Balance issue

norcaine1990 · February 2015

It's meant to be a constructive thread, not a rant one.

In mod 6, will there really be any reason to take SW over CW?. Let me just point few things out to highlight the issue:

CWs have:
- INSANE aoe damage tied with next line which is...
- CC (self explanatory)
(also, CC and damage was something you'd like to separate - well, Icy Terrain and Steal Time proves otherwise)
- great defence capabilities (shift that provides IMMUNITY frame and you can slot Shield for added survivability)
- enchanced survivability through lifesteal even after the latest LS ajustment
- OK/strong single damage capability

SWs have:
- medicore aoe damage
- basicly non-existant CC (i know no SW that uses any of CC encounters in PvE)
- poor defences (shift gives you 30% DR + cc immunity which means you still take damage and can die)
- superb survivability through lifesteal which is going to get torn apart in mod 6 and will leave SWs basicly defenceless as this class survivability RELIES on lifesteal
- superb single damage capability

Now, CWs will be given awesome feats for even MORE damage + Disintegrate which is absurdly powerfull single target encounter. AoE LS asjustment won't hurt them THAT badly since they still hit multiple targets at time and each can trigger it so it's no biggie for them.

SWs on the other hand will be given Arms of Hadar (or rather Arm of Harmlessness), which is going to have it's cooldown increased for each consecutive use, each and every LS change hits SWs in the jewels leaving them vulnerable yet there's no compensation for it.

Not to mention SWs casting times which are also bull at this point.

So my point stands
I understand that PBE changes are tenative and are subject to change but unless SWs problems will get addressed, in the upcoming new mod there will be absolutely NO reason to roll a SW over CW.

TL;DR

SWs need:
- survivability check after lifesteal nerf (double strike against SWs) - and it's needed ASAP as SWs defense rely on LS (there's more than Temptation SW btw

)
- casting time reduction on their skills

Bonus objective:
- Blades of the Vanquished Armies NOT being interrupted after being cast (it's a presistent effect, no reason for any CC to cancel it)

zeusom · February 2015

I see dark clouds for SW from here.
Looks as though Level 70 SW as is will all but die as a pvp class in Mod 6.
Already they are in severe need of buff for pvp at Level 60.
No substantial survivability boost at level 70 as proposed.

Lifesteal/Regen change and great dmg inrease of other dmg classes = SW survivability de facto nerf.

They are squishy sheep, bah, again and again to the slaughter.
Shadow slip and cast times need major buff/rework for SW to be competitive pvp.

Every other class can dodge/block except sw.
So if not dodge/block, shadow slip needs to break CC stun/daze/choke/root.

goldenregis · February 2015

First off, SW have survivability through more than just lifesteal, they often have 10k more HP than CWs which will only get high lighted with level 70 gear.
Second, the new Warlock feats will increase damage as well, 5% DR debuff on lesser curse, 20% more power, 10% AP for a party member? The soul puppet feat tree needs some work, but compared to the CWs feats that only buff themselves the Warlocks will net more DPS.
Thirdly, Shadow slip is exactly like the GWF sprint.

I completely agree cast times need to be reworked, lots of encounters/dailies can be interrupted too easily on a SW. But I do not agree CWs outclass SWs. They fill different abilities.
As a side note, if you use TT you can get better AoE than a CW. it doesn't work the best in places like CN, but against bosses I'd much rather have a party with 2 SWs than 2 CWs.

zeusom · February 2015

teribad15 wrote: »

my GWF dodge so darn good those cat moves and stuff!

Ok, true. GWF no dodge but GWF has frequent unstoppable and can be very tank.

zeusom · February 2015

goldenregis wrote: »

First off, SW have survivability through more than just lifesteal, they often have 10k more HP than CWs which will only get high lighted with level 70 gear.
Second, the new Warlock feats will increase damage as well, 5% DR debuff on lesser curse, 20% more power, 10% AP for a party member? The soul puppet feat tree needs some work, but compared to the CWs feats that only buff themselves the Warlocks will net more DPS.
Thirdly, Shadow slip is exactly like the GWF sprint.

I completely agree cast times need to be reworked, lots of encounters/dailies can be interrupted too easily on a SW. But I do not agree CWs outclass SWs. They fill different abilities.
As a side note, if you use TT you can get better AoE than a CW. it doesn't work the best in places like CN, but against bosses I'd much rather have a party with 2 SWs than 2 CWs.

The 5% damage resistance is a class feature that must be slotted - not so great. Must be slotted at the significant expense of dps - which is really the only thing SW can 'do'.

CW vs SW well.. PvE and PvP are two different discussions.
For PvP a CW is much better as a class, no doubt about it.
CW has a lower HP pool but they have nearly instant cast times, lots of CC, and they can dodge.
CW can have shield. CW can cast a whole rotation of FOUR spells in the time an SW casts harrowstorm.

rodrant64 · February 2015

I've given up on SW's ever being any good for PvP, but they'll still be plenty good for PvE. I'll just need a trusty Paladin or two alongside me! lol

But more SW's will be taking the life steal boosting feats and boons, for sure.

aulduron · February 2015

Warlock is just an extra, unneeded class anyway. They weren't needed before they came out, for what would they be needed now? That said: AoE damage, and other CC, is not needed in the newer dungeons/Skirmishes. A Warlock usually does more damage than a CW in LoL and SoT, as do HRs and TRs. If they follow this trend in Mod 6, nobody will need a CW here either.

zeusom · February 2015

There is nothing wrong with having more and different classes, but none should be clearly superior or inferior to another, overall. One PvP game (rhymes with Mota) has over 100 classes each with different encounters/stats and they are all pretty well balanced and well played.

Did not see the new SW encounters until now. SW will get much needed CC spell (Arms of Hader) and that is a decisive step in the right direction.

aulduron · February 2015

Which classes are clearly superior to which other classes, and in what ways?

zeusom · February 2015

aulduron wrote: »

Which classes are clearly superior to which other classes?

For PvP, every other class is superior to scourge warlock. Although 10% of the pvp population plays an SW, the class makes up less than 2% of the Top 1000 PvP Leaderboard.

aulduron wrote: »

and in what ways?

Inferior in survivability to every other class, including CW. Squishy, no dodge, and lacks control.
Inferior in control (stun/daze/prone/root/knockback) ability to every other class, including GWF GF DC.
Inferior in cast speed to every other class overall.

I am not crying or complaining, only telling the truth. The new encounter Arms of Hader is a very good and much needed encounter and is a step towards competitive balance.

aulduron · February 2015

That's just PvP. Changes to it shoul always be separate from PvE.

overdriver13 · February 2015

goldenregis wrote: »

First off, SW have survivability through more than just lifesteal, they often have 10k more HP than CWs which will only get high lighted with level 70 gear.
Second, the new Warlock feats will increase damage as well, 5% DR debuff on lesser curse, 20% more power, 10% AP for a party member? The soul puppet feat tree needs some work, but compared to the CWs feats that only buff themselves the Warlocks will net more DPS.
Thirdly, Shadow slip is exactly like the GWF sprint.

I completely agree cast times need to be reworked, lots of encounters/dailies can be interrupted too easily on a SW. But I do not agree CWs outclass SWs. They fill different abilities.
As a side note, if you use TT you can get better AoE than a CW. it doesn't work the best in places like CN, but against bosses I'd much rather have a party with 2 SWs than 2 CWs.

I think your opinion is honest, but really the idea of cw's NOT outclassing SWs is totally absurd to almost everyone who plays this game. ESPECIALLY as concerns pvp. The amazing cw dodge vs no dodge for sw in its self, puts cw in place of total superiority. Some damage reduction and cc immunity on shift as opposed to a shift that provides total immunity from both damage and cc...seriously rethink your position.

overdriver13 · February 2015

I don't intend this to be as snarky as it sounds but if this were any other game I would be shocked that they would bring out a brand new class in one mod and then not only fail to tweak it to bring it up to par with other classes, but would entirely destroy the new class the next mod.

Makes no sense to me no matter how I try to think of it.

As a loyal and devoted player and fan of Neverwinter, I have to seriously ask: Developers, why are you destroying this class? Why are you making meta changes that totally nerf this class?

I know I won't get an answer but I had to ask. I just don't get it.

Balance issue

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