DO NOT reduce difficulty of mod6

burkaanc · April 2015

as a response to http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9213383-neverwinter%3A-looking-into-elemental-evil

with all these "mod6 is too hard threads" i want to express the opinion of somebody who is happy that there finally is some challenge in game. we havent had anything close to challenge since mod1. Although there are some issues, the game(in terms of difficulty) is closest to mod0 - the time when this game was at its best. after mod0, aka. launch version, there was no difficulty upgrades, but gearscore doubled

mod6 isnt out for long enough for enough ppl to get good gear and polish their builds and strategies, ppl are are used to facetanking everything, dont even try to dodge and then are surprised that they die.

difficulty is fine, dungeons could use a bit of work so they are tankable, tanks getting oneshot by random trash mobs should rarely happen if at all, but dps classes should be hit hard so there is no return of the old CW CW CW GWF GWF full dps no support comps that run dungeons in below 10 min. My suggestion would be either change heavier pve armor to have more hp(but that could make PvE armor BiS for PvP) or to add PvE dmg resist(so it doesnt affect PvP) that works on a separate instance from DR, to AC - so the heavy armor classes are better at soaking damage.

this is supposed to be action oriented game, where is action in facetanking anything and everything in cloth armor ? attacks should hit hard and ppl should be forced to evade telegraphed attacks

burkaanc · April 2015

and here is some proof that biggrin(something many ppl complain about) can be done solo and doesnt require insane gear

ilvl 1000 GWF
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?903201-Biggrin-s-tomb-is-too-difficult!

CW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpZA-XecRDQ (not made by me, couldnt find the original thread)

micky1p00 · April 2015

Until this mod PvE was extremely boring without any challenge, and finally this mod brought some effort, planning, roles, and a need to communicate (to some extent) and that's a good thing.

Perhaps some adjustments should be made to make the game more available to all player bases, but I'm afraid the tendency to over 'fix' and the heavy handed adjustment will turn this game to a boring, snooze feast.

So like, burkaanc said, lets not jump the gun, people need to adjust, change their play style, their stats, their team choice and only then perhaps with the relevant experience adjustments can be made in a good direction.

In my personal opinion the drastic change to life steal and regen and at the same time introducing the huge numbers on attack both on players and mobs was heavy handed.
Increasing mobs defense a lot, and keeping ArP closer to the old curves would reduced the hit damage significantly and with that the LS gain. And both making the combat slower, more dangerous, and less sustainable by only dps classes.
I do not see the point in increasing mobs defense and yet make the player ArP to match it, and then introduce tenacity's ArP negation to balance it back in PvP.
Also several cheesy mechanics like Lostmauth getting all the platform on fire during the fly part is not an increase in difficulty but only in frustration (If some of the last attack put fire in the center just before lostmauth flys away it will remain on fire and everyone will die when the lava flows).
Or archers circling and one shooting GFs (GWD 75%, 25% HP for example) if something that can one shot a geared player appears I think it should be at least telegraphed with some warning, animation, to give players time to get in position. boom splat is not the way.

So bottom line, first make sure people go to the right zones with the right level and gear, jumping to IWD with no HP is bound to be a failure (a popup that recommends them to do so is not a good thing), and if people have problem with the right level and gear on solo content, that can always be adjusted.

But dungeons should be a step up in difficulty, that take roles and coordination so lets not kill those.

rayrdan · April 2015

burkaanc wrote: »

as a response to http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9213383-neverwinter%3A-looking-into-elemental-evil

with all these "mod6 is too hard threads" i want to express the opinion of somebody who is happy that there finally is some challenge in game. we havent had anything close to challenge since mod1. Although there are some issues, the game(in terms of difficulty) is closest to mod0 - the time when this game was at its best. after mod0, aka. launch version, there was no difficulty upgrades, but gearscore doubled

mod6 isnt out for long enough for enough ppl to get good gear and polish their builds and strategies, ppl are are used to facetanking everything, dont even try to dodge and then are surprised that they die.

difficulty is fine, dungeons could use a bit of work so they are tankable, tanks getting oneshot by random trash mobs should rarely happen if at all, but dps classes should be hit hard so there is no return of the old CW CW CW GWF GWF full dps no support comps that run dungeons in below 10 min. My suggestion would be either change heavier pve armor to have more hp(but that could make PvE armor BiS for PvP) or to add PvE dmg resist(so it doesnt affect PvP) that works on a separate instance from DR, to AC - so the heavy armor classes are better at soaking damage.

this is supposed to be action oriented game, where is action in facetanking anything and everything in cloth armor ? attacks should hit hard and ppl should be forced to evade telegraphed attacks

they need to do it if you want new players to play the game and old player to keep gearing up with the hope to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

baronstragen · April 2015

Actually, I do agree that the mod is nice for difficulty. If you have 8 hours a day to spare. Most people don't want to spend 4 hours in a zone or dungeon. Thanks.

ucanthandle · April 2015

Nothing that is solo content cannot be soloed. The game is still not hard. People just make it hard when they either do not play correctly, or build their characters incorrectly. Going 100% glass cannon will get you killed. There is a reason they added the "glass" part. Some people say "I dont want to use "x" ability because it will lower my dps," or some other nonsense when given advice. Sometimes you have to use cc, or healing abilities, or something besides just damage and facetanking. Each class has the tools, just some refuse to use them because it may make killing slightly slower. In the end a character that is still alive will do more than a dead one. Play smart and dont try to faceroll and everything will be ok is my advice to players that still think it is too hard.

diogene0 · April 2015

micky1p00 wrote: »

But dungeons should be a step up in difficulty, that take roles and coordination so lets not kill those.

Yes I agree that except minor adjustments (like archers during boss fights in GWD and CC), any significant changes to boss mechanics, damage from adds or from bosses will result in the game brought back to mod 4/5 state, as in 3 CWs 2 GWFs runs; tanks and healers can go **** themselves. Stuff has to hit hard in group content so that support roles are required.

Now, I must admit I have no interest in the fate of solo quests and campaign tasks. They can be nerfed so that being AFK slowly kills the npcs, I don't care, but dungeons and skirmishes should remain mostly unchanged.

ghoulz66 · April 2015

ucanthandle wrote: »

Nothing that is solo content cannot be soloed. The game is still not hard. People just make it hard when they either do not play correctly, or build their characters incorrectly. Going 100% glass cannon will get you killed.

All the new gear have hitpoints, but everyone but tanks have abysmal DR now. EVERYONE is a glass cannon. No build is going to stop you from getting 1 shot.

orangebang · April 2015

Agreed. Don't reduce the difficulty. I was noticing that with ok HR gear, I was on the brink of death many times. Does that mean it's too hard? No, it means I have to get more life points to outlast the mobs and more deflection or defense. This coming from a max DPS HR. Plus with the new level 65 ability, mobs are doable again. You just have to play smart. I totally agree that dungeons and skirmishes should be for parties. If you want your DPS to be accepted in parties, get some friends, at least two so you can't be kicked out. At least playing is now a challenge for better geared people, which is the way it should be, not one shotting mobs.

tropicofcancer43 · April 2015

Want to know why people think mod 6 is too hard ? ,Go to any of the class forums and you'll see " Newbie player here , so what's the best pure dps build ?" If your new don't try to join a group or solo thinking your Johnny Rambo . Racing the other four members in your group for Paingiver status is why groups fail . Also why are all these guys saying its 'pay to play" or they only die because they don't have gear veterans have . Man I've played since the beginning with Avatar of war armor since before mod 2 and it is worse than alot of the green and blue gear you find in normal solo play . If you have 3 characters then you have access to 3 "free" artifacts . It's all about the boons now , all about the % rather than the gear score . I had 11.4k power standing next to another gwf with 14.6 k power , my damage bonus was 38% his was 42% thats nothing compared to how it use to be . Try getting some utility instead of scratching your heads when you get killed by a mob you failed to kill in your first encounter rotation.

lldt · April 2015

jimmyhar wrote: »

It needs hard quests and easy quests.

But there ARE hard quests and easy quests. People are complaining about the hard ones. If there are dailies in IWD or WoD that you can't do solo, then don't do them. There are plenty of other quests to do.

Games have been getting easier and easier in the past 30 years since they were introduced so that they would appeal to a wider audience. Even with a game as casual as NW, there are still so many complaints about difficulty. It is getting ridiculous. Also, there is essentially no penalty for death other than the time you spent doing the quest.

gg1994dak · April 2015

well guys I hate to say it but for all of you guys saying keep the difficulty where it is you must be fully geared with the best equipment and have all rank 12's and such and play 100+ hours a week but for the casual player the game went from being fun to another job . It's [pretty bad when you need a party just to do the campaigns because you don't have all that time and money invested to be able to gear yourself to make them soloable,and with that being said the rest of the game falls in the same category. I'm sure the casual player like myself don't like the idea of sitting around trying to find or put together a group just to do one campaign mission everyday in order to advance that tiny little bit . So I don't know where Cryptic is going with its logic but I don't think it will be very long before me and a lot of others don't really care and just look for another game to play instead of investing money on something that is beginning to be no longer fun . I personally have invested to much money myself to play any longer on account of where the elitest and people that consider the game a full time commitment want it to go ..Sorry Cryptic and whoever else might be involved but im done with it . Good Luck with sales and keeping population....

gogu79 · April 2015

lldt wrote: »

But there ARE hard quests and easy quests. People are complaining about the hard ones. If there are dailies in IWD or WoD that you can't do solo, then don't do them. There's plenty of other quests to do..

if u are full boons in WOD and IWD and u have good gear then its easy to say dont do them
but here is many players and always will be many players with blue gears who try to get that boons and daylies

lldt · April 2015

gogu79 wrote: »

if u are full boons in WOD and IWD and u have good gear then its easy to say dont do them
but here is many players and always will be many players with blue gears who try to get that boons and daylies

Only one of my chars have all the IWD boons and still missing the last boon in ToD/WoD. Most boons are attainable fairly easily. Then there are some that are more difficult. This isn't any different than any other mmo.

doidloko · April 2015

i m a cw, i have 75k hp, on dungeons monsters hit me 60k , 2 hits i die (Using Shield Buff)
My atack its good, i made a good demage, but the monsters atack are impossible, need reduce 50% - 70%

Note: i need dungeons to make my sets, if u is new and dont have good gear (cash) u is kicked all time.

santralafax · April 2015

tropicofcancer43 wrote: »

Want to know why people think mod 6 is too hard ? ,Go to any of the class forums and you'll see " Newbie player here , so what's the best pure dps build ?" If your new don't try to join a group or solo thinking your Johnny Rambo . Racing the other four members in your group for Paingiver status is why groups fail . Also why are all these guys saying its 'pay to play" or they only die because they don't have gear veterans have . Man I've played since the beginning with Avatar of war armor since before mod 2 and it is worse than alot of the green and blue gear you find in normal solo play . If you have 3 characters then you have access to 3 "free" artifacts . It's all about the boons now , all about the % rather than the gear score . I had 11.4k power standing next to another gwf with 14.6 k power , my damage bonus was 38% his was 42% thats nothing compared to how it use to be . Try getting some utility instead of scratching your heads when you get killed by a mob you failed to kill in your first encounter rotation.

I gather you have the time in the day to run 3 characters around the maps. Many of us don't. We get a second or third artifact by either earning or buying them in the time we have available. And I don't mind paying a little into my character--but not when the next mod obsoletes my investment.

kvet · April 2015

Don't have the last two WoD boons, and probably never will. I cannot stand the idea of doing Tiamat that many times. Pugging content like that makes me retch. If I could gather my guild and do a full guild Tiamat run, I'd probably run it over and over, but I don't like doing anything twice in a row with strangers - it's a huge reason I don't like PvP. You can't pick both sides (like you can in STO -- HINT HINT HINT). I've also never owned anything legendary, and I *might* finally get my devoted sigil to that point... maybe... in the next couple months. I happen to like the difficulty. It's really hard and rather unforgiving, but that's ok, it gives you something to work toward and a reason to evolve you character and game play a bit to compensate.

Rather than making it easier to fight mobs, they should reduce the amount of grinding that's needed. Make things 10x has hard (or more!), but only necessary to do a few times rather than hundreds... I'd be ok with that.

Edit: oh yeah, I have R8s, but am a LONG way from having an R9. -- I don't play much, a few times a week maybe where I actually spend time playing rather than just popping on for 20 minutes in the morning to invoke and set up professions. So I'm anything but a hardcore player, but yet, I'm advocating for leaving the difficulty alone.

lldt · April 2015

gg1994dak wrote: »

all rank 12's

Come on. Most people don't even have rank 9's, much less 12. Exaggerating this much to make your point just doesn't help.

sasageru · April 2015

jimmyhar wrote: »

I think I like you more when you are worried.

The game is for everyone, not just you. It needs hard dungeons and easy dungeons. It needs hard quests and easy quests. For many, including myself, the dailies in IWD, WoD etc have swung too far towards difficult. Yes, they were too easy but now they are too hard. There is a happy middle ground where dailies can be completed solo by *average* players. Dailies needs to be something folk can work on at their own pace.

I know you will never agree with this but that does not make you right.

Says it succintly, thankyou. As an average player i can't solo WoD or IWD content with my gf or my tr unless i spend hours at it and play by tip-toeing around. I play after work, i don't have the time to do dailies when one can take an hour if i'm not careful. Even on my gf who has decent gear, survivability isnt the issue but the time it takes to kill is, but even then survivability is still something that needs concentration. On my TR... huge dps, and although i've thrown most stats at def, deflect and hp now, he's still 3 hit by your average mob, so regardless how much dps he has, the time it takes to kill is too long to remain alive and with potions at 10k... yeah isnt enough, as i've mentioned on another threat, WoD regular mob hits with regular skills for 10k on my gf who has 6k def... on my TR thats considerably more. A potion that heals 10k and then has to cooldown is not helping me survive xD

burkaanc · April 2015

gogu79 wrote: »

if u are full boons in WOD and IWD and u have good gear then its easy to say dont do them
but here is many players and always will be many players with blue gears who try to get that boons and daylies

for IWD boons you need HE and 300 black ice, you dont have to solo biggrin or whatever, and HE's should not be nerfed in any case, so ppl will still ***** about them

gg1994dak wrote: »

well guys I hate to say it but for all of you guys saying keep the difficulty where it is you must be fully geared with the best equipment and have all rank 12's and such and play 100+ hours a week

i play some 30 hours a week, and i have green/blue artifact stuff and rank 5~8 enchants, pvorp and Lsoul on one char and Lterror and Lnegation on other

doidloko wrote: »

i m a cw, i have 75k hp, on dungeons monsters hit me 60k , 2 hits i die (Using Shield Buff)
My atack its good, i made a good demage, but the monsters atack are impossible, need reduce 50% - 70%

Note: i need dungeons to make my sets, if u is new and dont have good gear (cash) u is kicked all time.

the tank should be the one taking the hits, at least i am when im tanking, get a guild or make a decent party and it will get much easier

if you cant do the dungeon you dont deserve best gear, if you cant make enough money you dont deserve a bugatti, easy

zeusom · April 2015

Challenge is good, but mostly the adds just hit harder. I am NOT in favor of the pve game being harder because adds simply 1 or 2 shot people. Turning up the volume <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on adds (hit points, damage, and damage resist) does not make a better game. By analogy music is not better because you turn up the volume to 11 earbleed mode - its still the same song just louder.

samothrace22 · April 2015

I had to group with friends to help them with the Sharandar introductory quest and the Vault of the Nine quest, these things were way too difficult and should be soloable. New lvl 60s are doing these. I enjoy the dungeons being harder but I feel like the ads hit too hard. So yes , please decrease difficulty

zeusom wrote: »

By analogy music is not better because you turn up the volume to 11 earbleed mode - its still the same song just louder.

Agreed.

micky1p00 · April 2015

sasageru wrote: »

Says it succintly, thankyou. As an average player i can't solo WoD or IWD content with my gf or my tr unless i spend hours at it and play by tip-toeing around. I play after work, i don't have the time to do dailies when one can take an hour if i'm not careful. Even on my gf who has decent gear, survivability isnt the issue but the time it takes to kill is, but even then survivability is still something that needs concentration. On my TR... huge dps, and although i've thrown most stats at def, deflect and hp now, he's still 3 hit by your average mob, so regardless how much dps he has, the time it takes to kill is too long to remain alive and with potions at 10k... yeah isnt enough, as i've mentioned on another threat, WoD regular mob hits with regular skills for 10k on my gf who has 6k def... on my TR thats considerably more. A potion that heals 10k and then has to cooldown is not helping me survive xD

(I did quote, but I'm trying to answer in a more general way)

Few suggestions then:
Stealth->dazing->smoke->blitz->DF->dodge few times, stealth will be up by now, repeat.
Most stuff either controllable (dazing,smoke) or have slow AoE attacks that extremely easy to avoid, even by sidestepping,
there are no strike attacks like Erinyes does.

If you are 3 hit by an average mob that hits 10k each, I assume you have about 30k HP, while doable like i described above, this is not the right equipment for WoD. I think it will be much faster and easier if you go to the new zones and pick up few HP items, or/and get to level 70 and do T1 to get the set or seals. They are easily obtainable and will put you at about 70k-90k HP
10k hitting mobs with 90k HP is more than fair.

And finally, If you see that you have tanking problem, use a companion, yes, augments are the best for a dungeon, but in a dungeon you have that GF or someone else to aggro as TR, if you solo and overwhelmed put any companion out to absorb the first attack wave.
The mobs will kill it, you will kill the mobs, companion resurrects ( they do it in combat too now ) and move to next group.

For people that have issues with mini dungeons, I really do not see why it is so bad to ask for help. People did the lairs with groups just to do it faster and now when a group really can help why not make one, this is the whole essence of MMO. Meet people, help each other, progress. Custom channels, guilds, friend lists..

burkaanc · April 2015

zeusom wrote: »

Challenge is good, but mostly the adds just hit harder. I am NOT in favor of the pve game being harder because adds simply 1 or 2 shot people. Turning up the volume <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on adds (hit points, damage, and damage resist) does not make a better game. By analogy music is not better because you turn up the volume to 11 earbleed mode - its still the same song just louder.

ofc id prefer better mobs to more damage, but then there would anyway be whining about how mob AI is better than some player I, or whatever nonsense the lazy ppl would come up with this time

also being a global game neverwinter has the problem of latency, games like TERA are nice on low latency, but playing at 150~250 ms would be a nightmare, though they should drop dps from normal attacks, but make red circle attacks stronger, there are limits imposed by being global, and having longer attack ranges, same reason ranged skills lock on target instead of being directly aimed

prettycelt wrote: »

THIRTY...HOURS A WEEK? 4+ F-ING HOURS A DAY AVERAGE...??

According the the ACA, that's literally considered a FT job. PWE needs to pay for your health insurance. Do we even need to say anything more about that?

Seriously, burk, your rhetoric is getting stale. Just...stop.

oh noez, i haz free time

time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time

herpnderp2 · April 2015

I agree with OP lets just make the game for all veterans/elitists. Screw the casuals/new players. :rolleyes:

dragon20ro · April 2015

I'm a new player and leveled just before Mod 6 and didn't know it will hit. My leveling experience has been great from 1 to 60 and got even a paragon over 60. When the mod dropped **** went haywire and monsters 2 shot me. It needs to be tweaked. White mobs are not allowed to hit harder then bosses.

burkaanc · April 2015

dragon20ro wrote: »

I'm a new player and leveled just before Mod 6 and didn't know it will hit. My leveling experience has been great from 1 to 60 and got even a paragon over 60. When the mod dropped **** went haywire and monsters 2 shot me. It needs to be tweaked. White mobs are not allowed to hit harder then bosses.

dont worry, bosses hit harder

DO NOT reduce difficulty of mod6

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