discover for myself though.

j0kerspsycho · May 2015

munkey81 wrote: »

I think that's the misconception of Archery. It isn't required to be extremely far away, to get the best out of the build. All the feats for Archery increase range dmg encounters, as well as power/crit Sev bonus's and massive reduction in CD for ranged. If you chose feat Stillness of the Forest, you will do 10% more damage at max range, decreasing the closer you get. Is it a wasted feat? Absolutely not, because there are plenty of times in every single match, where your damage will have been increased starting at 0%, up to 10.

Aimed Shot is extremely slow absolutely and its very situational. Only a fool would use it on someone while not hidden, or obviously not focusing you. But that with Split Shot is what I ran for at-wills and it worked very well.

I switched up my encounters of course depending who I was fighting but generally I ran Fox, Hindering, Constricting, - DS/Forest, and Falcon/Lone Wolf

Either way I'm going to check it out, I'll be the first one to admit if I'm wrong and I value your opinion on HR's more than anyone. I definitely am one to rather discover for myself though.

I dont think that its not viable, its just not optimum. Can you kill people with archery build? Yes, you can kill anyone with any build. But for clearing a point or fighting 1v1 i think that trapper would be better. Archery doesnt have a spot imo, combat gives good node holding and healing (says some, have yet to try it) and trapper gives mad damage and node clearing. Archery is kinda meh in both reguards, guess they could sit up high and pew pew, but in higher level play thats not gonna cut it.

katozee · May 2015

My viewpoint on the matter is that the negative stigma to HR on the console generation is derived from the vast majority of players creating an archer calling him legolas and thinking thats it. The rest of the party then proceed to see him running away, dying, making clerics chase after them, making tanks chase after the mobs they pulled. I have a poorly geared DC that outdamages archery builds when I switch to dps encounters and I don't even have weapon enchants or armour ones.

Combat is still great for PvP in full profound, trapper is universal apex build for all players and thats the key right there. "for all players". The guide I wrote is based for neutrality and utmost simplicity, that anyone can play it at any GS. Archery path is viable though only for those with a high degree of skill and knowledge of the game and more often a really good GS to help the build.

That being said any class build is viable with the right skill level to pull it off. To play as an archer you really do have to akin it to a sniper in the sense that you really need to have a good oversight on the battlefield, a good sense to pick your targets otherwise you will just draw everything and have the rest of the party staring daggers at you.

Edit: Thats what makes the so called FotM builds that someone mentioned in previous responses. The fact that anyone who takes the information and uses the encounters as outlined can become deadly, within seconds of using the build. Those not dedicated to a build will just drift from FotM to the next. Dedication and determination to further expand your knowledge and seek synergy amongst fellow party members can make any build extremely viable.

Its why TR remains the dominant PvP FotM, since with that many dazing/stun encounters anyone can win under those conditions. Its also why I get hate mail for when I take on three TR as a trapper and still win, there is no skill in stunning someone for 6+ seconds its the same as turning them into a training dummy. Its also the reason why I dislike pvp, because when you exercise a small medium of skill and triumph over someone who just plays a FotM with no real desire or dertimination to refine his build you are met with abuse.

You asked if archery is viable, in short its the player that makes it viable not the build. Is archery a build for the masses that won't put the dedication into raising that GS? My answer would be no. Have I met an archery build yet that made me think "wow"? Also no, so I would look foward to running a dungeon some day just to see how an archery build can perform.

Why did I pick trapper? Well historically I have always enjoyed DoT builds in MMO's and when compared to the DoT's of other classes and how frequently I can apply them, trapper was my choice.

Is Archery not viable anymore?

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