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Relentless Avenger: Oathbound Paladin Encounter Power
kurtb88
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 597 Arc User
My Oathbound Paladin took the Oath of Devotion. I am level 70 and concentrating on doing the dailies in Sharandar, Dread Ring, IWD, and WoD. As such I am constantly soloing and therefore I setup my character to do as much DPS as possible while still being able to survive.
The best balance for soloing seems to be using these powers:
At-Wills:
Encounter Powers:
Class Features:
Daily Powers:
An explanation of Relentless Avenger is shown in the screenshot below:
Click Image for Full-size
Everything works perfectly while soloing. It took me a while to get comfortable with this setup, but now I can solo everything without any trouble in Sharandar, Dread Ring, IWD, and WoD. IWD is still the hardest though, even fighting a couple bears or a group of trolls I am constantly one misclick away from death. But as long as I stay on my toes and use all my skills to stay healed I can survive.
Yet I still need to join a group in order to do the Heroic Encounter quest in IWD, the one in WoD, as well as the dungeon quests we get almost everyday in WoD: Drake Pens, Cult Prison, Thayan Magical Shelter, and the one Heroic Encounter quest to collect Missives.
This is where I run into trouble. When I join a group and run these dungeons some of the other players get angry at me for using Relentless Avenger. Especially any tanks and GWF's. They seem to really hate the knockback. I can understand why they dislike it. And I do sympathize with them, however because I am setup this way as a healer to solo these dailies, I am forced to use it. And, I am not about to change my play-style by changing out skills just to blast through a five minute group dungeon daily.
I would not expect any of the other players to change their ways or swap in different powers just to accommodate me and my personal preferences for a five minute daily. If this was a T1 or T2 dungeon then obviously I would not be using my soloing setup. I would be setup to heal the group, and would definitely not be using Relentless Avenger. But for these simple and quick dailies no one even needs any heals. We just blast through to the boss and take him out in no time. That is why I refuse to change my characters setup just to make a few GWF's and Tanks happy during a daily.
This leads me to the real reason I wrote this thread. I think it is a shame that Relentless Avenger cannot somehow work in a group setting without pissing off half the group. It's actually a great skill that deals high DPS and allows me to survive. It's the knockback that allows me to survive. I use it for the high damage it deals, and it lunges me to target which is also nice, but the real benefit is the knockback. The knockback allows me just enough time for my cooldowns to reset so that I can start my rotation again, and fully heal myself. Without it I would die in IWD.
Could there be a way to change Relentless Avenger to make it work within a group without changing it so much that it doesn't work like it does now? I am thinking perhaps the Knockback effect could be changed to a daze? Maybe even re-coded so that while soloing it still works the same but while in a group it stuns instead of the knockback.
I really like the skill but find it sad that it ruins the fun for some players in the group
PS: strangely Relentless Avenger is not including in the Neverwinter Wiki page on OP encounter powers. Or at least I can't find it.
The best balance for soloing seems to be using these powers:
At-Wills:
- Valorous Strike
- Cure Wounds
Encounter Powers:
- Divine Touch
- Smite
- Relentless Avenger
Class Features:
- Aura of Solitude
- Aura of Wisdom
Daily Powers:
- Divine Judgement
- Lay on Hands
An explanation of Relentless Avenger is shown in the screenshot below:
Click Image for Full-size
Everything works perfectly while soloing. It took me a while to get comfortable with this setup, but now I can solo everything without any trouble in Sharandar, Dread Ring, IWD, and WoD. IWD is still the hardest though, even fighting a couple bears or a group of trolls I am constantly one misclick away from death. But as long as I stay on my toes and use all my skills to stay healed I can survive.
Yet I still need to join a group in order to do the Heroic Encounter quest in IWD, the one in WoD, as well as the dungeon quests we get almost everyday in WoD: Drake Pens, Cult Prison, Thayan Magical Shelter, and the one Heroic Encounter quest to collect Missives.
This is where I run into trouble. When I join a group and run these dungeons some of the other players get angry at me for using Relentless Avenger. Especially any tanks and GWF's. They seem to really hate the knockback. I can understand why they dislike it. And I do sympathize with them, however because I am setup this way as a healer to solo these dailies, I am forced to use it. And, I am not about to change my play-style by changing out skills just to blast through a five minute group dungeon daily.
I would not expect any of the other players to change their ways or swap in different powers just to accommodate me and my personal preferences for a five minute daily. If this was a T1 or T2 dungeon then obviously I would not be using my soloing setup. I would be setup to heal the group, and would definitely not be using Relentless Avenger. But for these simple and quick dailies no one even needs any heals. We just blast through to the boss and take him out in no time. That is why I refuse to change my characters setup just to make a few GWF's and Tanks happy during a daily.
This leads me to the real reason I wrote this thread. I think it is a shame that Relentless Avenger cannot somehow work in a group setting without pissing off half the group. It's actually a great skill that deals high DPS and allows me to survive. It's the knockback that allows me to survive. I use it for the high damage it deals, and it lunges me to target which is also nice, but the real benefit is the knockback. The knockback allows me just enough time for my cooldowns to reset so that I can start my rotation again, and fully heal myself. Without it I would die in IWD.
Could there be a way to change Relentless Avenger to make it work within a group without changing it so much that it doesn't work like it does now? I am thinking perhaps the Knockback effect could be changed to a daze? Maybe even re-coded so that while soloing it still works the same but while in a group it stuns instead of the knockback.
I really like the skill but find it sad that it ruins the fun for some players in the group
PS: strangely Relentless Avenger is not including in the Neverwinter Wiki page on OP encounter powers. Or at least I can't find it.
Post edited by kurtb88 on
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Comments
I already said I would not run it in t1 and t2 dungeons. This is about making it work better though, if it were to be used in a group. But ty for the suggestions.
I strongly suggest running it in dungeons, it is quite fun and makes a huge difference to the group. Once you get a hang of the class, you are almost a tank/heal hybrid only your heals are stronger then a dc heals.
but the point here is youre in a group not solo, so its either you swap skills to fit the group or dont swap skills and dont be in a group.
its just a short run tho, i think it wouldnt hurt if you swap...^^
Also, the OP class abilities that mentions "while no allies are within 30' of you" - does that include companions, or do you just use an augment companion?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I never said anything about "not" running a good healing spec in dungeons...
it's the exact opposite, because its a short run with no need for anything special it hurts to swap. You swap when it's an important dungeon like eLoL, etc. which is why I wrote this thread about cryptic finding a way to make this skill work in solo and groups.
Mobility can IMHO&Xp better achieved by Radiant Strike, which has a shorter range, but no knockback. So no annoyance. On the other hand no Cure Wounds either... ...though I never ever felt the need for that during my soloing so far. It's either unnecessary because no need, or ineffective beacause it's too weak a heal, from what I experienced (solo). It can IMO have some justification in group play, especially if there's no other healer around.
Relentless Avenger would block the slot where I have either Vow of Enmity (single target / brute groups) or Templar's Wrath (groups, espacially e.g. Powries or Black Dragon Cultists - its stun has an interrupt effect).
Tastes and preferences are different, but that's what I currently use and would recommend...
99.99% of the day I am alone soloing. I am not going to take even 1 min out of my day to change out Aura of Solitude for something else just to run a 5 min dungeon daily. Obviously I would change all those solo skills out if I ran ELoL or something, but not for Cult Prison, lol.
I don't know if you are Devotion, sounds like it, but you might want to try my setup while soloing daily quests. It probably out dps's yours. And the Cure Wounds at-will is totally needed with my setup in IWD and WoD. You press TAB then Cure yourself and combined it's almost a full heal. Besides that about every 3-5 seconds I have Divine Touch up, which is usually an instant full heal. Also, when I use Cure Wounds it seems to shorten my cooldowns which is awesome.
I sorta started out using templars wrath and the AoE shield bash at-will when i was grinding from 0-70. But I got tired of it being so slow, and it wasn't very good in IWD. So, I changed things around until found this setup. And it's been great.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
(now that tab taunt has issues)
as a healer paladin, you are right, i would not slot this spell in a group.
To me it sounds like you are the one being inconsiderate here. You want do to HE with others, yet you don't want to change your power to play better with others.
You don't have to swap out your power if you really value 1 minute or your life (more like 10 seconds, unless you have a 1000-inch screen), but you can choose not to use it. If I see someone using avenger in HE, I may not necessarily get angry with you, but I'll for sure leave you alonｅ so you can keep on soloing.
So, in return for your one power, you'd cost a group I run with solid buffs/debuffs and either heals or damage mitigation.
I actually do refrain from using it when I notice things like a GWF going to town on three enemies or something. I am not a complete jerk!
Don't.
When you're solo, you can do whatever you want.
ANd for protector pallies there are plenty other ways to keep the aggro.
All of you who rail against Relentless Avenger encounter power while in groups: only if the Paladin is doing it RONG.
Since crossposting is a no-no I'll refer you to my response on this subject in another thread:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?924041-Relentless-Avenger-knockback-effect&p=10912131&viewfull=1#post10912131
It would behoove you to read it, especially of you are a Paladin player, but also written to edify non-Paladin players so you'll all just shut-up about it. I run both Paladins (Devotion and Protection) - I have Relentless Avenger slotted as one of my main powers and I use it all the time, *especially* while in co-op play at HEs and DDs. If used correctly it is a massive benefit to the party.
If used correctly.
Indeed, but they'll never understand.
Now solo as a paladin, it is a gamechanger. You aren't going to be setting the world on fire with AoE DPS as a solo pally; a huge part of your solo survivability is keeping stuff knocked down - as healing pally at least. That is Relentless Avenger. With your high recovery as a healer pally, you can blast someone with it, and its ready again by the time everything picks itself back up and lumbers back. It essentially lets you kill mobs one at a time and is invaluable.
My encounter loadout for solo is always Relentless Avenger; Smite; Vow of Enmity. Aura of Courage/Wisdom, mainly because companions screw up solitude as far as I know and I think I would get more DPS out of an augment or even my Zhent Warlock + aura of wisdom than I would out of solitude anyway.
For dungeon/herald/group healing, it is bond of virtue/bane/vow of enmity. I load Cure Light Wounds as well for oh snap situations, but normally I can heal someone to full in a tic just with bond+sanctuary. Bane is perhaps the best skill paladins have - +30% damage for everyone? Able to be kept up constantly? For bosses, heck, even on trash, that is the king of skills. Vow of enmity along with bond keeps everyone topped off on the rare occasions small damage is taken. As long as you don't get one shot - which, sadly, is most damage that any non-tank takes in the new and improved dungeons - you are getting filled back up within a heartbeat. And if you do get one shot, I am refilling you instantly after your soulforged brings you back. And if you don't have soulforged and are doing these dungeons, well, I got nothing for you. Someone else in the party is probably going to start a votekick on you, sorry about that, it won't be me and I'll vote against it but I will lose. Unless you don't have soulforged because you have some other crazy high ranking enchant, but if that's the case, I probably don't need to worry about you getting one shot anyway.
But I digress. Relentless Avenger is a paladin's best solo skill, but both as a healer and a tank, in groups you have far better options to do what you are supposed to do in the most efficient way possible and without earning the total ire of all your teammates except the Warlock. And even she is going to get salty if the stack of mobs she is laserbeaming is all of a sudden scattered to the winds.
I see it both ways. I'm Protection/Judgement
If I am Main Tank. My opening Move on a new set of mobs is Relentless Avenger. As mobs re-gather on me feel free to cast your AoE. I won't fire it off again until I see a squishy about to bite it and I have no heal up. Bam! I scatter that MASS of adds Cryptic likes to throw into every Boss/Mini Boss fight to buy that squishy some time to run or mash his [4] key to drink a heal pot. The rest of the time, I'm taunting, smiting, and dealing Templar's Wrath. If there is a healer in the group, I will swap out Relentless Avenger for Binding Oath and just be a taunting fool.
It's definitely situational when you are in a group and you should be aware that other Classes have AoE as their bread and butter, and to ignore that is in my opinion is pretty selfish.
To each his own though. Enjoy playing the way you play :-)