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Some interesting insights into the GWF
mirrorballs
Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
I've been a TR for almost the entirety of my NW days, since the early days of mod2:Shadowmantle and its release in January of 2014. During those times I've tried to produce a few alts, but nothing really interested me, and hence my understanding of other classes were always limited to the point of view from a player that needed to fight them... and boy, since it was none other than mod2 where the GWFs were literally "unstoppable" in every way, you can guess what kind of PTSD that gives to people since most people nowadays seem to get the same thing from us TRs.
Hence, my personal project for the last month and continuing, was to grab old alt characters which I've not paid much attention to in more than a year's time, and then use all my knowledge as a TR to see if I can "reverse-engineer" builds/tactics for other classes to fight against TRs with a different perspective not influenced by previous builds/tactics without any outside influence. So far, its been an interesting ride, and in the process I think I can point out just what exactly the problem with current GWFs are.
For one thing, in many of the forum discussions considering mod5 TRs the self-professed GWF players are among the most vocal, raging, and short-tempered bunch I have ever seen... but hey, before people start raging again, I think I get it. If anything, the old mod2 GWF had the same importance and status as us TRs, and they held the power to control the fight and influence it towards an outcome as they see fit. Both TRs and GWFs were dominating influences of the battlefield. But now, that's all gone. In all honesty the same should have happened to mod5 TRs. We were supposed to be more interesting to play, but not necessarily hold this much power. But broken mechanics surfaced, along with broken stuff like AP artifacts and such.
Now, the new DCs and the new TRs, with all their "new and improved" stuff, they still hold as much power as they did as the previous mods. Both these classes which were supposed to be balanced, became even stronger as a result... and when someone who has been a GWF since those mod2 days compares their beloved class to the DCs and TRs and sees how much its changed -- I think I get it. It burns. Seems unfair, don't it?
At least, that's the impression I got from playing my old GWF, ungeared and unspecced, not even lv60, and just at the mercy of my teammates. I've written down similar comments before, but the biggest difference I feel when I play my main TR, and my CW (also part of the project), is that it's not how CWs are necessarily weak or putty against TRs or anything... but rather it's the feel of loss of control that impacts me the hardest.
When playing a TR, I don't really need to pay attention to my teammates. TRs are lonewolves and capable of acting as one, hence I do my job disrupting opponent nodes and the rest of the team does theirs. I'm equipped to fight against many people - or at least survive against many - so I don't require any real "teamwork". Yes, teamwork is still much appreciated, but I don't require all that tight and experienced teams to help me survive. If anything, I myself, usually hold more power in that I can control the flow of the fight by luring enemies to the back node. How well I do directly influences the game, so I feel important.
When I play the CW, I feel all out of control, because no matter how well I do, I still need my teammates to help me survive in many situations. Sometimes, when I see my less experienced teammates doing stupid, idiotic things, I'm powerless to stop them, nor do I have any way of offsetting that stupidity with my power alone. I've actually found it not too difficult to fight 1vs1 against a TR of similar gear level, but the really, really difficult things is keeping my teammates in line so they may perform better, and only when they can do that, I can also reach my full power in the match and fight, survive, get kills and win. Sometimes, it feels like I'm shackled to others who constantly drag me down or bring me up. Many times I feel powerless to influence the match and get it headed to a better direction when all the other players are so abysmal.
While playing the GWF, I feel the same thing, and it is perhaps the same feeling you GWF players get -- especially those who remember what it was like to be a GWF in mod2, having all that power to control the fight and influence it, and feel that you are actually contributing to your team's win. For certain I can't feel any of that when I play my GWF right now. Again, combat itself isn't much of a problem, but rather what's the real problem is that the way how my GWF can fight and survive is -- just like in playing the CW -- totally shackled along with other players.
In a sense, it means that the team-play aspect is that much important now. But in another sense, it means the class doesn't have any real "bang" for the buck, hence the only real way to be at least partially successful is hope for a team that understands how to play domination -- in which case with proper support and cooperative fighting, you finally get to taste a little of what it was like in the past.
...
So I guess I'm feeling a lot more sympathetic to the GWF users now, as well as with extensive testings/experience with all of the powers all over again, I've now also gained some specific, technical analyses in regards to just why the GWFs feel so powerless these days. Maybe I'll try to discuss that in some other thread... but to summarize it:
...
IMO, if this direction of GWF class design is to persist, then the devs need to give GWFs a total makeover to each of the paragon feats of Instigator, Destroyer and Sentinel just like the TRs received. Currently, these three feat paths are consisted of a slew of passive trait increases such as minor increase in damage or survival. Long time ago, the TR feat paths were also the same.
But now, look at the TR Sabo - Scoundrel - Exec feats. They've all changed into direct combat-related special functions and utilities. The Sabo gets stuff like piercing damage and stealth boosting utilities into their feats that directly influence how the tab ability is used. The Scoundrel adds daze mechanics to its attacks, as well as an altered/special function of daze to its encounters. The Exec receives special augmentations to stealth as well as immense damage boost.
Compared to what the GWFs (or any "old" classes for that matter), the renewed TRs and DCs have their 3 different paths full of feats that directly influence combat and performance in a very intuitive way.
Come to think of it, there are a LOT of attack powers the TRs also have, but in their encounters slots 2 of them are survival utilities and usually only one real attack power. And yet, the boosts from the feats provide a strong enough damage as well as combat efficiency to make up for it.
If the non-Sentinel GWFs are to be this way, if the GWFs also becomes to need to slot survival utilities into their encounter slots to function, then obviously their Instigator/Destroyer feats must provide for them special and meaningful combat utilities and damage boosts strong enough to make up for their need.
Hands down, GWFs need a makeover. Obviously the devs aren't going to simply reset everything and allow the GWFs to go back to mod2 days. They're gonna stick with this line/concept of changes. In that case, the best bet for the GWF players, IMO, is to ask for a total redesign, Instigator/Destroyer feat makeovers that provide boosts and utilities directly combat related, instead of the "lower enemy resistance by 5%", or "give combat advantage for 7 seconds" sort of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it currently is.
...this would be my most recent opinion of GWFs.
Hence, my personal project for the last month and continuing, was to grab old alt characters which I've not paid much attention to in more than a year's time, and then use all my knowledge as a TR to see if I can "reverse-engineer" builds/tactics for other classes to fight against TRs with a different perspective not influenced by previous builds/tactics without any outside influence. So far, its been an interesting ride, and in the process I think I can point out just what exactly the problem with current GWFs are.
For one thing, in many of the forum discussions considering mod5 TRs the self-professed GWF players are among the most vocal, raging, and short-tempered bunch I have ever seen... but hey, before people start raging again, I think I get it. If anything, the old mod2 GWF had the same importance and status as us TRs, and they held the power to control the fight and influence it towards an outcome as they see fit. Both TRs and GWFs were dominating influences of the battlefield. But now, that's all gone. In all honesty the same should have happened to mod5 TRs. We were supposed to be more interesting to play, but not necessarily hold this much power. But broken mechanics surfaced, along with broken stuff like AP artifacts and such.
Now, the new DCs and the new TRs, with all their "new and improved" stuff, they still hold as much power as they did as the previous mods. Both these classes which were supposed to be balanced, became even stronger as a result... and when someone who has been a GWF since those mod2 days compares their beloved class to the DCs and TRs and sees how much its changed -- I think I get it. It burns. Seems unfair, don't it?
At least, that's the impression I got from playing my old GWF, ungeared and unspecced, not even lv60, and just at the mercy of my teammates. I've written down similar comments before, but the biggest difference I feel when I play my main TR, and my CW (also part of the project), is that it's not how CWs are necessarily weak or putty against TRs or anything... but rather it's the feel of loss of control that impacts me the hardest.
When playing a TR, I don't really need to pay attention to my teammates. TRs are lonewolves and capable of acting as one, hence I do my job disrupting opponent nodes and the rest of the team does theirs. I'm equipped to fight against many people - or at least survive against many - so I don't require any real "teamwork". Yes, teamwork is still much appreciated, but I don't require all that tight and experienced teams to help me survive. If anything, I myself, usually hold more power in that I can control the flow of the fight by luring enemies to the back node. How well I do directly influences the game, so I feel important.
When I play the CW, I feel all out of control, because no matter how well I do, I still need my teammates to help me survive in many situations. Sometimes, when I see my less experienced teammates doing stupid, idiotic things, I'm powerless to stop them, nor do I have any way of offsetting that stupidity with my power alone. I've actually found it not too difficult to fight 1vs1 against a TR of similar gear level, but the really, really difficult things is keeping my teammates in line so they may perform better, and only when they can do that, I can also reach my full power in the match and fight, survive, get kills and win. Sometimes, it feels like I'm shackled to others who constantly drag me down or bring me up. Many times I feel powerless to influence the match and get it headed to a better direction when all the other players are so abysmal.
While playing the GWF, I feel the same thing, and it is perhaps the same feeling you GWF players get -- especially those who remember what it was like to be a GWF in mod2, having all that power to control the fight and influence it, and feel that you are actually contributing to your team's win. For certain I can't feel any of that when I play my GWF right now. Again, combat itself isn't much of a problem, but rather what's the real problem is that the way how my GWF can fight and survive is -- just like in playing the CW -- totally shackled along with other players.
In a sense, it means that the team-play aspect is that much important now. But in another sense, it means the class doesn't have any real "bang" for the buck, hence the only real way to be at least partially successful is hope for a team that understands how to play domination -- in which case with proper support and cooperative fighting, you finally get to taste a little of what it was like in the past.
...
So I guess I'm feeling a lot more sympathetic to the GWF users now, as well as with extensive testings/experience with all of the powers all over again, I've now also gained some specific, technical analyses in regards to just why the GWFs feel so powerless these days. Maybe I'll try to discuss that in some other thread... but to summarize it:
-
pre-nerf, around mod2-mod3 days, the GWFs had OP levels of very strong defense that relied on given, passive stats
-
in a nutshell, this allowed GWFs to open up all 3 encounter slots that were oriented towards maximum offensive capabilities, multiple CCs and hard-hitting attacks.
-
hence, the 'old' GWFs basically had superb attacks and impenetrable defenses, which made them such strong classes
-
nowadays, acknowledging the problems with extreme level of defenses, the devs have nerfed down the passive defensive stats
-
the problem is, they've never really compensated, or even "balanced" this out by redesigning or tweaking the existing encounters or paragon feats
-
the end result is that in order for non-Sentinel GWFs to gain enough survivability, they need to invest almost all three encounter slots to self-buff types of powers, which makes them lose offensive capability drastically. Otherwise, if those encounter slots are invested towards the offensive, it turns a GWF into a poor man's version of a ranged "glass cannon" -- a "glass sword" if you will -- that cracks and shatters half-way through before even getting the chance to close in and deal any damage. Unlike ranged classes, melees have it tough in this aspect
-
however, if they do invest in survivability, this means the non-Sentinel GWF is simply castrated in terms of offensive power, without any means of real control or methods to gain opportunity to attack in the first place. With such investments it may survive a little longer, but ultimately still futile in that without CCs or hard-hitting powers it is difficult to expect GWFs to be bringing down enemies by just sprinting up to them and swinging at-wills
...
IMO, if this direction of GWF class design is to persist, then the devs need to give GWFs a total makeover to each of the paragon feats of Instigator, Destroyer and Sentinel just like the TRs received. Currently, these three feat paths are consisted of a slew of passive trait increases such as minor increase in damage or survival. Long time ago, the TR feat paths were also the same.
But now, look at the TR Sabo - Scoundrel - Exec feats. They've all changed into direct combat-related special functions and utilities. The Sabo gets stuff like piercing damage and stealth boosting utilities into their feats that directly influence how the tab ability is used. The Scoundrel adds daze mechanics to its attacks, as well as an altered/special function of daze to its encounters. The Exec receives special augmentations to stealth as well as immense damage boost.
Compared to what the GWFs (or any "old" classes for that matter), the renewed TRs and DCs have their 3 different paths full of feats that directly influence combat and performance in a very intuitive way.
Come to think of it, there are a LOT of attack powers the TRs also have, but in their encounters slots 2 of them are survival utilities and usually only one real attack power. And yet, the boosts from the feats provide a strong enough damage as well as combat efficiency to make up for it.
If the non-Sentinel GWFs are to be this way, if the GWFs also becomes to need to slot survival utilities into their encounter slots to function, then obviously their Instigator/Destroyer feats must provide for them special and meaningful combat utilities and damage boosts strong enough to make up for their need.
Hands down, GWFs need a makeover. Obviously the devs aren't going to simply reset everything and allow the GWFs to go back to mod2 days. They're gonna stick with this line/concept of changes. In that case, the best bet for the GWF players, IMO, is to ask for a total redesign, Instigator/Destroyer feat makeovers that provide boosts and utilities directly combat related, instead of the "lower enemy resistance by 5%", or "give combat advantage for 7 seconds" sort of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it currently is.
...this would be my most recent opinion of GWFs.
Post edited by mirrorballs on
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Comments
they wont do this. theyll just make a new class like they did with the gf's
So the situation is far worst that you think. And GWF has problem only with TRs. Other classes are pretty close and balanced. I dont mention unkillable DC and SW becouse they dont press the rage button in GWF mind. You dont die instantly with no means to defend...
Steel and Magic
Be that as it may, it seems in a wider scope of things, the current skill set the GWF is stuck with just reeks of "old and outdated", if you get what I mean. Buff/debuff/utilities are very small, doesn't make any real difference (except just one or two powers which are given massive amounts like CAGI), attacks are slow and glitchy, and at-wills other than the most basic Sure Strike are just horrible.
The feats are also horrible, which IMO shows us a very classic assortment of feats which has never been really perked up since a long time. Almost all of them are small passive bonuses, instead of how TR Sabos get powerful damage multipliers and stealth boosts, Scoundrels get daze-traits, and Executioners get 1-shot power. To the GWF IMO this would be equivalent to stuff like:
(1) powers that extend Unstoppable duration / potency
(2) utilities like slows being added as proc to each attacks
(3) special block/deflect mechanics associated active power use for more defense
(4) special feat/mechanics that return stamina for more active and aggressive sprint use
...and etc etc. Like said, the current small bonuses like "5% more damage" or "5% more crit chance" or "stacking 2% buffs" and etc etc.. these don't really cut it. The class needs active, aggressive, directly combat-related stuff.
of course the totally nonsense introduction of piercing damage
bad players crying so much about unstoppable it got turned into a useless mechanic. It was GWF class mechanic. And it was simple: you hit the big guy, the big guy becomes "hulk". You need to focus DPS in big bursts in between unstoppables. Allowed the GWF to actually fight, and allowed the enemy to counter it. But. Players, CWs in particular, wanted to just pew-pew spam DPS on the GWF and see it go down. So, instead of fixing the real issues (regenerative capabilities, old TRsuh and FLS, Roar bug) the flat out turned it into an empty visual effect.
I mean seriously, what did you guys expected after module 4 changes? You cried so much about Roar it got not just fixed, it got turned to nothing. Talking to TRs here. You (CWs) cried so much about "spammable" unstoppable that they overnerfed it from 2 sides: determination gain and mechanic. And the funny part is that good players already could counter unstoppable just by playing smart and burst DPS in between unstoppables. Only bad players used to spam at-wills, making the GWF more powerful. It was a smart and fun mechanic: you focus DPS, you are smart, the big guy goes down after getting angry a couple of times. You keep spamming puny hits en-masse, the big guy gets bigger and kills you. The issues were others in module 3, not unstoppable. GWF after tenacity and healing depression introduction was in the right spot: you could kill it if you could use your brain that much.
But bad players who just wanted to roll their faces on the keyboard got what they wanted and GWFs were robbed of their class mechanic. Entirely.
Now you have your free kill. Just spam your piercing damage and laugh. Have fun.
SW and GWF
i enjoy them both.
but pvp is totally ****ed up.
i tell ya no <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> way should a rogue be able to practically 1 hit a flipping off tank melee class. that big *** knife skill you guys use is absolutely ******ed.
rangers? very evasive hard to deal with but manageable.
GF i like to fight these guys its a duke it out for the both of us.
don't enjoy fighting GWF its pretty much the one with the better gear wins.
warlocks well dont see em often. but they do the same thing over and over at my lvl which is curse and DT.
CW anoying as *** but after they chunked half my health i can move in for the kill. (if i do it right)
TR i mean who the *** thought this is balanced? WHO THE ***.
show me the guy/gall that can tell me with a straight face from the dev team that says rogues are balanced.
they got the CC from CW their own godly damage and the evasiveness of rangers. and its not like you can 1 shot them (unless you are a TR yourself) they dodge half the stuff you throw at them.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Now even in the past GWF never was OP really. There were specific builds that you needed to pick, and paths and feats. With a classical, DnD-minded build you were going nowhere. It always was about sideways builds, using synergies that devs created but were not aware of. So, by creating a whole build entirely centered around Deep Gash you were ok. Later by creating a build entirely centered around Intimidation you were ok. That was always niche builds, GWF never was intrinsically OP or even ok.
It does not matter any more really. With Mod6, GWF is extinct.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
1) Weak damage, mediocre survivability. GWF was a useless class all players laughed at in both PvE and PvP.
2) Regeneration Sentinel PvP builds discovered. Immortal tanks with mediocre damage, kitable. Mainly enemy node harrassers, DPS not a real threat except for tenebrous builds. After tenebrous nerf, only immortal tanks.
3) Iron Vanguard introduced. Unkitable immortal tanks with good DPS. Overpowered build. Could easily engage multiple enemies. Smart gameplay in premades could make them killable but still required 2-3 focused and experienced players. Plus deep gash bug. GWF peak, if you ask me, right after module 2 release.
4) Tenacity introduced: unkitable, slowly killable tanks with good DPS. Still Overpowered build 1v1, could be cancelled easily with smart team play.
5) Deep Gash fixed. Destroyer capstone reworked. Bugged Roar. Roar-spamming destroyer builds with high DPS. Overpowered 1v1, but good premade teams could easily cancel this build.
6) Module 4, module 5. Intimidation builds good only at very high gear levels. Very high burst but easy to kill by other classes. Class in a messy state.
7) Module 6: seems like the involution is complete. Class back to point 1).
Main cause of the loss of survivability is just the lack of knowledge of players and lack of ability of game developers.
Funny thing is i repeated, and other GWFs with me, over and over to players such as the OP, to actually try to play the class, when they kept saying GWF was fine, just needed to "L2P" cause they met some 24k overgeared guy fully potted and oh my god, he was able to hit so hard.
Then the same players actually try the class and discover we are actually right.
GG. I'll repeat it: you didn't even try to listen. Now enjoy your free kill, you helped the devs to destroy the class with your nonsense, uninformed and egoistic feedback.
You can count the many times me and other GWFs tried explaining in details the issues the class faced after module 4.
I spent a lot of time trying to explain nab players how to counter unstoppable and what the real issues were.
Only to receive arrogant answers and "learn2playyourclass" replies.
The result was module 4 overnerf to the class.
Now sorry if the patience is over.
Not like it's all your fault. Devs never really put some real efforts to balance the GWF class.
GWF class was ruined with module 4 due to bad players giving bad feedback and devs being bad at balancing stuff.
We tried to explain, other classes' players answered with arrogance every time.
Even with all the destruction brought by module 4 changes, all you could read was "nerf intimidation" as soon as the builds surfaced.
CWs, TRs are, with obvious exceptions, very spoiled communities.
NWO community in general, does not listen. And i'm done trying to explain stuff to people who is not interested in listening. I've been posting for 1 year and a half now. Trying to explain, find a balance, give real insight and feedback while playing the class as my main.
Happy you discovered by yourself what i, and many others, have been repeating to you all since months.
But now it's too late. Class is ruined completely for 2 full modules now and even worst in the new incoming module 6.
If you think the devs will magically put some effort in reworking fighters, i'm happy for you. Hope you see it happening.
yea with good reason from what im reading here
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
in general from what i've seen weapon master is getting some pretty big buff's no longer reduced damage during unstoppable and the damage reduction for multiple enemies hit is gone as well.
that being said doesn't really adress the issues with weapon master imo its a step in the right direction but it doesn't address the issue that it's far to clunky to use efficiently.
Our Problem isnt just damage, Our survivability is sub-par to any other class in the game, Except maybe mod 6 warlocks, and at least they are a ranged mage with targeted skills aoe damage and a tanking pet, so in reality unless they try to facetank theyre more survivable than us also.
I posted an example in a different thread, I manage to basically match the DPS of my 21k GWF with P vorpal and full rank 8's (radiant and azure/dark) with a 14.3k Rogue with no Vorpal or high rank enchants using what would normally happen in a fight if all hits landed (rogue uses 4 at will hits (CoS) then lashing blade, GWF lands Takedown, Fls, and IBS CRIT with a sure strike or two.)
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
We've all noticed this.
Still don't know yet which of my alts will become my main instead of my 21k Gwf. The 12k TR or the 15k CW? Too bad my Lathander set cannot be given. My Gwf will become a dust bunny with a Lathander set.
Does someone have a tip, how I force my PvE rightous DC friends to respec and play PvP?^^
WMS use in PvP is usually 1 hit debuff fast before rotating. Few GWFs use swordmaster in PvP BTW. Flourish is too slow and easy to dodge for PvP compared to FLS, even if it hits for more.
Destroyers usually go Iron Vanguard.
Intimidation builds too to avoid being kited too much and also buff intimidation through trample of the fallen, using FLS-->intimidation rotation.
You rarely see WMS being used in PvP and also AoE damage buff does not affect PvP since in PvP it's mainly about single target damage.
I do IV in PvP because If I didnt have threatening rush I'd have NO gap closing skills at all. we need something like bull rush or the GF lunge on an encounter so we have a targetted option for catching people. Savage advance is a great daily. But the animation is so obvious that any half decent PvP player can dodge it.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
you gotta forgive me i keep re rolling my fighter so i never actually got that far.
i was thinking this time to just go and stack as much defense/deflect as possible and go for IV sentinel route.
Punishing charge in PvP? Sure, if you want to punish yourself, go ahead. It does as much damage as 1 sure strike hit if not lower and the distance it travels is pathetic. Only use for it is in PvE dungeons where you got to fight hordes of adds. It has no target limit and its AP gain is great.
Battle Fury or Restoring Strike is what you should slot if you need more mobility for PvP. Ofc, landing restoring strike can be a challenge unless you're fighting some pugs who haven't heard of shift key.
ow ok yea that makes sense.
wow i guess sure strike must be overpowered then.:rolleyes:
can stack up at much defense as you want but come level 70 mod 6 you'll have under 30% dr and under 30% deflect. also with all the piercing damage and control it doesnt matter anyway.
also punishing charge would need to go about twice as far or be able to have it targetted on an enemy to really make it useful, and probably at least triple its current damage also. I've only ever used it in PvE once for a Ap gain build
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Pando, we should be friends. Its nice to meet someone who has been around since #1 and has seen all of this an understands it all. Its very frustrating.
The only thing I would add is in your #6, you forgot to address all the painful nerfs we had.
So ill re-phrase
6) Module 4 comes out, DEVs take away every tool GWFs used in module 3. Roar no longer worked. Base damage of nearly all our abilities reduced. Removed our prones on both abilities, nerfed our "tab" ability by 40%. It was pure dumb luck and over sight on DEVs part giving a tool like intimidation - that I really believe was not MEANT to benefit off damage multipliers initially. Then when they learned of the uber power stack 1 shot GWF builds, they nerfed intimidation down to what it is today - a PUG stomping machine but ONLY if BIS geared and easily countered by other BIS geared players.
Now module 6, we are back to square 1 again. Fact of the matter is, GWFs and TRs are both one of those classes that require FINE balance. The TR today is a perfect example of slightly too strong powers causing massive OPness and mod 3 GWF was another perfect example.
In fact module 3 GWF was the CLOSEST to being balanced with a FEW small tweaks (like Unstoppable Recovery and the T1 pvp set not respecting healing depression coupled with 8 second Roar that was "piercing Control" if that makes sense). If they merely tweaked those small things the class would be considered competitive today instead of worthless...
We can only hope that the DEVs read the forums and SEE this feedback.
Hahaha thanks! I also enjoyed a lot your testing videos when when tenacity was introduced and always liked your feedback on the class. Too bad the devs never listened...
I dont talk much nor post much but that's because I only know how to 'handle' the class as is, but not the indepth knowledge of how to alter the class to make it better, hence I chose to refrain from posting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ideas, you two are however very different, you have very clear and indepth understanding about the class, you know what adjustments are to be made to balance the class better but not overpowered, I am sure one day you guys' ideas will be passed down to devs and GWF would be a even more fun class to play with!
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
that feat turns into a stun in pvp, and also gets reduced by tenacity...... and deflect.....
Well the dev in charge recently posted that he does read, and then he added.... 20% more running speed when unstoppable.
Go figure.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Takedown should get back prone, and Roar should get stun and +3s longer cooldown. It would revitalise those skills.
Steel and Magic
this is essentially what my early feedback about GWF's in preview instilled right here.