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Tiamat - Defend the Clerics
marky37
Member Posts: 7 Arc User
I've done Tiamat today and again I've noticed something very annoying while defending the clerics.
I'm playing a trapper HR and I always try to root enemies before they can reach the clerics and keeping them in place by perma-rotting them.
But always when a whole enemygroup gets rooted, there is a CW or DC, who pushes them away, releasing them from root.
The mobs aren't moving for 5 sec and everyone is casting AoE attacks on them and still there is someone, who thinks it's a good idea to spread them all over the place, so they can again start a new attack on clerics.
I don't even know why CWs are using Ice Storm instead of Arcane Singularity; Grouped enemies are killed way faster than hunting down single targets.
I know there is not always a trapper HR at every cleric and I don't want to say pushing enemies is wrong, but please when you see a full rooted group let them be and don't make it more difficult for others.
I'm playing a trapper HR and I always try to root enemies before they can reach the clerics and keeping them in place by perma-rotting them.
But always when a whole enemygroup gets rooted, there is a CW or DC, who pushes them away, releasing them from root.
The mobs aren't moving for 5 sec and everyone is casting AoE attacks on them and still there is someone, who thinks it's a good idea to spread them all over the place, so they can again start a new attack on clerics.
I don't even know why CWs are using Ice Storm instead of Arcane Singularity; Grouped enemies are killed way faster than hunting down single targets.
I know there is not always a trapper HR at every cleric and I don't want to say pushing enemies is wrong, but please when you see a full rooted group let them be and don't make it more difficult for others.
Post edited by marky37 on
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Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
But honestly most players don't even think about making the game easier or helping other players that much. I mean sure, some people are more than happy to help carry newer players through T1 dungeons during Delves, but how many others are just spamming for PK runs and kicking people below 18k gs out? A significantly larger amount.
And also to be fair, most players might not even realise the mobs were rooted down or that you had TT activated, Tiamat is really lag heavy and a lot of the time I have to turn my settings to the minimum just to be able to preserve some modicum of playability.
Complete:
- The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class
Under Work:
- The Primal Totemist
- The Wild Sorcerer
- The Summoning Binder
Also all those frosty Oppressor CWs will feel with you, too. But that debate has been recycled all over these forums over and over again. Problem #1 - not everybody in Tis runs has read that. Problem #2 - even if, people here start the escalation spiral going "Yes." - "No." - "Yes!!!" - "Nooooo..." Problem #3: Even if you could arrive at some consensus, the group would then be mixed thoroughly with everybody and their Grandma upon passing the Temple door...
...so all we can do is preach.
Also helpful in this context: chat up those people bowling the baddies around and explain the problem after the run. Frequently this simply results from sheer ignorance of what the other classes can and will do, what this effects, and what graphics and animations go along with that... ...every second guy will maybe learn from that debate, especially if you keep it toned down, polite, and informative.
Now it is better than knockback only be used to keep the mobs from attacking the clerics, and not knocking them out of roots. Sometimes however in order to stop one mob from attacking, multiple mobs will be hit, there is no helping it.
My own experience is that most people have no idea what is going on, and just want to focus on killing mobs, meanwhile the cleric is on its face. So, don't get too angry with people doing things you don't understand, it may be you who is confused.
When i know, who is frequently using pushbacks and also writing it in Say channel i tell them it's more efficiently to not scatter mobs around.
@felixkam: I'm always lowring graphics when entering Tiamat but the roots are pretty easy to see, so I hope some CWs will read this and maybe consider to use Singularity more often, cause i LOVE it when they use it
Typically, in the situation I'm describing, I have the aggro of the mobs due to rooting them the instant they spawn. I can solo a cleric because I keep them rooted at where they spawn and because all my damage is over time and AoE they almost always die at approximately the same time. As a result they also spawn at the same time, allowing me to repeat the process. Don't really get angry over it, I just accept it and keep the largest cluster I can find rooted down after the knock back.
Complete:
- The Monk - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?865991-The-Monk-A-Relatively-Detailed-Proposal-for-a-New-Class
Under Work:
- The Primal Totemist
- The Wild Sorcerer
- The Summoning Binder
These players are not total liabilities. Due to double spawning at Linu and being close the edge, knocking is very effective at filling the meter fast. However many low GS players are scared of dying and instead bring their knocking to Dreamer/Moondancer.
Why is knocking at spawn point bad at Dreamer/Moondancer? There's only 1 spawn, and a single good CW can lock everything down while players can kill them quickly. These low DPS knockers do not think about other players. When they knock the adds, they will jump/teleport back to the aggro holder. These jumps can do a lot of damage, and can potentially kill the aggro holder. The CW who exhausted his encounters to control which are on cooldown is faced with having to dodge the adds or get hit hard. Same for melee players, they are capable of grabbing aggro and dpsing adds down fast but with no range powers, the knocked away adds can jump them and kill them.
Unfortunately from PUGs to Legit channel players, I tell them when their knocking is counter productive or dragging out the cleric phase but have always been ignored. The worst thing I have done is abandon the cleric I was defending because after locking down all the adds, a DC despite numerous reminders and tells would come into the spawn point and Sunburst. And it was in an instance where good players were lacking and the Cleric phase dragged out. What followed was a mess as the cleric and the other defending players kept dying without their CW to lock down the adds.
Sure, but...
I'm playing (as one alt) a TR. Archer. Split Shot. It is, sidestep and attack from a slightly different angle. No problem at all, takes a bit of consideration, but...
...it would probably be faster for all if that single baddy takes one single swipe at the cleric. If it's "KB - or killing the red with two at-wills or maybe three?", I'd go for the kill. Rarely my decision because I'm at the spawn debuffing, CCing, or trying to get the aggro.
Why does killing them, and, preferrably, killing them all, fast, and in a short timespan work better?
The Devils respawn after a probably fixed time after their demise. Either fixed or identical for the whole mob. So when and if you kill them all within 5 seconds, they will respawn all more or less at once. Kill them, time to heal, cooldowns tick down, etc. - next wave. rinse repeat.
If some player scatters them all over the place this doesn't work. Then they come in in singles or small lumps, it's nigh impossible to CC them all,, and the game gets hectical. you're in constant combat (no quick 3 potion full heal e.g.), and have to kill them all piecemeal, because there's always the next straggler respawning. Also some will inevitably be scattered all across the place, and they'll be everywhere when the head phase starts. So mounting your steed to ride fast to the black head doesn't work - combat block. Everybody has to walk, which prolongs the head phase significantly. Damaged or weaker chars might even get themselves killed.
Now if you don't use KB, and especially if you have e,.g. an Icy Terrain casting CW around - directly after spawn freeze them, fry them, make them die then. 20 or 30 secs or so break - next wave. like 5 or 6 times, among other factors dependent on how well the other clerics fare. Much nicer, cleaner, faster.
And one only single ignorant player using KB can wreck it, unless you have severe killing power chasing and bringing down the castaways real fast. Which is the only weak point of that scheme...
Yeah sure, you can still win most of the time, but it's messy and slow, typically. Do it KB free, and you'll be done during head phase 2. (Some good DPS and debuffing presumed...)
As one of the CW's that no longer uses Singularity, I can tell you why: 2 second casting time while the mobs can attack you and a target cap of 8 (and mobs can charge out of it while they're being dragged). Since the mobs in Tiamat are somewhat control resistant (not as bad as IWD or WoD), I won't bother. I have 2 dailies, Ice Knife & Oppressive Force, Singularity would have to be good enough to displace one of those. Singularity also has the unfortunate quirk of suppressing certain CW spells on the Singularities targets (Sudden Storm, Shard, & Oppressive Force), so that makes it a good way to kill friendly mages (no damage = no lifesteal). Normally 2 characters can camp a spawn point and control it (I've done it while playing a GWF and also while playing CW).
Furious Immolation is as things currently stand, far superior, provided you feat it and are a Master of Flame.
One detail players miss is that killing the spawned mobs quickly is counter productive. They respawn. Don't hurry....
we could not kill the first spawn,because this DC was SB them like crazy
it was a fail,we told him/her to stop use something else.it was like talking to a tree stump
some ppl dont get it how to play in a group
the tactic is group them and kill them,its no rocket science(sadly for some it is)
Icestorm happy CW is another problem
some times I want to cry when I see all the effort the other guyz put in to group the devils,and this DC/CW come and spread them like peanutbutter
the only thing you can do is walk away and dont look back,because talking aint gonig to help
LOLwut?
Then you kill them again, where's the problem??? What is there "counterproductive"?
A dead Devil doesn't attack the cleric, only live ones do. So, if and and when you kill them in like 3-7 seconds all is safe for the poor spellcasting cleric. If you wanna go all cat-style and play with the mice, do that outdoors in WoD or whereever you like...
On a different note: Sunburst is really good in Tia's - when used divinely. Debuffs all the Devils on one spawn point real fast, and adds nice DoT, then follow up with whatever you prefer...
..which happened to me ever so often when using dSB. Super-smart ppl flamed me - even though they could clearly see that I didn't knock the reds back a single time, and no other DC around.
Greatest fail cases, however, are the G(W)Fs who insist on using all their kinetic tricks and treats. While this is sweet and funny and entertaining elsewhere,...
I've seen a GF make a train with them and not have to fight them for most of the defense phase. So if you can control them without killing them very quickly, you have fewer cycles of spawns, so fewer chances for an accident. Admittedly the risk of losing control is the catch.....
The problem is when they respawn, they instantly charge the cleric. If there just happens to be dragon breath on the area and no one rooting, icy terrain or whatever then the cleric gets hit.
If however someone is locking them down, then they aren't attacking the cleric and the bar keeps moving.
Pushing them away will only make us loose time , but i think it's too late , all CWs DCs get used to this stupid idea .
So much so that I have taken to replacing Chains with Searing Light for my DC.