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T1 (1600 IL) dungeons and skirmishes are hard for newbies
foxxy
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 563 Arc User
These dungeons and skirmishes should be easier to be run by newbies and ungeared people. Players that just finished elemental zones won't have good gear to fight this next level.
We normally read comments like:
Buy gear in AH. -> Newbies (either in guilds or not) won't know about AH market, and if they do, won't have enough AD to buy gear. This happens cause many sources of AD were removed from game, so not many ways to get a good daily amount is possible atm.
Blue gear -> Barely drops in the elemental zones.
People who randomly que (normally guildless or newbies) in elol, valindra, kessel's, tuern. Go skilless and no geared try to do a dungeon that fits their Item level as the quest indicates.
How is possible to make dungeons in this level hard for this people. Don't come and say to get a party "in zone or lfg chat". As the elitism already grew up and people ask for 2k+ Item level players. I'm sure these players feel frustrated and bad they cannot do more so they will end quitting the game.
Another fact happens when these people pvp to get glory and have a chance to buy this pvp gear. Another frustrating and disappointing reason for them to leave the game. They will end up dying against geared old people or have 1 or 2 geared people in their team that will insult them for pvp'ing and having such gear and making the team lose.
In this module, even if we are skillful players we will need good gear with a lot of HP.
I hope the new cryptic dev leader really does a good job and fix the course of this game. At this rate, newbies won't stay long and i dont think we pretend to stay with old people that in some moment will get tired and bored of the same unbalanced module ever.
We normally read comments like:
Buy gear in AH. -> Newbies (either in guilds or not) won't know about AH market, and if they do, won't have enough AD to buy gear. This happens cause many sources of AD were removed from game, so not many ways to get a good daily amount is possible atm.
Blue gear -> Barely drops in the elemental zones.
People who randomly que (normally guildless or newbies) in elol, valindra, kessel's, tuern. Go skilless and no geared try to do a dungeon that fits their Item level as the quest indicates.
How is possible to make dungeons in this level hard for this people. Don't come and say to get a party "in zone or lfg chat". As the elitism already grew up and people ask for 2k+ Item level players. I'm sure these players feel frustrated and bad they cannot do more so they will end quitting the game.
Another fact happens when these people pvp to get glory and have a chance to buy this pvp gear. Another frustrating and disappointing reason for them to leave the game. They will end up dying against geared old people or have 1 or 2 geared people in their team that will insult them for pvp'ing and having such gear and making the team lose.
In this module, even if we are skillful players we will need good gear with a lot of HP.
I hope the new cryptic dev leader really does a good job and fix the course of this game. At this rate, newbies won't stay long and i dont think we pretend to stay with old people that in some moment will get tired and bored of the same unbalanced module ever.
Post edited by foxxy#4211 on
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If I was to hypothetically start again though, as if I had never played this game before, I would quit, as there is absolutely no way (prove me wrong!) for a new player to get to the required ilvl without help from other players or without buying zen.
The dungeons will only be too hard if you don't use the content the devs intended you to play before queueing for T1s. I agree it could be properly advertised but that's a MMO and as in every single MMO, nothing is properly documented and devs rarely tell you how to do things but rather rely on other players posting guides and helping newbies to solve the issues they face. So here is the piece of advice you need: normal ToS is waiting for you. And open all the chests on your way, it's full of blue gear.
Did you bother to read mine, regarding my concerns about the costs to new players?
I'm consider quitting, after spend a lot of money in this game...
OK let's make some maths:
12 gear slots + 4 artifacts slots, off hand and mainhand are free quest rewards. Pants and shirts too. Artifact is free around lvl 25. That leaves 9 pieces of gear to farm.
Blue rings, cloaks and belt cost around 500 AD each so unless you didn't bother with levelling quests from Rhix that leaves the usual 4 parts to farm. Since you get a lot of blue stuff from standard chests and one guaranteed drop for your class in the final chest, you'll get all you need in what, 4 to 15 runs at most? Let's say it's just a week.
So after one week at lvl 70 you have 8 lvl 115 items, lvl 100ish shirt and pants, a lvl 120 main hand and offhand, two green artifacts (class + free one), 5 available enchantment slots for the r5s you've looted, which means
8x115 + 2x100 + 2x26 + 5x23 = 1287.
That's assuming you didn't refine anything, didn't get any special drop in the well of the dragons doing heralds, and so on.
To get to 1600 the easiest way to do it is upgrading your artifacts with the r5s drops in the levelling zones, ie doing heroic encounters, and you'll learn to play a bit as a group too, so that doesn't hurt. It should take at most a month if you're very slow (probably a week with some dedication), and once you have r7s thanks to the free blue marks from HEs and blue rank 59 artifacts then you're good to go.
And how does this attract new players to neverwinter? You just made my point for me, players starting in mod 6 grind to 60, hit the horrible grind of 60-70 (it is really boring, I think you can agree) and then after hitting 70, get told they then have to grind more boring stuff and that they can't do endgame content. Maybe there are some very few people who see the rough gem that neverwinter is and decide to stick it through but the majority of new players just leave. On the whole, I agree with most of what you say diogene1, but you need to accept that for this game to survive, you need new players flowing in and you need casual players. An MMO has its own food chain and somewhere in it, casual players feature. Without them the game cannot function and it will collapse. What you have described is a method of acquiring gear which, whilst fine to you and me, is the complete opposite of what any casual player is willing to do. The dungeons themselves don't need to be casual friendly, but casual players need to be able to get into them, so that even if they wipe miserably they still feel like there is some endgame to work towards.
I know people from all ends of the games spectrum, those who take it seriously (you, me, some others) and those who play it casually, who don't read forums and just want to have fun. The people who used to play casually, including those who are good players but don't take the game seriously, complain that there is almost no sense of progression, because you grind forever to make the smallest amount of progress with almost no reward to show for it. The game is lacking that..."sense of achievement" that comes with progression for these players and it only provides it to those of us who enjoy pitting ourselves against the new dungeons.
What you are doing is showing that things are possible, I never said they weren't, I am saying, that for a crucial part of this games playerbase, things aren't user friendly. The dungeons difficulty should remain as is, because thats the part of the game aimed towards us, but there should be things in this game that cater towards new players and make them want to stay. I challenge you to get a friend of yours who knows nothing about neverwinter to play it and then try and convince them to stay, the rules are, you are not allowed to provide them with any gear. In previous mods, this was something possible, in mod 6, it is rather difficult.
Then if the purpose of the thread was to ask for a new tier of dungeons around iLevel 1200 (I thought it would be 1400 for a fresh lvl 70 with blues, seems it was wrong by a few %), it's a valid request. But again asking for T1s to be nerfed so that clueless players in green lvl 50 gear can do it is a no-go to me, that's not the game I've started playing two years ago - I had to spend one month farming T1s AND PvP before getting into T2s and CN -, but asking for another nerf in the name of newbies, even if we know the real reason is that OP can't do them with his current decent gear is really silly and doesn't serve the game either. Once all the committed and dedicated players, who also pay for the game, actually, have left the game so that newbies and freeloaders get their stuff the easy way, the servers won't remain online for a long time.
The truth is that mod 4 and 5 almost killed the game and that it's back on the right track, even if there's still a lot of work to do and some adjustments which will take quite a lot of work from the dev team if they want to do it right, but mod 6 is definitely a good change.
Agreed. For reference, I geared my pally up without spending anything (used r5's I picked up) and he hit 70 with 1155 ilvl and yes, with the right tweaks mod 6 is definately the right track. However, if those adjustments are not made, it will do more harm then good.
I wasn't among the first players to beat dungeons. I wasn't in a big guild, didn't have many friends, and didn't know about the Legit channel. I don't know how long it took before those dungeons were beaten. I certainly couldn't have beat them without without the help of older players
I call horsepucky on this. The lowest gear score T1 dungeons were a complete and utter faceroll, you didn't even need the 5300 gear score or whatever it was they required to queue. And that was a mix of primarily green gear with a few blues, and equivalent enchants. So yes, it WAS the game you started playing 2 years ago. And while the game desperately needed more difficult content after the mad rampage of gear bloat from mod 2 on, it also needs to have starter dungeons. Not just leveling dungeons, but group content doable by fresh level 70s that gives them better gear.
I was playing from the start, even ignoring all the rampant exploiting and dungeon glitches, there is no way in heck you needed to grind T1s for a month before doing T2s back then. The easiest ones, epic PK and Idris, were barely more difficult than T1s. You must be living in some sort of weird revisionist landscape, because none of what you are saying here is based on how the game actually was back then. There were only 3 "hard" dungeons back then, CN, epic DV, and epic TSQ, and that's only assuming you didn't use any of the plentiful exploits. Those were the only ones that either required very competent play or significantly higher than minimum gear score.
Why are some of you guys on this wacky crusade to shout down any complaints about the lack of starter endgame content?
Okay, Panic.
I always disliked having to use exploits, and also, 1 month is the time it took me to learn to play the game. I'm a bit slow but one I start to understand how things work I have no further issue. Technically it meant for me one month trying to do normal DV (always failed during that first month), Idris, wiping in MD to get my helmet, and doing CC when I was bored.
But the standard dungeons are just stupidly easy and give no real rewards, and the epic dungeons, even the easiest ones, are almost impossible for a random team. There is no in between. And if you don't believe me, then just queue solo for ELOL or VT and watch what happens. I can virtually guarantee that 75% of the time, you won't even make it past the first boss.
This was why I levelled my pally to 70, so when I can't get a premade team, my healer pally can carry the group through the dungeon.