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So T2 dungeons are far from being impossible...
diogene0
Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
I just tried grey wold den with a team of people I didn't know well, and while it took us a fair bit of planning, it's far from being the hell and pain testers on preview said it was. Yes the bosses require to adapt. It's an entirely new game and support is definitely mandatory. We've used 3 support characters (GF, DC & HR), and we killed the first boss after 7-8 attempts, the second one in two attempts, and downed the first boss up to 60% of its hit points.
Now the team wasn't a random /lfg party or the average guild member but we didn't play together before attempting this one, and decided we would not go further due to the lack of gear. 3 of us had less than 60K hit points, someone didn't have an armour enchantment, gear was a ragtag of SCA login rewards (lol), T1 and some mod 5 gear. Our GF barely met the item level requirement and didn't die every 2s to adds or whatever, because support chars can definitely help preventing the massive amount of incoming damage if they have synergistic spells. It's all about knowing the mechanics, using the right spells and giving the right amount of DR and temp hit points. I got hit by the boss several times, and with support fully up, it was on average a mere 50k dmg - definitely survivable.
Now I will clearly not give tips or any kind of help, because I do want to be one of the first to kill the final boss, and because it's against the tradition of MMOs to give away strategies, build and stuff like that before the instance is on farming mode by your guild/team, but if people who don't know eachother, don't use voice chat, have terrible gear, and have language barrier issues can do it, you can do it too with your guild.
Side note : 0 exploits and cheats were used during this attempt. My cleric is faithful and doesn't use the horribly imbalanced 'gift of haste' and the ranger didn't use weird things to increase his damage tremendously.
Edit: cryptic, 2 freaking seals of the protector from the first and two from the second boss, you're kidding me, right?
Now the team wasn't a random /lfg party or the average guild member but we didn't play together before attempting this one, and decided we would not go further due to the lack of gear. 3 of us had less than 60K hit points, someone didn't have an armour enchantment, gear was a ragtag of SCA login rewards (lol), T1 and some mod 5 gear. Our GF barely met the item level requirement and didn't die every 2s to adds or whatever, because support chars can definitely help preventing the massive amount of incoming damage if they have synergistic spells. It's all about knowing the mechanics, using the right spells and giving the right amount of DR and temp hit points. I got hit by the boss several times, and with support fully up, it was on average a mere 50k dmg - definitely survivable.
Now I will clearly not give tips or any kind of help, because I do want to be one of the first to kill the final boss, and because it's against the tradition of MMOs to give away strategies, build and stuff like that before the instance is on farming mode by your guild/team, but if people who don't know eachother, don't use voice chat, have terrible gear, and have language barrier issues can do it, you can do it too with your guild.
Side note : 0 exploits and cheats were used during this attempt. My cleric is faithful and doesn't use the horribly imbalanced 'gift of haste' and the ranger didn't use weird things to increase his damage tremendously.
Edit: cryptic, 2 freaking seals of the protector from the first and two from the second boss, you're kidding me, right?
Post edited by diogene0 on
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far from possible for normal people
1 GF, 1 DC (me), 1 CW, 1 GWF and 1 HR.
because still 3 range classes.
These dungeons you HAVE to have CC because you cannot "tank" them. Ask your GWF if he ever got hit and if he did he was spamming "1" for a respawn...
As mentioned MANY times, noone is saying its not possible. When you CC a group and they cannot attack or you have things like "Fox Shift" allowing your party a free dodge to eat an attack, it matters not if the hit was for 1 million damage or 1 damage.
To put it simply.
Lets say there is 1 mob in open world. He has 300k HP. Drops epics. Hits players for 100k damage. However can be controlled.
Youll see some players able to solo it, others will have zero chance.
Classes like DCs will be able to do it, they can debuff the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of a single target, and have immunity frame dodges. Not to mention are unkillable with their uber healz.
Classes like TR can do it, they ITC->BB->ITC and perma stealth till its dead.
Classes like CWs will do it, they jsut control it to death and watch the DOTs/SS kill it.
HRs? Spam dodges, fox shift + roots. Ranged attacks.
What do all these classes have in common?
- Range
- CC
- Immunity Frame Dodges
What about the other guys?
GFs - wont be able to since they cant "heal" themselves and dont dish enough damage, they will hide behind block for a short period of time until it runs out OR the 20% damage that comes through eventually kills them.
GWFs - will get nearly 1 shot before they even have a chance to pop unstoppable.
SWs/OPs - dont know enough to comment TBH.
Well what do THESE guys have in common?
- no range
- no real CC
- No immunity frame dodges.
So whats the solution? Post pics about how "its doable" or do we actually look at the REAL issue? BTW, dont know if you thought of this but a "GWF" is supposed to have a "tank path" called the "sentinel" ask your GWF if he can even fathom "tanking" because he will just get 1 shot.... Id imagine the GF "tanking" = him holding KV+Block while the rest of the group CCs+kills everything. Is that really "tanking" or just "buffing the group".
there are not tankable and i can feel the pain as hr with jokes of dodges, most classes dont even have that
Look we had a GWF and no he didn't die more than the rest of the team. Gear was on par with the average gear of the team. But support classes with several layers of mitigation buffs can make the incoming damage completely under control. This isn't a race anymore, the more support characters the better. If my squishy cleric with 17% base DR didn't die from the boss hits (with fox cunning down), there's no way a GWF dies. Sure I had to heal him a bit more than the CW or the ranger, but that's the fate of a melee class.
is a valid question. if this is a matter about a party job and, the only thing of gwf have, damage, is... bizarre, well. destroyer at least is ok for this mad game (not funny, not solid, not clean; ok).
another guy say: "gwf do more damage than a whole party"; is true?
if yes, well :rolleyes:
in single target gwf can somewhat compete as sm destro
Since you keep asking, even if it's off-topic. Yes GWFs are the top damage dealers in the current module. The buff to several at-wills, the new encounter and the 20% weapon damage buff made them top damage again. Clearly above CWs and TRs. They're top damage dealer but somehow still the top 1 QQ class too. There's never enough buffs, according to people who play the class.
I said we downed the final boss to 60% then we had to quit because the lack of gear was an issue. Not everyone had T1 gear from VT/MC, so that was a major cause of trouble, but still we were able to kill the first two bosses and 40% of the final one, so I'd say it's a good measure of the difficulty. It would have been doable with everyone having T1 gear and 80-100K hitpoints instead of 55-60.
The test was "is it impossible" and the answer is nope, if people with ragtags of gear can do that a team with decent gear (as in "decent", not BiS) can do it.
GWD's final boss isn't perfect either. The only issue I see is that it has a tad too much health. 10 minutes with our hobo's gear to down it to 60% is a bit excessive. I'd say it needs something like 20% less hitpoints but an increased arpen and crit resistance, to balance it between the have and the have nots. 15 minutes is a good duration for a boss fight. If it's a raid boss meant to be killed by trained players, you may make it a 25 minutes fight, and it better be the acme of the raid, because beyond that limit, there's the exhaustion factor and people will start doing a lot of mistakes.
is the top one about complains, between some reasons
1 - gwf is no longer fun.
2 - lost your secundary function when some classes have 3 or 4.
and the list goes on. the question here is simple: you say dungeons is fine, balance is fine, everthing is fine. fine for who? if a dungeon annulled my secundary function (or primary function of other classes), so is not fine. the format is not fine. that is all.
about gf if can survive or not just check his encounters -dailies and feats and you will find how to defend ( + ofcourse the help of the team ). i was the gf in that pt.
and i would tank better sorry guys i had a wrong setting in my graphics freezing me fixed:)
Just wanted to chime in on this... Just wanted to say that in Mod 6 SWs can most certainly run CC focused rotations without sacrificing too much DPS. While running through Dungeons I tend to do that if our party comp requires it.
And no range? SWs most definitely have range!
Though sometimes I get overzealous and go all old school in your face melee style with Hand of Blight because...
LEEROY JENKINS!!! :cool:
a few thing that should be amended:
1) 90% hr actualy play trapper... that means switching between melee and range... and most of your damage actualy come from melee so you stay melee or at best one dodge (one SHORT dodge) away from melee even when you swap to ranged bar so considering us ranged is really wrong... and a ranged trapper deal half the damage of archer and buff every 15 second at best... also don't talk about immunity frame to hr... yes short is better than none... but don't talk about that with us
2) gf can actualy survive for a limited amount of time even without CC and massive healing (and a large amount of time with healing alone)... HOW? by using the right daily and class feature... steel defense grant 6 second of immunity to damage every time you use a daily... and as tactician GF you build daily really fast... so just be sure to end a fight with a loaded daily to begin the next one and you'r already halfway done... after this based on the kind of mob/boss you either use villain menace (if there are a lot of CC.. and it also give a 20% additional DR) or fighter recovery (if you see your health drop too fast for your healer to keep up...) you use the immunity frame to pull out your aggro encounter and build treat on mob and before it drops you use one of the new DR enahnce encounter (like IW, enforced treat or bull charge) and up your shield waiting for the daily to fill again (and it will appen pretty fast)
so... sorry but is not just the ranged that can PLAy in this new mod dungeons... as far as GWF goes... I have no imput on that.. I don't play one and none of my friends actualy have one so I can't give you a direct feedback... but still I've met a few good one running pug t1 (for t2 I prefer to go with guild but that doesn't make pug t2 impossible... just that I don't like the lottery of pug where you can get idiots or good player only based on luck ^^') they can't face tank mobs but can still survive one or 2 hit that would actualy send me to the maker (and you shouldn't get more than 2 casaual hit unless your tank is dead or sleeping)... and that while dishing the right amount of damage... sure they don't have extremely good buff or large amount of CC like HR or CW but you don't need 3 controller... 2 is already more than enough and actualy one can solve most of the problem if the GF know what to do...