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Tiamat dificulty level discussion
malemon
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 32
As we all know Tiamat is a Dragon Godess, aka she is suposed to be hard to deal with. Altho at the moment, with right people and organisation its still extremly easy to kill her (we almost nuked her down in 1st phase one time, and yes im talking about mod 6 tiamat).
What i suggest is following:
Instead of making dificulty of Tiamat easier, make entry Total Item Level requirement 2700 and enable players to make parties to enter together. Or if you got time, raids even.
I have my own channel and we decided to try tiamat together. Once 20 of us came into same instance, Tiamat was easier than Heroic encounter.
Other in last post about this also suggested 2 different difficulties of tiamat, epic and normal version, with epic having the current "mod 6" difficulty. Also change in rewards would be wellcome. Maybe elven gear, or more dragon eggs / higher level ressonance stones.
About Feytouched enchantment exploits: I banned using feytouched enchantment from our channel runs, since it causes random anomalies, buffing mobs and tiamat heads. Biggest hit we recored with ACT on tank was 700 milions from black head bite. If you wanna do tiamat, i suggest you dont use Feytouched. True it gives you insane damage, but one man cannot win a war.
What i suggest is following:
Instead of making dificulty of Tiamat easier, make entry Total Item Level requirement 2700 and enable players to make parties to enter together. Or if you got time, raids even.
I have my own channel and we decided to try tiamat together. Once 20 of us came into same instance, Tiamat was easier than Heroic encounter.
Other in last post about this also suggested 2 different difficulties of tiamat, epic and normal version, with epic having the current "mod 6" difficulty. Also change in rewards would be wellcome. Maybe elven gear, or more dragon eggs / higher level ressonance stones.
About Feytouched enchantment exploits: I banned using feytouched enchantment from our channel runs, since it causes random anomalies, buffing mobs and tiamat heads. Biggest hit we recored with ACT on tank was 700 milions from black head bite. If you wanna do tiamat, i suggest you dont use Feytouched. True it gives you insane damage, but one man cannot win a war.
Post edited by malemon on
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At the moment, only rewards that can increase your battle capatibility are elemtal epic set parts, that are easy to get from T2 dungeons.
We only do tiamat for rewards such as artifacts and eggs at the moment, so we can make some profit out of doing it. If the difficulty of tiamat goes down, everyone will get those artifacts with ease, thus making them worthless as AD resource. Ressonance stones, dragon eggs and such on the other hand can be used in many different ways, making them valuable items for usage or selling.
So if reward for doign tiamat would be blue ressonance stone and epic one / dragon egg in 1/10 tries that would make it great.
Even if rewards don't change, we still gonna do it for fun tho.
The reason for 2700 gear score entry requirement is simple: if you dont have at least blue lvl 70 t1 gear, you get 1 shot by everything in tiamat. 2700 Gear score is achieved by full rank 7 enchantments, blue T1 elemental gear, epic main + offhand lvl 70, epic arti neck and belt, and 4 epic artifacts. Such gear is not hard at all to get, should take you about 2 week if you are a regular player who plays around 2 - 3 hours a day.
If you are going to Tiamat with green gear, you are of no help, you are just being carried by us stronger people. And belive me, it sux when we look at ACT and see how 5 of us deal 100 mil+ dps, 5 of our channel tanks/healers deal 50 mil dps, and then there are people, who actualy deal less then 10 or even 5 mil dps.. If think you get my point. As high dps player, being in 100 mil damage group, i understand its hard to get there, but is not that hard to get to 50 - 100 mil group as DPS. I did it when my TIL was 2200. And with proper builds i belive others can too.
In adition, there is less and less AD sources in the game and sure you understand, everybody needs AD for improvements on gear.
That is a great idea. Killing tiamat to get some kind of camagin item a few times to unlock eTiamat sounds great. People would have to learn tactics.
Even addin like quest would be great. Pop each color of the gem once to protect people from breath in a winning tiamat to compleate quest. Only then you can go to eTiamat
That is total BS.
My Pally have "only" 2,4iL and yet these are his gear :
Head : Blue from T1 with R7 Azure/Dark
Body : Burning Armor with Greater Negation and R8 Radiant
Hand : Grim Medic Armor with R7 Brutal Enchant (sometime overload slot)
Legs : Burning Armor with R7 Brutal Enchant
Mainhand : Legendary Burning Mace with 2 x Dark R8 + Pure PlagueFire
Offhand + Belt + Neck : at epic level with R8 either Radiant or Dark/Brutal Encant
All Epic Artifact (with 80% to legendary on DC Sigil)
Boons : Shar at 3rd, DreadRing at 4th, ToD at 3rd, PvP at 2nd, IWD at 3rd
Those prove I showed you doesnt event hit 2,5K and yet you suggest 2,7K min iL? I acquired those gears with my Casual playtime (about roughly 2-3 hours for 5 days) for more than 1 year of playing (since mod 3-4 I think, cant really remember)
I know I already have most of my gear (just need to get 5th IWD boons + working on my encants and Im done) enough for current dungeons, but your statement are false and I just prove that.
IMHO, 2K or 2,2K iL would be much reasonable to do tiamat and make groups/party entry would make it more reasonable than just restricted it by iL only
If you block the content from majority of the players and instead throw more AD on BIS players it may lead to selling AD outside of the game. Everybody knows it already happen, but it may get even worse, since there will be demand for the items from Tiamath and BIS players dont really need AD anymore, so you're only asking for trouble.
If OP was concerned about the challenge itself, he would've ban all kind of enchants and rune stones not only feytouched, but they dont care about their own challenge, they just want to make it harder for others.
If OP was concerned with with usefulness of players with specific item level, he would suggest removing itemlvl from items that dont provide any dps or survivality yet boost itemlvl (for example DH enchants) There's also several other issues where for example blue belt from t1 dungeon / skirmishes give 130 item lvl while much better green artifact belt give only 120 item lvl. Now why should i make my character weaker just increase my item lvl? This is where these stupidly high limits will lead to. On the other hand i have all BIS passives unlocked for my Arti OH and this give me a lot of bonuses while it doesnt affect my itemlvl.
I wont even write much about all these stupid claims that you can get 2700 itemlvl in 2 weeks by playing casualy 2-3h per day, just LOL, unless you spend fortune and transfer it for AD. Any Dev can check my playtime and my items if you're curious how little can players achieve in m6 even when playing 8-14h per day without spending too many $.
What i originaly ment was, majority of players are too weak to even try tiamat as it is atm. Altho many of us can do it with ease due to our "uber gear" or howerver you want to call it. And this gear has nothing to do with donating and transfering our money to AD. Most of us (the ones who actualy win tiamat atm) are older players, starting back from beta or mod1.
But anyways, at start of mod6 i had 2700 TIL with aow gear, changed it to alliance and my gs dropped to 2400. Got all my 4 artifacts to legendary in that 2x rp week + get new rings, lostmauth set, new weapon set and Major/greater armor/jewlery kits, and my TIL is 3150 atm.
True i have all boons in game, but still i dont get it why I see people in tiamat with green lvl 62 gear, 1200 TIL and they always cry how hard is it. Its the most end game dungeon in the game.. you are suposed to have as much as possible be4 you start it. and if you play 8 - 14h a day and dont achieve maxed out character in 2 weeks (not including boons ofc) idk realy what you do man, it takes me 4 days to level up from 0 - 70, another day to get full alliance gear. I can easly farm 1 or 2 milions AD per day to buy all other stuff that i am missing, by farming refinement items, coffers, artifacts etc.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
If you dont get why low item lvl players get in to Tiamath, consider that those could be new players who had different experience with their previous games. There's also no min item lvl set yet, so everybody can enter, some people abuse it on purpose.
I think you dont understand this because you entered m6 with quite geared toon and some AD / Zen spare for decent items. You may get lvl70 in 4 days if you play during 2x XP event or / and buy yourself some dragon bone weapons or other scallable items and transfer some enchants to kill mobs faster, but normally it takes way longer. Once you reach 70 and get MH + OH you will have to spend few days pvping for the pvp set (as it gives more item lvl than blues from 3man dungeons) You gonna have only 1 artifact from the lvl21 quest, max at blue. R7 cost around 35-40k each and even with r7 slotted everywhere you gonna need to grind AD few days to buy the shirt + pants (around 50-60k each). After that point you might have enough itemlvl to join 1600 dungeons. Though you might have no keys to second chest if you didnt progress your campaigns.
For example, to get a Key for eLoL chest or Tuern you need to unlock 19x 20h missions each and have some AD + quest items to start the quest for the key.
You can also forget about enchants, unless you get lucky and drop coal ward from invoking chests, since better lessers start from ~270k AD+. Now depending on what class you play it might get easier or harder to get PvE t1 gear. Tanks and healers have it probably easiest as you can get away without enchants or expensive sets like LoL, but on dps you gonna be a lot behind geared toons so you will often get kicked. It's also a lot easier to find decent groups on these classes. My paladin can even carry some afkers and monkeys as long as i've AP DC in the party. Wth dps you gonna be forced to do PUGs mostly with people that somehow managed to enter with <25k max hp dying to globin farts every several seconds.
As to what takes me most time, it's: 4 different campaigns with plenty of dailies (about 90-120min for all), daily quest for AD (pvp ones can take up to 90-120min depending on luck with teams), skirmish around 1h if you get lucky and istance doesnt bug out. 4x Foundry (80-100 min max)1-2h for Dragon runs in WoD for belts and stuff. Rest of the time it's usually wasted in dungeons with some scrubs or instanced which bug out or even kick whole group for w/e reason. I play some on my alts to generate more AD, since most of my AD from main is used to buy campaign boons.
I already got the key to Valindras chest and soon gonna have for elol as well, so it's just a matter of luck with drops to get some valuable items. Im at ~2100 item lvl now and while i should be able to boost it to 2500 or so it wont be any serious survivality or dmg boost. As it is green full lol set would give me quite a lot of dps, but it would drop my itemlvl by around 100 if i would replace other worse items but with higher item lvl. Also keep in mind that new players wont have second artifact until get lvl at least one alt to lvl60 and do the quest or get lucky with drop from lockboxes or dungeons (which may take a lot of time).
Simply put as something I pointed to another thread like a month ago.. the issue is arp.ARP, ARP
They might be changing that, but at the moment thats why random groups arnt doing HAMSTER damage against the heads.
The rest of it isnt that much different honestly and hasnt been all that hard. Its just simply a matter of people rolling into this with JUST terrible arp and wasting everyones time.
It needs 60, so if your already optimal build of 40 for dps, you are in range and with other debuffs/buffs added you are doing ok.
Sadly, the vast majority of people entering have MUCH lower then 40, (even 35% would be ok) but we are talking about DPS toons in there sub 20. SUB 20!
Because it wasnt gated right, it wont be done by random queues. No amount of OPTIMISM will overcome simply math and game mechanics needed here.
we need a way to work up to an encounter with a demi-god
So what is the answer?
Urlord
In its current format there is no answer. Until the devs allow us to pre-form parties for Tiamat there will be more fails than wins simply put. Imagine if the ONLY option to do T1/T2 dungeons was through pugging alone, how many successful runs would one have compared to failed ones? Not many would be the correct answer.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
the system cannot handle 25 man parties sorry the devs have already stated this its not gonna happen.
the system as currently designed cant handle it.. but if they want to grow, they will have to suck it up and figure it out.
*Minimum scores would be calculated by your class. For example DPS would have to do "X" amount of dmg to the heads to get the rewards. It shouldn't be hard to achieve, but in the same time it should be a value which discourage players from afking.
I have a hard time believing your item level is only 2400 with all that. My GWF has full blue t1 alliance set, epic artifact belt and neck, all artifacts are epic, mainhand and offhand artifact weapons at epic, major armor hitpoint kits, major action point kits on neck, belt, rings, and gemmed shirt and pants, mostly rank 8 enchantments(i have one rank 9), and lesser dragon hoards in every utility slot and my item level is nearly 3.5.
try armor reinforcement kits, and craftable rings
http://i.imgur.com/L16LcSG.png
http://i.imgur.com/nexn6we.png
i didnt want to fill the page with links proving i have full rank 8s please just take my word for it or ask for it in a pm.
im working on getting jewelcrafting to 25 now its at 24.
i have epic arti main hand and off hand and belt. blue arti neck .epic pvp burning set and epic shirt and pants. mostly 8s enchatments couple lvl 7.3 epic artifacts and one legendary. enchants in all slots with overload slots and my gs on my cw is 2528.
Don't need to allow us to make 25-man parties - just 5-man parties, that will already help immeasurably. If this is allowed perhaps then we could actually attempt Tiamat 5/5 again. Only did it about 3 times very early on (won once). I always preferred the way it was meant to be done. At least we also get to play with friends in a party.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
you can switch instances to become in the same instance already. im sorry but i think thats as good as its gonna get.
Ah-ha! So I was right about my iLvl being lower than it should be. I'm wearing burning set + lol set everything in epic + many rank8s few rank7s + 3 legendary artis and 1 epic arti and I'm getting only 2.5k of iLvl. If what you said is correct then my iLvl is most definitely displaying wrong. Thanks for that and sorry for the offtopic!
OK I have 3 epic ariti one legend arti epic main and off hand and t1-t3 gear with mostly rank7 and a few rank 6 a greater vorpal and blue neck and belt now ik the neck ND belt aren't going to give me 200 IL at purple so