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(T2) Dungeons are just too hard
elvalianon
Member Posts: 331 Arc User
T1 dungeons
I have done all T1's so far. They are doable if you get some HP gear up front or just with some good supporter classes, like the super overpowered Oathbound Paladin. However the thing is if you are new to the game or not wearing that HP gear, any mistake means the game is over. Annoying but manageable (for me, someone who's been playing since beta release).
T2 dungeons
T2 dungeons however... just not even manageable! I have finished epic Temple of the Spider (legit) once now and I realized a group needs at least 3 supporter classes for that, which in my case where 2 healers (one being a Paladin) and a tank. Which leaves ideally 2 cw's to do the damage and cc. We made it, but we had a full team of very experienced top players (keeping my fairly fresh gf bum alive), I cannot imagine any new player to even pass through the dungeon let alone finish the boss... I tried 2 times again with OP + DC + GF + 2x CW set up and DC + DC + GF + 2x CW set up and failed both times. Even tho they where perfectly good and geared players (I'm talking half to full legendary+) it was just not enough!! Once someone makes 1 mistake, it's over.
I think having a very overpowered OP, GF and cleric is key. Which is total class discrimination! Everyone is searching for supporters, if they cannot find them or succeed the dungeon they start exploiting or rage quieting the game. I am a legit player, which means I don't even have a chance to improve myself to do basically anything (in T2) or make any progress in this game except when I find that ideal party again.
Improving how?
There is no way to farm AD anymore, since all gear is BoP now, I am bound to a lousy 24k a day, which doesn't help me at all to achieve or improve some artifact equipment or jewelry to raise my chances slightly. Since I have no chance on getting better in other areas (being armor) but jewelcrafting and artifact equipment. Now I know black ice gear is a option, but this is pvp focus and Im a pve player, why would I wanna go there?
Conclusion
I don't know how Elemental Evil was supposed to make the game any better. Yes it is harder now and yes support classes are needed now, but it's all WAY to extreme.
Good things about m6
Now I do wanna say that I do like how the T2 dungeons got changed. For example the GWD and ToS end boss fight. With the more fun and strategic ways to get them down. Very interesting!
UPDATE!
So far we where able to beat GWD and ToS (with 2x healer 1x GF), eCC is just nearly impossible! We have come up with a tactic that should work, the only issue is when one of us dies it is over and that is very very hard to prevent from happening.
My main issue with everything is still that the gap between T1 and T2 is too big (like mentioned in the comments) and that small mobs hit WAY too hard, especially ranged since you cannot dodge them, this makes everything just extremely unfair.
I also wanna add that T1 has extreme rubber banding from time to time, T2's don't seem to have this problem.
I have done all T1's so far. They are doable if you get some HP gear up front or just with some good supporter classes, like the super overpowered Oathbound Paladin. However the thing is if you are new to the game or not wearing that HP gear, any mistake means the game is over. Annoying but manageable (for me, someone who's been playing since beta release).
T2 dungeons
T2 dungeons however... just not even manageable! I have finished epic Temple of the Spider (legit) once now and I realized a group needs at least 3 supporter classes for that, which in my case where 2 healers (one being a Paladin) and a tank. Which leaves ideally 2 cw's to do the damage and cc. We made it, but we had a full team of very experienced top players (keeping my fairly fresh gf bum alive), I cannot imagine any new player to even pass through the dungeon let alone finish the boss... I tried 2 times again with OP + DC + GF + 2x CW set up and DC + DC + GF + 2x CW set up and failed both times. Even tho they where perfectly good and geared players (I'm talking half to full legendary+) it was just not enough!! Once someone makes 1 mistake, it's over.
I think having a very overpowered OP, GF and cleric is key. Which is total class discrimination! Everyone is searching for supporters, if they cannot find them or succeed the dungeon they start exploiting or rage quieting the game. I am a legit player, which means I don't even have a chance to improve myself to do basically anything (in T2) or make any progress in this game except when I find that ideal party again.
Improving how?
There is no way to farm AD anymore, since all gear is BoP now, I am bound to a lousy 24k a day, which doesn't help me at all to achieve or improve some artifact equipment or jewelry to raise my chances slightly. Since I have no chance on getting better in other areas (being armor) but jewelcrafting and artifact equipment. Now I know black ice gear is a option, but this is pvp focus and Im a pve player, why would I wanna go there?
Conclusion
I don't know how Elemental Evil was supposed to make the game any better. Yes it is harder now and yes support classes are needed now, but it's all WAY to extreme.
Good things about m6
Now I do wanna say that I do like how the T2 dungeons got changed. For example the GWD and ToS end boss fight. With the more fun and strategic ways to get them down. Very interesting!
UPDATE!
So far we where able to beat GWD and ToS (with 2x healer 1x GF), eCC is just nearly impossible! We have come up with a tactic that should work, the only issue is when one of us dies it is over and that is very very hard to prevent from happening.
My main issue with everything is still that the gap between T1 and T2 is too big (like mentioned in the comments) and that small mobs hit WAY too hard, especially ranged since you cannot dodge them, this makes everything just extremely unfair.
I also wanna add that T1 has extreme rubber banding from time to time, T2's don't seem to have this problem.
Post edited by elvalianon on
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Comments
that is an interesting 'behind-the-scenes' indicator, never thought about it that way
T2s are NOT meant to be played by new players. That's the veteran's league. New players should stick to T1s until they have better gear and improved their skills.
This is exactly it. I plow through T1s no problem, and last about a minute in T2.
So I've been spending my game time helping friends through the EE stuff, picking up EVERYTHING I can, either to stick in my gluttonous artifacts, or to sell for gold.
Progress a dungeon to a certain point -> get a reward -> upgrade gear -> repeat.
Progress a dungeon to a certain point -> get a reward -> repeat 100 times -> one year later -> upgrade gear
Then there needs to be a T1.5 so moderate player can work their way up....
Really
Right now the main issues are bosses do far too much damage with regular melee attacks (vt 1st boss, LoL scorpians for example) trash hurts too hard in the packs they are which result in insta gibs. Right now ít feels like darksouls which isn't nessecarily bad, but T1 should be entry level and the skills are not responsive enough to make it a smooth experience.
Here are my recommendations:
- Regeneration: I think removing the combat regen was a good move because now it makes healers more essential. However this stat is now not desirable as a tank, yet its on most tank gear. Using it over hp, def or deflect will hamper your survivability. The skill should be renamed to "Endurance" along with the current bonuses it should also give % DR for each enemy within 15" (up to a max of 5-10)
- Boss melee/standard attack: Speed up the animation so it cannot be easily dodge but reduce the damage by 50% or so.
- Guardian fight block: There needs to be a 1 second buff of 50% DR after shield is dropped so another skill can be used afterwards. Because right now you will get insta gibbed just trying to use a daily/encounter because of activation times when facing a group of enemies.
I've yet to tank GWD but once i have done all i will post individual boss tweaks.and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Dungeons should require strategy, and teamwork to overcome. Right now theres too much of a gear barrier due to the huge damage spikes, Red attacks should be lethal. But regular ones should be managable.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Maybe not lethal.. more like devastating...
Of course, with the new potion cooldown time, pretty much any devastating hit *is* lethal...
Even with full Alliance set you drop like a fly without the right party set up (which is 3 supporters imo).
Exactly! This is also a problem I am having.
No. Not staying in red has been a major rule until mod 4 or 5, and then people forgot how to play the game. I'm glad lack of attention can now farm kills on a regular basis.
A Very good observation my friend.
If you also check out their website it looks like they're trying to cash out as fast as they can, I wonder why...
As I say all this, I am still in shock that we only got a few dungeons with Mod 6 and some of them dont work very well. Mod 6 should still be in beta so that all these things could have been worked out.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
A issue with red is when you cant avoid it due to server lag. or that bull hand grab and circle in VT.
Too many DCs. You need 2 competent dps players with strong CC spells (typically TRs or CWs) pre-positionned to archers spawn locations. Because in case you didn't notice, 66% is the first group of archers spawn and they can kill you in two or three hits.
my main gripe is just how much damage some things do, like those cutthroats in cragmire they are just normal trash but will oneshot me all the time if i do not have my shield up.
So you say on just keep your sheild up! well its not so easy, sometimes in aoe situations they can flank you easily becuase you cannot move whilst your are in mid stab/bash animation, wizards using oppressive force will push things around you (non-ccable ones).
Overall the dungeons screams like they are in alpha/untested phase. It would save cryptic alot of time if they actually played their game or employed some dedicated testers who know how to play the game.
CC boss has way too much HP and the adds are really unnessecary. (50 million hp O.o) it should be lowered to 30 million and have zero adds. Even then the boss would be a long dance.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".